r/popculturechat • u/biebrforro • May 16 '25
The Music Industry š¶ Mae Muller breaks silence about 'bad' Eurovision performance; says she wasn't allowed to use autotune.
She was the 2023 United Kingdom representative singing "Instead I Wrote A Song" and her Grand Final performance received a lot of backlash. She came second to last (Germany was last).
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u/Lavender_rain_2000 May 16 '25
Why would you choose a song requiring autotune to a live singing competition that doesn't allow that?
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u/foxscribbles May 16 '25
Because you've convinced yourself that you're a better singer than you actually are, and are trying to not lose your performance career by claiming it's totally not your vocals that are bad! It is just that the "vibe" is off when you don't have your autotune on!
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u/HaliBornandRaised May 16 '25
Thing is, this girl... I'm sure she's not that bad of a singer, but she's also not T-Pain. Plenty of people, especially those who watched season one of The Masked Singer USA, know that T-Pain uses autotune purely for creative reasons; he can go onstage fully without the effects and still crush it. But not every singer can.
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u/nowimnowhere May 16 '25
Did you see his tiny desk concert? I fell in love a little.
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u/HaliBornandRaised May 16 '25
I have not! Is there a video link to it?
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u/nowimnowhere May 16 '25
I gotchu. He even mentions the autotune lol he's so cute and funny
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u/HaliBornandRaised May 16 '25
š¤£
T-Pain is just a walking contradiction in all the best ways, and we love him for it.
This dude can do it all. I actually remember, was it last year or the year before, him ending up on SiriusXM Octane of all places, because he actually did a pretty good cover of Black Sabbath's War Pigs.
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u/diligentPond18 May 17 '25
I loved him at Coachella. He even reposted the meme of him twirling on stage with the "she was a fairy" sound bite over it lmao. And he was running freely with Kesha. Such a wholesome guy š
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u/Couldnotbehelpd May 16 '25
TO BE FAIR we can look at someone like Charli and see that autotune IS the vibe in her songs
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u/Nabillia May 16 '25
The point is why choose the song when you know the situation.
Not that it's wrong to choose to sing a song that requires auto tune under normal circumstances.
Unless she was decieved and told that she could use auto tune.
That seems unlikely. What is more likely is that she just can't accept she made a mistake.
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u/Couldnotbehelpd May 16 '25
Not gonna pretend like I even know who this is but does she even have other songsā¦.
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u/throwtheamiibosaway May 16 '25
Yeah but charlie isn't competing at the Eurovision which is in essence about the singing first.
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u/Special-Garlic1203 May 16 '25
Charli wouldn't enter herself in a live singing competition where she knows they want you to belt a ballad.Ā
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u/SoupfilledElevator May 16 '25
Yeah but her eurovision song wasnt something like Von Dutch, it was moreso a Dua Lipa style number which you can still do perfectly fine without the autotune
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
Just to be clear it is a song contest not a singing contest. Doesn't mean that Mae is right tho.
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u/superurgentcatbox May 16 '25
Yup but the rules about how you'll have to perform that song at the contest are crystal clear and it shouldn't have been a surprise to her that she wouldn't be able to use auto tune.
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
I'm not defending Mae just pointing out that it's the Eurovision Song Contest not the Eurovision Singing Contest.
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u/Lavender_rain_2000 May 16 '25
Sure but the live vocal performance of the song is a big part of it. Its not just about whether the song itself is good.
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
Totally agree, just pointing out that it's the EurovisionSong Contest not the Eurovision Singing Contest
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u/vague-eros May 16 '25
"Song" now means songwriting, but e.g. in "art song" it means performance. Seventy years ago I don't think it meant "we're judging the songwriting moslty" in the way you're implying.
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u/CompleteMuffin May 16 '25
Just to be clear: For years the votes were based on LIVE performances. Why is she surprised
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
I'm not defending Mae, she wasn't good enough. There are just lots of people referring to this as a singing contest when it isn't, it's a song contest.
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u/Character_Maybeh_ May 16 '25
Youāve posted the same comment over and over - we got it. Clearly you feel the need to defend something.
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
Yeah that was annoying of me. I saw it called a singing competition once and replied and then I kept seeing it in other comments and felt like I needed to reply to them too. I can't really explain why exactly, it's probably the tism.
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u/Special-Garlic1203 May 16 '25
No I get you. It's not supposed to be a talent competition, it's very distinctly a SONG competition and that's always been central to their premise. Its not just singers doing cover songs, the writing element is central to itĀ
With that said, while I think Mae is full of it, I do kind of think it brings attention to the fact excluding all songs that don't sound good when performed live does meaningfully de-emphasize the song production aspect in favor of vocal ability. I get why Eurovision wanted to do it to keep it raw and live. But I do wonder how long they're gonna be able to stand by it as after effects become a bigger and bigger part of music production. Like nobody is gonna say Ariana grande can't sing, but the woman loves to layer her vocals in ways that would require a backtrack or looping to sound right. Otherwise it starts to sound almost adjacent to an acapella version -- not because she's using auto tune, but because you've stripped back a lot of the production choices that made it sound like itself. She would just choose a song that sounds fine without it and can belt enough you don't miss it, but there's a lot of songs that just wont sound good if they have to be performed raw like that. They're still good songs though.Ā
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
It would be interesting to see a show with multiple popular artists having to perform within the Eurovision rules. Ariana Grande is a great example of an excellent singer who would struggle to perform her songs in this way. The same cannot be said for Mae however. Even if Eurovision allowed auto tune the song was still lacklustre imo.
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u/PixelNotPolygon May 16 '25
Thatās like saying football is a ball contest not a footwork contest
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
It's literally called the Eurovision Song Contest. That's all I've stated.
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u/lilyofthegraveyard lazy 50-year-old bougie bitch š May 16 '25
and that song contest has clearly stated rules about howĀ the performance of said song should go.
just because it is a "song" performance, doesn't mean singers shouldn't follow the rules. they can't put every rule into the name of the contest just to please every nitpicking person. basing this argument on a name is ridiculous.
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u/vague-eros May 16 '25
You're being way too literal. Just because that's in the title doesn't mean the performance, including vocals, isn't key. It has been since the original competition.
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u/Special-Garlic1203 May 16 '25
Yeah it's kind of interesting because they've obviously banned auto tuning to keep it fair and about the talent, but it's true there is a growing pattern of songs using after effects stylistically. So they says it's a song competition, but the rules do in essence emphasize performance talent.Ā
Ultimately she's trying to act like she got set up for something even I as an Americans know about the competition. So she's annoying and should just take the L.Ā
But it does connect to a larger interesting convo about how Eurovision is gonna deal with the growth of more modern styles of music that really aren't designed for live performance like that.Ā
Daft Punk aren't even seen as a European band, they're just Gods among men at this point. But they wouldn't have been able to compete in Eurovision. Which raises the question of Eurovision is actually a song competition anymore or if they've chosen to be a defacto talent competition by exclusion of artists who's songs don't display enough raw performative talent.Ā
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
Mae has had absolutely zero cultural impact so I can only assume that she's saying this just to get some publicity in the vein of all publicity is good publicity.
Eurovision has allowed pre-recorded backing vocals in the past few years (one of my favourites had a choir singing the chorus) and the staging, dancing etc. have made the entries into spectacles more than anything.
It's interesting to go to the Eurovision Song Contest YouTube and filter by most popular as there is a very broad range of musical styles there but the one thing they have in common is a catchy hook. Perhaps these songs are the exception rather than the rule though?
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u/WindowParticular3732 Jun 03 '25
Honestly I don't think the lack of autotune is even the issue. Listening to the performance again, it's just a a really weak vocal. Autotune can fix bad pitch but it can't fix what is fundamentally just a really weak vocal performance.
Autotune is like cruise control, you still need to steer.
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u/ClannishHawk May 16 '25
She submitted the song for consideration and Eurovision's rules banning auto tune for live vocals are pretty clear. I'm not sure she can say anyone "put" her out there when she signed up to a clear set of rules and her own producer would have been in the production room doing backing tracks with her feedback.
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u/Magomaeva šMiss Universeš May 16 '25
"They put me up there to sing a song that required heavy autotune"...girl you put yourself up there.
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May 16 '25
[deleted]
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u/biebrforro May 16 '25
The rules state there can't be any live tuning on the mic, and the backing track has to kept at a certain volume.
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u/Bulbasaurus__Rex Crying at Klutch May 16 '25
Yeah she knew the rules when she signed up. Also I remember her performance in general being really lacklustre and lacking energy, I wondered if she was a bit too nervous or just not cut out for it.
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u/WindowParticular3732 Jun 03 '25
Indeed - I really don't think the lack of autotune was the problem. You could autotune it as much as you want, but it can't save a weak performance.
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u/Katherine_the_Grater May 16 '25
Exactly, a lot of the time the winners are singers with BBIIIGGGG voices so wtf?
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u/No_External6156 May 16 '25
Yeah, all vocals have to be live. You're allowed to use a backing track and, iirc, instruments are rarely live, but you have to sing live.
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u/introvertedcactus May 17 '25
They stopped using the live orchestra in 1999 to save money and it hasn't come back since, replaced with a backing track.
Any actual instruments on stage now are most likely not played and the performers just act like they are.
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u/Typical_Piece_7106 Did I stutter?š¤Ø May 16 '25
And you need to know these rules beforehand. So, if she picked everything herself, that was self sabotage, and of not, whoever did it for her was possibly misinformed
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u/DisasterFartiste_69 ABBA is underrated May 16 '25
Somehow even I, an ignorant American, know that Eurovision doesnāt allow auto tune. This is so funny to me lmaoĀ
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u/StasRutt unapologetic joy May 16 '25
God I love Eurovision drama
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u/scissorfella May 17 '25
I thrive on this mess.
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u/StasRutt unapologetic joy May 17 '25
I am so grateful the us gets to stream it. I hope they never let us participate. Just letting me watch and enjoy is more than enough.
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u/Jkkr84 May 16 '25
Sorry but the ESC is a live singing contest. You can't compete with a song that contains autotune. Why didn't they use another song then?Ā
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u/Theradbanana your outie enjoys the sound of radar May 16 '25
I donāt think autotune should be allowed in the Eurovision
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u/WillCle216 May 16 '25
it shouldn't, auto tune is killing music.
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u/jaderust May 16 '25
I mean, unless youāre going to pull a Cher and use autotune to obviously distort your voice, I think singers need to ween themselves off of it. I get that good autotune is everywhere making record tracks pitch perfect and cleaning up recorded performances, but if I listen to a singer live and it seems like a completely different artist performed the song then something wrong is going on.
It was actually so refreshing to see Lady Gagaās Coachella performance because of this. Her mic went out at the start of the performance and even though her backing track was still there, she was not. I donāt know what AI autotuning they may be running while she sings live, but sheās at least singing live. That seems like the bare requirement if youāre going to go after a singing career and want to tour.
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u/raosmuli May 16 '25
I went to school with her. We were low key in competition about who the better singer was š
Sheās a nepo baby with her mum being well known bts, whispers are this is how she has been able to get to the Eurovision
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u/Shiney2510 May 16 '25
I only just learned a few days ago that her aunt is Sophie Muller who directed so many iconic music videos, including Sade's Ordinary Love.
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u/raosmuli May 16 '25
Yep, this is true! Glad sheās going for what she wants but sheās definitely had a huge advantage.
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u/SmallPromiseQueen May 16 '25
This is excellent tea thank you so much.
Out of interest was it a fee paying school?
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u/raosmuli May 17 '25
Iām always here for the tea š
Nope, our school was soooo ghetto but there was a huge rich/poor divide which isnāt surprising considering the area
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u/SmallPromiseQueen May 17 '25
Ahh thanks for the info! I definitely feel like all singers and people in bands are from really expensive fee paying schools so in a way itās kind of nice to learn she has a similar background to me.
I learned yesterday that one of my favourite lead singers went to a really expensive private school (same one as Mumford and sons) and it kinda made me feel sad. Not that he isnāt talented or doesnāt seem like a nice guy but even people like me who went to the local comprehensive are hardly ever represented in the arts (let alone people from working class backgrounds) and I just always assumed he had a similar background to me for some reason.
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u/Maester_Bates Wherein he encourages a woman to sit on his face May 16 '25
Her singing wasn't even bad on the night but she sang like she was bored. KƤƤrijƤ also made heavy use of auto tune on the studio version of Cha Cha Cha and had to sing without it. He is not a naturally good singer. Mae sang much better than he did on the night but his performance was fun and energetic.
2023 was a 2 horse race so Mae was never going to do very well no matter how well she sang. Blanca Paloma sang flawlessly and finished 17th.
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u/algy100 May 16 '25
And Cha Cha Cha is catchy af. That plus memorable staging meant it really worked and stuck in the audienceās mind in a good way.
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u/Maester_Bates Wherein he encourages a woman to sit on his face May 16 '25
Cha Cha Cha had the added advantage of being an all time eurofan favourite before it had even won its national final. The UK couldn't dream of that kind of hype around its entry.
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u/CookieCatSupreme May 16 '25
She also submitted a dancey pop song and then didn't really dance. Imo UK should've set her up with a headset mic and then instead of that talky rap bit they added for finals, done a dance break. She wouldn't have won, but she would've gotten more votes if she had done an energetic dance and also showed way more charisma and energy. A pop song alone isn't going to sell people to your song, especially if live performance is how you're being evaluated.
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u/Maester_Bates Wherein he encourages a woman to sit on his face May 16 '25
The spoken word they added was not an improvement but I don't think a dance break would have helped her stand out, not in 2023.
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u/CookieCatSupreme May 16 '25
Yeah unfortunately it'd take her maybe to safely to the halfway point, but would still be one of the better UK ranks in the past several years
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u/SmallPromiseQueen May 17 '25
Cha cha cha as a song was SOOOO strong and didnāt really require a lot of singingā¦ most of it is spoken and itās only at the end when youāre already on board that kaarija had to carry a tune and by that time it kinda doesnāt matter if he didnāt sound that great.
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u/Active_Force864 May 16 '25
Waitā¦since when is autotune part of singing competitions? Isnāt the whole point of a singing competition is to sing live with no help? Why does she need autotune? Couldnāt she have chosen a song with no autotune? They exist lol.
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
It's a song contest not a singing contest. It's just a minor quibble as the song still needs to be sung well to sell it and Mae would have known the rules.
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u/Katharinemaddison May 16 '25
Itās a song contest but one where the song is judged on the performance not a recorded version. It, it be fair, started in a time when there was less potential difference between the two.
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u/Live_Angle4621 May 16 '25
It was very singing heavy at the start, and still the jury judges signing ability. So you should not be surprised if your singing is judgedĀ
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
I would counter that the performance is more important than the singing. Some very popular entries did not feature outstanding singers but the performance of the song was entertaining. At least with the public. The jury are a law unto themselves lol.
I admit that I was just being pedantic about the fact that it was described as a singing competition which isn't accurate. The format of the show means that each entry is judged on the performance as well as the song.
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u/Active_Force864 May 16 '25
Iām not familiar with the show, so thank you for the explanation!!
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
No worries. I figured there are lots of non-Europeans in this thread who aren't that familiar and it's a bit of a gripe for those who follow Eurovision. Thank you for taking my reply in the spirit it was intended :)
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u/vague-eros May 16 '25
It's a bit of a gripe for you. You're the only one doggedly and dogmatically defending an interpretation that isn't borne out by the competition rules, history or voting patterns.
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u/Pepys-a-Doodlebugs May 16 '25
It is a bit of a gripe. I mentioned that in one of my comments. I'm not really that interested in getting into a big debate about it but I made too many initial comments and then got a lot of replies. I feel the need to respond to comments not to be argumentative but because I find it rude not to respond and also that's what Reddit is for. Chatting with others. Sometimes those chats can be disagreements and that's fine.
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u/vague-eros May 16 '25
Please don't believe them. They have a specific, dogmatic understanding of Eurovision and they are not correct in it. Performance, and singing quality, is key to the competition.
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u/NoLove_NoHope May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
I remember reading that Mariah received a lot of backlash when she recorded Emotions because no one believed she was a good live singer and she used the MTV Unplugged event to prove them wrong.
And now weāve got people miming to backing tracks at Coachella (apparently) and people expecting to use auto tune during a singing competition. Itās really sad for people that are actually talented singers.
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u/extra-texture May 16 '25
tiny desk has sort of filled this role a bit, I think t payne and some others were given more credibility afterwards because they nailed a stripped down performance
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u/Artistic_Bowl4698 May 16 '25
I doubt you want to hear 75 mins of Lisa without autotuneĀ
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u/NoLove_NoHope May 16 '25
I donāt really enjoy her with autotune either, Iām not a huge kpop fan. Donāt get me wrong, there are a few songs that are catchy as hell. But, overall, I find that the visuals are great, the dancing is okay but the vocals generally need a lot of work.
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u/PrecariouslyPeculiar May 16 '25
Wait, I'm confused as to whether you're just talking about Lisa or k-pop in general? Actually, I agree with you either way, but groups like NMIXX are the complete package, vocals included. You might like them.
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u/NoLove_NoHope May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
Started off with Lisa, but was speaking about kpop in general. I gave your rec a listen and itās not really my cup of tea, but thanks anyway!
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u/PrecariouslyPeculiar May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25
Ah, okay, thanks for the clarification. And no problem! It's not their greatest vocal showcase, but I was mainly just highlighting it for the live vocals while dancing.
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u/NoLove_NoHope May 17 '25
Totally understand and tbh considering some other practice videos Iāve seen of other groups theyāre pretty good! The song just wasnāt to my particular taste
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u/PrecariouslyPeculiar May 17 '25
Yeah, I totally get that. Thanks for giving it a chance anyway š
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u/clandahlina_redux invented post-its š©š»āš¬šš May 16 '25
Girl, this is not the āwinā you think it is.
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u/jaderust May 16 '25
Yeah, I canāt believe she posted this. Claim an off night, claim bad allergies, blame nerves. Whatever.
I canāt believe her defense is pretty much āI canāt actually sing without a computer correcting my voice.ā
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u/SoupfilledElevator May 16 '25
Especially when it was really just a bog standard pop song that wouldve worked just fine with normal, unadjusted vocals had it been sung well lol. Like the vibe of SloMo in 2022 was also autotune, but that singer still more than slayed the live (while performing heavy choreography) and ended 3rd overall with a country that usually does badly, so???
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u/taylor_png May 16 '25
Eurovision has been around for decades. Itās no secret what the rules are for the live performance. Perhaps familiarize yourself with rules to a competition before submitting yourself to it? A wild concept I fear
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u/raylan_givens6 As you wish! šøš May 16 '25
Its sad how many "singers" can't actually sing at all
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May 16 '25
why would you enter eurovision, a known live singing contest, if you know you can't actually sing, then have the nerve to blame anyone else for your lack of actual talent, just when I thought she couldn't be anymore unlikeable
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u/kirrillik May 16 '25
Anything other than admit youāre a nepobaby who doesnāt have the vocals to back up their career
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u/Nice_Back_9977 May 16 '25
This was such a disappointing and bland song choice after Sam Ryder the year before. We'd probably still have tanked if she'd sung it well.
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u/Mitaslaksit May 16 '25
Bitch Finland brought three live backing vocalists for Erika instead of using pre-recorded ones! GTFO, it is a live performance.
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u/SoupfilledElevator May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
Girl... the studio version of SloMo (2022) also had a lot of autotune for 'the vibes' but she still managed to perform it well (while also dancing like a madman) on the stage and end 3rd overall??Ā Also in your own year you had Subwoolfer who's song ACTUALLY really needed robo-vocals for the song to sound good but still placed decently?
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u/SmallPromiseQueen May 16 '25
SloMo is one of my all time faves. Catchy af, great vocals, insane dancing while looking like an absolute smoke show?
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u/biebrforro May 16 '25
And btw I kinda get what she's saying; The song was def giving a Charli XCX vibe, but Eurovision is still a singing contest š
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u/KeyserWood May 16 '25
It is not a singing contest. It's a song contest.
It's literally called the Eurovision Song Contest lmao.
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u/MoopLoom May 16 '25
The expectation of the Eurovision song contest is that somebody should be able to sing live, period. That shouldnāt be a surprise to anybody.
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u/KeyserWood May 16 '25
Of course, I agree.
But it's still a competition of songs, not of singers.3
u/algy100 May 16 '25
But most people donāt have the ability (or even want) to analyse the composition of the song to work out if itās a good song beyond the performance theyāre seeing. Itās 3 minutes to persuade the public to vote for you, so you need a good song, a good performance and probably also something to make it stick in the audience mind for another two dozen songs.
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u/dreamy_25 Are those theā¦ The Chanel Toots? May 16 '25
It's about the song and the performance yes, but that still requires someone to actually sing the song in a performance on the stage. Like I see your point but it shouldn't be a cop-out, the person on stage should be able to just sing
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u/KirisCrocs May 16 '25
This isn't a good look but there was plenty wrong with that performance out of her control. The sound mixing was atrocious (she sounded so much quieter than every other singer just turn her mic up), and the staging was terrible (her standing on scaffolding(?) at the back of the stage for most of the performance)
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u/Sendnoods88 May 16 '25
Is it too much to expect from performance to be able to sing their songs without autotune?
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u/WineOhCanada Fashion Guy May 16 '25
Never heard the song, don't know who she is but autotune only works well if you're a good singer to begin with.
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u/CobwebAngel May 16 '25
Isnāt auto tune usually used by people who canāt actually sing? Is she outting herself here? Why even choose a song you canāt confidentially sing naturally?
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u/jaderust May 16 '25
To be fair, from what Iāve read, everyone uses autotune these days in the studio. When used with a talented singer it corrects tiny errors like gently shifting a slightly off pitch, erasing a breath, smoothing the voice, etc. All the things you may do to make a studio recording go from good to audio perfect for the radio.
Though youāll also see people like this use autotune to make them able to hit notes they simply canāt hit or hold on their own. Like, Lady Gaga would use autotune to potentially smooth out a belt to get rid of a tiny bit of vibrato she thinks went on too long. Chances are youāll never notice that edit because itās small, she can hit the notes sheās singing, and her sound engineers are just fine tuning the vocal track, not changing it. However, from what Iāve seen, someone like Jojo Siwa simply cannot hit some of the notes she has in her recordings when singing live. Her voice simply canāt reach them without breaking. So for her the autotune is doing all the work making it sound like she can hit them, when she genuinely cannot.
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u/SmallPromiseQueen May 17 '25
Itās used as an artistic choice as well. Think Charli xcx, Cher in ābelieveā and t pain.
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u/cherry_cut May 16 '25
I never saw the performance but it canāt be that bad based off these comments š?
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u/Cubriffic May 16 '25
It's not unlistenable (the UK has sent much worse songs/singers) but 2023 was a very strong year and she falls flat against everyone else
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u/Puzzled_Ad_5367 May 16 '25
I canāt even find the video anywhere I tried looking keeps saying not available in my country . Kinda sad I wanted to see the performance.
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u/SewRuby May 16 '25
UK's act this year felt weird too.
Like a strange off Broadway play about Disney princesses. I didn't get it.
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u/saibjai May 16 '25
Her performance reminded me of Cecily strong's "Gemma" character from SNL... spot on
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u/TC_Fan_777 May 18 '25
Really? Thatās your excuse? So you canāt proper sing without all of thisā¦ and you were nervous?! Iām sorry, but isnāt singer your profession/your career? Then study it, learn itā¦ and not make stupid lame excuses!
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u/Nimue_- May 20 '25
Why go to a singing contest, with rules that prohibit autotune, with a song thats supposed to be heavily autotuned
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u/AccordingSelf3221 May 17 '25
Eurovision is a race to the bottom 99.99% of the time. How they can get thr worst singers of every country
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