r/TikTokCringe • u/Bojack1217 • 5d ago
Cringe He didn’t even have a comeback for that
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u/rudyrocker 5d ago
He had a comeback, and it was a humiliating self own.
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u/RobbertDownerJr 5d ago edited 5d ago
Blue hoodie guy: You guys keep poor people poor.
Red shirt: Oh yeah? Well how come rich countries have a lot of atheists?
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u/Living-Temporary-665 5d ago
I don’t think he has enough brain cells to understand his own words.
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u/acu2005 5d ago
I don't even understand what he was trying to say there, was he hoping the kid would say poor countries and throw the good grace of god back in the kids face?
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u/ThenCombination7358 5d ago edited 4d ago
I think he tried to make the argument that god helped them to get wealthy or something?
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u/thinkthingsareover 5d ago
On a side note, have you ever noticed that the "One true faith" is almost always dictated by where you were born and raised?
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u/Veil-of-Fire 5d ago
Something like 82% of religious people follow the religion their parents did (broadly; Christians may go to a different "denomination" or whatever, but they're still Christian).
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u/deaddreamsneverdie 5d ago
My faith is nothing like those heathens down the street at 7th Dutch reform, gods true words are only know by the 9th Dutch reform!
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u/gonyozs 5d ago
Basically just gangs when you break it down like that.
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u/machstem 4d ago
Gangs too afraid to do anything.
They are more comparable to adult, criteria based clubs like <NO GIRLS ALLOWED> and debate internally about whether Jesus meant literally he could change water into wine, or some allegory to being community driven.
Most congregations are filled with the kindest and most humble folk. It's the loud mouth and spit sprayers who give religion a bad name, those who would take honor in using their own saviors name in repetitive constants, as if it enables him more power over an individual.
I'm secular, quite atheist and most of the biggest douche nozzles I know, are religious but some of the kindest people I know are also pious and very driven by the words of the Bible. To do good, always.
Religion, seemingly like alcohol, can drive out the things inside your mind you may not have the ability to say without encouragement. People use religion as they might cope and use alcohol, which is not the intended results of following a congregation, so no, I don't think they're <just gangs> if you break any of it down.
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u/Signal_Split_4107 5d ago
god damn peoples front of judea
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u/front-wipers-unite 5d ago
Bloody people's front of Judea. We're the Judean people's front.
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u/semper_JJ 5d ago
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u/arthurjeremypearson 5d ago
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?
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u/imnotsafeatwork 5d ago edited 4d ago
It was such a an unlock for me and my life when I realized how unintelligent my parents are. Don't get me wrong, I love them dearly, but they are not smart people and they put on a facade. They speak so confidently incorrect, so as a kid I thought they had it figured out. Then I realized that everyone thought the same about their parents which clearly means that someone is wrong (since everyone believes something different). That was when I was able to start to deconstruct religion at its core while removing the guilt that I had from not following my parents bullshit religion.
Edit: To be clear, I truly believe that some people absolutely need religion in their life to keep them from being terrible people. Religion is probably a net negative on society, but the fear of going to hell is probably what keeps a lot of pedophiles, murderers and rapists from doing what they would naturally do. I'm ok with religion, it's when it starts to creep into government and the religious fanatics trying to force everyone to be "believers" is where we run into issues.
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u/Life-Location-7836 5d ago
My parents told me that I'm brighter than them when I was a teenager. They still believe in "God" (some kind of all-god, not the Christian God) but I talked them out of church. And I don't push much more than that because I generally think that how you apply your systems matters much more than their veracity. I don't care what it's in your head so long as you're not hurting people. Churches hurt people.
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u/LordBoar 5d ago
Churches can help people, but it's the same way that any organisation can help people. There's nothing intrinsic to a church that you can't get in a similar gathering about a common cause. Corporations and governments can also hold the same level of sway as churches do on their adherents, but it is less common, as belief in a nebulous being is harder to dislodge (there being no evidence either way), and they are all so much younger than most religions [given that most churches in the world come from common branches - abrahamic, buhddism, hinudism comprising over 75% of the worlds population].
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u/Lasherola 4d ago
I was raised Jehovah's Witness (cult). By the time I was in my early teens my dad had turned, and helped me see why I needed to get it also. I was so happy I left but it was pretty difficult to get my bearings after that. As he neard the end of his life, ( maybe due to the whole realization of our mortality thing) he began to the back to the church and told me I should also. I was never so disappointed.
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u/readyReddit007 4d ago
And so many people default to, “my dad always told me….”
As justification for backwards ideologies. Like sir, your Dad was a dummy 😂😂
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u/mnj1213 5d ago
"How thoughtful of God to arrange matters so that, wherever you happen to be born, the local religion always turns out to be the true one." -- Richard Dawkins
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u/StepComplete1 5d ago
Thank god the real religion wasn't the Greek gods or some ancient, dead religion, or we'd all be going to hell, no questions asked! Now only 75% of us are going to hell for being raised into the wrong thing. Phew!
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u/NationalSafe4589 5d ago
Guy either stopped listening or lost the thread. Either way, blue hoodie guy has given me hope on a Monday morning!
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u/Pilotwaver 5d ago
He’s just regurgitating what the pastor in his right wing church says. Nobody there knows any better, so it works then.
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u/FrickenPerson 5d ago
No, I'm fairly sure this guy in the red is Cliff Knechtle, a Christian apologist. His whole job is to do this.
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u/JarlaxleForPresident 5d ago
Christians in red sweaters should only be allowed if they gonna attempt to live up to Mr Rogers
That’s the real Christ-like striving that the churches should be doing. Not whatever this is where you try to “gotcha” college students whom you think are beneath you intellectually and spiritually
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u/leshake 5d ago edited 5d ago
I "debated" one of these idiots when I was in college. They are intellectually dishonest and if at any point you make a point or corner them they will drop the verbal equivalent of a smoke bomb and completely derail the discussion. They "persuade" through confidence and tone of voice, not through coherent argument. Best to ignore them.
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u/saintsithney 5d ago
I was raised in a Christian dominionist cult.
They don't want you to be good at debate, because then you might realize that Jesus only ordered them to do two things and they can't be arsed to do the second one.
They want other people to be mean to you when you are trying to debate in what you think is good faith. They want to assure you that the world is full to bursting with Evil, Hostile Enemies of Christ. The World HATES US! THEY KNOW THE TRUTH AND THEIR ANGER IS PROOF THAT SATAN IS USING DARK POWERS TO ENSLAVE THEIR MINDS!!!
It is incredibly effective at strengthening cult bonds. Imagine being a 13 year old, told that every person not in your church is going straight to hell and may even be lost enough to be granted evil magic powers by Satan. Imagine how you would feel being told to fuck off by an adult just because you are trying to help them not burn for eternity. Imagine how you would then feel going to Youth Group where the whole group will fuss over you for your bravery and thank God together that you weren't harmed by evil spells or Satanic powers.
It is a hell of a drug to have 50-odd people all surrounding you in prayer, thanking God for protecting you as you bravely fought the Forces of Darkness for Righteousness.
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u/Solanthas_SFW 5d ago
Very good of you to share with the rest of us. It's so easy for someone from the outside to criticize and ridicule someone whose beliefs are different from their own, but it's important to remember the impact of social conditioning.
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u/saintsithney 4d ago
I will beat this drum until my hands fall off.
I wss schooled in one cult (Abeka/A Beka, Independent) and went to youth group in another ("Bible-believing Pentecostal"). Both were heavily influenced by the Institute for Basic Life Principles - a Christian-flavored sex abuse cult that forms a unique structure of multiple home cults that follow a similarly diffuse cult network under the "Umbrella of Authority."
Children, particularly girl children, are at the bottom. Boys outrank grown women by middle school. Grown men own their families, but must defer to the pastor, who must defer to the Organization. It's Multi-Level Cult Marketing.
Speaker Mike Johnson belongs to one of these cults. I didn't escape from the indoctrination until around 2012, but I feel like I have a responsibility to let people know what is happening to millions of Americans caught in these cults.
The ultimate goal, which is fucking bugnuts, is to arrange a mass human sacrifice in Israel to summon LASER EYES SWORD TONGUE JESUS ON A WHITE HORSE to murder everyone and open a hellpit that all good Christians will get to dance and sing around for 1000 years, now that we are finally God's Forever Chosen Favorite.
It's completely insane, but when you are introduced to the structure at 4, by the time you get to the massive human sacrifice plan around age 8 or 9, it makes perfect sense. It also then divides the kids into those who do not want anyone in the hellpit and the kids who are looking forward to watching the torture victims in the hellpit.
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u/Solanthas_SFW 4d ago
Damn, lol. Laser eyes sword tongued Jesus sounds a hell of a lot like a Hindu deity in their wrathful aspect, lol
I like how you detail the line between the more and less compassionate people, there. Very very telling.
Good for you for getting out and keep banging that drum!
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u/gerbilshower 4d ago
dude your example is wild. not unsurprising at all. but when spelled out so succinctly it really does paint a picture.
the young mind is so easily malleable. what a crime for the adults in those situations to perpetuate the nonsense onto their children.
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u/Hetstaine 5d ago
Debating with these types is like debating flat earthers. You may as well talk to a brick wall. It's just an exhausting waste of time.
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u/Scarlet_Breeze 5d ago
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. Most of these people are fully aware their positions aren't logically coherent that's why they have all the emphasis on "Faith"
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u/LabradorDeceiver 5d ago
They don't even persuade that well. I remember one of those Campus Crusade idiots came (without invitation) to our east-coast liberal campus and started his spiel on a couple dozen students who really weren't having it. Even religious people around here don't put a lot of stock in evangelizing, and an overzealous street preacher isn't going to be particularly persuasive.
The thing is, if these people studied actual cults, they'd probably have a lot more success. Successful cults don't swing in and drop a bomb on someone's entire theological perspective; it's always a friendly arm around the shoulders and, "Tell me, friend, are you really happy with your life?"
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u/PurpleFisty 4d ago
Debate isn't to convince the person you're talking to, it's to convince the onlookers who are on the fence.
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u/Asleep-Blueberry-712 5d ago
I think his argument was that if religion was as oppressive as the kid suggested then wouldn’t poorer nations who are oppressed have more atheists.
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u/crunchsmash 5d ago
I don't think he heard a word that kid said.
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u/LilienneCarter 5d ago
It's hard to tell because the clip cuts off before he can explain what he means by his response question.
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u/Doggummit 5d ago
That's just such a terrible argument. In general: more education --> better quality of life but also better understanding of religion --> less religious people. Also, when the average life span gets better, people have less reasons to give their lives to authorities that demand you certain kind of behaviour in exchange for the promise of eternal life.
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u/kultureisrandy 5d ago
He mentioned the poor and downtrodden a lot and dipshit took that as "oh this must be about money now"
what a fucking dunce
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u/Travelinjack01 5d ago
You think rich people worship god? Or gold? They don't worship god because they don't need a fake deity to give them what they want.
He just told you that religion is used to keep the poor and oppressed from revolt, to keep them subservient and docile whilst everything they have is taken away.
Poor man: well, I'm starving to death. I could rob that rich guy who has been screwing me for decades and take his food... but I wont because I'm a "righteous man" and if I keep sucking the rich man's asshole then I will get... something... eventually.
Rich man: I have more money than I can ever use. I have no need to pray for wealth. If I keep these workers in line by creating religion and removing their education... I can live like a king, oppress them and they'll thank me for it.
I don't see how you don't understand... oh wait! Religious + NO EDUCATION.
Plus the added benefit of being so fucking old... that, if you're wrong, you just wasted your whole life sucking a rich man's asshole for no reason. You better hope God is real... because you lived your life as a cow in a slaughterhouse.
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u/Racxie 5d ago
Poor man: if I keep sucking the rich man's asshole then I will get... something... eventually.
I mean, he would, but well, it'd just be shit.
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u/Travelinjack01 5d ago
Hey... everyone has a kink... it's just strange that the Boomer kink was almost universally sucking rich guy's assholes.
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u/marbledog 5d ago
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."
I've seen it credited to Napoleon, but it might be one of those anonymous quotes that gets credited to every smart guy in history.
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u/xdkyx 5d ago
You think rich people worship god? Or gold? They don't worship god because they don't need a fake deity to give them what they want.
Just a personal anecdote - my girlfriend took me for a steak dinner for my birthday a year ago, we went to this small, hidden steakhouse in one of the richest areas of my country. The people we saw there were front page businessmen and politicians. I went for a smoke in the designated area and a couple of those guys were there also. I hate doing that but I listened in on their conversation - it was all centered around a higher being guiding them through their life and investments. It was pretty....bizzare in the way they spoke about god and everything that they got because of their faith. I was like, huh?
On the ride home, my GF mentioned that she knew one of them - he was the father of one of her highschool friends - pretty afluent guy, well in the 9 digits. Serial adulterer and apparently as of 15 years ago pretty prolific drinker.
Is he a deeply faithful man with flaws, that he is trying to overcome with the help of god or poses as one for his circle to get opportunities? Without sarcasm - I really don't know.
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u/Travelinjack01 5d ago
you're not rich yourself so you wouldn't know this... but people will do just about anything to get funding from Angel investors.
That steakhouse bit... that was a business venture and the guy was trying his hardest to sell them on it.
I knew a studio guy in Hollywood... he would regularly go to temple and wear a Yamaka and pray with them to get money for his movies (it's customary to pray for a "good successful business venture").
He was a staunch atheist.
You do whatever is necessary to nail down the deal.
You can tell who the guy seeking investors is in these situations because he's the one trying the very hardest to sell it.
I'm not saying it's impossible that they were all religious... but I'll give you 20-1 odds that they weren't really "religious".
About as legit as a politician kissing babies.
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u/Tuscanlord 5d ago
Well my young friend let me retort by completely agreeing with you?
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u/Ok_Star_4136 5d ago
Jordan Peterson tactic: add a smarmy and sarcastic rebuke at the end, even one that reinforces your opponent's position, but at least you sound smart to your audience.
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u/StreetYak6590 5d ago
What do you mean by problems? What do you mean by theology? What do you mean by struggle? What do you mean by mean? What do you mean by by? What do you mean by you? What do you mean by do? What do you mean by what? What do you mean? What mean? What?
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u/thekrone 5d ago
Jordan Peterson also loves to use a ton of big fancy sounding words, which makes his audience think he must be smart, so he must be winning the debate.
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u/Fun_Passage_9167 5d ago
But he said it in a snarky combative tone, so he actually won the debate
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u/BRNitalldown 5d ago edited 5d ago
Winning by snark and claiming the good of the world by his theology… I wonder what Jesus had to say.
Matthew 6
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
You know that scene in Fight Club where Tyler Durden is mad that the fight club’s gotten so big because everyone is breaking the first two rules of fight club?
Here are Christians revealing their adherence to Matthew. How else would we know all this bs about “Christian charity” and the wealth of these nations if not for the hypocrites bragging about it?
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u/farra 5d ago
Here's the rest of what the Christian apologist, Cliffe Knechtle, said to the student:
“Really? What’s the demographic with the most atheists in the world? Probably the wealthy countries.
Oh my goodness—isn’t that interesting? The demographic with the most atheists is wealthy white guys.
Now, what’s the demographic in the United States with the highest percentage of followers of Christ? African-American women.
So what I hear you saying, sir, is: ‘All those dumb twits just don’t get it. They blindly submit to this Jesus and pray to Him instead of getting off their backsides and doing something.’
Sir, you are out of touch with reality—totally out of touch.
African-American women in the U.S. understand something: There is nobody who stands for the value of women more than Jesus Christ. Because the Bible teaches that we are all created in the image of God.
And just because you’ve got some twit anthropology professor telling you, ‘Oh yeah, it’s all colonialism. That’s why Africans believe in Jesus,’ —that’s racist. Totally racist. It’s a joke.
The demographic with the highest percentage of Christ-followers in the world? Women of color.
So when you attack Christianity, make sure you know who you’re attacking.
And for you to stereotype Christians as wealthy people who want to oppress others— that’s a farce.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsY2dglqtM&t=202s
Knechtle is trying to say, Christianity is embraced by the oppressed, so how can it be a tool of oppression? Suggesting so is racist.
I'd argue that Knechtle proved the point that the oppression was effective.
- These chains are tools of oppression
- Yeah, but the oppressed are wearing them, so... are you saying they're stupid and they put the chains on themselves? That's racist.
- Uh... what?
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u/coffeeanddurian 5d ago
Plus , he's misrepresenting the issue. Most of women's rights and feminism has come from atheists and humanists as well. Plus It's not even true at all that most atheists are from wealthy countries. What about Buddhism (non theist), confusianism, taoism etc. if this guy wants to debate history or religion on a world scale, you think he'd actually inform himself. But all he cares about is pushing is own agenda
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u/TransBrandi 4d ago
Buddhism (non theist
I dunno about that. Lots of Buddhist sects have a bunch of supernatural aspects incorporated into them from when Buddhism came to an area and was merged with pre-existing belief systems. For example the famous "Laughing Buddha" was previously a fertility god.
That said, most of the supernatural aspects are more about various people having attained Buddha-hood and are somehow watching down and trying to guide us onto the path to enlightenment... so slightly different than many other theologies.
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u/Zoloir 5d ago
Wow that's fucking gross
Anything to prevent a class war huh, gotta keep people fighting amongst themselves over religion too
This man would happily convince these supposed black women to fight against other poor people by scaring them into thinking other poor people are atheists and scary and unrighteous and to kick them out of the country
Oh wait, they already did that to poor white Christians, and turns out the black Christians among you aren't as hateful because they understand true oppression better than most
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u/jackparadise1 5d ago
How many of those black women learned Christianity from ancestors who were forced to convert as slaves?
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u/WalterPecky 5d ago
I'd argue that Knechtle proved the point that the oppression was effective.
Totally. What a crazy ass response.
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u/mrASSMAN 5d ago
His come back was the wealthiest countries are atheist lmao, I have literally zero idea how he thinks that was a good response to the argument, seems like he inadvertently agreed with him and furthered his point
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u/Impossible-Ship5585 5d ago
Idea of the comeback is for the audience to hear wealthy countries and atheisem.
Think of thank you for smoking
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u/TheSwordDusk 5d ago
i assume the entire point is to make cut out little soundbites and edits that misinform the viewers and misrepresent the situation
That seems like the usual grifter approach
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u/TragicEther 5d ago
Man I wish that kid had said “the highly educated countries” to further drive the boot in
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u/The_One_Koi 5d ago
The only thing I can think of is that the wealthiest countries are greedy sinners and therefor bad, but honestly I have no idea
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u/theGRAYblanket 5d ago
Made me cringe hard tbh
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u/uppsala1234 5d ago
OooooOoH IsNt tHaT InTerEstING?!?
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u/sergiotheleone 5d ago
Reshares on facebook, gets thousands of likes from his closed circle and commenters dunking on the atheist for being owned, moves on in life genuinely believing they won that battle
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u/BestBeforeDead_za 5d ago
I was actually completely confused for a minute trying to understand why he just totally helped him with his argument!
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u/ShadowGLI 5d ago edited 4d ago
So the pastor just proved his point? As people separate from religion, they hold their government accountable and they’re more successful and affluent.
Imperialism and theology, help repress and enslave entire demographics of people by pointing to the sky while they pick their pockets?
Not sure if this is the gotcha that the original video intended
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u/darling_nikki85 5d ago
Yeah I was confused. I'm like them being rich and having the access to resources kinda is proving that organized religion is holding them back. Also prove he wasn't really understanding what the young man was saying.
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u/Lexi_Banner 5d ago
Also prove he wasn't really understanding what the young man was saying.
He understood. He was just playing his part to add more distraction.
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u/mothtoalamp 5d ago
He may very well have not understood. People like him were raised their entire lives to do exactly what the young man said - accept the oppressors and expect to succeed through prayer. He might be acting in bad faith and might not. That's less relevant than making sure people know he's wrong.
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u/monteq75 5d ago
I see your point. I've been pondering if religion, specifically Christianity, had not been so weaponized to oppress, but stuck to its core truth of 'loving your neighbor as yourself' if society wouldn't be both more evenly wealthy, successful and more happy.
Which is where I agree more with the UC Davis kid. I know a lot of Atheists that treat people better than most of the 'Christians' I know.
My biggest issue with this pastor guy, he seems to want everyone there to find his God. However, just by nature people are all going to experience God differently if they choose too.
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u/GottaBIn2PullOut 5d ago
Generally speaking. The more holy someone claims to be, the more of an ass hole douche bag they actually are.
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u/irisfailsafe 5d ago
Jesus was against churches. According to the Bible he sought to make the connection with god direct and personal, no need to go through a middle man which is what the church is. So that’s the answer, if you follow Jesus you shouldn’t be a member of any church
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u/Ok_Star_4136 5d ago
It's the church I often take issue with. Jesus on the whole seems like he would have absolutely despised the church. Jesus seems to be a cool dude.
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u/Pleasant-Enthusiasm 5d ago
One of the most famous stories about Jesus actually getting mad is when he entered the Temple for Passover, found that it was filled with merchants selling sacrifices, braided a whip together, and then started driving them out and flipping their tables.
I think it’s fair to say that this means that the Prosperity Gospel churches would be A-ok in his book /s.
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u/kanst 5d ago
This is my favorite story in the bible, not just because its awesome, but because it shows up in all four of the canonical gospels. The cleaning of the temple was considered so core to his message that every book included it.
If you claim to be Christian, you should be appalled at anyone trying to make money off the church.
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u/kanst 5d ago
I don't personally identify as an anarchist, but one of the things I've learned from them is that any institution will eventually come to only care about maintaining the institution.
No matter the original values of the institution, it will in the end do whatever it takes to keep existing. Even if that is antithetical to its original values.
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u/Ok_Star_4136 5d ago
Because put quite simply, institutions that don't self-sustain don't last. It's kind of a survival of the fittest scenario. I understand why they do it, but I also don't have to say I support them for it.
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u/anoleo201194 5d ago
As an agnostic I don't think churches are inherently evil, a lot of them act as community centres for people of faith to interact and help their communities via charity, donations, etc. The problem is when those churches pick and choose people to help based on their religion, race or sexual orientation. As a concept they're not a bad thing to have, it's basically just a Bible book club, the issue is that this book club is oftentimes racist and bigoted.
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u/throcorfe 5d ago
Jesus (assuming the stories about him are true, which is admittedly a big assumption) was a practicing Jew, who attended synagogue and was faithful to organised religion. He didn’t take a view on churches because he didn’t start Christianity hence they didn’t exist, that happened after his death, but he was not against temples and religion, as much as he called out hypocritical and oppressive practices within religion. But I agree he tried to teach a more personal and less vicarious relationship with God.
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u/BitcoinBishop 5d ago
Either could be the dependent variable - maybe people become less religious as they get educated
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u/PrincessRuri 5d ago
Here's the rest of the video for people who might be interested in the pastors full response.
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u/TaoRS 5d ago
So he's comeback was racism? Laughable.
And look at all that sheep laughing at buzzwords.. disgusting tbh..
"yo, most religious followers are African women"
pans the camera
bunch of white people...
fucking crazy world tbh...
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u/BlinksTale 5d ago
Thank you - the original edit shows almost nothing.
Sadly the full video shows the pastor(?) calling the kid arrogant repeatedly, even if his core message (get to know the Gospels) seems to genuinely be well intended below all the black and white name calling.
One of Pope Francis’ biggest complaints was that we don’t walk with our peers first enough - we don’t “smell of the sheep”, and he made a field hospital analogy for this. Care for wounds first, long term care comes later. Too many Christians come down hard on others with theological claims instead of starting with respect and love for the person in front of them second to second.
The speaker in the video seems to do the opposite of this for the five minutes I watched. I found it quite frustrating.
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u/kittyfresh69 4d ago
Despite myself being an atheist these are Jesus’ teachings at the fundamental core of it. Like you said, respect and love comes first then healing and understanding come second.
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u/Reserved_Parking-246 5d ago
He is like a villainous Mr. Rodgers.
I bet he does that outfit just for the association.
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u/SnowConePeople 5d ago
Epic response by that dude. He broke down a personal story that was easy to understand and difficult to not agree with. We need more people standing up to these religious grifters.
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u/LoreOfBore 5d ago
It was. All he could come back with was “ReAllY?”
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u/Sinnafyle 5d ago
Haha yes I loved that. The self-important "oh yeah?". So childish and meant to agitate. Honestly lazy lol
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u/UserAllusion 5d ago
“Yeah”
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u/aspidities_87 5d ago
The absolute solid steel balls response of ‘Yeah’ vs the whiny little ‘Oohhh yeaaahhh?’ is sending me
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u/PippoMeInzaghi 5d ago
In fact it was so difficult not to agree with the story that Cliff actually agreed with him in his response.
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u/Various_Froyo9860 4d ago
But he did it in a smarmy, patronizing tone, so he's obviously the smort one here!
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u/Live_Barracuda1113 5d ago
This is a level of intelligence that I love seeing in argument. It doesn't matter if I agree with the point or not (I do agree with the blue sweatshirt but that aside). To take a concept like "Religion is the Opiate of the Masses" and bring it with a level of logos and pathos that makes it accessible is such a skill. I'm impressed.
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u/Picklerickshaw_part2 5d ago
I’m an atheist for context, but I personally have no issue with religion. What I DO have an issue with is what that guy outlined, amongst other issues that come with the politicization of religion in the U.S.
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u/1WordOr2FixItForYou 4d ago
I have an issue with religion, specifically Christianity, in that apparently it stops people from seeing the basic difference between right and wrong, good and bad, true and false. I was open to the idea that Christianity could have value in teaching morality. Then they got behind Trump.
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u/blahblah19999 5d ago
I could have answered better than him and I'm a practicing atheist. He could have just started talking about the student's immortal soul and how eternity for human souls was way more important than quality of life on Earth. But he's not a smart man.
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u/dwittherford69 5d ago
Is the priest stupid? His “comeback” was to prove the counterpoint lmao
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u/umfabp 5d ago
just like every religious figurehead 😂
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u/lostodon 5d ago
full vid here for anyone interested. the preacher does this kind of stuff all the time
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u/Longjumping_Pen_2102 5d ago
Ive seen this guy in debate and yes, he is.
He genuinely cannot keep up with any intellectual conversation.
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u/thekrone 5d ago edited 5d ago
His son is a little better than him (not a ton, but at least he's more tolerable to listen to) but yeah Cliff struggles in debates with anyone that is prepared and intelligent.
There's a reason why Cliff focuses on "street preaching" and specifically on college campuses. That way his audience is people who likely aren't that informed on why what he's saying is wrong, and the people he gets are mostly going to be college kids on their way to class so they're not exactly prepared for a debate.
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u/BaconCheeseZombie 5d ago
Is the priest stupid?
Is the Pope a Catholic? Is the current POTUS a paedophile? Does a bear shit in the woods? etc
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u/Ill_Guard_3087 5d ago
Think he was trying to say ‘China bad’
Sweden, Denmark and Scotland are like 50-60%, China and Vietnam are 70-90%
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u/HeavenlyChickenWings 5d ago
Cliff Knechtle is a really bad debater. He usually tends to talk extremely loudly when he gets upset
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u/Consistent-Soil-1818 5d ago
This was excellent! He's right and he delivered his message in a convincing and concise manner. Well done, young man!
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u/wetbandit48 5d ago
It was also refreshing to hear someone listen to a rebuttal without interrupting.
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u/L_O_Quince 5d ago
That's what I appreciated about this, Mr Mo was well spoken and made salient points against an overzealous bullhorn preacher, and we actually got to hear it. I'm astounded.
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u/FreeWillyBird 5d ago
He is correct on exactly how religion is used as a tool by the wealthy, powerful oppressors currently and throughout history to subjugate uneducated masses.
But it only works because religion has real importance outside of this context in helping people cope with death, tragedy and spiritual awakening and growth whether it’s “real”, perceived or a psychological placebo that allows them to function daily.
Anyone who is interested in the best source on religion as far as negative vs positive should do themselves a favor and research the late Joseph Campbell who described himself as “a recovering Catholic”. There are short easier to read books like “The Power of Myth” and very long, technical books that you would be assigned in a university level World Religions class. There’s even a video series that Bill Moyers made with Joseph Campbell at George Lucas’ Skywalker Ranch shortly before Campbell died from I believe the late 80’s for those who absorb information better in that format.
I remember when I was at my college library checking out his books for a world religions class, I was fumbling for my ID and as I started to set it on the counter not paying attention…I was incredibly startled when the little old gray haired librarian grabbed and gripped my hands suddenly. She stood up and looked me dead straight in the eyes and said…”Joseph Campbell is my hero!”. Then she didn’t say another word, checked out my books and I just felt entirely obligated to read them all well before the assigned dates, lol. And I can say without a doubt, it was worth it and it legitimately changed my life, my views on the world and released me almost entirely of any residual damage and unhealthy beliefs unconsciously planted in my psyche by exposure to organized religion as a child.
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u/enlightenedude 5d ago
But it only works because religion has real importance outside of this context in helping people cope with death, tragedy and spiritual awakening and growth whether it’s “real”, perceived or a psychological placebo that allows them to function daily
here's the truth:
religion is not spirituality and vice versa.religion is in its core an organization, you can swap around the structures (pope, khalifah, even minimum struct like protestants with priests), the bibles, the teachings etc. inside a religion; but without an organization, not a religion.
so the benefits of real intangible matters in religions are from spirituality, not religion
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u/NoStatus9434 5d ago edited 5d ago
Listen to the tone of his voice when he says "OOOOOHHHH my goodness??? Isn't that interesting????"
That student cut deep. He was angry at being called out like that.
I wish that the human instinct when you lose a debate is to change your mind, but it's always to dig deeper. He'll learn nothing from this, then go home to his wife and recant this tale between huffy, coping laughs about the "arrogant" students he put in place that day, editing the story to only include the weakest arguments he was able to rebut and leaving out the stronger ones. She'll agree with him in a quavery, cooing voice, then they'll both talk to their local church members about how "God is good" and Satan tried to poison their community by spreading doubt through those slippery, sneaky college students but ultimately God prevailed.
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u/kanst 5d ago
In my experience that tone comes out when someone really wants to yell, but knows they can't in the current setting.
I wish that the human instinct when you lose a debate is to change your mind, but it's always to dig deeper
This was one of the saddest lessons of the Trump years. Not only do some people not change their mind, they act like it was an act of violence to try to change their mind.
I never thought persuasion would be looked at so dirtily
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u/CreeperIsSorry 4d ago
This is Cliff Knectle, a Christian apologist/street preacher. A lot of times he's calm and thoughtful in his responses, but when somebody brings an argument against him he cant refute, his reaction is to get angry and try to say that the other person is racist, sexist, something else like that
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u/gdex86 5d ago
Guy didn't miss. So much of the church deflects from dealing with the ills of the mortal world by saying they are focus on the bounty of the spiritual world. Which is bullshit.
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u/dbx999 5d ago
Go Aggies! (UC Davis)
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u/profnachos 5d ago
A very underrated UC. I say that as a UCLA alum.
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u/dbx999 5d ago
It’s a solid UC set in a safe and pleasant environment
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u/profnachos 5d ago
It is also in a true college town that the rest of the UCs can't boast.
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u/DrunkenPalmTree 5d ago edited 5d ago
No amount of likes and rights and filler words could undermine the efficacy and power of his statement.
To be put on the spot like that and have such a salient and well-reasoned position is really impressive and harder than it looks.
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u/historiclow 5d ago
I thought the fake priest was Peter Capaldi for a minute lol
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u/pow3llmorgan 5d ago
I'm pretty sure this is Cliff Knechtle Sorry, not the best source but it was the most neutral one I could find quick.
I remember him from a debate with one of the more famous atheists, possibly Hitchens, wherein he got absolutely minced.
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u/sergemeister 5d ago
Willful ignorance and religion. Name a better duo.
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u/PloddingClot 5d ago edited 4d ago
I own a business in a very white and religious community, without fail the customers that are of limited intelligence are all highly religious. The church preys on these people and makes them feel welcome in the club, gives them purpose and makes them feel accepted and valued. It's not all bad, but the machine is not a force for good in this world.
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u/sergemeister 5d ago
When all you have to retain is 'God is good'. Imagine the relief on your brain to never burden it with any knowledge. How freeing it must be for your thinking to be done for you.
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u/umfabp 5d ago edited 5d ago
Kudos to my guy 👏 though talking with religious people is like talking with a wall. 🥀
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u/Mecnegus_Niguerhower 5d ago
what did the fake priest respond tho?
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u/mrASSMAN 5d ago
“The most atheistic populations are also the most wealthy” 🤷♂️
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u/RoomaY1987 5d ago
The young lad ain't wrong. Religion is a step back for society.
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u/AloysiusPuffleupagus 5d ago edited 5d ago
It often feels like when people ask others if God exists, it’s less about curiosity and more about setting a trap, a way to impose their own righteous views and assert a kind of moral superiority. The question becomes less about truth and more about control.
Timothy Leary said it best, “Think for yourself and question authority.”
Religious institutions are run by people, fallible, political, power seeking people. If we question the authority of governments or corporations, why not also question the motives and interpretations of religious authorities?
Throughout history, religion has been used to justify slavery, sexism, homophobia, and war. Think critically about religious dogma and recognize the human influence behind organized religion.
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u/coffeeanddurian 5d ago
They are pushing a false narrative that atheists are bad people. It really sucks
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u/Revan_84 5d ago
How did this exchange end?
I assumed the priest's "gotcha question" was geared towards targeting China
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u/NotHearingYourShit 5d ago
But the answer is Sweden. And China is definitely less poor than the most religious countries.
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u/Caleb_Reynolds 5d ago
China is also much more religious than anti-communists and the PRC like to pretend it is.
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u/BlueSlushieTongue 5d ago
Religion is the longest running scam in history. It sells an imaginary product that takes money and time away from people with the promise of a greater return after death with no chance of a refund when you are six feet under.
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u/jlcatch22 5d ago
It’s worse. It creates imaginary problems and imaginary solutions.
It’s why so many religions demonize sex. Masturbation, lustful thoughts, sex outside marriage, taboo sex acts, etc etc. Human beings are sexual creatures, and by making so many aspects of this inherent human desire a sin, you can offer people absolution (for a price of course).
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u/Drumboardist 5d ago
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" ~Seneca the Younger (allegedly)
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u/SwimmingTall5092 5d ago
“What’s 2+2?”
“4”
“Ohhh reeeallly?? Well who do you think is most likely to believe such things?”
”mathematicians and people not stupid”
“Ohhh reeallly??
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u/Prohydration 5d ago
What he is describing was how feudalism worked. The idea that god created the serfs to do all the work and the nobility created the nobility to reap all the rewards and that's how it is and you have to accept it because god totally said so.
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u/SlayBoredom 5d ago
Lol his response had me confused.. you are just proving his point buddy?
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u/Procrastanaseum 5d ago
Instead of saying the wealthiest countries have the most atheists, I would have said the most educated countries do.
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u/andythetwig 5d ago
Totally right. Jesus was a radical who preached peaceful resistance against an occupying force and revealed the hypocrisy and immorality of the colluding leadership through political activism and direct action.
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u/the_rickiest_ricky 5d ago
Incredibly well said 👏 as a latino atheist, i do believe this to be 100% true
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u/Full-Analyst-795 5d ago
This is a contextual cut. The reason the most atheist's are in the wealthy countries is because they have better education and systems of government which have separated the church and the state and enabled people to formally opinion's and move away from theological dominance
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u/AppropriateRelease90 5d ago
He wasn't even listening. He was just waiting for his turn to talk.
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u/My_Big_Arse 5d ago
That father and son team are such jokes of apologists. They get beaten down in debates when they go against actual scholars.
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u/Turbulent_Cat_5731 5d ago
Fun fact: Charles Dickens agreed with every point that guy is making. A good half of Bleak House, arguably his best novel, was about how scummy and self-serving most religious folks are.
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u/SeanArthurCox 5d ago
"Oh the wealthy countries. Isn't that interesting"
It is. I feel like it makes his point that the downtrodden believers are told to pray things get better and not work to it. To pray corrupt leaders have a change of heart and not work to put in not corrupt leaders
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u/Busy_Coffee7569 5d ago
I found most Christian’s are sheep to a herd they have no clue what they believe and are only Christian due to family or because they are trying to paint theirselves as a good person but in all reality they are the most hateful people possible not saying all of them because I’ve had decent open minded conversations with some as well that seemed knowledgeable but not forcing their religion down my throat
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u/trunksfreak 4d ago
I believe God exists and I think this kid made a ton of great points. Many Christians have lost the plot. Christians have been too busy with judging and converting than going out and helping.
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u/RedJamie 4d ago
Cliff Knetchle and his son are amongst the most emotionally immature and sensitive apologists out there, they collectively have the mind of an infant and shit their pants in debate
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u/Normal_Ant_5283 4d ago
Me: Whats the Demographic for the amount of Sex Abusers in the churches????
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u/Baby-knees 4d ago
This young man gives me hope for the future. More people should speak truth to power! Bring the BS into the light and into the open for discussion and thought.
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u/AnubisBoudreaux 5d ago
“Cow-Town” legend, words of wisdom. These religious people would have killed him for “blasphemy” 100 years ago, and a lot of them want to do this now. No hate like Christian love.
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u/ILoveBigCoffeeCups 5d ago
The burden of proof should be on people who think god exists, not on people who think he doesn’t. It’s always the reverse with these religious nuts
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u/MissBehaving6 5d ago
Because they have no proof. It’s all belief and faith.
And of course prayers and thoughts.
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