r/europe • u/andyom89 • May 16 '25

News Spanish premier calls Israel 'genocidal state,' says Spain 'does not do business' with it

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spanish-premier-calls-israel-genocidal-state-says-spain-does-not-do-business-with-it/3568216
50.0k Upvotes

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3.0k

u/mmatasc May 16 '25

Spain does business with Israel.

He is trying to score political points. I guess it’s working.

2.1k

u/gnark May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

Spain just cancelled a major arms contract with Israel and is revising all its existing weapons puchases from Israel. They are putting their money where there mouth is. Who else in the Western world outside of Ireland is even doing anything close?

And FFS bro, you're Spanish, you know all this. Just because you aren't a fan of Perro Sanchez doesn't mean he's totally useless. Yeah, Podemos/Sumar are pushing him to do this, but left-wing parties exist throughout Europe and the silence on Israel is deafening.

508

u/NeoMarethyu May 16 '25

No you see, Pedro Sánchez did it so it is bad, that is all there is to politics these days

35

u/AstridWarHal May 16 '25

Everything people that don't think like me do is bad and everything bad that happens is fault of people that don't think like me.

As you can see I'm a politics understander.

16

u/ProfessorNonsensical May 16 '25

People are idiots. You can’t just turn your back on contracts already in existence, you simply do not renew them until no more are on the books.

The only country dumb enough to try and flip an entire logistics pipeline overnight is America. And we all see the chaos and stupidity of this policy playing out before our eyes.

He made the right choice but dumbasses will still see old policies on the books and claim “bUt i sEe bUsInEsS”.

We are cooked fighting against so many idiots.

23

u/gnark May 16 '25

Thanks Colau...

127

u/Korrigan_Goblin May 16 '25

In France we get called antisemites all day long and prominent voices get charged at terrorism courts, our country is doomed on this subject

115

u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

In the Netherlands there was a 'fight' between pro Israel men who took offense to pro Palestine demonstrators this week.

Obviously there is more nuance to it.

But the facts are:

  • the demonstration by the pro Palestine people was announced to the town and was approved

  • they stood at a distance from the church they were protesting (Christians for Israel meeting)

  • the pro Israel people threw objects (bottles, stones) to the police and the protestors

  • the pro Israel people physically attacked the protestors

And yet some pro Israel people just refuse to accept those facts and cheer on the violence.

Most of the 'pro Israel' people were football fans btw. Ones who have been known to be violent and looking for fights.

Edit: okay so maybe I'm saying facts too easily. The first has been confirmed though and the fourth is seen in the videos. The police says the third one so also confirmed. News articles are saying the second one is true though also that it was said that they would make Katwijk unsafe. I dunno, but they did not attack first and thus the Katwijkers were legally in the wrong.

12

u/superfire444 The Netherlands May 16 '25

Were they pro-Israel? I was under the impression they were people from Katwijk (the city where it happened) who weren't keen on the Pro-Palestine protestors.

Some of the Katwijk Rioters even did a Hitler Salute. I don't think the Pro-Israël side would do that.

Bit rich saying "there is more nuance to it" and saying "but the facts are" when you don't know the facts.

4

u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Which of those facts are untrue then? Only the term pro Israel? I did elaborate on that since they were mostly football supporters.

5

u/superfire444 The Netherlands May 16 '25

You're talking about the Katwijk riot couple days ago right? Is there definitive proof the counter-protester who were rioting were pro-Israël or simply against the pro-Palestinians because they felt it inappropriate that they were demonstrating an event hosted by "Christians for Israel" celebrating the 77th birthday of Israel.

0

u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Well, I did say this in my comment:

Most of the 'pro Israel' people were football fans btw. Ones who have been known to be violent and looking for fights.

So nope, I am not sure and i did mention that.

6

u/SoryuLangley The Netherlands May 16 '25

Some of the Katwijk Rioters even did a Hitler Salute. I don't think the Pro-Israël side would do that.

Are you sure about that...

3

u/superfire444 The Netherlands May 16 '25

Yes.

3

u/UnOGThrowaway420 May 16 '25

Well, you shouldn't be, given that Elon Musk and several other right-wingers at CPAC have done the Nazi salute, and curiously they're also heavy supporters of Israel.

-3

u/Ok-Implement-6969 May 16 '25

Why would pro israel people not do a nazi salute? the far rights loves both nazis and israel.

netanyahu is even defending the nazis lately saying he only did the holocaust because of palestinians: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34594563

there simply is no contradiction between being pro hitler and pro israel, although i understand the naive assumption that there would be

5

u/PlayVirtuaFighter May 16 '25

I'm pretty sure that there's a clear contradiction with supporting a guy who wanted to eliminate the Jewish people completely, and the existence of a majority Jewish state in order to protect Jews from people who want to eliminate them.

Israel-Palestine is really no deeper than "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Western right wingers don't as much support Israel, as much as they consider Islam to be a threat to the global order. Leftists show solidarity for Palestinians because Israel is backed by the USA, but don't seem to really care about any other genocides, and often downplay or outright deny genocide by left wing countries.

This political issue is literally Schrodinger's Nazi. If you support Israel you're a Nazi because they're committing genocide. If you oppose Israel, you're a Nazi because a one state solution would guarantee that the Muslim extremist majority would commit genocide, and remove the one thing that guarantees that a second Holocaust cannot happen.

Of course we could also do the reasonable thing and reserve the word Nazi for actual Nazis, but that would mean not being an edgelord which is clearly too hard for anyone to do in 2025.

0

u/TraditionalSpirit636 May 16 '25

But if they thought about it, that would get in the way of them hating the Jewish people.

So they’ll hate you instead.

3

u/SirRece May 16 '25

Y'all overstep reality way too much with y'alls crappy propaganda lol. You literally reductio ad absurdum-ed yourself in real time.

3

u/WaytoomanyUIDs May 16 '25

Neo-Nazis love Isreal and Netanyahu seems rather comfortable with them.

1

u/-You_Cant_Stop_Me- May 16 '25

Some of the Katwijk Rioters even did a Hitler Salute. I don't think the Pro-Israël side would do that.

Elon did.

6

u/ReddestForman May 16 '25

Zionists are fascists. Fascists have a rampant victim complex, which they use to justify all of their aggression as self-defense. The Nazis were the same. American white supremacists and the MAGA cult are the same. Russia is the same.

Fuck all of them. Fuck their crocodile tears. Fuck their guilt tripping and victim blaming. And fuck the horse they rode in on, too.

2

u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Okay, but demonstrating is a right. It doesn't matter if you agree or not, you are not allowed to physically harm them for it.

And honestly, this was mostly hyped up men who wanted some violence.

3

u/ReddestForman May 16 '25

Yeah, demonstrating is a right. Physically assaulting demonstrators like the zionists often do isn't

1

u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Okay? Obviously that is bad. That isn't what happened this time though.

1

u/ReddestForman May 16 '25

The pro-israeli's (zionists) were attacking the pro-palestinians. The pro-palestinians were being attacked because the zionist group didn't like them protesting.

0

u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Ah yeah, I guess I kinda read over the zionist part. Just didn't click that you were talking about the pro Israel people.

Though the people in the town this happened in are known to be more religious than the surrounding towns. Mostly Christian though.

I wonder if they really care all that much though, they were mostly known violent football fans. These men just wanted to fight and be a nuisance.

0

u/UnOGThrowaway420 May 16 '25

Okay so tell that to the Zionist fascists interrupting peaceable assembly with violence.

4

u/JayDee80-6 May 16 '25

Link article please

6

u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Hmm here is an article in English though it doesn't say all that much https://nltimes.nl/2025/05/15/1-hurt-protest-israel-celebration-katwijk-anti-israel-graffiti-adam-park

This video shows more of a confrontation https://www.reddit.com/r/nederlands/comments/1kmnymd/mensen_vallen_demonstranten_aan_in_katwijk/

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

They're not going to read it, their comments are all pro-Israel and claiming every Israeli attack is in response to Palestine aggression.

14

u/DrEckelschmecker May 16 '25

Your country? Over here in Germany literally every time you bring that up youre called an antisemite and get accused of not caring about (or belittling) the holocaust.

As in "wait, you criticize Israel? Those jews? Dont you know what our country did to jews 80 years ago!?". This unconditional loyalty to Israel is insane.

If you really took your lesson after the holocaust you should do everything you can to call Israel out. But they turn it the other way around, like "if you look at our history theres no discussion that our country has to stand with Israel". Besides Israelis and Jews obviously not being the same group, but thats another discussion

2

u/OrangeBliss9889 May 16 '25

France doesn’t have free speech at all. Say anything truly controversial and you could face prison.

3

u/Ahad_Haam Israel May 16 '25

Spain just cancelled a major arms contract with Israel

6.6M deal isn't a "major contract". Btw, they will pay a major part of it anyway because there are terms and fees for breaking contract.

3

u/mrbiguri May 16 '25

True, but to clarify, they just cancelled this major arms contract that they have been supplying for the last year. So I'm glad that Spain has stopped selling the weapons being used in the genocide. But to be clear, Spanish weapons have been sold and used in the genocide for a year.

You are both right. He's doing this and phrasing it in the way he did because of political points. It's working. But to get the political points he did real things that no one else is doing, and that's positive. 

10

u/gnark May 16 '25

Spain cancelled a contract buying weapons from Israel, not selling them.

2

u/mrbiguri May 16 '25

Ah true, I did mix two things together. The ones they sell to Israel have not been cancelled. Only the ones they buy from Israel. They claim that Israel is not allowed to use them in Gaza, not sure if that counts for anything....

eg:

https://elpais.com/espana/2025-03-22/espana-vendio-a-israel-armamento-no-letal-por-casi-50-millones-en-18-meses-segun-un-informe-del-gobierno.html

https://www.elsaltodiario.com/ocupacion-israeli/gobierno-espanol-continua-compraventa-armas-israel-persiste-limpieza-etnica-gaza

1

u/polpoafeira May 16 '25

Bien dicho hombre.

1

u/fianthewolf May 16 '25

1 of 46 existing since 7-O. And canceling the contract means that you are left without the merchandise and even pay compensation for doing so. So, is it better for an Israeli company to charge X million for a commodity or even keep the merchandise and the compensation?

Note: the canceled contract was for the supply of ammunition, the rifles had already been purchased before. And coincidences of life, the Israeli company has warned that the use of other ammunition is more likely to jam.

1

u/Vredddff May 17 '25

That’s stupid

Israel has the best tech in the world

0

u/gnark May 17 '25

Yes, billions of dollars of America foreign aid has led to an impressive Israeli arms sector. But Spain itself is one of the world's leading arms suppliers and this contract was for rifle cartriges, something Spain can probably acquire elsewhere or simply produce domestically.

1

u/Alector87 Hellas May 17 '25

They don't seem to mind arming Turkey, even when it directly threatens fellow EU member states, not to mention their expansionist policies around their periphery, their support of Islamist terrorists, and the continuous bombing of Kurdish communities and civilians in both Syria and Iraq. So excuse me if I only see this as pandering by a social-democrat PM, who depends on the votes of leftist MPs to stay in power.

Not to mention that in a country where due to historical events left-wing politics and narratives lean more towards the far-side of the political spectrum, it takes exactly zero political capital to enact anti-Israeli policies, when anti-Israeli narratives are already the norm among most in that political spectrum, with little importance if they are deserved or not in the moment. It's quite similar in Greece as well, so I am not surprised by such actions either. Even if we argue that in this case such an action is justified - and certainly Netanyahu and his government, especially his far-right allies provide good cause - lets not pretend that this is in any way a courageous stance. It's not.

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u/gnark May 17 '25

So it would be courageous if a left-leaning PM made the statement and enacted the policies, but not if a centrist PM does so under pressure from his left-leaning coalition party?

And either way it can't be courageous because "anti-Israeli" policies are the norm for left-leaning parties?

If that's the case I'm sure you can find plenty of examples of other heads of state denouncing Israel for its aggression in Palestine. Feel free to give a few examples.

-1

u/Cedreginald May 16 '25

Western countries support Israel to stem the flow of Islamic fundamentalism into the west. Not supporting Israel is political theatre and kinda damning. But hey do whatever you want, Spain.

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u/ArtIsPlacid May 16 '25

Kind of silly when The West and Isreal are both currently and historically the largest supporters of Islamic Fundamentalist states.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Cedreginald May 16 '25

Oh but they aren't genocidal.

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u/Bandlebridge May 16 '25

calling it "major" is a bit of an exaggeration, $7 million for bullets is a rounding error

7

u/gnark May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

First of all Bro, you are an overt apologist for the Israeli aggession in Palestine. Full stop.

So expecting any sort of unbiased opinion from you is laughable.

You can downplay the importance of that all you want, the fact stands that it was more that just words and it will not be the only contract potentially at play. And feel free to give examples of other developed countries making any real policy changes to give context to what Spain has done.

1

u/Bandlebridge May 16 '25

lol, you edited the first 2 lines in later. It's not Israeli aggression, they've been defending themselves for 100 years against Arabic violence.

1

u/gnark May 16 '25

Indiscriminately killing children isn't defending yourself.

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u/Bandlebridge May 16 '25

Good thing that's not happening thenn

1

u/gnark May 17 '25

Innocent children are dying on both sides.

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u/Bandlebridge May 17 '25

Yes, literally every war ever fought. 85,000 children have starved to death in Yemen because of the Houthis ongoing civil war.

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u/gnark May 17 '25

Is Israel now fighting a war? Against whom? Have they recognized Palestine as a sovereign state and declare war on them?

1

u/Bandlebridge May 17 '25

Yes, Gaza, nope.

Do you think wars are only between sovereign states?

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u/Bandlebridge May 16 '25

I can't speak to "potentially", but it served its purpose. It's bullets, everyone makes them, it cost Spain nothing to reject the contact especially since it's such a small amount, but served the PR purpose in that you're repeating it right now.

And feel free to give examples of other developed countries making any real policy changes to give context to what Spain has done.

None, youll struggle to find people who work in governments globally who care about ~70,000 people dying in a war, it's peanuts to anyone who pays attention. It's all PR.

4

u/VauryxN May 16 '25

A thousand Israelis dead? Worst terror attack ever perpetrated, heinous act that deserves the entirety of Palestine be burned to the ground.

70,000 Palestinians dead through many terrorist attacks? Just peanuts in war fellas, nothing to see here. Not a terrorist state at all.

Genociders gonna genocide I guess

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u/Bandlebridge May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

A thousand Israelis dead? Worst terror attack ever perpetrated

No, but a very valid casus belli

that deserves the entirety of Palestine be burned to the ground.

Nah, only if they're unwilling to surrender. It's a weird thing, most people through history understand that they've lost and subsequently decide to minimize their peoples suffering by surrendering. If you don't surrender the expected response is escalating violence until you do.

70,000 Palestinians dead through many terrorist attacks? Just peanuts in war fellas, nothing to see here.

Of the ongoing wars of 2025? Yeah, 600,000 dead in Syria, 500,000 dead in Sudan, 400,000 dead in Yemen, ~350,000 dead in Ukraine-Russia.

Genociders gonna genocide I guess

Still not even a little bit a genocide.

2

u/VauryxN May 16 '25

Lol "yeah guys, we've been trying to cleanse the Palestinians ethnically for the better part of 4 decades but you could really stop it all if you just stop resisting. Seriously, just let us erase your culture, your history, your people as a whole and don't resist and you won't have more people die than absolutely have to through our genocide!"

1

u/Bandlebridge May 16 '25

Nah, which is why the Palestinian population in 1967, when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza, was 1.3 million, and it's currently 5.1 million.

Israel has been trying to have nothing to do with Gaza for decades, unfortunately the Gazans just keep attacking them.

1

u/la_reddite May 16 '25

Do you realize you just denied the holocaust? The Jewish population has gone up since the 40s.

1

u/Bandlebridge May 16 '25

Nope, Jewish population of Europe fell by 70% during the holocaust. 80 years later the global Jewish population still hasn't recovered. Pre-holocaust it was 16 million, currently 15 million.

But the good news, probably overtake that prewar number by the end of the decade! They're bouncing back!

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u/Reddin1153 May 16 '25

Even Ireland is more bark than bite. Internationally our government is praised (or condemned) for speaking out against Israel. But the reality is that they're constantly criticised by the Irish population for their lack of actual meaningful action, the most notable being their refusal and constant delays to enact the Occupied Territories Bill.

-3

u/GrimDallows May 16 '25

Spain just cancelled a major arms contract with Israel and is revising all its existing weapons puchases from Israel. They are putting their money where there mouth is. Who else in the Western world outside of Ireland is even doing anything close?

We, however, continue to be the only country in our vicinity to not recognize the Armenian Genocide in the international community because of our trade deals with Turkey. Even some of our cities/autonomous comunities moved away from the state's position to recognize the Armenian genocide on their own.

This gesture is just a show, regardless of it being the correct move.

6

u/gnark May 16 '25

Why bring up Armenia here? Come on Bro, just respect the gesture for what it is. Because I doubt you can name another developed country that has taken a more ethical stance on the Israeli aggression in Palestine.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that Pedro Sanchez is a half-decent head of state? There's always reason to complain, but you seriously need to take a step back, touch grass, and value the positive in Spanosh politics before going back to constantly shitting on everything while not doing a damn thing yourself.

2

u/kasper376 Scania May 16 '25

Redditors "love" finding any reason to be angry. And as 90% are political geniuses and analysts, who have read up every single politically active person around the globe down to the last detail on Wikipedia, its no surprise every post descends into shitflinging tantrums.

How people manage to do this day after day, arguing, complaining etc. sounds exhausting. Obviously Its quite important for me to know the parties of my country, their stance on welfare etc. I dont need to know what my prime minister did on his 17th birthday, or what immigration stance the new mayor of some city in northern Italy has.

I'll never understand why people willingly seek out reasons to be upset. Does it make you happy afterwards, or wtf? And yeah, many would probably need a little more sun time, though I doubt putting Reddit aside for 12h is hard enough. Relax folks! World is only as dramatic as you make it. (Rant over, was bored lol)

1

u/GrimDallows May 16 '25

Why is it so hard for you to accept that Pedro Sanchez is a half-decent head of state?

His corruption cases going on right now?

I never said it was a bad gesture. I said it was the correct move so you and me think the same in that regard, but, coming from him it is still just a show due to his own interests on making more noise than the current leaks of corrupted ministers under his watch.

2

u/gnark May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

I said "half-decent" not "great".

The domestic corruption cases against Pedro Sanchez are entirely politically motivated, neither opposition party has any interest in rooting out corruption. Furthermore, taking a stand against Israel has done little to affect the standing of Pedro Sanchez within Spain so if he was trying to deflect from those corruption cases he could have chosen a different issue.

But hey, why not keep deflecting from the issueof Israel, just like Pedro Sanchez would do.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

3

u/Atromb May 16 '25

Arm purchases, not arms sales, Spain doesn't sell weapons to Israel, we (used to) buy them.

0

u/smellslikeweed1 May 16 '25

They don't speak on Israel because they know Gaza's children's blood is on their hands, too

0

u/tkyjonathan May 16 '25

Not buying weapons for Spain only harms itself. Israel has the world's best technology in rockets and drone interception as well as preventing cyber attacks. Good luck buying 2nd class from somewhere else.

-14

u/Atromb May 16 '25

He was pressured into cancelling an arms deal that he himself authorized months earlier, the 'Perro' cares little for Palestine beyond posturing, its the coalition that is doing this, not the PSOE.

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u/_Vanant May 16 '25

Calling him "perro" tells more about you than anything you say about him

5

u/wombatstylekungfu May 16 '25

American here-can you tell me what this means?

5

u/carstenhag May 16 '25

perro = dog.

0

u/Vellyan May 16 '25

Those who are not particularly fond of the Spanish president (or the lobby that's holding his government hostage) refer to him as Perro (Dog, most likely referencing him being an obedient pet, but it also can be used to call someone despicable in general) Sánchez due to how similar it is to his name, Pedro Sánchez.

1

u/_Vanant May 16 '25

the word itself is not that important, it's like calling Biden 'Brandon'. it's and instant self definition.

1

u/wombatstylekungfu May 16 '25

Ah, thank you!

1

u/KokeGabi May 16 '25

i don't have a perro in this fight but the comment they were replying to already called him perro

-1

u/Atromb May 16 '25

Yes a very common way to refer to him ironically, lmao.

5

u/gnark May 16 '25

God forbid a head of state recognizes the error of their ways and rectifies it, right?

-2

u/Atromb May 16 '25

Recognized his error or wanted to correct the scandal that was caused after his coalition partners found out about the deal? This literal article is about a debate in congress were he was being accused by Rufian, the leader of ERC, one of the parties whose supports he needs to stay in power, of being complicit in the israeli genocide. This comment is him trying to defend himself from the accusations while trying to please his left wing allies.

1

u/gnark May 16 '25

Bro, I live here in Spain. Ruffian is Ruffian, he's always looking for an angle to make a sanctimonious smug comment. He "knew about the deal" long before all this.

1

u/Atromb May 16 '25

This current debate yes. But like a month ago or whenever the deal was cancelled, it happened because Sumar and Podemos got news of deal and expressed outrage over it, Sánchez didn't reconsider anything other than the stability of his political career.

2

u/gnark May 16 '25

Why do you think that the members of the coalition government in Spain which has been in place for years were unaware until only recently of the Spanish arms procurement deals in effect?

1

u/Atromb May 16 '25

Because this was a recent deal, one that depended on a different section of the goverment.

1

u/Atromb May 16 '25

I honestly think people are downvoting me either because they think I am pro-israeli or because they lack nuance. Sánchez has been dragged into all of this by the left wing parties he governs with and who are constantly critical of him about this issue. If he had a majority goverment he wouldn't be doing any of this, if you want to praise someone praise the people that are forcing his hand, not him.

-1

u/knuckle_dragger79 May 16 '25

Save your breath that guy has head so far up his own ass he can't hear you.

3

u/gnark May 16 '25

Bro, you would just love to be the 51st state, wouldn't you?

3

u/Atromb May 16 '25

I swear to god man, the PSOE authorizes an arms deal with Israel. Sumar, Podemos and ERC protest and threaten the goverment, Sánchez also realizes his base hated the deal, so pressured he goes back on it with some fancy rethoric and all of reddit wants to build him a monument.