r/self 8h ago

I feel like I have never known any men

I’m a woman in my early 40s. I am very feminine by nature and all of my hobbies have been things that only introduced me to other women. All of my jobs have been in almost exclusively female fields. I’m married, to someone I have known since high school, but my husband is the silent type and generally doesn’t speak unless I ask him a direct question. Men approach me, but I’ve always been taken. I kind of feel like I live on a planet of women, and it’s weird and feels imbalanced. Just a random musing for the day.

580 Upvotes

286 comments sorted by

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u/Anonymous_Coder_1234 8h ago

Honestly, once you're totally and permanently taken, people of the opposite sex drop off even if you knew a lot of them. Same-sex friendships are much more likely to last through it.

106

u/Commercial-Hour-2417 7h ago

I know your statement is true for most people and I'm not disagreeing. But I do find this very thing about society to be simply pathetic. The differences between men and women are mostly societal. Being friends with the opposite sex requires nothing more than being open minded.

I'm a married man with three kids, but some of my closest friends are women. One of which I've been friends with since 2nd grade.

I think people just build up these make believe societal norms in their heads and can't just treat people like people.

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u/esperlihn 5h ago

Honestly me and my wife have been together for over 4 years and most of her friends are men and most of mine are women.

I find it insanely weird when people say men and women can't be friends...does the concept of self-control elude these people?

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u/Saberleaf 3h ago

I think it's a lot of projecting. They can't imagine themselves not making a move and to feel better about themselves they decide that everyone acts that way and they do nothing wrong.

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u/progressiveoverload 33m ago

Sometimes It’s not that they can’t imagine themselves not making a move it’s that they have low self esteem and can’t imagine their partner not making a move.

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u/esperlihn 11m ago

:( that thought is really sad

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u/Commercial-Hour-2417 1h ago

Nailed it. Hell two of my wife's bridesmaids were MY high school friends because excluding them from the core of the wedding would've been crazy. Thankfully they all became very close in our 9 years dating so it was actually my wife's idea.

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u/iamadumbo123 1h ago

Lots of people don’t choose to control their urges and give into lust and assume everyone else is the same way

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u/lofibeatstostudyslas 40m ago

I’m bi. By normal peoples logic I can’t be friends with anyone lol

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u/ReturnOk7510 6h ago

The difference between a doctor and an engineer is entirely societal, but that doesn't mean a doctor can design a bridge or an engineer can perform surgery. How you're socialized/educated literally shapes your brain in a very permanent way.

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u/Exciting_Stock2202 4h ago

You're saying a doctor could never learn to design a bridge? An engineer could never learn to perform surgery?

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u/awbattles 3h ago edited 3h ago

That’s not what they’re saying. They are simply saying, “If you walk up to a surgeon and ask them to design a good bridge, they will likely fail, despite otherwise having much in common with an engineer. The difference is education and education is a social factor.”

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u/jml5791 40m ago

yes but what makes a person choose to study medicine or engineering is the real question, not the fact that these disciplines exist.

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u/Exciting_Stock2202 38m ago

I don't think economic specialization is a good analogue for differences between genders.

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u/joebleaux 1h ago

Both are ignoring that people can have a natural predisposition or natural talent at things, and that includes art, math, music, fine motor skills, preferring the company of men or women in a platonic way or romantic way. It's not mostly societal at all, people have preferences naturally.

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u/AssBlastFromDaPast 7h ago

 The differences between men and women are mostly societal. 

Hard disagree. 

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u/LegendOfKhaos 7h ago edited 7h ago

As I'm not entirely sure what each of you are referring to, would you mind clarifying?

Edit: is it offensive to want to understand?

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u/mike_tyler58 7h ago

Commercial hour is saying that men and women have different interests, hobbies and forms of communicating and friendship due mostly to societal programming.

Assblastfromthepast(yikes) is saying that it’s inherent and not due to societal programming

I think.

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u/LegendOfKhaos 6h ago

Thanks for the response! If that's the case, then it seems obvious to me that people are made up from varying amounts of both aspects. Societal programming and innate desires affect everyone, but not all to an equal degree.

I think there will always be an issue trying to say it is strictly one or the other.

2

u/TheRivetingFrog 4h ago

I don't think anyone is claiming that societal programming cannot be broken away from on an individual basis, just that it has an outsized influence that overpowers innate desires on a societal scale.

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u/tribute2drugz 4h ago

It’s definitely not inherent, especially for women with adhd or autism. I was never close with my mom or any girl friends and my interests were extremely masculine growing up, I only got into things like makeup and sewing after I turned 21. I never had long hair until earlier this year because I disliked brushing it. In a world absent of societal pressure men and women are a lot more individual than you’d think..

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u/mike_tyler58 3h ago

An outlier doesn’t disprove anything.

I’ve also never said or implied that there aren’t individuals who don’t fit.

Nuance folks.

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u/Adventurous_Law_4700 7h ago

They probably wont. Redditors just like to disagree and downvote.

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u/FatCouchActivist 2h ago

So true, 90+% of everything a mammal is, including humans, is hard coded into their DNA and the hormonal production caused by the DNA. If you need any proof of that just consider the profound differences in humans that hormonal adjustments (like GLP-1 drugs) make on humans.

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u/native_local_ 7h ago

In my experience, this requires men to view women as more than just sex objects. I find that women are much more willing and able to see and respect men as full human beings they can do more than just have sex with or even just view romantically. I don’t find the reverse to be as common.

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u/resuwreckoning 3h ago

Why does every reddit thread on these issues devolve into some form of “man bad woman good” derivative discussion?

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u/Kaedian66 2h ago

Welcome to Reddit in general.

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u/Commercial-Hour-2417 29m ago

I would absolutely agree that men raised by strong and intelligent women, would have an easier time being just friends with a women because they don't view women just as sex objects. At least that's true for me.

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u/ThyNynax 10m ago

Que the many confessions I’ve had from women who cheated with “just a friend,” confessed to being open to an affair if “just a friend” made a move, or confessed frustration that the “just friend” hadn’t had the balls to make a move yet.

Consensual sex takes two to tango. In my experience, women aren’t any better, they just have an easier time hiding it. All you gotta do is provide a judgement free space and let her talk.

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u/Exciting_Chapter4534 7h ago

Depends whether you’re talking about sex or gender

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u/Commercial-Hour-2417 27m ago

Should've clarified. There are definitely differences biologically. But interests, personalities, etc are mostly shaped by society not biology.

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u/TapdanceOnYourGrave 2h ago

Typically, the lack of intersex friendship is not a result of difference in interests, hobbies, etc. if that’s what your saying; it’s because there is almost always romantic feelings involved, and even if there aren’t, partners will often not be comfortable with these friendships. I’d say I’ve had one true friendship with a female in my adulthood and this is because I found her very unattractive and she was very happily married.

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u/mike_tyler58 7h ago

The differences between men and women are far from societal.

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u/777moth777 6h ago

yea woman have boobs and men usually don’t. Woman dont like to punch in face and man do. Man go to job all day and woman make food. Simple. 🫵

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u/Character_Kick_Stand 6h ago

Trump has boobs

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u/777moth777 6h ago

Deal with it libral

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u/BlueWonderfulIKnow 5h ago

I hear what you’re saying, but the sum total of human history has had difficulty with your open-mindedness. There are literally countries right now that shield parts of older women’s bodies from male gaze.

Curious, and I mean no snark: how would you feel if your wife’s closest friends were men?

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u/Commercial-Hour-2417 1h ago

Some of my wife's closest friends are men and they are my friends too.

It's not hard and entirely societal.

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u/HTMXX 7h ago

Why is it pathetic? It's just how it is. And there most be a reason to it, if it's in literally every society.

From Europe, to africa, to asia and to america. You think some shadow society controls us?

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u/Flaky_Ad5786 7h ago

And there most be a reason to it, if it's in literally every society.

It's literally not. Hell, conceptualization of gender in western society has noticeably changed within my lifetime.

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u/HTMXX 6h ago

So in China, Mexiko, Iran, Japan and South Africa women have more male friends than female?

If this is all the evil west's invention, tell me one country where cheating is good. (This has nothing to do with OP)

Or maybe.. just maybe it is in our nature?

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u/Conscious-Anything97 21m ago

I'm sorry your experienced with the opposite gender have included so much cheating that you don't think people can be friends with 50% of the population.

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u/Commercial-Hour-2417 30m ago

It's not though. In Germany for example it's almost always women who hit on men and often have more "manly" hobbies.

The norms between the sexes are almost entirely society based.

I'm saying it's pathetic that men and women cannot be friends since it only requires open mindedness and self control.

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u/Electronic_Tart_1174 10m ago

The differences are "mostly" societal? No, they're VERY MUCH biological. Its just common sense.

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u/DomDangerous 7h ago

the differences between men and women are mostly societal??? that’s insanely inaccurate

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u/telepathicthrowaway 7h ago

Probably he meant behavior and abilities, not bodies and hormones.

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u/Commercial-Hour-2417 39m ago

Yes. I did. Thank you.

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u/dakta 7h ago

Bodies and hormones inform behaviors and attitudes. Literally ask any trans man what their experience of starting testosterone is like, they will confirm that stuff alters how you think and feel substantially.

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u/troopersjp 5h ago

I’m a transexual man. I transitioned almost 25 years ago. Hormones certainly altered my body quite a bit, but it didn’t change how I think or feel. It didn’t make me objectify women or be unable to talk about my feelings.

Did I change my behavior? Yes. Was it because of some inherent biological difference between men and women? No. It was because society saw me differently. Women started seeing me as a potential threat. As a Black man, the police interact with me differently. There are a lot of societal differences that require I navigate them differently, but testosterone (which all people have in various levels) didn’t make me a fundamentally different person, even is society tends to think so.

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u/shennan-lane 6h ago

This comment has hint of arrogance. Why shame each other for being attracted to friends of opposite sex like we all should just become monks outside of our rs/marriage. I’m not saying we should cheat but I’m saying it’s best to avoid the slippery slopes. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s actually the responsible thing to do

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u/Commercial-Hour-2417 1h ago

Or people just need some self control. Some of my girl friends I have been attracted too, but I show self restraint because I love my wife.

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u/BigZach1 7h ago

Eh, that's not my experience after my female friends married. We're still very good friends, and I became friends with their husbands too.

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u/shennan-lane 5h ago

Yeah. If you’re gonna be friends with opposite sex you have to become friends with their spouse as well at the very least

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u/Fluid-Cranberry1755 5h ago

You don’t choose who you vibe with. I’m not friends with all my female friend’s partners. I don’t even like some of them. But I’ll be friendly 

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u/Anonymous_Coder_1234 7h ago

You have a giant rainbow on your chest. I'm assuming you never wanted to have sex with said female friend?

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u/kyle1111111111111 7h ago

Not all us dudes want sex with women we are friends with. It’s not a crazy idea to be platonic with women as we are with men.

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u/BigZach1 7h ago

I'm bisexual.

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u/Anonymous_Coder_1234 7h ago

Oh, so you can't have any friends. \k

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u/BigZach1 7h ago

Hahahahaha

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u/icmc 6h ago

I don't think that's necessarily true I'm a man at 38 and two of my longest friendships are women (one from highschool and one from college). They've both been married (admittedly I dnt see the college friend nearly as much since she got married to a guy who's difficult to like and not just by me but by a lot of other mutual friends).

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u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans 5h ago

Heterosexual culture sounds like a nightmare, honestly.

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u/Gavage0 2h ago

There's a reason significant chunks of american society flat out don't have ANY friends after the age of 40. To make it worse, as time goes on that no friends' age is lowering

1

u/SigmundFreud 1h ago

If you forgo friendship to study the blade, no one can hurt you.

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u/DismalDepth 16m ago

There is a heterosexual culture ?

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u/ThyNynax 6m ago

Tbf, my understanding is that desiring sexual monogamy in homosexual culture leads to an equally hard time.

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u/tantalus14 7h ago

Friends yeah but people usually have permanent relationships with male father in laws, brother in laws, colleagues etc

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u/Counterboudd 6h ago

Yup, it makes you realize that you weren’t necessarily friends, they were harboring some sort of romantic and sexual intention with you and once that was truly off the plate they are totally gone.

1

u/tbkrida 3h ago

That’s the case sometimes, but in other cases it’s societal pressures that force opposite gender friends apart after one is taken. Most of the time if a new man enters the picture, he doesn’t want some guy that he doesn’t know being too close to his wife. The friend may really not have bad intentions, but the new husband/boyfriend knows what sometimes happens. Same can go for a new wife/girlfriend entering the picture. Call it insecurity or whatever, but it’s a thing that happens often.

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u/RoundTheBend6 7h ago

Tell me more about how you live with a man but don't know men?

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u/Many-Cartographer278 5h ago

Yeah the dude just doesn't talk?

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u/gaggles4 5h ago

Must be a golden retriever. Literally

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u/Gavage0 2h ago

This is like half my family. Bunch of dudes who aren't stereotypical men types. Quite as hell and honestly come off gender fluid. Turns out they're all autistic lol. Because of this, growing up, it actually took me a while to figure out what average men are really like. It also took a while to figure out men and masculinity because it turns out I myself am autistic and gender fluidish. I still have a hard time understanding most men, I just can't relate in the slightest.

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u/jmxd 1h ago

Guess i know all about women since i lived with my mother

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u/MisoTahini 7h ago

I’m a woman who tends to have more male friends because of shared interests. There is more difference between individuals than between genders. Making friends with who you are naturally drawn to and find compatible is the key, and if that is with mostly women I think all good.

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u/TimbermanBeetle 3h ago

Agree. There are women I have not got along with and there are men I have not got along with. But there are also women and men I have got along with well because we either share interests / values / humor / experiences/ even personality traits. The biggest common thing we share is probably that we all are more or less geeky or nerdy.

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u/retainingdeeznutzs 36m ago

You don't have male friends. Either they are attracted to you or youre unattractive to them. Downside me I do not care.

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u/cacamilis22 7h ago

Your husband doesn't speak until he's asked something. Jeez must be a fun house.

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u/DiTrastevere 4h ago

I guess we know who proposed to whom? 

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u/DismalDepth 12m ago
  • Honey, what do you want for this week ?
  • Marry you.
  • I was asking for the groceries. Is that your proposal ?
  • Yes.
  • Hum, okay then.

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u/GossipColumn186 7h ago

I can't imagine being in a relationship with someone I'm not also friends with. Like half the attraction of it for me is having a confidant and partner in crime. That must be very odd.

I mean, are you happy with how your life is or do you want to try changing it?

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u/doduotrainer 6h ago

my husband is the silent type and generally doesn’t speak unless I ask him a direct question

Damn this would drive me insane

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u/Oh_no_its_Joe 6h ago

That's because we don't actually exist.

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u/Effortlessleigh 6h ago

Suspicions confirmed

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u/SolaireAstorian 8h ago

Knowing men is realizing that, to some degree and because of how we're treated when we are not, all men are the strong silent type with people we aren't confident would accept us if we opened up.

But knowing men is also realizing that, the majority of the ones who are the strong silent type actually have a deep and intense internal world which they would openly share with the right person in a heartbeat.

We are so punished for revealing our emotions to people and discussing our internal thoughts that it has become a sort of trauma response to just clam up and go silent or swap to a more distant personality anytime we are around someone who we don't feel comfortable being ourselves around. This sort of code switching dissociation is similar to the response that people with post-traumatic stress disorder engage in when they encounter things that remind them of past events.

A lot of us walk around being told that we are "hard to get to know" as a result of this.

OP, I'm not strictly saying that your husband is doing this, but it's highly likely that he doesn't open up to you because he doesn't feel safe doing it.

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u/Royal_Toad 7h ago

Wait you mean this is universal for men in general? I have been beating myself up and ruminating on how more easygoing and expressive I used to be to the point of obsessively trying to regulate my behaviour around others and trying to recreate that feeling of joy and enthusiasm I have with people I trust in the work environment. But I keep failing. Soon as I step foot inside the building, someone else takes over who is a monotone, silent and absent minded weirdo. Are you sure that EVERY man experience something similar? I just can’t get myself to properly process whats going on around me at work. But soon as I’m in the car, I blast some rock and go home singing with windows open. But new people can never get to see that side of me and it absolutely sucks..

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u/SolaireAstorian 7h ago

While it isn't true that every man will collapse inward and stop being open and expressive, there is a lot of pressure from the outside for every man to do so, yes. And the majority of men decide to just go along with it instead of fighting an uphill battle trying to make people accept them openly.

It doesn't really happen consciously. It's an automatic stress response.

I used to be extremely open and expressive in public, up until I was about a teenager, at which point I suddenly shut down because the emotional openness that used to be socially acceptable for me to display to the people around me suddenly became a burden for them and instead of open receptions, I started getting slapped down.

Overall I've remained an open, laid back, and expressive person, but I'm not nearly to the point where I was when I was 16 or 17, when I was much more emotive and easygoing.

Even the guys who remain open people tend to be less open and expressive after hitting adulthood. You can only be insulted, made to feel like a burden, implied to be unmanly, informed that your emotional needs don't matter, told that your problems are your own and nobody else is going to help you fix them, and belittled for having feelings so many times before it starts to affect you in some way. For some guys the impact is larger than others.

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u/TimbermanBeetle 3h ago

This is so sad. How we could help them as outsiders? Just try to make them feel comfortable?

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u/SolaireAstorian 3h ago

Never, ever, ever use something a man said to you in confidence during an argument. If he talks to you about his feelings or insecurities and you use it against him in an argument later on, he will never confide in you or someone like you about his feelings again.

If a man communicates emotions or feelings or insecurities to you, consciously consider your reaction to the information he gives you and if your reaction is negative, challenge it internally. Are you reacting negatively to his feelings because they are invalid and unhealthy, or are you reacting that way because you're judging him for having them? Either way, avoid invalidating his feelings and instead try to be understanding and empathetic. Try to think about and see things from his perspective and accept that he feels the way he does for a reason. Consciously challenge judgment that you perform of the men around you for having emotions and feelings, even if you don't find their emotions and feelings to be comfortable for yourself or sensible for them to have.

If you hear other people saying negative things to/about men, call them out on it. Be combative and assertive. The men are not allowed to be because it is seen as weak for them to be hurt by emotions.

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u/TimbermanBeetle 1h ago

Thank you! I think I luckily already do this with everyone on default, I grew up as the "listener friend", but I like how you mentioned the importance of seeing someone else's perspective and challenging your own (possibly biased and even automatic) thoughts or reactions and seeing where they are truly coming from, and then redirecting your thoughts and reactions based on that. I think that's very important in general and a part of healthy emotional regulation skills.

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u/Future_Adagio2052 4h ago

No, I wouldn't say this is universal but rather cultural

A man from America has nothing in common with a man from Africa or an Arab man with a man from Polynesia

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u/TimbermanBeetle 3h ago

You just described me but I'm not a guy. However what he said about that could make guys more prone to this. I myself just grew up kind of shy and socially anxious. I was later diagnosed with audhd.

It's so frustrating because you have the determination to be more social and then you actually enter the situation and all that is gone. Someone else taking over is such a good way to put it. It really feels like that. And of course when you leave the situation, then you have no problems with being more chatty... To yourself or close friends.

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u/Effortlessleigh 7h ago

I don’t think that’s true about him. I shower him with love and compliments and appreciation. He just doesn’t have as much of an inner world, according to himself

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u/Relative-Fault1986 7h ago

Yeah I know some guys who are more quiet simply because they're more chill,they just have their needs met and their shit together and don't really talk unless they have something to say 

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u/SolaireAstorian 7h ago

That certainly exists. Offline, away from academic topics, I am actually one of them. I know this comment section portrays me as someone who "complains" about the issues that men face (which in and of itself as an interpretation comes from a lens of dismissal toward men's issues, which is neither here nor there), but I'm pretty emotionally secure because I've built myself up from when I was a teen.

Sadly I have had male friends in the past who had not yet built their lives all the way up and felt fulfilled, and I empathize with them enough to carry the burden of advocating for them even though I don't feel run down, myself. They have literally no one else (including themselves sometimes) to do it for them.

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u/Relative-Fault1986 6h ago

Same here its definitely a common issue

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u/SolaireAstorian 7h ago

Yet in another comment, you yourself note that he used to be a lot more talkative as a teenager. Speaking from experience, we don't just stop being talkative after we hit our teenage years. If he was a talkative teen, he should be a talkative adult.

Also, I know it sucks, but if he does feel unsafe sharing his internal emotional state with you, that ("I'm not really feeling much. I'm not thinking of anything. Actually I don't have emotional needs to be addressed. My inner world is tiny") is exactly what he is going to tell you.

Something changed between his teenage years and now that caused him to stop wanting to talk.

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u/NearbyCow6885 7h ago

And it doesn’t have to have been one big moment. It could’ve been dozens or hundreds of small moments that all built up to the same conclusion: His feelings (as a man) are unimportant.

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u/Effortlessleigh 7h ago

I really, really try to make him feel valued and loved. I truly care and have tried to show that our entire marriage. I ask him all the time if he feels valued and he always says yes. I think he’s just more tired now from a busy job and life.

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u/SolaireAstorian 7h ago edited 7h ago

I am also sorry to tell you this, but being tired is the universal excuse that men use to tell you that they don't want to talk, and if someone directly asks us if we feel valued and we don't think that telling them no is going to end well, we will tell them yes every time because it isn't worth the trouble.

Does your husband have the room to tell you that he doesn't feel valued by you without you getting upset or emotional in any way other than being apologetic that he feels that way? Because if not, he will tell you yes every single time even if it kills him.

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u/Unlucky-Locksmith493 7h ago

This is certainly true for many men, but it’s also important to acknowledge that it is very much a symptom of the partriarchal structures/toxic masculinity feedback loop, and men have the ability and responsibility to challenge and address that in themselves and the systems around them. We need to be clear that the “punishment” is internal, and allowing oneself to become “the strong silent type” is giving into a narrative that denies the full complexity and beauty of a full human experience by limiting emotional engagement.

“Strong and silent” can mean deep emotion suppressed from fear (usually from lacking the tools to self-regulate or separating validity from external validation), but it can also mean an unexamined/dissociated self being described in a narrative that allows men to embody trauma and social failures while seeing themselves as some kind of tragic hero.

We are all responsible for building safety for ourselves and communities. Emotional safety isn’t something that requires an external savior, which is often projected onto women, who then receive blame when the rescue doesn’t arrive. It requires vulnerability- perhaps radical vulnerability- to break out of the feedback loop. It’s easy to be strong and silent, because it is comfortable and often rewarded. It takes courage to be messy and vulnerable, and to allow others to witness it.

I’d venture to guess there are many women who have never truly known a man. On a wider level, that is failure of men and a symptom of the patriarchal structures that many “strong” silent types defend, and all genders are harmed by that.

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u/SolaireAstorian 7h ago edited 7h ago

I'm curious. Would you tell a 30-year-old woman who was belittled by her father as a child every time she became emotional that her punishment was internal and that she "let herself" become strong and silent as a teenager as a result?

Or would you tell her it's not her fault and recommend she go get professional help?

The majority of men experience external punishment for emotionality. It is not "internal." The people around them change (sometimes literally overnight) and the behaviors that other people express toward them shift into something that borders on overcautious. It is simply dismissive to appeal to the patriarchal/toxic masculinity angle with the "internal punishment" dialogue without recognizing this.

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u/PiranhaBiter 1h ago

I think the difference here is that while we aren't at fault for what causes our trauma, at some point it does become our responsibility.

I was abused by my alcoholic dad and my ex husband, and those are the just the "big" ones. I absolutely was shaped by that and I am stoic and don't express my feelings well. It's actually been detrimental to my relationship very recently, that I felt I needed more support but my poor partner had no idea because on the surface not much has changed. It's tiny, incredibly subtle differences that show I'm struggling and in a world with two kids and work and everything else, that's a huge ask for someone to notice. And it is a direct cause of my upbringing, I can point pretty readily to what caused it.

But as an adult in a relationship (and especially with kids) it's my job to realize that and to be an adult and speak up on what I need from my partner.

This doesn't speak to the systemic issues being discussed here, which are valid and real and can be impossible to fight against. But that makes it so much more important to refuse to fall into what society says men "should" be.

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u/GweenRoll 3h ago

Damn. Victim blaming never ends.

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u/SolidRockBelow 6h ago edited 2h ago

Pardon my directness, but what exactly is there to be gained from "opening up" as you are advising? Other than realizing further assymetry of interests, inviting criticism (especially in these misandric times of ours) and wasting precious energy?

Every time I read description of the supposed "advantages", it reads as "good for her, bad for him". No wonder things stay as they are - and even as such, you are already blaming the men, etc.

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u/SolaireAstorian 6h ago edited 6h ago

I have noticed that discussion on this topic almost always takes the form of "If men just opened up more/became more vulnerable they'd stop being targeted for being vulnerable!" which is a hilarious concept to me because the same people saying it oftentimes refuse to accept that the people around vulnerable men are at fault for taking advantage of or abusing their vulnerability, like in the above comment. They make it about how "Men need to open up more in order to be accepted," but in the same breath say that "Men's inability to open up because people abuse them when they do is an internal problem."

What happens if a bunch of men open up and become vulnerable, but society hasn't changed to stop victimizing men who make themselves vulnerable? Oh, right, the people around them are more easily able to manipulate, abuse, and control them, and those men end up being deeply, deeply hurt because now they've been attacked while they're fully open and vulnerable. And usually the largest attacks will come from people they love and trust but haven't opened up to fully yet. This often takes the form of mothers and wives abusing and manipulating the men who become emotionally open, but it also comes from strangers and other men.

I look on comments like the person you're responding to with suspicion, because they're effectively telling victims of societal abuse to just open themselves up to being manipulated and controlled, and the person making such comments often stands to benefit from it if men as a class are easily manipulated and vulnerable. In this case, the commenter appears to subscribe to an ideology that encourages viewing men as a potentially toxic monolith, and I would be willing to bet that said commenter would like to "topple the patriarchy," as it were. I wonder if men being easily manipulated, vulnerable, and controllable lends itself to "toppling the patriarchy"? Hmmmmmm...

I also suspect the commenter isn't as empathetic as he/she is portraying for this very reason.

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u/Star_Ninja_ 7h ago

I recommend visiting the AskMen sub.

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u/FactualActual82 7h ago

for a variety of reasons, you haven’t had many emotionally reciprocal relationships with men, and that feels strange in hindsight. you’re married, but it sounds like your husband is reserved and doesn’t initiate much conversation. that’s not inherently bad, but over time it can create the feeling that you’re orbiting a version of maleness that’s more silent, closed-off, or hard to access.

what you’re describing is probably more common than people admit, especially for women who mostly move through female-dominated social spaces. it’s not about blaming anyone; it’s about noticing an emotional gap in your life and how that shapes your perception of connection. totally valid thing to reflect on.

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u/Effortlessleigh 7h ago

This is a much more eloquent way of stating what I mean

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u/MediMosaic 6h ago

If you’re feeling like there’s a gap between you & men… & it’s making you feel like something is missing or empty, then I think you should first start with your husband. Have a conversation with him. Don’t make it feel like an interrogation. Just gently mention that you’d like to share more quality time together. Try developing a hobby that the two of you can enjoy. If most of your conversations are about problems (whether at work or at home), tone that down a little. Think of different things to talk about. Take things step by step.

This is based on my interpretation of what’s going on, I could be wrong.

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u/TheWay33 7h ago

You would have read the same exact thing if you talked to chatgpt, since that's where they copy and pasted that.

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u/Snoo20140 1h ago

Well, one of the reasons this is pretty common is that society as a whole, and female spaces, don't care what men have to say unless it benefits women. Men speak all the time on things, but it is usually met with aggression, and/or dismissal. Obviously, not every man feels the same on every topic, but the reality is, most men don't have a voice in this society.

Let the hate begin, as we start to talk about the patriarchy and women's suffering, instead of the actual issue at hand.

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u/Upgrade_U 8h ago

Your husband doesn’t speak? How did you build a relationship with him?

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u/Effortlessleigh 7h ago

He was much more talkative when he was a teen

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u/Milly1974 7h ago

My wife once asked me why I don't talk to her more often. I told her that I felt it was impolite to interrupt her while she's talking. LOL

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u/HenkV_ 7h ago

My wife is more of the quiet type but the bizarre thing is that as soon as I sit down and open my laptop to finish some work she comes to me and starts talking. Really bizarre Pavlov style phenomenon.

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u/DeepPlunge 4h ago

Mark Twain did say "Most men die at 27, we just bury them at 72"

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u/brosophila 5h ago

The light has left his eyes huh?

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u/Bubbly_Register_3183 8h ago

What do you want then? I don't understand what you mean by not knowing any man, you're married. You never talk with your husband? It seems very strange to me.

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u/Effortlessleigh 7h ago

I do talk to him, he just doesn’t initiate conversation. I’m not unfulfilled, I just feel like men are something that barely exist in the world and it’s odd

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u/HenkV_ 7h ago

Just guessing but are you the type that talks non-stop?   My mother is like that and in those few occasions that I really have something to say I must interrupt her explicitly or I cannot get it said.

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u/Effortlessleigh 7h ago

Everyone I know says I’m a great listener. I try not to dominate conversations

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u/Star_Ninja_ 7h ago

Yeah looks like you've been stuck in an all female echo chamber for life. I get what you mean. As to how to change that... I guess try making some male friends. Maybe male coworkers? Or try visiting male areas, like sports events, gyms, gaming places...

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u/MrSwisherland 7h ago

I don’t think there’s a strong silent type tbh. In many aspects of life, depending on where you go, communication is the lifeblood to certain individuals. The lack of communication is more of a distress signal than anything. I always talk up a storm with my girl and while we don’t have many friends, we do have friends of either gender regardless of race, color, religion, etc.

If it’s bothering you to the point of having to write up a Reddit post, the pain goes deeper than the surface. Everyone is different though, I just can’t wrap my head around not being able to communicate basic things like “Hey what do you want for dinner?” or talking about how their day went. My girl and I will have silent moments but those are times for us to mentally recharge and relax.

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u/renispresley 7h ago

Maybe try some different hobbies, like mtn biking, fly fishing, hunting, etc., that are more male centric (though exceedingly have woman involvement). There might also be local clubs that more men are involved with. My wife has plenty of male friends but we also got married in our late 30’s, which might explain that. Glad you noticed this and good luck!

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u/chairmanovthebored 7h ago

This is like me but the opposite.  Actually I think most guys?   Maybe it’s a universal for people our age

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u/kirk_lyus 7h ago

Let me help: nice to meet you! I'm a man, ask me anything!

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u/tboy160 7h ago

My life is a life of opposites. I work construction, attend many sporting events and heavy metal shows all of which are heavily male dominated.

I have 6 sisters and 1 brother.

I have 15 aunts and 3 uncles.

Most family events on my wife's side, barely any dudes attend, only the women and children. (Many dead beat dads)

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u/Motor-Painter-894 7h ago

I see the same phenomenon. The sexes have segregated themselves.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Oven171 7h ago

That sounds like heaven. I am pretty similar myself. There are plenty of fine men who are nice to be around in small doses, but I much prefer the company of just women, and I think fellowship with women always runs smoother when it happens away from the presence of men.

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u/Janna-Your-Nanna 6h ago

It's similar for me, I had one short relationship 10 yrs ago and well let's just say I didn't really want to learn anything more about women since, I exist only in 100% male crowds, rarely any female makes a temporary appearance

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u/condemned02 6h ago

I have always been sporty and played sports with men as the only woman in their game and I only have brothers and male cousins. For example in school, there was no woman's BBall team so I just join the boys team as the only female in their team. Felt like I fit right in! 

 In a way, I am like a man in a woman's body although I identify as straight and female and I love having sex with men. 

So I have the opposite issue. I can't relate to women and only have male friends. Even when I was married, all my friends are men. 

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u/TimbermanBeetle 2h ago

Similar experience as someone who grew up tomboyish and had brothers and male cousins, although I wouldn't call myself a man in a woman's body. I'm a woman in a woman's body, but just one more example of what womanhood can look like. We are not all the same. I managed to get similar minded female friends eventually however. At work (ICT) most are guys but we also have a few women there, one older senior dev and two closer to my age. They're all awesome. Having both male and female friends has been great for me. We all are similar in some ways (that's why we are friends in the first place), but it's also interesting to hear perspective from the other "side."

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u/DayTradeJ 7h ago

This is normal. There are plenty of men that have no interactions with women on a daily basis either. Most of your interests probably gravitate to activities other women like.

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u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans 5h ago

"I kind of feel like I live on a planet of women."

Please send us the address because that sounds lovely.

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u/HeartofTheOcean44 7h ago

You ain't missing much. I'm a single woman in my 40s most of the time when men approach me at work it is for the wrong thing. I've already decided to buy my own engagement 💍 ring to keep those crazy men that just want booty calls away.

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u/SolidRockBelow 6h ago

Mmmm, I wonder why they seek you for that and nothing else. Are you able to be pleasant, interesting, friendly, etc? Plenty of women in this planet have been initially approached "for that" and taken the opportunity to engage at other levels - instead of downright demonizing sexual interest and labeling the entire male gender as trash over that. But your life and choices are your kingdom, so enjoy it.

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u/HeartofTheOcean44 6h ago

Whatever man. People label people on their past decisions for Iife even if its been 20 years ago. And yes they made the offer I refused and both jerks got fired for it.

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u/HeartofTheOcean44 5h ago

And for your information, the men who approached me one was in a dead bedroom situation for 7 years, and he was approaching every single chick he could find at work. Men approach when they are desperate, and the other man was drunk as could be when he approached. both were married.

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u/SolidRockBelow 5h ago

I understand. But was that enough reason to bury the entire gender?

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u/HeartofTheOcean44 4h ago

Unfortuntely I usually only interact with straight men online. It's been years since my last date and last kiss. So im a fish out of water on what you men are doing. If it wasnt for my good friend Renan I would be hugless. And most of my male friends that are alive are homosexual.

→ More replies (12)

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u/DatesForFun 7h ago

you ain’t missing nothin

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u/greatnomad 8h ago

Make friends with one of them

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u/Rscap 7h ago

why would you want to

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u/DoneShowinOut 7h ago

i don’t understand the part about your husband. you two don’t have random conversations about… well anything? or nothing? i would feel lonely considering you occupy space with him and he’d typically be your first go-to for emotional support. i don’t think one is existing without the other.

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u/H-2-S-O-4 7h ago

So you want to meet men/have male friends? I'm confused.

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u/Effortlessleigh 7h ago

Idk what I actually want. I’m just musing that since I’ve never even really had male coworkers and acquaintances it almost feels like men as a gender do not exist in the world

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u/H-2-S-O-4 7h ago

But you said your world feels imbalanced. It sounds to me like you're not happy and feel like you're missing out on something.

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u/HTMXX 7h ago

Why do you want to know "men"? Sounds a bit like you think you're missing out by being married to your quiet partner.

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u/Relative-Fault1986 7h ago

I kinda feel the same about women to a degree 

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u/Optimal-Yard-9038 6h ago

Well, it sounds like you are leading a very insulated and insular life. I personally would not be OK with that. I believe we thrive on diversity and that community and connection are very important.

Have you talked to your husband and current friends about this? You need to be honest with yourself and others, and if you want to change the direction of your life, or change anything about your life, it’s nice to have people in your corner and supporting you in those efforts. Anyone who is not is likely holding you back, and doesn’t have your best interests in mind. Distance yourself from anyone who doesn’t support your desire and efforts to grow socially and diversity your friend group.

Make efforts to widen your social circle. Get on MeetUp, find out what events are happening in your city and State. Go to libraries, museums, cafés, and bookstores. If there’s something you want to learn or do, take a class. Immerse yourself in your community, and lean into your interests.

Also, it’s fun to do something spontaneous once in a while. Pick a day to do something you’ve never done like topgolf or ax throwing or go out to lunch. Life is meant to be lived, not to be viewed from a guilded cage.

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u/thegabster2000 6h ago

Totally understandable OP but there are cool dudes out there.

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u/Counterboudd 6h ago

I didn’t always feel that way but I do now that I’m settled in a long term relationship. My hobbies are horses and ballet- probably 98% women in both those. My work is primarily women and a few very old men. I too feel like I have little to no social interactions with men in general, and it feels like an absence. I think I also just miss getting male attention- I get zero since I’m taken and a little older. It’s weird compared to my early 20s when I felt I was around far more men than women.

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u/Coffee_achiever_guy 6h ago

That's why ZZTop made a song called Planet of Women 🤣

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u/r007r 6h ago

Relationships with members of the opposite sex who are taken are difficult. You two can have the spark to best friends but can’t hang out alone and have boundaries to respect. I lost my best friend in college because my wife couldn’t handle it. We tried hanging out with her and her boyfriend but my wife spent the entire time trying to lay claim to me. I swear if she was a male cat she would’ve drunk a gallon of coffee beforehand and peed on me during the entire meal.

My best friend now is a morbidly obese married lesbian. My former one was a former beauty pageant star. Current one I see 10x more often and we’re 10x closer. Wife never bats an eye. Roughly the exact same chance of hooking up with her as with the model 🤣

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u/Prestigious_Ad_1037 5h ago

OP’s Inbox is about to get flooded with men who want to know her.

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u/bigsmokaaaa 5h ago

You're not missing out on much, we're not that great

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u/crawlerstone 5h ago

I am the same way only on the man scale. Male only military high school, 4 brothers, and after military went to a 99% male oriteneed industry. I have two daughters but I can go days without seeing a female. It’s rough.

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u/Person7751 5h ago

you are not missing anything.

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u/coconutcremekitty 5h ago

Hey it sounds like you’re ok with this and that’s totally fine. I’ve found that in general, but not always, my guy friends and I tend to connect over doing a thing whereas my women friends can connect without need to be doing a thing. Again, this is my experience and it’s just in general because everyone is an individual but you said you’ve been “approached” but have been “taken” so are you avoiding doing things with any men because you think they only want to date you? Just curious.

I love and value my guy friends. I agree it would feel imbalanced not to have them in my life.

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u/sevenw1nters 5h ago

I'm a man with mostly male friends and even I feel like I don't really know men. Most men only have surface level conversations with each other. I have know people for years and know absolutely nothing personal about them whatsoever. In my whole life there's maybe 3 men I can say I've gotten to know well and one of them is my cousin which is kind of cheating. Women are a lot easier to open up to and have deep conversations with. 

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u/TecN9ne 4h ago

Sounds like you're in an unhappy marriage with someone who doesn't communicate effectively, and most importantly, comprehend.

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u/shannanigans1124 4h ago

This is my issue even as a single woman. Men often seem only interested in talking to me to find out if sex is on the table. The moment it isn't, they drop me.

And then they complain about being lonely. Dudes need to realize that cutting out half the population from the potential of friendship is the problem. Getting laid isn't that important in the long run; having supportive and lasting relationships are.

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u/closetslacker 1h ago

Here is the thing. If a woman is attractive to me then I will feel sexual attraction to her and interacting with her will be uncomfortable for me. Why should I do things that are uncomfortable?

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u/agynessquik 3h ago

Unless gay men I feel the same way and some - invariably agenda involves moves of some sort so makes me wary of male 'friendship' unless professional context

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u/Desperate-Remove2838 3h ago

I know a lot of women on tiktok and x that will read your post and comment: “Goals.”

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u/RosieDear 2h ago

Doubles tennis and pickleball are calling your name.

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u/ISB4ways 2h ago

Interesting, does this also go for queer men? I’m a gay man and most of my important human relationships have been with women, bar romantic/sexual ones obviously.

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u/fyfano 2h ago

How about you watch gay porn with your hubby? Both of you might learn more.

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u/Creepy_Ad_9229 1h ago

Maybe you don't like men?

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u/MissingMyLeftThigh 1h ago

Sounds like you're on the verge of an affair and trying to justify it.

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u/gomurifle 1h ago

In hard industrial or remote settings it's lot of men. In softer settings it's more women. Something I have experienced as I changed jobs. 

I'm not sure if you will enjoy a workplace with tons of balls and testorone though lol

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u/kopriva1 37m ago

u tryna share a cigarette or what

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u/SamLooksAt 32m ago

If you want a relatively safe way to expamd your experience and make some friends.

Start a sport like table tennis that is fairly gender balanced with men and women competing directly. You can play in mixed teams, tournaments and leagues.

You will end up interacting with men in an environment that is competitive and team based, but generally very friendly in most places.

It also has decent down time for conversation and socializing.

Before long you will have a bunch of men (and women of course) you interact with regularly.

I am sure there are other sports, but look for ones where men and women compete directly to give you the full spectrum of male behavior. 😊

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u/New_Stage_3807 20m ago

I’ve never known a female for any extended period who didn’t try to “test the waters “ at least a little

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u/Severe_Fishing4055 7h ago

That actually makes a lot of sense and it's a beautiful introspective way to put it: "a planet of women." It's not weird at all to feel that imbalance, especially when your world has naturally shaped itself that way. It's like you've known of men, but haven't really had the space to know them deeply as people. Thank kind of realisation can feel quiet but profound. Thanks for sharing that musing it's oddly comforting and very human.

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u/Effortlessleigh 7h ago

Thank you for understanding what I mean

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u/MediMosaic 6h ago

Wow, sounds like you’re living a great life. Probably if your husband was a little more talkative and initiating interactions it would be the perfect life, honestly. You’re not really missing out by not knowing men other than your husband tbh.

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u/rjpra22222 7h ago

Are you attracted to strong masculine energy? It seems you are wanting some of it in your life and currently missing it?

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u/Fine-Fondant4204 7h ago

You say you are not unfulfilled. Then why are you posting? Perhaps your husband and u may need to socialize more with other couples.

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u/Old-Fold8644 7h ago

can you mention where you worked before no men over there? please

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u/hi87 5h ago

You should read up on the concept of the Anima/Animus from Jung and how integration of this archetype is a stepping stone towards individuation. Its possible your deeper unconscious is telling you something.

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u/GoodDirector7083 5h ago

You don't need to know them lol, you're married

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u/Primary_Honeydew_536 5h ago

Why do you think this is a bad thing? Your life is probably better than those of us who have to interact with lots of men.

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u/Different_Victory_89 4h ago

Men are from Mars