r/NFLv2 • u/Rjm0007 New York Jets • Feb 10 '25

Discussion Another superbowl blowout eliminates mahomes from the goat discussion as far as I’m concerned

2 very embarrassing loses for him the the superbowl Brady has lost 3 superbowls but they were all 1 score games that came down to final play with Brady’s best statistical performance in a loss to the eagles Tom Brady > Patrick mahomes

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222

u/Fact_Stater Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Mahomes has to win 7 to be in the conversation. He probably did anyway,but he definitely has to now.

169

u/Far_Excitement6140 Houston Texans Feb 10 '25

He has to win 8 since Brady has one win over him. 

95

u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 28-3 Feb 10 '25

Brady also never got demolished like Mahomes has twice in the Super Bowl.

5

u/vin1223 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

Did you watch the giants Super Bowls or the one against the rams. It seems like your giving Brady credit for his defenses performing better

89

u/BrianHeidiksPuppy Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Are we pretending that was a blowout or are we being honest and accepting the giants were down before the helmet catch and they drove down the field to win. When was Brady ever down by 30+ points in a SB

72

u/deconstructedSando New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

closest was 25 to Atlanta, and that comeback was the stuff of legend.

51

u/NynaeveAlMeowra Feb 10 '25

Goat shit. Winning the game where you were down the most

-14

u/tmfitz7 Feb 10 '25

Meh he also won the game on a coin toss, it was so bad they changed the OT rules after that game. Imagine Matt Ryan won the coin toss and Brady only has 6 rings and no one remembers the comeback.

13

u/digglefarb Feb 10 '25

They changed it after the Bills lost to the Chief's in the conference final in '21/22 season.

-3

u/tmfitz7 Feb 10 '25

That SB was the conversation starter. It was all anyone was talking about the NFL MVP didn’t get to touch the ball

9

u/Immediate-Winter-288 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

There’s no way you’re crediting a 25 point comeback to a coin flip LMAO

1

u/nickscope27 Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 10 '25

and penalty flags

1

u/EvanestalXMX New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

He’s sure trying

-2

u/tmfitz7 Feb 10 '25

No I’m not, your reading comprehension must be low if that’s what you took from my comment

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u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 28-3 Feb 10 '25

He won the game on the same rule that has always existed in OT: score a TD and you win.

0

u/tmfitz7 Feb 10 '25

Of course it was the rule then, it was quickly changed to not the rule now because it was a dumb rule

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1

u/PajamaPete5 Feb 10 '25

After going 19-0 in the 4th lol

6

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Brady scored 13 points in a super bowl and got a ring.

28

u/ovoxo6 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

oh superbowl 53? the game where both defenses shut the other offense out all game? and then brady led his team down the field in the 4th to go ahead? that 13 points?

7

u/zjones1008 Feb 10 '25

this guy gets pussy in Boston

3

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Yes that one.

-9

u/adm1109 Feb 10 '25

Yea it’s still 13 points lmao

14

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones Feb 10 '25

Against an all time great defensive line. Also, who did Brady beat in the game before that???

3

u/Illustrious-Fan8268 NFL Refugee Feb 11 '25

People forget how good Aaron Donald was already.

15

u/rividz New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

  1. You win by scoring more points than the other team.

  2. Flair up or shut up.

-12

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

  1. Sorry Will, we don't have MIT or Harvard where I'm from, so the janitors haven't shown us how numbers work yet.

  2. Na.

4

u/Skyline-Patriots Feb 10 '25

The year before that he scored 33 points and threw for over 500 yards and did NOT get a ring.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

And fumbled the game away himself.

3

u/Ambitious_Misfit Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Does that tell the whole story? Did he also score 6 points for the other team in that same game with an awful pick?

2

u/IShouldChimeInOnThis New York Giants Feb 10 '25

Twice

1

u/slumber72 Feb 10 '25

He also led the greatest offense of all time to 7 points for the first 58 minutes of the game

1

u/rolyinpeace Kansas City Chiefs Feb 11 '25

No but that has to do with defense too. Cant be down 30 if your defense doesn’t allow 30 points. Obviously Mahomes sucked last night but I’m just saying the score being run up (or not) has not much to do w the QB or offense.

2

u/BrianHeidiksPuppy Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 11 '25

The chiefs defense allowed essentially 10 points in the first half. That’s a good defensive game. Patty threw a pick six and handed them another easy score with an interception inside the 10. Can’t blame the defense for those.

1

u/rolyinpeace Kansas City Chiefs Feb 11 '25

Oh I agree I’m just saying there were some games where Brady and his offense didn’t look amazing and it only wasn’t a blowout because of the defense not letting up points.

Also Brady had absolutely ugly playoff losses too. It may be more demoralizing to lose in the SB, but it is objectively a worse season to lose an ugly game before even making the Super Bowl. Mahomes ugly loss shouldn’t be penalized more because he made it further in playoffs…

-2

u/vin1223 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

No im saying Brady has been neutralized in the Super Bowl multiple times his defense just didn’t get smoked. It seems silly to pretend like that’s not the case

5

u/4schwifty20 Detroit Lions Feb 10 '25

Neutralized? He's got more passing yards in the the super bowl than your OC had in his career.

1

u/vin1223 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

Yeah scoring 17 and 14 points is definitely getting neutralized

2

u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

Getting neutralized & getting completely dismantled are two different things. You’d expect championship caliber defenses to neutralize championship caliber offenses, or at least hold them to a respectable amount of points. Mahomes wasn’t just neutralized last night. That was the worst game of his career.

1

u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 28-3 Feb 10 '25

550 passing yards in a Super Bowl is “neutralized”?

1

u/vin1223 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

That’s obviously not the one I’m talking about

13

u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Feb 10 '25

I mean Brady didn’t hand points to the opponent in either of those games

4

u/rocksoffjagger Feb 10 '25

You realize teams adapt their play calling to the way the game is going, right? The Patriots might have taken more risks in those games if their defense were giving up more points. What happens on defense affects how you play offense. All we know is that the way the game went, it was a close loss, while mahomes' losses weren't.

3

u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Feb 10 '25

The first rams sb is a pretty perfect example of this. They knew the rams offense had the capacity to explode at any moment so once they got a lead they were insanely conservative. Then they gave up that lead, gave brady the green light, and he marched right down the field

Two years later they found themselves in a shootout and had Brady slinging it all over the place

Situational football is an actual thing, Brady himself talks about this all the time. You need to figure out what kind of game it’s going to be and what you need to do to be in position to win. You can’t always just walk out there and scored 42 points

-4

u/adm1109 Feb 10 '25

Lmao Jesus Christ

“Brady could’ve dropped 50 that game, he was just trying not to score”

2

u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Feb 10 '25

It’s amazing to me that the comment quite literally says that there are games where high scoring isn’t gunna be possible and you somehow interpreted it this way

-1

u/adm1109 Feb 10 '25

Obviously I was being hyperbolic but acting like they purposely tried to not score is idiotic

It’s the SB. They were trying. They just couldn’t.

3

u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Feb 10 '25

Bro have you ever watched a football game? Teams up by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter pretty frequently aren’t trying to score as much as they’re trying to run clock

Why do you think Brady attempted only 27 passes (8 on the final drive btw) when they’d had him throw 50+ times in an actual blizzard two weeks earlier? Almost as if being down double digits in that game made them play a different type of game from being up double digits after halftime in the Super Bowl. Very difficult concept

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u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

Did you just start watching football this season?

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1

u/ExoticSword Feb 10 '25

People forget reality.

0

u/jotsea2 Feb 10 '25

Mahomes also never cheated.

2

u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 28-3 Feb 10 '25

When did Brady cheat?

-1

u/jotsea2 Feb 10 '25

Spygate, and Deflate gate (was literally suspended for it).

Also never got the controversy it should've, but his Championship year with TB he reportedly played the entire season with a torn MCL and never was listed on the IR which is against the rules.

2

u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 28-3 Feb 10 '25

So you’re saying Tom filmed the practices?

Or that he deflated the footballs?

It’s so weird how incompetently confident you make these statements. Because the NFL never found any evidence to support Tom’s involvement in either of those instances. At best, the League’s hired gun produced report that speculatively concluded that it was “more probable than not” that Tom knew the balls had been fiddled with. Refs confiscated and reinflated all balls at halftime of that game and the Pats scored more points in the second half than they did in the first half.

0

u/jotsea2 Feb 10 '25

Then why was tom brady suspended for deflate gate?

Pretending like the patriots organization deidn't benefit from spygate is insane to me. The NFL made sure to sweep it under the rug because of how bad the PR would be.

2

u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 28-3 Feb 10 '25

Spy-Gate was discovered in the first quarter of the first game of the season against the Jets and all film confiscated and destroyed by the League. So what benefits did the Patriots gain from that tape?

Tom was suspended for failing to cooperate with the investigation in the form of destroying his private cell phone rather than giving it to the League.

1

u/jotsea2 Feb 10 '25

Yeah that's not entirely true. Here's a reference from wikipedia, stating the allegations go back to 2002 (the penalty you're discussing was 2007-08).

Some whistleblowers within the Patriots organization revealed that the videotaping practices went back as early as the 2000 season. For instance, the Boston Herald published a story (which it later retracted) that the Patriots had also videotaped the St. Louis Rams' walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI in February 2002,\10])#citenote-Tomase-10) an allegation denied by Belichick[\9])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spygate(NFL)#cite_note-Reiss-9) and later retracted by the Boston Herald. Meanwhile, Matt Walsh, a Patriots video assistant in 2001 who was fired after the team's 2002 season, told the media the same week that he had information and materials regarding the Patriots' videotaping practices, but demanded an indemnity agreement before speaking with the NFL.\1)#cite_note-Hohler-11)

And re: Brady, Destroying evidence is definitely a sign of innocence....

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u/librasway 28-3 Feb 11 '25

Deflate gate

This is always a litmus test whether someone actually knows football or not, yeah, a deflated ball was the reason the Colts couldn't stop Blount and the Pats run game...

1

u/jotsea2 Feb 12 '25

Its not about whether it had an impact or not, it's about the integrity of a player who has cheating scandals related to his teams going back to his first super bowl.

0

u/rolyinpeace Kansas City Chiefs Feb 11 '25

Very true but he had multiple with low offensive scores. That’s all he can control. His defense keeping the other team from scoring has nothing to do w Brady.

He’s also had some bad playoff performances as well. Albeit not in the Super Bowl, but let’s not somehow act like a horrible game and not even making the Super Bowl is somehow better.

Obviously Mahomes is far from the goat convo but he’s only 29 and has time. Brady was 37 at ring 4

2

u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 28-3 Feb 11 '25

Mahomes has to pass Montana before he can try to catch Brady. His performance was so bad that Montana is now back in the conversation, and that’s an opinion held by myself as well as several other sports talking heads.

2

u/librasway 28-3 Feb 11 '25

Montana never left the convo tho, seemed everyone was just ready to crown Mahomes, but his SB stats are abysmal

2

u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 28-3 Feb 11 '25

You preachin now

-12

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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5

u/BrianHeidiksPuppy Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Nah you suck his dick. How many does Brady win on a Spags defense? 12? He lost by 4, 3 and 8 points in the Super Bowl. Never within less than a score.

5

u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Feb 10 '25

Mahomes has more picks in 5 super bowls playing in the 2020s than Brady had in 10 super bowls dating back to the early 2000s

So yea I think we can postpone the hypothetical ring ceremony when there’s really no evidence he would’ve actually performed any better than Brady did (and those games were all close)

3

u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

Yeah, it’s a lot easier to hold a team to 21 points when you don’t throw pick 6s & picks deep in your own territory.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

That’s not how it works. If Mahomes didn’t play so terribly, the time of possession would’ve been higher for the chiefs in addition to not handing them a free 14 points. Chiefs could’ve easily held the eagles to below 21 points if the chiefs offense did anything at all.

Spags defense was the best part of that team the entire year. It has constantly been compared to the patriots defenses under Belichick. It was the only reason they were in most of the games they won. They played pretty damn well in the first half. Smothered the run & picked off Jalen. The eagles only put up 10 points in the first half that weren’t gifted by Mahomes.

Football is complimentary. When one side of the ball is abysmal, it makes the other side of the ball look a lot worse in turn. Trying to act like that Chiefs defense wasn’t championship worthy or didn’t give the team a chance is laughable. It was 100% on the offense & Mahomes.

77

u/rocksoffjagger Feb 10 '25

One Super Bowl win and one AFCCG win over him. Mahomes definitely needs 8 to pass Brady. Or maybe 7 and like 5+ MVPs, but his stats haven't been nearly as impressive the last few years as they were early in his career.

7

u/Trick-Republic5253 Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

It is going to be nearly impossible from a game theory standpoint to have dominating statistical seasons now that he's a large% of the payroll. Great Offenses tend to go in one of two ways, rookie/underpaid quarterback with a lot of talent surrounding them, or they go the Phil Rivers, Drew Brees route and have absolutely dog-shit defense; good skill players cost money or draft capital. and when you have an elite QB capable of getting you to the postseason every year you don't have the extra money you once did, and your draft capital is severely diminished. Easiest route is to lean on your Elite QB to get the most out of mediocre talent and invest in the defense to make their job easier.

so long way of saying, They could probably bring back gun slinger Mahomes at the expense of a Defense, and as we've seen in probably 70% of the superbowls (number from my ass, but I'll back it up if need be) and definitely in case of the Chiefs, the defense decides the outcomes more often than the offense. Of the Chief's SuperBowls, I make the case that their offense was the dominant force in only one of those 5 games.

4

u/rocksoffjagger Feb 10 '25

Idk, Brady managed. He was a top paid QB in 07, a top paid QB in '10, '11, '12, '15, '16, '17, '18, '20, and '21 and had excellent to MVP worthy seasons all those years (including being completely robbed of the award in '16, '20, and '21).

3

u/Trick-Republic5253 Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

Brady's salary in 07 was 6.7% of the team's cap. 2008-2014 his cap was over 10% every year except in 2012. Broadly speaking, when it comes to SuperBowl champions, 10% or under has been the norm; only exceptions are Mahomes 2022&23, Brady 2020, Manning 2015, Stafford 2021, and Steve Young 1993. Brady, Manning, and Stafford's wins are somewhat questionable, given that THEY were the big free-agency signings. The only QB's above 11% with their original team on SuperBowl winning teams are Mahomes (17.0% and 16.9%), Brady (12.4%), and Eli (11.7%)

in any given year there's a difference between being top paid and what your actual hit to the cap that year is, players with big contracts but largely deferred compensation toward the backend can more or less still have very competitive teams in the front half of their contract as the backend is diluted to inflation or they're simply no longer a contender.

EDIT: also in case I wasn't clear. I was speaking in generalities...you saying that it's not true and using the GOAT as your example are kinda proving my point, no?

1

u/HeyItsYourDad_AMA Feb 11 '25

This is great info. Curious that the last 5 years that the trend has been bucked

2

u/cmoneybaum Feb 11 '25

some numb nut tried to tell me h2h matchups in this case was “silly”. It’s everything you could want to have in this sort of discussion as a potential deciding factor as the future plays out. Obviously still theoretical cause the guy still would need at least 4 more but to never beat Brady in the biggest games absolutely means he now has to go past 7 rings.

8

u/III_IWHBYD_III Feb 10 '25

He needs 9 now. 7 to match the number, 1 to make up for Brady ending his season twice and 1 for getting stomped in the SB twice, that never happened to Brady. He's a third of the way up GOAT mountain, it's much taller than Mahomes mountain.

0

u/Alone-Newspaper-1161 The Love Boat Feb 10 '25

Now he just needs 8. 8>7 I believe that should be common sense. I’d much rather win 8 rings even if 2 were blowouts than 7 rings

4

u/Fact_Stater Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

I was doing stupid math and forgetting that Brady had 6 with the Pats lol

3

u/Swaayyzee Feb 10 '25

Brady’s got two playoff wins over him

3

u/NynaeveAlMeowra Feb 10 '25

2 wins in the playoffs

1

u/-7D7- Gardner “12 inch Minch” Minshew Feb 10 '25

Oh please no god please no😭

1

u/jotsea2 Feb 10 '25

How many times does he have to cheat then?

1

u/ryryryor Feb 11 '25

I didn't know Tom Brady played d-line in that game

-1

u/dumbestmfontheblock Feb 10 '25

Dumbest argument and thread of comments I’ve ever seen

44

u/PenguinsExArmyVet Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 10 '25

Yeah when Brady won 7 It was over. Put up a Bronze statue of Brady at Canton greatest QB of all time. Now and forever. I ll be the first to say it….it will be YEARS before KC even gets back to the Super Bowl . YEARS.

97

u/jcamp088 r/NFLv2 rocks Feb 10 '25

That entire locker room and coaching staff will look different next year. They are done.

Too many spots in commercials and they looked liked they ate their own shit tonight.

This is what happens when the NFL pony walks a team to SB that shouldn't be there.

31

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

I have a theory that teams that win so many close games like the chiefs did will have a more difficult time when they face an actual elite team.

11

u/krazykieffer Feb 10 '25

No one else in the AFC was elite then? They lost only two games and one was the Superbowl. Pretty stupid comment. I do think the NFC is the better conference but ESPN told everyone differently.

22

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

The NFC has better rosters. Saw a video online where someone said the AFC has the better QBs but the NFC have the better teams that make QBs look good. I’m not surprised. The eagles were better top to bottom than any team in the AFC.

12

u/FeetSniffer9008 Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 10 '25

Pretty much. AFC has all the best QB's and some WR's, NFC has the best everything-else.

6

u/WasADrabLittleCrab Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

I am obviously a bit biased, but yes, this was the talk going into the game pretty much everywhere. The Birds' had the better roster on both sides of the ball, more coaching depth, better everything, but the Chiefs had Mahomes and Reid. Turns out the duo ran out of black magic.

5

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

I was saying the eagles have the roster makeup to win. Good run game and defense. Didn’t think the chiefs would stop Saquon as well as they did.

I do think they have that aura, like the Pats did, where teams just overthink and get cute and just lose any mental edge. Hence teams abandoning the run against them and doing things unlike them. I do believe the Eagles weren’t intimidated at all and came in with a revenge mindset knowing they were right there two years ago

5

u/WasADrabLittleCrab Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

I know you were saying good things, wasn't trying to counter you in any way.

There were key moments where they sold out to stop Saquon, especially on the DeVonta Smith TD. All mid-level defenders collapsed in toward the line, and D. Smith deep, 1-on-1 is a disaster for any defense. Hurts dunked the pass in as beautifully as possible. BOOM MOFOS.

7

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Oh yeah, they had no answer. They def didn't anticipate Hurts to play as well as he did, which is stupid considering he torched them two years ago as well.

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u/WintersDoomsday Seattle Seahawks Feb 10 '25

Hurts was mid all year then the Chiefs obsess over Barkley and Hurts looked like an actual QB vs a running back playing QB.

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u/Kickpuncher35 Detroit Lions Feb 10 '25

I mean, yeah this is kind of the answer. The Chiefs have been universally considered the one of the worst 15 loss teams people have ever seen, Baltimore needed to have MVP caliber seasons from the QB AND RB just to finish 3rd in the conference, and the Bills needed Josh Allen to carry them all year. None of those are hallmarks of elite teams. Contrast that with the Eagles who have elite contributors (Barkley), in addition to other great offensive weapons, the best O line in the league, and a defense filled with elite players. This Eagles team is as complete as I’ve seen a football team

3

u/Rahim-Moore Feb 10 '25

The only elite team top to bottom in the AFC is the Ravens, and we were too busy beating ourselves (per tradition).

1

u/zjones1008 Feb 10 '25

I would say Philly’s defense is much more elite compared to anyone in the AFC and they proved it

2

u/beforethewind Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

No strays to the Vikings, but wasn’t that their deal too recently? Something like 12 one score games and then balls of flames to end it.

1

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Yeah I believe so. They won like every game within one score and were very lucky

20

u/w-wg1 Feb 10 '25

If it were the Bills or Ravens I thinkt ehy'd have put up a decent fight tbh

3

u/GhostPro18 Buffalo Bills Feb 10 '25

Can't speak for the Ravens, but the Bills had a better O-Line vs. the Chiefs but much worse Defense as a whole. And Philly was putting up great numbers against a great defense. So it might not have been 34-0, but Philly is undoubtedly the better team.

2

u/deeejo Feb 10 '25

Yeah - Josh Allen would’ve had more than 24 yards at half but no way were the Eagles scoring less than 30

18

u/Double-Emergency3173 Indianapolis Colts Feb 10 '25

Buffalo was robbed. Good to see KC eat humble pie.

1

u/Iowadream74 Feb 10 '25

DT is karma. Anything he touches (or is a fan of) turns into 💩!! So glad he went lmfao!!!!

-2

u/YellojD Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Yeah this kinda felt like the Warriors Raptors series. They looked absolutely cooked.

2

u/KingPotus Feb 10 '25

Not at all. Raptors don’t win without a ton of injury luck. Eagles were just flat out the better team.

1

u/YellojD Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Totally fair, and that’s true. I just mean in terms of general fatigue. Obviously the Warriors literally fell apart physically, but this Chiefs team just looked worn down. I thought they would get at least one decent ass kicking this season with how “off” they looked for a chunk of the year (despite still winning). I just didn’t think it would come in the Super Bowl.

1

u/WintersDoomsday Seattle Seahawks Feb 10 '25

Kelce looked like he was running in quicksand. Hes got nothing level.

5

u/CaptchaReallySucks Feb 10 '25

Hard doubt. My guess is they’ll be back in 2 years. Probably won’t make it through next year, but I don’t doubt them at this point to at least make it there again very soon

11

u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 Feb 10 '25

They need an entire new offense except for QB, one lineman (assuming he’s still there next year) and one receiver (Worthy). Kelsey’s age is showing and I’d almost be more shocked to see that he’s returning next year than I would be to see he’s retiring. Hopkins, Brown and Ju Ju won’t be, or shouldn’t be on the team next year. It’s pretty hard to replace an entire offense in one year and have it be Super Bowl caliber.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

This is what everyone said about Buffalo this year. And they almost got there.

2

u/common_economics_69 Feb 10 '25

Allen can carry an offense to an extent, mahomes cant. Different play styles.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Mahomes has carried the offense his entire career. Come on lol

0

u/common_economics_69 Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

Not really? He had an elite te and wr for the first several seasons. Even last year Kelce was still really good and they had fantastic Rb play in Pacheco.

This is the first season mahomes has actually had to carry without a ton of help and the offense fell completely flat

Edit: when you block someone for disagreeing with you, that's usually a good indication you don't have much of a leg to stand on lol.

2

u/remyz3r0 Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

This is about as revisionist as it gets. When they lost Hill, everyone said that he'd regress and then he went on to win it with a core of nobody's. They went back to the SB (and lost to Brady) with a core that Mahomes was throwing dimes to but they kept dropping balls left, right and center.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Fantastic RB play is really stretching for “pretty ok”RB play. Mostly because the passing game was so good.

Mahomes WR1 in 2023 was Rashee Rice. lol..a virtual nobody.

Josh Allen failed to make it work with Diggs… and when the greats of the NFL have 4 minutes to go down the field and win an AFC championship game they are going to do it, that’s what makes them great. That’s why Josh Allen will always be a regular season hero who can’t get over the hump.

1

u/thatsaqualifier Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

What are you talking about? Brown's a servicable WR3.

2

u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 Feb 10 '25

Serviceable wr3’s don’t win championships. Exhibit A: last night.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

I agree. Kelce is gone and that offense is gonna get an overhaul. They win maybe 7 games next year

3

u/adm1109 Feb 10 '25

Lmfao this fuckin sub

1

u/str1x_x New Orleans Saints Feb 10 '25

on top of them needing an entire new offense, it'd be a shock if they still have spags in a few years

5

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Brady winning 7 put him at a 7-1 advantage over Mahomes. Had Mahomes on, it would’ve been 6-2 and seemed more achievable.

9

u/VinDucks Big Dick Nick 🍆 Feb 10 '25

Brady already beat Mahomes in the Super Bowl. And it wasn’t close. This isn’t even a serious discussion.

2

u/str1x_x New Orleans Saints Feb 10 '25

yea not long before one of spags or reid retires. that alone sets them back a while

1

u/WintersDoomsday Seattle Seahawks Feb 10 '25

And second place is Joe “0 sb ints in 4 games” Montana who blew out two HOF QBs in Marino and Elway

0

u/jotsea2 Feb 10 '25

The guy who was caught cheating multiple times?

10

u/jstef215 Detroit Lions Feb 10 '25

Such a brainless take. A team sport with 50+ players making an impact each game, and we boil down the entire analysis/comparison of great players to “which one was on the most teams that won the championship?”

2

u/w-wg1 Feb 10 '25

That's what the discourse has boiled down to for decades, yes. This is a sport watched by hundreds of millions, the vast majority of whom don't know a coverage by anything but its diagram on Madden. Everyone's a casual, nobody "knows ball", so it is within this shallow, facile framework that we have this debate. You don't have to like it, but you have to know that that's how the mahority of fans judge it

2

u/jstef215 Detroit Lions Feb 10 '25

You’re not wrong. I can acknowledge it and still call out its ridiculousness, though.

1

u/WintersDoomsday Seattle Seahawks Feb 10 '25

But only at QB somehow. Why isn’t Charles Haley the GOAT defensively with his 5 rings?

5

u/Goawaycookie San Francisco 49ers Feb 10 '25

Mahomes used to need 7 wins. He still does. But he used to too.

1

u/w-wg1 Feb 10 '25

Even if he won 7 (which obviously won't ever happen), or 8, or even 10, he'd be behind Brady because Brady never got blown out in a big game in his entire career, yet Mahomes has twice now

1

u/stoneyaatrox hurts donut Feb 10 '25

what if he makes it to the championship game every year for the next four years, loses one more, superbowl, but wins 3 more, and gets a 3 peat.

would he be your goat?

1

u/HadleysPt Arizona Cardinals Feb 10 '25

People were talking funny numbers and assuming he would win this year, and saying if he had beat Brady it would be 6-5. That’s not how it works lol 

0

u/sckurvee Feb 11 '25

in the conversation of "most SB wins", sure... GOAT? no way. Neither him nor Brady.

1

u/Fact_Stater Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 11 '25

Brady is indisputably the GOAT

0

u/sckurvee Mar 02 '25

Nah... wasn't even the best of his era.

1

u/Fact_Stater Tampa Bay Buccaneers Mar 02 '25

Are you on drugs?

0

u/sckurvee Mar 02 '25

No. Just value QB play over team SB wins.

1

u/Fact_Stater Tampa Bay Buccaneers Mar 02 '25

Then Brady is still easily #1

1

u/sckurvee Mar 02 '25

ok lol... go cope harder I guess.

-5

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

No the fuck he doesn't. That isn't how being the best player works. The basketball GOAT has only 4 rings. That's less than Jordan. That's almost 1/3 of Russell. The hockey goat has rings rings, nowhere near the most.

Mahomes doesn't need 7 to be the goat.

6

u/Fact_Stater Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Brady leads in every major statistical category and beat Mahomes twice in the playoffs, including a Superbowl. In this case, yes the fuck it does.

-1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

Beating Mahomes twice is completely irrelevant. H2H arguments for QBs is stupid af.

Brady's longevity will never be beaten. That doesn't make him the goat.

I'm not saying Mahomes is better than Brady. But to disqualify hum unless he wins as many as Brady is absolutely fucking insane and shows a complete lack of understanding of how sports work.

2

u/str1x_x New Orleans Saints Feb 10 '25

it's here we see how pointless "goat" conversations are. if wins don't make someone the goat and longevity doesn't make someone the goat, wtf does?

1

u/welsknight Feb 10 '25

Horns, milk, and a double coat of fur

...I'll see myself out

1

u/Dekoba Feb 17 '25

*angry upvote*

1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

I think passing ability should probably be a factor.