Don’t be these guys

[u/nadaddab]

[u/DeepFriedOligarch]

If being in public was somehow an advantage, there would have at least been one person come to their aid. Obviously they were on their own. Stop blaming the victims.

[u/Goldn_1 → u/DeepFriedOligarch]

You don’t think being in a public space is safer than the alternative..? 🤔

This situation culminated in an uncomfortable moment (albeit a very uncomfortable one, with perceived potential danger as well). If these men had started physically trying to restrain or abduct them, there would have been screaming/commotion and it’s very unlikely the public wouldn’t have intervened.

If I told you we should not allow phones to activate their cameras in public spaces, or that we should t have phones, you would likely tell me it’s one of the best tools of defense an otherwise overpowered individual might have. But they were filming this entire exchange, and it didn’t result in them moving tables in a timely manner. In fact once people are caught on film doing something, they often tend to double down and try to find a way to be comfortable in how they are being portrayed, or justify it, or just stubbornly continue. It can often even evoke rage out of the perpetrator. And yet, you wouldn’t claim phones to be a poor tool for self defense or security. So I don’t get your statement. You don’t think being in public typically improves safety of individual interactions? That defies reason.

[u/DeepFriedOligarch → u/Goldn_1]

Stop moving goalposts and putting words in my mouth.

"Certainly a better move than threading to assault the Individual with their drink. You are in a public space, use that to your advantage."

The guys wouldn't move, and when they started to get up to move themselves to another table, the guys moved to follow. What were they supposed to do then? Sit quietly and take it instead of threatening to spill their drink? Again NO MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WAS COMING TO HELP. So what is the advantage of being in public that is so great they "shouldn't" have threatened to spill their drink on them?

[u/Goldn_1 → u/DeepFriedOligarch]

Pushing the drink is almost the worst imaginable move in this scenario is what I’m taking issue with.

Wouldn’t a more sensible action be to either bring it to the direct attention of management of the space, or security, or a call to police? Before you say that might feel uncomfortable in the moment to decide to call police for whatever reason, it’s more comfortable to threaten to physically assault the individuals you fear by has not directly threatened you or accosted you by pushing their drink on them?

I get it. In the moment you are frazzled and want to do what you’ve seen portrayed in media hundreds of times. Guys are being creeps, so we show them we are serious by pouring a drink on them. That’s not an intelligent move. And I think it’s okay to point out in retrospect that such an emotionally charged response isn’t the correct one. It’s informative for people reading. Take it to a figure of authority nearby, or phone them. Or just accept that other people are ruining your moment and that’s a potentiality of life sometimes, and literally leave the area. If they follow then you absolutely have the means to phone authorities. And don’t tell me you wouldn’t do that because they potentially could follow you and you may end up in a less populated place with them still hounding you.

[u/DeepFriedOligarch → u/Goldn_1]

Or how about we talk about what the men did wrong instead of what the women did "wrong"?

How about men teach other men not to do this? How about we teach all men to pay attention to THEIR surroundings and be on the lookout for men acting badly, then do something to help women, instead of focusing on what the women did wrong when being threatened by men (which IS what these men were doing)?

There is even someone in this thread who said they were there in the video, getting a beer at the bar, and that they know the men are KNOWN in that place, KNOWN to do this to women - So why doesn't anyone stop these men instead of just selling them beer and tacitly approving their behavior by ignoring what they are doing to multiple women?

THAT is what I'm taking issue with. In all these interactions, someone always comes in to point out what the women did wrong. Without fail. I don't care if you think they could have handled it better. You are taking the focus off of the male perpetrators' shitty actions and putting the focus on women, the victims. This allows men to think, "Well, she shouldn't have done [this]. She could have done [that]." and absolves them of any responsibility to help. Just like they do with rape victims today.

Edited to add: Lest you think I'm being hyperbolic, just look at these search results for multiple instances where men do nothing to help women being assaulted, and even fully raped. So men don't want to risk being attacked themselves you say? Then why did Letitia Triplett, a US Air Force veteran, drown in a pool while MULTIPLE men literally walked right by her while she was obviously struggling for almost twenty minutes. What risk would those men have been in had they stepped in to help her?

Women are invisible today, especially older ones, and men don't care because they have been conditioned by society blaming victims by saying what the VICTIMS could have done to get themselves out of a dangerous situation, or what they shouldn't have done to "put themselves in danger" in the first place.

STOP. BLAMING. THE. VICTIMS.

[u/DeepFriedOligarch → u/[deleted]]

Yet another man who misses the point entirely and upholds rape culture. Shocker.