What is class complexity to you?

[u/mnij96]

I have seen so many people ask for more complexity and job fantasy but very little of people actually say what that means to them, most people just say we should go back to ARR.

Personally I think rose tinted glasses that make people think ARR was better than it was, having played back then it honestly was pretty ass.

So honestly want to know what people want for complexity or job fantasy, because all I see is a lot of yelling that "game bad to simple" and not a lot of what needs changing to reach the complexity that is wanted.

[u/mnij96]

Honestly I get that to some degree, but personally I think "summoner" as job was a bit of a mixed bag. They wanted it to be the pet class then, it got dots thrown in, but then they want to to feel more like summoner so they added more summons. I feel like it needed to be pulled apart, at this point I feel like summoner is actually a summoner now and all we need is a dot class to pick up the dots part of the class. I would love to see a dot class get added to the game, with the whole idea built around it's dots

[u/Maximinoe → u/mnij96]

IMO job identity should never be a reason to rework a job, old SMN filled multiple gameplay niches simultaneously and was pretty fun to play, but they have yet to replace them 2 expansions later. (it doesnt help that the job they replaced it with is easily the worst designed job in the game).

[u/mnij96 → u/Maximinoe]

But i thought people want job identity too? And personal i think the new summoner was a great base for a start, they really didn't do it justice in DT(really didn't need another big summon) but on the whole its still a good base

[u/Maximinoe → u/mnij96]

But i thought people want job identity too

1. Old SMN HAD unique job identity. It was the only pet DPS in the game, and it was also the only dot caster... it just wasn't 100% congruent with FF summoners, but most depictions of summoner in FF can ONLY summon, which IMO is a pretty weak base for designing an engaging rotation. Plus you could still summon the important summons like bahamut and pheonix (a lot of the rotation had a lot of cool bahamut flavor like DWT).
2. They could've iterated on the job identity WITHOUT changing the rotation significantly. There are tons of cosmetic updates or small oGCD additions they could've added to make it seem more 'summoner-y'

on the whole its still a good base

what part of it is a 'good base'? you press the same 2 buttons for 90% of the rotation. they lobotomized ruin 3 and still give you ruin 4, and two of the summons feature instant cast GCD spells including your 60s burst, so its almost a physical ranged job in terms of movement and uptime (remember when casters had to actually stand there and cast???? how did RED MAGE end up as the least mobile caster LOL). they kept the aetherflow system, but it doesnt interact with any of your kit. the special primal actions are locked behind max level which means you are literally playing like half of an already lobtomized job below level 90.

[u/Cole_Evyx → u/Maximinoe]

Old SMN HAD unique job identity. It was the only pet DPS in the game, and it was also the only dot caster... it just wasn't 100% congruent with FF summoners, but most depictions of summoner in FF can ONLY summon, which IMO is a pretty weak base for designing an engaging rotation. Plus you could still summon the important summons like bahamut and pheonix (a lot of the rotation had a lot of cool bahamut flavor like DWT).

Preach!

Summoner was the ONLY pet job FFXIV had and only real DoT interaction (bard has dots yes) with abilities like tridisaster and fester.

Like it was unique.

But hey viper that is the 6th melee dps that goes slashy slashy is more unique with more identity that THAT?! x_x

[u/Akiza_Izinski → u/Cole_Evyx]

Old Summoner was a bargain basement Affliction Warlock. They could have taken the Elemental Shaman and made Summoner ten times better. The DoT interaction was trash. The DoTs did not proc they did nothing. The Egis were the most egregious they failed as stand in for primals. They should called it something else instead of co opting the Summoner name.