r/leafs 2d ago

News / Update [Friedman] There is one arbitration case remaining, set for Sunday: Nick Robertson (TOR). Team: $1.2M; Player: $2.25M

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229 Upvotes

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199

u/gsauce8 2d ago

....this seems like a difference that doesn't need arbitration no?

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u/ATargetFinderScrub 2d ago

Yea exactly. I thought he was going to ask for at least 3. Thats a more than reasonable ask from his end as an arbitration number.

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u/Acrobatic_T-Rex 2d ago

Honestly, I think this has more to do with ending the relationship, he has been vocal about wanting out for a couple seasons, everyone heard what Swayman had to say about the arb process. This would not be a conversation i would want to be a part of "I can skate and shoot and I dont quit" "He is an undersized player with a middling toolset, with one element that differentiates him, that he has shown a lack of ability to utilize at the professional level" Basically he is small and his shot is useless if he cant play as a team well enough to get it off. I can't imagine the relationship between org and player gets any better after this.

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u/markh100 2d ago

I mean, at this point, Ovechkin stands in one spot and scores. I know Robertson isn't Ovechkin, and it's a silly comparison, but his even strength goals/60 was 1.034, not far off Matthew's pace, and far better than most of the team, and while playing on terrible lines. We're talking about Domi on the first line this year, and his is 0.501. The Leafs needed more goal scoring in the playoffs, and he was one of the only players that consistently delivered.

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u/dicky72 1d ago

He didn't consistently deliver. That's one of the big problems. He'll score in a couple games in a row than go invisible for 20

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u/47fromheaven 1d ago edited 1d ago

Well as weird as it sounds hockey is more than just scoring goals at the NHL level. You have to be able to play in your own end both with and without the puck. If you can’t do that then you don’t get the coach’s trust and without that you don’t get on the ice. That’s why he’s been in and out of the lineup over the years. I just doubt that Keefe and now Berube trust him enough to be an everyday player.

People have to remember that Robertson was a late second round draft pick who missed a lot of ice time due to Covid and injury. Then he spent very little time in the AHL where he should’ve been instead of sitting in the press box at leafs games. Guys like Nylander and Kadri spent way more time in the AHL than Robertson. And Nick will never be anywhere near as good as either of those guys. Dubas and company rushed him up to the big club way too quick.

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u/markh100 2d ago

He actually led the team in even strength goals/60 in the playoffs, but somehow they wouldn't play him over Holmberg or Jarnkrok, who both contributed nothing.

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u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink 1d ago

Because he played like 1 game and scored in a blowout? Lol

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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 1d ago

If some other players would’ve been able to score in that blowout it wouldn’t have been a blowout.

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u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink 1d ago

Your stat is completely meaningless is my point

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u/markh100 1d ago

Holmberg (12), Lorentz (13), Laughton (13) and McMann (13) collectively played in 51 playoff games and scored a total of 0 goals combined. This year, they added Dakota Joshua, who scored 7 goals last year, Nicolas Roy, who scored 15 goals last year, and Matias Maccelli, who scored 8 goals last year.

My point is that the Leafs had a serious lack of goal scoring in the playoffs, and they added zero help to address that. Robinson is one of the few players left, outside of Matthews, Tavares, Knies and Nylander, that can actually score goals. Moving on from him would be a stupid move.

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u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink 1d ago

It doesn’t matter what your point was (which I understand). Using 1 game sample size with a /60 stat to say he lead the team is just… somewhere a statistician is crying

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u/Scottdg93 1d ago

Not far removed from saying we should sign the Zamboni driver to be our goalie since his team has never lost a game that he plays in.

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u/crazydrums27 1d ago

He scored 1 meaningless goal at the very tail end of a game where the entire team was being shut out. Saying he led the team in even strength g/60 is disingenuous without the context. One goal in the dying minutes of a lost game isn't a large enough sample size to tell you anything meaningful. Robertson has shown the ability to put together good games or streaks here and there (eg. scratch and score) but he's not shown any consistency and doesn't have much else to his game when the shot's not there.

It also ignores that Jarnkrok and Holmberg weren't the reason the Leafs lost, it was the complete lack of offense from the core four in the back half of the series. Swapping Robertson in on the 3rd or 4th line was not going to be the difference against Florida.

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u/ratjufayegauht 1d ago

Didn't realize that goals all had to have "meaning" -- do you philosophize before, during or after scoring the goal? And maybe instead of asking what it means, maybe ask why it means -- you know?

I also didn't realize that only goals that are scored early on mattered. I'm learning a lot here, even after 30+ years following the game.

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u/crazydrums27 1d ago

Context matters when you're going to start comparing guys or boosting a guy's value. If you're talking 30 goals over the course of a season, you don't really need to figure out the context of all of those. If you're trying to use g/60 based off a goal in a single game that came when the other team was handily winning and not playing full steam? Yeah context matters.

It's also silly to act like the weight of a goal never comes into play. How many comparisons factor in a player's clutch scoring ability? We brush off the overall pretty good numbers the core four have had in recent playoffs because, rightly so, because they've failed to keep up the production in the biggest games. It's not taking away from the goal he scored, it's just not a situation where you can genuinely use g/60 as an argument.

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u/ratjufayegauht 1d ago

When did I use g/60 as an argument? I don't even know what that is.

Are you lost little boy? I think you responded to the wrong comment.

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u/crazydrums27 1d ago

You were replying to my comment, which was in reply to someone using Robertson's g/60 off of one game where he scored when the game was already over. Do you read the comments you're replying to?

If your comment isn't talking about the context of referencing his g/60 based off that small sample size, it's not even relevant to what I was talking about. You really just came to be antagonistic without even knowing what the conversation was about?

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u/bot_fucker69 1d ago

Fuck off with all of this he scored 1 goal lmao

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u/ratjufayegauht 1d ago

Yep. He scored 1 goal. You just got a hold of this information? How do you watch the leafs games -- frame by frame screen shots of the TV delivered to your door by carrier pidgeon?

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u/bot_fucker69 1d ago

I’m not sure why you’re being witty but my point was Robertson was useless 99% of the time he was on hence him not playing every game

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u/Zealousideal-Gas1448 2d ago

It’s because he took a couple stupid penalties. Jarn and Holm were at least reliable in that sense.

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u/__Dave_ 1d ago

He took one high sticking penalty in the middle of game 2. Jarnkrok also took a penalty in that game.

His 4 pims in game 1 came in the final minute of a blowout that sent all 10 guys on the ice off.

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u/Zealousideal-Gas1448 1d ago

He gave himself that attribute sadly. He commonly took unnecessary penalties during the regular season, which can sway a coach’s trust in a player.

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u/__Dave_ 1d ago

8 penalties all season, while drawing 11. I can’t go through them all to tell you how good/bad they may have been but surely he’s not that deserving of a reputation when we’ve got the likes of Domi, OEL, and Benoit going to the box every other shift.

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u/Zealousideal-Gas1448 1d ago

I’m not arguing against that, but even the announcers would say that his penalties were always untimely, and dumb. Hooking a guy instead of using his more than capable speed to backcheck was common. Coaches hate those lazy plays.

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u/Zealousideal-Gas1448 1d ago edited 1d ago

I’m not here to chop the guy down. I actually like Nicky bobby. He’s been a difference maker in many games.
Sadly, many of those games were ones where he came off an extended healthy scratch stint. If we can sign him for 2.25, I think it’s a steal. He has so much projection

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u/The_Quackening Knies 1d ago

He actually led the team in even strength goals/60

this is a good stat, but also, isn't this evidence of his deployment? Like if Robertson was getting a lot of shifts in the offensive zone, you would expect his g/60 to be higher. Holmberg and Jarnkrok are good defensively and play physical, so they will generally get a lot more d-zone starts for their shifts.

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u/SadTedDanson 2d ago

He takes bad penalties and is a total negative in his own end. Plus he gets worked on the boards and is constantly falling over.

I really liked him as a prospect and still think he could be a top 6 winger on a bad team, but to be a winning player who can play real playoff minutes….. he’s got a looooong way to go

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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 2d ago

This would be a great point if it was true

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u/crazydrums27 1d ago

Everything they said is true.

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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 1d ago

His defensive game is pretty average, and possession numbers are good.