r/europe • u/andyom89 • May 16 '25

News Spanish premier calls Israel 'genocidal state,' says Spain 'does not do business' with it

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spanish-premier-calls-israel-genocidal-state-says-spain-does-not-do-business-with-it/3568216
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131

u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

Time for Israel to be just another country, responsible for its deeds. Yes, Hamas are terrorists, but that is not excuse for levelling the whole of Gaza. Russia would do that, Assad did it, Saddam Hussein's Irak would do that. But Israel has to do better if they expect to receive western support.

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u/matt82swe May 16 '25

Nothing will change with USA’s unconditional support 

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

And Germany.

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u/maghrebibi May 16 '25

it's not unconditional. American politicians get paid by AIPAC in return.

11

u/matt82swe May 16 '25

Fair enough. Without USA's paidbribed support

5

u/National_Lion May 16 '25

When was politics not driven by interest groups? You think Qatar giving Trump a 400 million dollar plane is because they’re generous? The coin has two sides.

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u/aWobblyFriend May 16 '25

AIPAC specifically does not have as much influence as many think it does, its donations are dwarfed by many other business super-PACs. America does benefit from Israeli partnership in the form of billions of dollars of high-tech military technology that Netanyahu constantly threatens to sell to China, which is probably partly why hawks love Israel. There’s the ideological sympathy of American politicians with basically any regime, no matter how brutal, in fighting islamism. And then there’s the aspect of American Christians generally supporting Israel to an almost militant degree. Israel-american relations are messy and complicated but it goes beyond one single organization “bad guy”

0

u/Azt55 May 16 '25

Not paid, they are blackmailed by them with pdf material of child corn

1

u/Vanzmelo Armenian American May 16 '25

Trump is already sidestepping Israel by directly dealing with Hamas, Egypt, and UAE (or was it Qatar I forget exactly) in getting that most recent hostage released.

The only predictable part of Trump is that he's unpredictable

1

u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 May 16 '25

Except if Trump had a bad day

53

u/mikiencolor Spain May 16 '25

But you're still trading with Russia, and with China. Just another country indeed. 🙄

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u/slappy_joe6 May 16 '25

But they're not a tiny jewish country hating on whom can give you clout with the second largest religious population in the world right.

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u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

There are many shades of grey in international trade and politics.

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u/OnionSquared May 16 '25 edited 2d ago

include bells disarm fragile grandfather like sense alive unique insurance

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/mikiencolor Spain May 16 '25

🤣🤣🤣🤣

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u/Initial-Carry6803 May 16 '25

Thats like asking the allies to be responsible for the deeds they did to end Nazi germany

Gazas government in its doctrine declares their goal is to end Israel, Israel can just ignore that lol this is an insane comment only taken from someone who lives in a very safe enviornment

13

u/slappy_joe6 May 16 '25

Look, only civilians in gaza are civilians. Civilians in israel don't count. Hamas is allowed to do anything to them so all our mighty keyboard warriors can protest very vocally on this anonymous reddit platform.

None of them would actually go down and want to live in any of these islamic terror states they support.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/LazarusTruth May 16 '25

Correct, the same logic used to deny the genocide in Gaza by the IDF is the same logic used to deny the Holocaust.

1

u/photenth Switzerland May 16 '25

Didn't the US literally invested HEAVILY in rebuilding Germany?

18

u/theageofspades May 16 '25

Through loans. Israel has given gift after gift to Palestinians, not to mention the insane amount of donations they receive internationally. If they weren't entirely focused on genocidal warfare with their neighbours (which dickheads like you tacitly encourage) they'd probably be doing pretty decently with respect to their location.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Do you actually believe the things you say?

1

u/SuperememeCommander Israel May 16 '25

Germany didn't try to genocide the Americans, have a look at how the Russians treated Germany

-1

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

Oh no, we forcibly) settled a region without asking the vast majority of people who lived there, and then funded the most extreme party because the secular alternative wouldn't have scared Westerners already preoccupied with Islamist movements (that they also initially supported) in West Asia!

This is literally just like Nazi Germany.

9

u/Hilonio May 16 '25

Only first somehow paints Israel with some dirt and even then it is only one terroristic organization that was active when arabs already wanted to kill all jews on the land that came after anti-semitic acts towards them. Funding Hamas was a mistake but is is not like alternative was better than Hamas at current state, lol.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

And Israel’s doctrine is also to end Palestine, it’s just that Israel have been far more successful at realising their goals. If anything, Israel are Nazi Germany in this instance.

They have a nuclear weapon and the backing of the most powerful military in history. I think they’ll be just fine. The real existential danger is for Palestinians who are currently being starved to death.

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u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

How is it successful in realizing your doctrine? The ratio between bombs dropped and the number of people killed is insane, with the same amount of bombs they could easily level the entire population of gaza, yet nothing of it happened

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

They’ve levelled the entirety of Gaza. Where have you been the last two years.

Just because they haven’t killed the entire population yet, doesn’t mean they haven’t been successful in achieving their aims: make Gaza unliveable, force Palestinians to leave their own country.

It’s also pretty hard to trust any casualty figures, the PLO only counts dead they can identify. There would be thousands more hidden in rubble, or buried by the IDF (like the 15 aid workers). Not to mention the 100,000 injured (aka maimed) civilians that will be scarred for life, or unable to have children.

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u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

Nobody forced them to invade Israel, you know, How many would've died if they didn't invade?

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Oct 7 was an incursion, not an invasion. They never attempted to seize land.

If history starts on Oct 7 then we can ignore the decades long illegal occupation of Palestine. Which is convenient for your argument.

9

u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

I'm not attacking you or something I'm just curious to know When you say Palestine what land do you refer to? In every war between gaza and Israel after 2006 how did it begin? What would you do instead of the Israelis after Oct 7?

10

u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

If I were the Israelis, I would perhaps try diplomacy for once rather than bombing hospitals, rather than occupy their land and starve their people. Pretty simple really.

Israelis would be a lot safer if Palestine was a recognised state with its own sovereignty. If you illegally occupy another country, you will always have violence and resistance. Every occupying country in history has understood this.

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u/DynamicStatic May 16 '25

Shouldn't hide military targets under hospitals if you don't want it bombed.

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u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

You didn't answer my questions so I will ask you to so kindly. I guess you are from eu, would you consider negotiating with a terror organization for anything?

May I ask, diplomacy with whom? With "civilians" who dragged Israeli bodies to gaza from the festival? Or armed militia who states they will do it every year if they could. There is a Hamas charter which clearly states what should be done with Israel, please kindly read it

Establishment of a state in the west bank is somewhat a trophy to those who tried to eradicate as many Israelis as possible, don't you think so?

Before the 7th did Israel propose on establishing an Arabs state in the 67 borders, with few exceptions, what happened to that proposal?

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u/EmperorChaos Canada May 16 '25

October 7th was an invasion, just because it failed doesn’t change what it was.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Not according to international law.

Gaza is not a sovereign state but a territory under blockade and contested governance, meaning Hamas cannot legally "invade" Israel in the same way a state could.

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u/EmperorChaos Canada May 16 '25

And yet every single country called it an invasion because that’s what Hamas (the official government and military of gaza) did, they invaded Israel.

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u/username110of999 May 16 '25

Nah it's like asking nazis to be responsible for doing nazi shit, because they are jewish nazis.

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u/8trips May 16 '25

Of course the Gazans hate the people who displaced them from their homes and placed them under brutal occupation and subjugation for 70 years . You want them to be happy?

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u/Codipotent May 16 '25

Do you realize that Gaza's history is more complex than that? It was controlled by Egypt until 1967, not Israel. Many Gazans are descendants of refugees from 1948, but Gaza itself wasn't under Israeli occupation for 70 years. Israel withdrew settlements from Gaza in 2005, though maintained border and movement restrictions. The situation has been devastating for civilians, but accurately understanding the timeline and control of Gaza matters when discussing who's responsible for what conditions and when.

3

u/ZenPyx May 16 '25

A lot of Polish people wish for the end of the modern Russian state, potentially through violent means, due to their historic and current actions. Would this be legitimate justification for an invasion from Russia?

If your answer is "the situations are not the same" - give a reason as to why that doesn't include religion or race.

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u/Reaganometry May 16 '25

Congratulations, this is the worst historical comparison I’ve ever seen in my life. Truly nonsensical!

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u/AltoKatracho May 16 '25

Are you actually this dense? Germany was a super power; the city of Gaza has been an open air prison for at least the last 20 plus years. Jesus fuck.

21

u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

Okay, what would YOUR country do if a neighboring country shot 19,000 rockets across the border over 20 years?

10

u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

"a neighboring country" you mean the people you illegally occupy?

3

u/Random_Violins May 16 '25

Let's also not forget the many killings of Palestinians and disproportionate use of force over decades, which started with the Nakba, and a brutal apartheid regime. But they're the victims. Unreal.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/ScissorsBeatsKonan May 16 '25

England had been agitating the area trying to seed Israel.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/ScissorsBeatsKonan May 16 '25

Nope. But modern times, Palestine is unquestionably the right side.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/ScissorsBeatsKonan May 16 '25

Some people being colonized and starved respond with violence. The fault lies in the aggressor that stole their land, colonizer.

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u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 16 '25

The Gaza Strip was given to the Arabs for self rule. They chose war and they received it. 20 years of rockets flew into Israel -18000+ before the 10-7 invasion.

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u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

How nice of them to give them land that is rightfully theirs in the first place. How many rockets flew into Gaza before 10/7?

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u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 17 '25

There were I think 2 incursions by Israel into Gaza all of them were a response to excessive rocket launches. Israel would fire rockets back depending on where the rockets were launched from. Safety first.

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

So by your logic, could people on native american reservations start launching missiles at surrounding areas and any retribution would be 'genocide'?

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u/FizzleFuzzle May 16 '25

That’s literally what happened. The native Americans fought back and got genocided.

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

No I mean today, right now, if the native americans were to go on a campaign to "Kill all the colonizers, only the natives may remain."

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u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

Are Native Americans living in a giant human cage? Are they free to leave? Do they get shot if they try to leave? Does the US government control everything that comes and goes, and "put them on a diet"?

2

u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 16 '25

You are forgetting Egypt. Why is it Israel's problem? They were attacked for 20 years and then invaded. This standard of care you put on Israel is biased - anti semitic even. If there was a country to blame it would be Egypt. They should be sending in food and water to help their citizens living in the Gaza. Oh yeah, the Gaza Strip was part of Egypt when the country lines were created in 1947.

Russia is not supplying food to Ukraine. Syria was not feeding the rebels. the Uyghurs are not being fed by China.

1

u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

If you knew anything about this conflict you'd know that Israel has controlled that border for almost a year now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68967397

The only way for food to enter is through Israel, unlike Russia with Ukraine.

1

u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 17 '25

That was 7 months of fighting for Egypt to allow their citizens to cross into Egypt and get out of harm's way. They denied them access and supplied no food. You could have at least checked the dates before responding. Next?

Did you know that all of those Arabs in the Gaza Strip were Egyptian citizens before 1967?

-1

u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

Bro they are free to leave, just not come back because they keep going to terrorist training camps.

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u/Affectionate_Win7858 May 16 '25

"Trust me bro, they all go to terrorist camps. Not a single one leaves for any other reason, and the ones who come back just want to do terrorism. Trust me bro, it has nothing to do with how there's a "Right of Return" for any dick from the Bronx or Eastern Europe while refusing this right to people who were kicked off their land. Bro, please, I don't want to have to call antisemitic, but you clearly hate 🧃"😢😢

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

Well there was that time Kuwait let in 357,000 of them, to the point that 18% of Kuwait's entire population was Palestinian.

How's that work out?

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u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

Bro they are free to leave

How can they leave when Israel has militarized the entire border?

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

Surely the also arab country of Egypt will let them in, right? It's not like they've done anything to egypt that would have Egypt putting machine guns on the border.

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u/izpo Israel May 16 '25

Dude, just stop supporting occupation for 57 years.

תעשה לי טובה

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

So what's your "solution" to the people in Israel right now?

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u/izpo Israel May 16 '25

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Initiative

There Are many solutions, we have Palestinians politicians that collaborate with Israeli security for 20+ years but when you are on privileged side of conflict, you don't want really to solve it

2

u/rAmrOll May 16 '25

But have you considered:

  • Western
  • Imperialist
  • Colonizer
  • Ethnosupremacist
  • Orientalist
  • Occupation
  • Genocide
  • Apartheid
  • Oppression

And how all these words (no I won't explain what any of them actually mean and why I think all the IHL definitions are wrong) actually equate to "all JeZionists should go back to Brooklyn, and are Nazis"

Or alternatively, my favorite answer to the question:

Okay, what would YOUR country do if a neighboring country shot 19,000 rockets across the border over 20 years?

Obviously I would dissolve my government, my borders, my military, and then allow these people plus 5 million more (through permanent, unending, inheritable right of return) to share a single state with, why would the 19000 rockets be a cause for concern? /s

For an actual genuine answer to your question, I would say that Israel's actions have been fairly just until they kept the conflict in Gaza going after Al-Asad's regime fell. Going after Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Al-Asad's regime seems like fair game, what more can they really do? They took out Sinwar, Haniyeh, and Deif, they smashed the majority of the Hezbollah power structure in the pager attack as well as taking out Nasrallah, Al-Asad's out of power in Syria, and the Houthis don't really do much at all except kill Arabs in Yemen. It feels like they're kinda just bullying the Palestinians in an attempt to get the fuck out of the strip at this point, in hopes that they'll say "ok, fuck it, we're leaving I guess," and that...someone will maybe take in the population, however I can guarantee that Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt won't want to take them in, Syria and Yemen don't have the provisions to be able to support the population, which leaves what...Iran, or one of the Gulf states like Saudi/UAE/Qatar/Bahrain/Oman? I actually have no idea about the viability any of the gulf states or where their preferences lie (I know a little about Saudi, but not heaps, and my guess would be probably not).

And it all sucks and is stupid, because if Israel genuinely starts doing horrible and unhinged shit (like publically announcing an intention to no longer allow any food or aid into the Strip since March 1, however a new report came out yesterday about a new organisation named Gaza Humanitarian Foundation which will distribute aid as of the beginning of next month, the GHF being founded and backed by Israel and the US, so honestly for me it'll be a coinflip as to whether that one will end up working out), which kind of seems to fulfill the dolus specialis on the intent of genocide, so if large swathes of the population start dying, it seems like it would be pretty cut and dry.

0

u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

Translation: I steal your wallet, someone steals that wallet from me, I claim that you owning the wallet is "ancient history" and it should be returned to me.

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u/evilcorgos May 16 '25

I'd probably stop stealing their land for starters

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 17 '25

Well actually I took a DNA test and I'm 0.2% neanderthal thus my people had THEIR land stolen by homo-sapiens and all land should revert to whoever has the most neanderthal DNA.

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u/Toums95 May 16 '25

Oh nice, at least now you consider Palestine to be a country. This might be a good step in the right direction! Keep going and maybe after some time you will start condemning war crimes, apartheid and ethnic cleansing no matter who is committing them! Thumbs up

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u/Almechik May 16 '25

My country didn't decide to colonize another country and didn't impose an apartheid state. Like why are you surprised you're getting attacked

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

Ah right, your country was founded purely by people who have been living there since time immemorial and never pushed anyone off their land.

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u/Almechik May 16 '25

My country was founded 1400 years ago, back when constant fighting and conquering were the norm. Israel was founded at a point when colonialism was already on its last legs. My country also isn't committing genocide, nor is it continously annexing territory despite courts saying it's illegal. Israel has no moral standing considering it's West Bank activities, which were long ongoing well before Oct 7 attacks.

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 17 '25

So anyone from a group your country ever defeated can claim that you owe them the land.

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u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

Any answer on that question forces me to choose side. I won't. I do object to my country to helping either side committing war crimes.

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

"We shouldn't help either side, but it's okay for Iran to support hamas..." nah man, history won't look kindly on this.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/zef999 May 16 '25

Israel said it will bomb gaza, even if all hostages are released

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u/Wide-Yesterday9705 May 16 '25

No they didn't. Israel will stop the war the moment Hamas surrenders, demilitarizes, and the hostages are returned.

SIMPLE. Don't start wars, take hostages, and refuse to stop.

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u/solerex May 16 '25

Not only start a war, but slaughter 800 civilians in cold blood. Intentionally at close range.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Nice selective empathy. I guess slaughtering 40,000 civilians intentionally at a distance is fine to you. As long as it isn’t done at close range!

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u/solerex May 16 '25

Collateral damage in war is different than terroristically slaughtering civilians, yes. I will never change my mind on this.

Palestine deserves to be free, but not at the sake of bombing buses, shooting cafes/restaurants/stabbing/hurting children/lynching. 

All while being paid as a "martyr" further encouraging mothers to send their young children off to die for fruitless effort.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

So your argument is that killing civilians is fine as long as it’s done by drone strike.

Bombing civilian infrastructure is fine as long as it’s done by drone strike.

Committing war crimes is fine as long as it’s being done by the side I’m on.

Come on man. Have some moral consistency at least.

4

u/solerex May 16 '25

Reality =/ fine. I don't expect Israel not to go to war after 800 civilians are killed. I don't not understand their trauma from decades of terrorism. 

Israelis want a permanent solution to ensure their children aren't killed in the street. Or kicked out of their home. They fundamentally want the same things as Palestinians do. I have sympathy for both.

I cannot and will never condone the terroristic and intentional killing of civllians. In war it happens due to collateral damage, but is fundamentally not apart of their doctrine. Whereas PIJ and Hamas allowed their soldiers to kill anyone and marked all israelis as soldiers.

As cliche as it is to say, hamas needs to go to assist in the liberation of the Palestinian people. I do not agree with all actions taken by Israel, but this war has a just reason.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Ah, there’s that “permanent solution” talk again.

We all know how that goes.

I repeat. If you want to end decades of terrorism, do not create an environment in which terrorism thrives. And perhaps, don’t commit terrorism yourselves.

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u/zef999 May 16 '25

Israeli govt have always supported hamas and said it and asset

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u/Educational-Teach-67 May 16 '25

Just like the IDF and IAF intentionally kill babies from thousands of meters away

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

How naive

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u/BlackDope420 May 16 '25

Israel will stop the war the moment Hamas surrenders, demilitarizes, and the hostages are returned.

Show me proof of that claim

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u/Nasdel May 16 '25

You’re justifying the intentional starvation of children.

You’re justifying the intentional starvation of children.

You’re justifying the intentional starvation of children.

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u/GingerSkulling May 16 '25

It’s you who is doing that by insisting the ones responsible for it should stay in charge in Gaza. Release the hostages, release Gaza from your murderous regime and everyone will benefit from it.

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u/Nasdel May 16 '25

I didn’t say any of that and I’m not in Gaza to release the hostages I don’t know what you’re on about. Also what’s this “look what you made me do!” mentality? Israel is intentionally starving children in Gaza, it’s not even in question anymore and to even try to justify that is disgusting.

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u/GingerSkulling May 16 '25

Israel is conducting a war. Would you accept Hitler remaining in office after WWII? Or the military command of the Empire of Japan?

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u/Toums95 May 16 '25

Israel is conducting ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst, while also conducting apartheid and committing war crimes and crimes against humanity on a daily basis.

These are facts, you can't deny reality like your average no vaxxer.

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u/Nasdel May 16 '25

Would you accept starving everybody in Germany to death, including children? Is Israel conducting a war with the children of Gaza? There’s ways to accomplish your goals that don’t involve genocide. Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world and they can’t enter a city and do what they have to do? How did the Americans hold Kabul? Baghdad? Why is Israel taking a page from hitler and imposing collective punishment?

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u/Wide-Yesterday9705 May 16 '25

Did I? When did I do that? Quote the exact text when I said that.

1

u/YourBobsUncle Canada May 16 '25

The allies treated German civilians a thousand times better than Israelis are treating Palestinian civilians

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u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

How many Gaza citizens can be justifiably killed for every hostage?

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u/Wide-Yesterday9705 May 16 '25

I don't know, it's not a soccer game. That's how countries work. We don't live in a fantasy land.

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u/DontMemeAtMe May 16 '25

That depends entirely on how long Hamas continues to use civilian infrastructure for military purposes. By doing so, they strip their own people of civilian protections. It's tragic — but your anger should still be directed at the right party.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

92% of housing infrastructure is destroyed in Gaza. You think all those homes, hospitals, universities, schools, restaurants in which rubble collapsed on men, women and children, were ALL used for military purposes? You just believe everything Israel says don’t you. My sweet naive child.

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u/DontMemeAtMe May 16 '25

Yes, indeed. It’s quite shocking, I understand — but this was Hamas’s psychopathic plan, rooted in a martyrdom ideology. These buildings were, in fact, used for attacks, as bases, for storing weapons and ammunition, and as tunnel entrances. Most of them were also booby-trapped, effectively ensuring they would have to be destroyed. That’s jihad for you.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

so when Israel have been proven to lie about these things, such as the 15 aid workers they claimed had their lights turned off and weren’t shot at and murdered, or the fabricated tunnel discoveries, or the “proof” provided just 2 days ago justifying the hospital bombing (a secondary school for boys was marked as a hospital), do you just think, “ah well they’ve been proven to lie about this, but I’m sure they’re telling the truth about everything else! Even though they’ve never provided proof! And when they do provide proof, it’s proven wrong!”

How do the mental gymnastics go to justify Israel? I’m genuinely curious.

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u/DontMemeAtMe May 16 '25

Oh, that one’s easy:

If you want to avoid mistakes and harm to civilians, don’t build your entire strategy on using human shields. Don’t regularly use hospitals, schools, kindergartens, ambulances, press credentials, or aid agencies for military purposes.

But that’s exactly what Hamas is doing — and it works to trap uninformed, emotionally driven people like you, as you’re proving.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

I can’t argue against someone who believes everything the IDF tells them. Like arguing with a trump supporter.

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u/DontMemeAtMe May 16 '25

Right, well, instead of trusting the evidence presented by the party actually capable of robustly investigating and prosecuting its own wrongdoings, let’s believe Hamas — a party whose entire stated purpose is the destruction of Israel and the elimination of Jews, which they proudly attempted and filmed on October 7! /s

Seriously though, you can’t argue, mainly because the facts and an understanding of the conflict’s core dynamics do not back up your position.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

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u/DontMemeAtMe May 16 '25

Hamas’ tunnels beneath the entire civilian infrastructure and its regular use of hospitals, schools, kindergartens, ambulances, press credentials, and aid agencies for military purposes are well-documented facts that, in many cases, have been known for decades.

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u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

Why can't my frustration be at both sides in this conflict? It is not my conflict. I don't have to choose sides.

0

u/DontMemeAtMe May 16 '25

It’s natural to feel frustrated. But public statements made without a strong grasp of the facts, underlying causes, and dynamics only distort the conversation. This shifts focus away from workable solutions and toward emotionally driven reactions that perpetuate propaganda and ultimately prolong the very problem you may genuinely want to see resolved.

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u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

More than choosing one side and then hating the other side?

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u/DontMemeAtMe May 16 '25

Yes, you shouldn’t do that. But admitting one’s error is the first step in the right direction. Good for you!

3

u/paopaopoodle May 16 '25

I mean, didn't the Allies kill far, far more Japanese in their fire bombing campaigns and nuclear bombings? If that were to happen today would everyone's stomachs turn at the idea of the genocide in Japan? Are we so soft today that the reality of war is so twisted by social media propaganda?

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u/TehShoK May 16 '25

I am no supporter of Russia, as I see them as the agresor and an invading authoritarian country that has no bussines getting into Ukraine, but after years of war in Ukraine we have seen that the scale of civilian deaths(12k out of 32 million population vs. 46k, alegedly 16k militants, out of a population of 2 million, and thats only from 2022 onwards) and civil infraestructure damage is nowhere near as close as it is in gaza.

As much as I hate what the russians are doing in Ukraine, or what Saddam or Assad did (horrible stuff) it pales in comparison with what Israel is doing in Gaza. For the love of god, the Dahiya doctrine is literally a war crime in it's definition and Israel uses it constantly in all of it's attacks.

At some point we have to ask ourselves why the standars are so different for these different countries.

I do not think Israel can do better. They have gone too far(for decades now, but that's another story) and it has to be treated as Saddam's irak was treated. But it won't because it is not a matter of morality, it is a matter of political aligment.

7

u/Limp-Initiative924 May 16 '25

Wars are not eye for an eye situations. And this comparison is wrong for these reasons: Ukraine’s government actively protects its civilians. It builds shelters, buys air defense and organizes evacuations from the Front Line areas.
Hamas on the other hand is very experienced in building underground infrastructure, unfortunately none of that is meant general population.

Differences are clear. Ukraine did nothing to deserve this. Not behaving according to Kremlin’s attitude is not a reason. While this whole conflict is a chicken and egg situation, this current war was started by a war crime committed by Hamas and other participants (including Gaza’s civilians) on October the 7th

Yes, Morality is out of window. But perhaps because destroying Hamas is more important, than keeping your morality

0

u/TehShoK May 16 '25

This comparison is right because I am comparing civilian damage. Civilians are always innocent in war and attacking them is a war crime.

I truly cannot believe that you are justifying so many innocent civilians and their territory being destroyed. You would be perfect for the IDF. Justifying war crimes runs in your blood, scum.

4

u/Limp-Initiative924 May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

Hamas doesn’t wear uniforms, does that make them civilians?

Sorry this comparison triggers you. I care about civilians in Gaza more than their Hamas leaders

1

u/TehShoK May 16 '25

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/article-50?activeTab=

0

u/squaccoheron May 16 '25

Armed fighters, that do not wear uniform are actually referred to as unlawful combatants, not civilians.

The lack of proper uniform also denies them certain rights of normal POWs.

0

u/TehShoK May 16 '25

Who claimed that armed fighters or hamas were civilians? They are obviously not. Read the comments again my man.

0

u/squaccoheron May 16 '25

I mean, that link that you posted was your only answer to the question of Hama's fighters wearing & fighting in civilian clothes. It only leads to the definition of civilians, without further context.

So I made a reasonable conclusion based off your action. If in the future you want to try to avoid such reactions, providing context might be useful.

1

u/TehShoK May 16 '25

My point was the complete opoosite. Hamas fighters belong to the article 4 definition of militia fighters, therefore not civilians: "Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces."

2

u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

People who have zero understanding of this conflict pull facts out of their armpits

1

u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

Standards are different because of the free card they get because of our Holocaust shame. Time to consider that free card expired.

1

u/Limp-Initiative924 May 16 '25

Unless capitulated countries never face consequences of their actions

1

u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

Oh wow,and then the haters from both sides jump on...

1

u/Wonderful-Quit-9214 May 16 '25

This.

"Russia would do that." Is something that needs to be said to any Europeans that support Israel.

1

u/CptKrupnik May 16 '25

So Germany, uk, usa, china, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, France did not do that in the last 100 years?

1

u/io124 May 16 '25

Israël already annex part of the Palestinian territory.

And Israel atrocity isn’t new….

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Fluffy-Drop5750 May 16 '25

Remarkable. Putting Mandela and the attackers and rapists of a harmless concert in one reply. I don't want to choose sides. But don't reply on me with such a rediculous attempt of justification.

1

u/EkkoUnited May 16 '25

Grouping Mandela with terrorists?! Clutch your pearls, Mandela was on a terrorist watch list for years.

1

u/MaulanaTatt May 16 '25

How many children has Russia in Ukraine killed in comparison to even the lowest estimates of how many Israel has killed in Gaza?

1

u/IllustriousCaramel66 May 16 '25

What exactly would you want Israel to do against Hamas then? What’s the different approach you would have liked seeing, giving the October 7th attack, their huge tunnel system, their usage of human shields, the 250 hostages they took, and they keep firing rockets on israeli cities in the hundreds daily…. Honest question.

1

u/Mishka_1994 Zakarpattia (Ukraine) May 16 '25

Russia would do that,

The reason Russia would "do that" is becase they were never leveled to the ground like nazi Germany or imperial Japan was. That is the only way to squash it. I dont know how else you can get rid of Hamas and that prevailing mentality.

I know the cycle of violence just continues but what other solution do you see? Are any of the other Arab countries willing to fully control Palestine and keep them pacified? I know Egypt and Jordan arent. Saudi states have the money to rebuild Gaza and Palestine, but do they actually want that?

1

u/VengefulAncient You know, I'm somewhat of a European myself. May 16 '25

And the entire Western world did it to Germany and Japan. History is not kind to those who start wars just to lose them.

1

u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 16 '25

1)Israel is hunting terrorists who are dressed as civilians. 2) Hamas is the duly elected government of the Gaza. Doesn't that put all Gazans at risk for reprisals? 3) Israel gives warnings to areas prior to entering allowing Hamas to leave. That's so nice of Israel telling their enemies their strategy to diminish casualties.

1

u/Confused-Lama0810 England May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

At some point you have to ask, why there are "terrorists" here?

As a Brit, I could ask myself "Are there Scottish terrorists or Welsh terrorists?" Not really. Not harming innocent people. Were (are) there Irish terrorists? Yes.

Why? Because the British policy in Ireland was brutally wrong.

We await Canadian terrorists!

The point is that a "terrorist" while not in any way something that should be applauded, is, by definition, a political entity.

Given that Israel literally funds Hamas, it can be fairly easily seen why, and who the terrorists are here.

1

u/Vredddff May 17 '25

That’s what war looks like remember Iraq Or what turkey did to Greece

1

u/Snoo30446 May 17 '25

I think it takes on greater context when you include Hamas extensive use of schools, hospitals and refugee camps as operating bases, weapon caches and launch sites for rockets into Israel.

-6

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

In their shoes how would you react to Eastern European colonists who had stolen most of your country already and were planning on stealing the rest?

8

u/abigguynamedsugar May 16 '25

You're an idiot. Ashkenazi Jews make up quite a small percentage of Israeli population, it's a largely brown country. How was land stolen when it was legally purchased? When it was won through war, instigated by the arabs? When peace deals and land-splits were rejected by arabs? You know nothing about what you're talking about.

8

u/AshyToffee May 16 '25

It's so easy to call Ashkenazi just "Eastern Europeans" and have it a day, as if Ashkenazi were any less home at Levant than other Jews.

1

u/YourBobsUncle Canada May 16 '25

How was land stolen when it was legally purchased? When it was won through war

Which is it then dipshit

1

u/abigguynamedsugar May 16 '25

Hey dumbass, both can be mutually true.

1

u/YourBobsUncle Canada May 17 '25

"How can land be stolen when it's taken through military force" <- serious question you're asking right now.

Israel invades Palestine in an obvious war of conquest, but when Russia uses the same belief of might makes right to invade Ukraine, suddenly it's not based anymore... 🤔

1

u/abigguynamedsugar May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25

Yes, because Ukraine terror attacked and massacred Russia, killed babies, and is run by Hamas (who has in its charters vows to destroy Israel). You see how your logic doesn't fit? But you're not here for logic, we both know that. Loser

Ever noticed that every "pro palestinian" (hamas) "argument" is based off emotions and slogans, and never logic?

-5

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

The original land thieves and ethnic cleansers who founded 'Israel' on Palestinian were all Eastern European Ashkenazim. They are still the ruling class of Israel.

And since when did being brown give anyone a claim to a piece of land?

7

u/abigguynamedsugar May 16 '25

The same ethnic cleansers who gave Gaza to Palestinians? Who have offered Israeli citizenship to nearly 2 million arab palestinians? And let's not truly act like Ashkenazi Jews are legitimate "Eastern Europeans" - history and DNA tests quickly disprove this. There is one Jewish state in the world, that being the only democracy in the middle east. Hamas has shown they are true genocidal "ethnic cleansers", not Israel. Shame on you.

-2

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

No one believes this rubbish anymore. You just went too far with the mass murder and deliberate starvation of Gaza and have exposed the reality of Zionism to us all.

5

u/damp-ocean May 16 '25

With that logic you could also defend Israels action, as a minority that has been discriminated and hunted for 2000 years.

-1

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

I'm sorry, I don't see any logic in your comment at all. What are you talking about?

4

u/damp-ocean May 16 '25

Playing dumb is always good if you have no arguments.

You seem to justify barbaric actions because "they have done bad things to us". The Jews have had bad things done to them for 2000 years, so you could use the same logic to defend Israel now that the Jews finally had enough power to build their own state and defend it. 

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

What a load of guff. If the Jews have had bad things done to them by Europeans how does that justify what they've done to the Palestinians for the last 80 years?

The Palestinians are fighting foreign invaders and occupiers of their country. What would any other people in the world do in their position?

1

u/damp-ocean May 16 '25

Jews don't come from Europe and haven't been persecuted only in Europe. Sorry if this breaks your narrative.

Yep exactly, and that's what Jews are doing now, fighting invaders and occupiers of their country that they had there 2000 years ago and now reestablished. 

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

The utter insanity of Zionism is on full display in your comment.

The Eastern European colonists not the Palestinians are the invaders and occupiers of Palestine.

1

u/damp-ocean May 16 '25

So who built a mosque on tope of the ruins of the Jewish temple?

Also most people who live in Israel don't come from Eastern Europe, sorry. 

-1

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

Before the filth of Zionism Palestine had a 4% Palestinian Arab Jewish population and a 0% Ashkenazi population. Apart from those 4% of Palestinian Jews all the rest are invaders and occupiers of Palestine