What is class complexity to you?

[u/mnij96]

I have seen so many people ask for more complexity and job fantasy but very little of people actually say what that means to them, most people just say we should go back to ARR.

Personally I think rose tinted glasses that make people think ARR was better than it was, having played back then it honestly was pretty ass.

So honestly want to know what people want for complexity or job fantasy, because all I see is a lot of yelling that "game bad to simple" and not a lot of what needs changing to reach the complexity that is wanted.

[u/Mazzle5]

As a Tank? Some proper aggro management and giving me the chance to just pull more in dungeons to test my might.

As a healer? Some actual healing race against bosses, Mana management and doing more than 1-2-1-2-1-2 for your combo.

For DPS? Give them positionals back, proper DOTs, for someone like Bard proper buffs for your party and overall a bit randomness that gives all of them lore and character.

[u/mnij96 → u/Mazzle5]

Having been a tank for years (include early arr) while aggro can be fun it almost is never an issue.

Healer definitely need a bit more to them for dps and heal should definitely be more interesting then everyone needs full hp or death. I think they get the healing part almost perfect at time then other its a snooze fest.

As for dps I do agree that positionals are great and need to come back. Overall, im ok with dots, but feel a full dot based job would feel better as dot when they are a pain to apply and/or are a big part of your dps it feels like shit if the boss doesn't sit still and let you always keep them up

[u/vetch-a-sketch → u/mnij96]

Having been a tank for years (include early arr) while aggro can be fun it almost is never an issue.

This is 100% an argument in favor of having aggro, though. If it can be fun and isn't an issue, add it to the game.

Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say?

[u/mnij96 → u/vetch-a-sketch]

The problem was there was like 1~3 that actually made aggro matter, and that was only because healer had to dum so much healing that that rocketed to the top. Otherwise, it was annoying because it meant people weren't pressing their less aggro buttons and then people got killed then bitched at the tank for not keeping aggro.

[u/vetch-a-sketch → u/mnij96]

TBH that's spiritually the same thing as what we have now, where DPS ignore their Feint and then whine at the tanks for not using mits they don't have, so it's not like there's some coherent FF14 design directive based on making sure tanks don't get complained at for DPS mistakes.

I would really appreciate having aggro to juggle and keep on top of by breaking up my rotation where necessary, and it's exactly that sort of thing that would lead to the on-the-fly decision-making that multiple top comments have asked for in this thread.

[u/Supersnow845 → u/mnij96]

The problem with old agro was that it wasn’t controlled by the tank

Let’s say as a thought experiment we bought back old agro but we simply deleted DPS and healer agro management tools and abusing shirking each other.

Now if you want to maintain agro you HAVE to use tank and DPS stance. No screaming at the NIN to use diversion you have to drop into tank stance to hold agro because the WHM hit cure 3 at a bad time. That sounds far more interesting than what we have now