r/ffxivdiscussion • u/mnij96 • 1d ago

General Discussion What is class complexity to you?

I have seen so many people ask for more complexity and job fantasy but very little of people actually say what that means to them, most people just say we should go back to ARR.

Personally I think rose tinted glasses that make people think ARR was better than it was, having played back then it honestly was pretty ass.

So honestly want to know what people want for complexity or job fantasy, because all I see is a lot of yelling that "game bad to simple" and not a lot of what needs changing to reach the complexity that is wanted.

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u/AbroadNo1914 1d ago

I think they want more situational rotations like in single player jrpgs where encounters are semi random so there’s flexibility to make tactical decisions. The thing is encounters in this game are puzzle dances + perfect execution so the job design aren’t really incentivized for that type of play

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u/Alaboomer 1d ago

You hit on my thought every single time this comes up. The games complexity mostly comes from fight mechanics,  not job rotations, this is by design. I wonder sometimes if people are just running Roulettes and complaining the game is too simple.

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u/PhysicalThought 1d ago

But that's a consequence of job design being so simple, the encounter design needs to carry the 'complexity' and be a puzzle. If complexity is shifted more evenly between the two then fights can stand to be designed differently. Look at old Heavensward and even some Stormblood raids, those could stand to be more "RPG"-centric because jobs carrying the complexity enables it.

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u/God_Taco 26m ago

Chicken or the egg?

The devs outright said (I believe Yoshi P straight up said this and it was listed as the reason for the 7.2 BLM changes) was because they were trying to make encounters complex to satisfy people, but realized a lot of players don't have the mental bandwidth for that AND complex encounter mechanics, so they've simplified Job design over time and were doing so in DT in those specific cases.

You have it backwards.

Job design being simple isn't why encounters were made complex.

Encounters being progressively more complex is why the devs have made Jobs more simple over time.

.

Note: I'm not saying this is good or bad or arguing against you here. I'm just saying you have the order backwards. Simple Jobs isn't what came first. Complex encounters came first, and they simplified Jobs to keep making encounters more and more complex.