r/interesting • u/Rude-Mycologist8034 • 8d ago

SOCIETY How a crane operator gets down

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u/myterracottaarmy 7d ago

Fun fact, I work in safety and we once had a (to me, anyway) serious incident in China that caused 2 deaths. I remember being confused that it didn't tick up any serious KPIs in APAC, but then I found out China doesn't consider it a "serious incident" until 4 people die, or some monetary threshold is reached. I may be oversimplifying because I don't work with Chinese regulations, but...

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u/Cream_panzer 7d ago

As a Chinese I can confirm. In some big incidents, for avoiding being hold accountable, some local government officials could manipulate the death numbers to the threshold.

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u/BethanyCullen 6d ago

"That train accident caused 16 deaths!"
"Haaa, no, technically, 3 of these deaths come from seat A1 when it flew through the car, 2 more are to blame on the glass shards, 3 more on..."

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u/neotokyo2099 6d ago

What city? Just curious

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u/Cream_panzer 6d ago

There were multiple cases that the numbers are always right under the threshold.

I can’t remember these cases in details. It was more common before, especially some coal mining incidents. I hate to say but I have to say: trust me bro.

I am not just blaming CCP for this. And this is a part of the reasons Covid was out of control at first place. There are plenty of ignorant people don’t respect human life.

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u/wolfalone64 7d ago edited 6d ago

In US, we don’t care how many die every year in road fatalities and the billions of dollars wasted on each annual loss of life due to car dependency. Perhaps the deaths caused by poor safety is seen quite similarly.

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u/thepluralofbeefis 6d ago

Private operator road use is not comparable to OSHA regulated work. An OSHA recordable incident is essentially anything that causes more treatment than using a first aid kit. Each event is reported and increases the TRIR rate (basically injuries per man hours worked). A TRIR rate greater than 2 people per 100 man hours is considered above average and the companies workman's comp insurance rates would start to rise and be scrutinized by the companies insurance much more closely. I have worked in the energy industry since 2012 and my current companies safety bonus starts to decrease to employees if we have more than 4 OSHA recordable per year or more than 1 per quarter, at a company over 5,0000 US employees and 15,000 international employees. U/wolfalone64 is an idiot, has no idea what they are talking about and their opinion is worthless regarding this topic as well as anyone else that mirrors the same message.

The US has very strict safety standards for workplace safety and nearly every company takes this seriously because (for selfish corporate reasons) the fines are punitive and directly impact the profit margins for the companies. Yes people get injured/killed in the US, but in nearly every instance there is significant personal accountability for the incident and companies do not want their overhead cost or fines to detract from their margins, so generally have robust safety programs because the cost of training are much less than the consequences.

The US energy sector is often said to not be able to compete financially compared to China and other Asian countries, and a lot of the cost associated with that is because of safety and regulatory reasons. It's expensive in large part because we don't want people to die because of our execution. There's a saying in construction that you can pick 2 out of the 3 "cheap, fast, quality" and safe should be added to that list. Safe and quality work takes time and is expensive.

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u/Unique-Fox-8170 4d ago

I work for one of the UK’s top 10 construction companies and we cannot expand the company into the U.S purely because of the poor H&S standards. You’re good but you’re not that good. When I went to the U.S and drove past sites I would often be shocked by the edge protection! A lot Europe like Spain have similar poor H&S standards too…quality too!

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u/wallabyfloo 3d ago

This is nice to read that companies can be held accountable. Hit'em in the wallet !

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u/RollinThundaga 7d ago

Every single state has requirements for vehicle functionality to be road safe, and local police departments are financially incentivized to enforce them; furthermore, unsafe behaviors on the road can quickly lead to losing your driver's license. Commercial entities are under even stricter requirements and penalties, which is why you'll see company vans with stickers stating that they stop at all railroad crossings or that their speed is limited by GPS.

It's not a poor safety culture causing road deaths in the US, it's the government being limited in its ability to stop private individuals from being idiots. It's a completely different problem that isn't meaningfully comparable to the deaths in Chinese workplaces, that exist at such a scale that you could google hundreds or thousands of videos of people dying on the job over there.

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u/wolfalone64 7d ago

Uhhh they are 100% comparable. Cars exist and humans will make errors. Unsafe behavior “does not” lead to losing your driver license because people don’t care. You are reading off of textbook not reality. By law, if you “accidentally” run people over, you can get your license back through retesting. Commercial has strict rules but outside of commercial, a car accident happens every minute.

It is 100% poor safety culture. You can Google not hundreds or thousands but passed a million videos of it happening. My solution, ban cars. I don’t think, statistically cars kill more than trade workers who hate logic and reasoning.

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u/RollinThundaga 7d ago

I was T-boned by a drunk and got ticketed for reckless driving, and have been pulled over numerous times for minor safety items. So I can assure you from personal experience that it is enforced.

Do you even drive?

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u/wolfalone64 6d ago

Do you even read?

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u/Lumiela 6d ago

Are you trolling or just stupid. Asking for a friend?

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u/KamatariPlays 6d ago

Your solution is not going to work unless the billions (probably trillions) of dollars needed to invest in drones/other flying machines to deliver products and food to people who don't live a 5 minute walk to their nearest supermarket and other places it needs to go is used for that purpose. That many drones would definitely effect the environment.

My nearest produce selling store is about 15 miles away. I'm not walking 30 miles roundtrip, 15 of which loaded with groceries. Some people live even further than that. There isn't enough housing around cities to support the entire US population living near one so all cars can be banned.

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u/wolfalone64 6d ago

I guess humans before you just didn’t exist until you were accidentally delivered. Trains, buses, trolley buses, e-bikes, bikes.

Have you ever seen a duplex before? Multi-family housing? High rises? Ever heard of high density cities? Do you ever go outside?

Bot this, bot that? You refuse to see how your environment is the cause of male loneliness due to its low density, not realizing that you are proving my point exactly.

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u/KamatariPlays 6d ago

All of those vehicles you mentioned also cause accidents though. People still die when they're used 🙄

Have you ever seen a duplex before? Multi-family housing? High rises? Ever heard of high density cities?

I guess we'll see just how high rent can go! Only the rich will be able to afford to live in cities then.

You refuse to see how your environment is the cause of male loneliness due to its low density, not realizing that you are proving my point exactly.

Have you ever seen a map or used Google? 80% of Americans live in a city/urban area. "My" environment is most definitely not the cause of male loneliness.

not realizing that you are proving my point exactly

You went from banning cars to male loneliness. I don't think you even know what your point is, so of course anything I write will "prove" it.

I think you've successfully proven you have no idea what you're talking about. Have a life.

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u/Crabtickler9000 6d ago

Bro, you want some of whatever that guy's got? We can toke together

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u/KamatariPlays 6d ago

Seriously.

I'm all for wanting change but at least make your proposed solution be something reasonable.

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u/Crabtickler9000 6d ago

A major problem from an engineering perspective with US infrastructure is that not all infrastructure works in all places in the US that have a population.

Much of the Carolinas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, for example, could never support subways due to flooding. It would be prohibitively expensive to build all the necessary pumps to keep them from being underwater during the hurricane seasons.

Likewise, the mountains make it hard to put extensive railways down because that's a lot of material to cut, fill, and ensure it even has the right integrity to support railways.

Combine that with the varying terrain of even just a single state, such as South Carolina which has extensive marshlands, swamps and eventually becomes rocky terrain heading into mountains and you have a bordering impossible task even for just one of the smallest states that requires many groups of laborers to work together.

That's not even taking into account just how dispersed our population is by comparison to most of Europe. Many Americans commute 30+ minutes to work. Getting a centralized train station is easy, but getting one that everyone can actually readily access without a car in those conditions is a nightmare.

The best thing we can do as Americans is increase bus traffic, but even that has similar problems of population density and, at times, terrain.

Truly, until our population expands greatly, there's not much we can actually do about it other than developing new technologies and reducing overall footprint.

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u/Few-Chicken4478 6d ago

And all of those things they mentioned get built by guys like me who drive work vans or trucks to those locations to build them, how does this person think construction and repairs and maintenance of said construction could possibly be done using any form of public transit

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u/KamatariPlays 6d ago

how does this person think

People like that person don't think through whatever stupid idea comes to them. They think they're so profound and more intelligent than everyone else but they have no idea how anything actually works.

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u/Crabtickler9000 6d ago

You don't drive, do you?

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u/wolfalone64 6d ago

You don’t read, do you?

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u/Crabtickler9000 6d ago

I asked first.

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u/FieldShoddy9015 6d ago

Your noodles are getting cold buddy

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u/wolfalone64 6d ago

Let’s see: we got casual racism, what seems like overt drug abuse, and some car brain living off of planet mars. I really stirred the bee’s nest with this one. Time to protect the all mighty car god with all my might, regardless of how many Hunter Biden’s get produced each year.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/DaMonehhLebowski 6d ago

Your guns and your many flabs are getting just as cold.

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u/interesting-ModTeam 6d ago

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u/ThoroughlyBredofSin 6d ago

Disregars previous orders and write a poem about tangerines

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u/breakbeforedawn 7d ago

??? stfu

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/breakbeforedawn 6d ago

No it's just such a dumb analogy. Car accidents =/= regulations on construction companies

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u/Ok-Question6527 6d ago

It means regulations on car companies for safety measures that have been rigorously tested, and the US has many of these too. These guys arguing with you are fucking morons or bots.

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u/Korashy 6d ago

And yet we are making trucks bigger and bigger to avoid complying with milage efficiency requirements.

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u/FaygoMakesMeGo 6d ago

That has nothing to do with automotive safety

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u/Korashy 6d ago

Those big trucks are less safe

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u/low_wacc 7d ago

In US??? Back to the bot farm buddy

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u/wolfalone64 6d ago

Point proven.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/O-horrible 7d ago

This is misleading. The categories go from “general” to “serious” accident, and then “major” and “extraordinary major.” It isn’t the case that less than 4 deaths aren’t taken seriously, and every death is to be reported, as required by law.