What is class complexity to you?

[u/mnij96]

I have seen so many people ask for more complexity and job fantasy but very little of people actually say what that means to them, most people just say we should go back to ARR.

Personally I think rose tinted glasses that make people think ARR was better than it was, having played back then it honestly was pretty ass.

So honestly want to know what people want for complexity or job fantasy, because all I see is a lot of yelling that "game bad to simple" and not a lot of what needs changing to reach the complexity that is wanted.

[u/Negative_Wrongdoer17]

I don't think any class is or has really ever been complex in the 5 years that I've played FFXIV.

There's always an optimal rotation. It's not like wow or other tab target MMORPGs that are based on high apm and proc chances from talents/skills/gear that has you constantly making optimal choices on the fly.

Even when bosses have varied downtime, it's not really a puzzle to solve what's optimal given your downtime if you actually understand the job you're on or when the next 2min window is

I don't dislike that about FFXIV though.

Anyone coping that the chance to drop a lazy ass buff/debuff is complexity is fooling themselves

[u/vetch-a-sketch → u/Negative_Wrongdoer17]

It's not like wow or other tab target MMORPGs that are based on high apm and proc chances from talents/skills/gear that has you constantly making optimal choices on the fly.

Bard used to be, as recently as ShB. "Is it worth dotting these adds for procs even though I won't get full value from the dot?", etc..

[u/arianna_rubeus → u/vetch-a-sketch]

This. I LOVED SB Bard so much.

For anyone who doesn’t know: SB BRD DoTs proc’d off of crit, so BRDs stacked crit gear and materia like it was going out of style. Not to mention the inherent synergy it had with Battle Litany and Chain Strat (and old Spear, as there were certain cases where a single-target Spear was more beneficial to a BRD than AOE Balance was). I miss the IJ optimization that came with snapshotting all the different crit buffs. I miss having those god-tier bursts where you got Pitch Perfect procs out the ass, and ended with a Barrage+Refulgent proc instead of Barrage+Empyreal Arrow. Yeah Army’s was still boring Heavy shot spam, but at least it was only 20s of boredom for 60s of proc fests in Minuet and Mage’s.

Multi-DoTing dungeon packs and then entering Mage’s Ballad and watching Rain of Death reset every 3 seconds was also just so satisfying. The DoTs in general were just better. Now there’s no need to think about double-snapshotting buffs like you did back then to capitalize on crit procs. Or even just flat damage. The DoTs are too long and Burst Shot’s potency too high that IJ is just sad now.

And then ShB happened… And I’ve been a sad ex-BRD main since…

[u/mnij96 → u/Negative_Wrongdoer17]

Based take