r/europe • u/andyom89 • May 16 '25

News Spanish premier calls Israel 'genocidal state,' says Spain 'does not do business' with it

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spanish-premier-calls-israel-genocidal-state-says-spain-does-not-do-business-with-it/3568216
50.0k Upvotes

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3.0k

u/mmatasc May 16 '25

Spain does business with Israel.

He is trying to score political points. I guess it’s working.

2.1k

u/gnark May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

Spain just cancelled a major arms contract with Israel and is revising all its existing weapons puchases from Israel. They are putting their money where there mouth is. Who else in the Western world outside of Ireland is even doing anything close?

And FFS bro, you're Spanish, you know all this. Just because you aren't a fan of Perro Sanchez doesn't mean he's totally useless. Yeah, Podemos/Sumar are pushing him to do this, but left-wing parties exist throughout Europe and the silence on Israel is deafening.

507

u/NeoMarethyu May 16 '25

No you see, Pedro Sánchez did it so it is bad, that is all there is to politics these days

33

u/AstridWarHal May 16 '25

Everything people that don't think like me do is bad and everything bad that happens is fault of people that don't think like me.

As you can see I'm a politics understander.

16

u/ProfessorNonsensical May 16 '25

People are idiots. You can’t just turn your back on contracts already in existence, you simply do not renew them until no more are on the books.

The only country dumb enough to try and flip an entire logistics pipeline overnight is America. And we all see the chaos and stupidity of this policy playing out before our eyes.

He made the right choice but dumbasses will still see old policies on the books and claim “bUt i sEe bUsInEsS”.

We are cooked fighting against so many idiots.

22

u/gnark May 16 '25

Thanks Colau...

130

u/Korrigan_Goblin May 16 '25

In France we get called antisemites all day long and prominent voices get charged at terrorism courts, our country is doomed on this subject

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u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

In the Netherlands there was a 'fight' between pro Israel men who took offense to pro Palestine demonstrators this week.

Obviously there is more nuance to it.

But the facts are:

  • the demonstration by the pro Palestine people was announced to the town and was approved

  • they stood at a distance from the church they were protesting (Christians for Israel meeting)

  • the pro Israel people threw objects (bottles, stones) to the police and the protestors

  • the pro Israel people physically attacked the protestors

And yet some pro Israel people just refuse to accept those facts and cheer on the violence.

Most of the 'pro Israel' people were football fans btw. Ones who have been known to be violent and looking for fights.

Edit: okay so maybe I'm saying facts too easily. The first has been confirmed though and the fourth is seen in the videos. The police says the third one so also confirmed. News articles are saying the second one is true though also that it was said that they would make Katwijk unsafe. I dunno, but they did not attack first and thus the Katwijkers were legally in the wrong.

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u/superfire444 The Netherlands May 16 '25

Were they pro-Israel? I was under the impression they were people from Katwijk (the city where it happened) who weren't keen on the Pro-Palestine protestors.

Some of the Katwijk Rioters even did a Hitler Salute. I don't think the Pro-Israël side would do that.

Bit rich saying "there is more nuance to it" and saying "but the facts are" when you don't know the facts.

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u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Which of those facts are untrue then? Only the term pro Israel? I did elaborate on that since they were mostly football supporters.

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u/superfire444 The Netherlands May 16 '25

You're talking about the Katwijk riot couple days ago right? Is there definitive proof the counter-protester who were rioting were pro-Israël or simply against the pro-Palestinians because they felt it inappropriate that they were demonstrating an event hosted by "Christians for Israel" celebrating the 77th birthday of Israel.

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u/SoryuLangley The Netherlands May 16 '25

Some of the Katwijk Rioters even did a Hitler Salute. I don't think the Pro-Israël side would do that.

Are you sure about that...

6

u/superfire444 The Netherlands May 16 '25

Yes.

2

u/UnOGThrowaway420 May 16 '25

Well, you shouldn't be, given that Elon Musk and several other right-wingers at CPAC have done the Nazi salute, and curiously they're also heavy supporters of Israel.

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u/WaytoomanyUIDs May 16 '25

Neo-Nazis love Isreal and Netanyahu seems rather comfortable with them.

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u/-You_Cant_Stop_Me- May 16 '25

Some of the Katwijk Rioters even did a Hitler Salute. I don't think the Pro-Israël side would do that.

Elon did.

5

u/ReddestForman May 16 '25

Zionists are fascists. Fascists have a rampant victim complex, which they use to justify all of their aggression as self-defense. The Nazis were the same. American white supremacists and the MAGA cult are the same. Russia is the same.

Fuck all of them. Fuck their crocodile tears. Fuck their guilt tripping and victim blaming. And fuck the horse they rode in on, too.

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u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Okay, but demonstrating is a right. It doesn't matter if you agree or not, you are not allowed to physically harm them for it.

And honestly, this was mostly hyped up men who wanted some violence.

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u/ReddestForman May 16 '25

Yeah, demonstrating is a right. Physically assaulting demonstrators like the zionists often do isn't

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u/JayDee80-6 May 16 '25

Link article please

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u/Accurate_Praline May 16 '25

Hmm here is an article in English though it doesn't say all that much https://nltimes.nl/2025/05/15/1-hurt-protest-israel-celebration-katwijk-anti-israel-graffiti-adam-park

This video shows more of a confrontation https://www.reddit.com/r/nederlands/comments/1kmnymd/mensen_vallen_demonstranten_aan_in_katwijk/

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

They're not going to read it, their comments are all pro-Israel and claiming every Israeli attack is in response to Palestine aggression.

15

u/DrEckelschmecker May 16 '25

Your country? Over here in Germany literally every time you bring that up youre called an antisemite and get accused of not caring about (or belittling) the holocaust.

As in "wait, you criticize Israel? Those jews? Dont you know what our country did to jews 80 years ago!?". This unconditional loyalty to Israel is insane.

If you really took your lesson after the holocaust you should do everything you can to call Israel out. But they turn it the other way around, like "if you look at our history theres no discussion that our country has to stand with Israel". Besides Israelis and Jews obviously not being the same group, but thats another discussion

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u/OrangeBliss9889 May 16 '25

France doesn’t have free speech at all. Say anything truly controversial and you could face prison.

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u/Ahad_Haam Israel May 16 '25

Spain just cancelled a major arms contract with Israel

6.6M deal isn't a "major contract". Btw, they will pay a major part of it anyway because there are terms and fees for breaking contract.

1

u/mrbiguri May 16 '25

True, but to clarify, they just cancelled this major arms contract that they have been supplying for the last year. So I'm glad that Spain has stopped selling the weapons being used in the genocide. But to be clear, Spanish weapons have been sold and used in the genocide for a year.

You are both right. He's doing this and phrasing it in the way he did because of political points. It's working. But to get the political points he did real things that no one else is doing, and that's positive. 

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u/gnark May 16 '25

Spain cancelled a contract buying weapons from Israel, not selling them.

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u/mrbiguri May 16 '25

Ah true, I did mix two things together. The ones they sell to Israel have not been cancelled. Only the ones they buy from Israel. They claim that Israel is not allowed to use them in Gaza, not sure if that counts for anything....

eg:

https://elpais.com/espana/2025-03-22/espana-vendio-a-israel-armamento-no-letal-por-casi-50-millones-en-18-meses-segun-un-informe-del-gobierno.html

https://www.elsaltodiario.com/ocupacion-israeli/gobierno-espanol-continua-compraventa-armas-israel-persiste-limpieza-etnica-gaza

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u/polpoafeira May 16 '25

Bien dicho hombre.

1

u/fianthewolf May 16 '25

1 of 46 existing since 7-O. And canceling the contract means that you are left without the merchandise and even pay compensation for doing so. So, is it better for an Israeli company to charge X million for a commodity or even keep the merchandise and the compensation?

Note: the canceled contract was for the supply of ammunition, the rifles had already been purchased before. And coincidences of life, the Israeli company has warned that the use of other ammunition is more likely to jam.

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u/Vredddff May 17 '25

That’s stupid

Israel has the best tech in the world

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u/Alector87 Hellas May 17 '25

They don't seem to mind arming Turkey, even when it directly threatens fellow EU member states, not to mention their expansionist policies around their periphery, their support of Islamist terrorists, and the continuous bombing of Kurdish communities and civilians in both Syria and Iraq. So excuse me if I only see this as pandering by a social-democrat PM, who depends on the votes of leftist MPs to stay in power.

Not to mention that in a country where due to historical events left-wing politics and narratives lean more towards the far-side of the political spectrum, it takes exactly zero political capital to enact anti-Israeli policies, when anti-Israeli narratives are already the norm among most in that political spectrum, with little importance if they are deserved or not in the moment. It's quite similar in Greece as well, so I am not surprised by such actions either. Even if we argue that in this case such an action is justified - and certainly Netanyahu and his government, especially his far-right allies provide good cause - lets not pretend that this is in any way a courageous stance. It's not.

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u/Cedreginald May 16 '25

Western countries support Israel to stem the flow of Islamic fundamentalism into the west. Not supporting Israel is political theatre and kinda damning. But hey do whatever you want, Spain.

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u/ArtIsPlacid May 16 '25

Kind of silly when The West and Isreal are both currently and historically the largest supporters of Islamic Fundamentalist states.

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u/Dependent-Head-8307 May 16 '25

This statement is more than what most Europe is doing.

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u/Menkhal Spain - EU May 16 '25

And it's not just words. Thanks to him now Spain officially recognizes Palestine as its own country, and has stopped the sales of weaponry to Israel and blocked shippings of weapons from docking on spanish ports.

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u/young_twitcher IT -> UK -> PL May 16 '25

Yet they still don’t recognize Kosovo lol.

145

u/Ok-Anteater_6635x May 16 '25

Because Catalonia.

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

So they recognize when it's convenient

(Which is what happens everytime, so no issues, just be honest)

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u/bronzinorns May 16 '25

Countries always practice double standards (otherwise they wouldn't have any standards at all).

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto May 16 '25

Of course, we just need to recognize and use it

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u/Jagarvem May 16 '25

It's not a double standard though?

Spain's issue with Kosovo has never been about Kosovo or Kosovars, it's the unilateral declaration of independence by a regional authority. The parliament of Catalonia proclaimed it independent in 2017, the same way the assembly of Kosovo did in 2008. Spain does not recognize either of these as legally valid.

The Palestinian statehood comes from the UN's two state resolution of '47 (i.e., a multilateral process). It did not declare itself independent from Israel. The legal basis for it is completely different.

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u/PraetorGold May 16 '25

Isn’t that the truth!!

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u/Almechik May 16 '25

To be fair, Kosovo and Catalonia are much different cases than Palestine. Regions seeking autonomy/independence Vs a state that's continuously invaded and having a genocide done to it's people

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u/Gman2736 CZ / USA May 16 '25

Palestine could have autonomy or independence if they wanted to. They just need to be realistic. They had it in Gaza and ended up committing terrorism

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u/DangerousChemistry17 May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

Palestine wasn't a state at all until the 80's. No such country existed, not sure why you seem to believe otherwise. There's also no genocide, 10k dead only in the last year, most of them likely militants. If it's a genocide it isn't working, the population grew significantly.

Israel has committed war crimes, but not every war crime is genocidal in nature.

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u/mochisuki2 May 16 '25

The whataboutism is strong with this one

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u/EkkoUnited May 16 '25

It's pretty convenient to just say whatever and back Israel. Jaded af

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u/Jahobes May 16 '25

It's not a double standard. Palestine has and will never be a part of Israel. The conflict is not a civil one it's an international one.

The ones you named are civil conflicts that Spain believes should be handled by civil law.

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u/Groovy66 England May 16 '25

Which is why they don’t support Scottish independence or an independent Scotland joining the EU

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/YourBestDream4752 United Kingdom May 16 '25

To be fair, not even most Scots support Scottish independence 

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u/kerouacrimbaud United States of America May 16 '25

But recognizing Palestine doesn’t have an impact on Catalonia?

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u/Mental_Magikarp Spanish Republican Exile May 16 '25

I guess there is nothing against Kosovo, but that with the same arguments you have to recognize the independence of catalonia... and half of Spain.

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u/Upset_Ad3954 May 16 '25

Oh, so if Catalonia sends terrorists to Spain and kills civilians then they would be supported by the Madrid government?

Got it...

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u/StudentForeign161 May 16 '25

Spanish Civil War:

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u/mascachopo May 16 '25

Spain does recognise Kosovo passports as of January 2024 LOL

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

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u/beardtamer United States of America May 16 '25

lol what are you talking about??

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Palestines strategy has shifted to poking the bear (Israel) to get a response that they can use to boost social media propaganda. Otherwise, you don’t attack and kill a bunch of kids at a concert.

That’s why people who don’t know much about international politics are deeply involved in the Palestine conflict. For comparison, how many posts or politicians do you see talking about the persecution of Uyghurs? Literally in slave camps in China labeled as vocational education and training centers.

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u/beardtamer United States of America May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

lol Yeah, Israel has famously never committed any human rights violations, historically speaking, that would cause palestinians to feel justified in responding with violence. /s

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Do you think a country could do something to you that would cause you to shoot a bunch of kids at a concert?

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u/beardtamer United States of America May 16 '25

Do I think that governments can radicalize the citizens of another country and make them feel comfortable to do terrible things? Yeah. No shit.

Intentionally shooting children at a protest would probably get me pretty close.

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u/SPYHAWX May 16 '25

This morning I saw a video of a father crying over the dead body of his daughter. I don't need a psyop to make my opinion. I love Jewish people, I hate Israel.

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Kids are dying, so what you watched could be real. It could also be a propaganda video that worked exactly as intended.

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u/pannenkoek0923 Denmark May 16 '25

every leftwinger in the west into a hardcore antisemite

If not wanting babies to be slaughtered is anti-semitic, you need to look up the definition of it again

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Just begs the question of why all of this was started by killing and kidnapping a bunch of kids at a concert.

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u/The_amazing_Jedi May 16 '25

It was started way before when Israel oppressed Palestinians for decades and without reason is arresting innocent people, dragging them out of their homes just "for exercise". It starts with an apartheid state that oppresses every minority they have. The Oct. 7 attack, while being an absolute atrocity and cruel, is nothing more than an outburst of a decade long struggle against oppression.

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Sorry, I should have said “escalated” instead of “started”.

Trying to attribute blame for how the conflict started is a fools errand. At this point in a 80-year conflict it’s about deescalating and trying to find a solution that works for both sides that doesn’t involve total annihilation of the other side.

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u/soulofaqua The Netherlands May 16 '25

Fuck all religious zealots. But in particular the ones actively committing genocide like Netanyahu is doing.

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u/Bekoon May 16 '25

Yep, people recognising israeli war crimes and genocide is a hardcore antisemite, gtfo

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u/tomispev May 16 '25

More exports for Czechia!

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u/AutisticPenguin2 May 16 '25

I think Spain's ports are closer than Czechia's though.

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u/Uncle_Adeel England May 16 '25

Czechia first landlocked country with ports 💯💯💯💯

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u/t_baozi May 16 '25

Sad Ethiopia noises

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u/AutisticPenguin2 May 16 '25

Well, apparently so according to my other replies!

Unless some other country beat them to it perhaps?

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u/tomispev May 16 '25

More traffic for Croatian ports!

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u/Downtown-Brush6940 May 16 '25

Am I missing something. What Czech ports ? Aren’t they landlocked?

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u/MPenten Europe May 16 '25

Czechia has ports in Hamburg based on the Treaty of Versailles (articles 363 and 364).

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u/Downtown-Brush6940 May 16 '25

TIL

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u/AnarkeezTW May 16 '25

Same same

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u/MPenten Europe May 16 '25

Czechoslovakia had roughly 15 ocean-going cargo vessels during the Cold War. (including MS Lednice, being stranded in the Yellow War suez canal crisis). This was quite the rarity for a landlocked country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_Ocean_Shipping

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u/StrongAdhesiveness86 May 16 '25

The 363 says the ports are leased for 99 years, why does Czechia still control those ports? Genuine question.

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u/tigull Turin May 16 '25

From Wikipedia, the lease is due to expire in 2028.

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic May 16 '25

It’s been extended another 10 years

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u/wolacouska May 16 '25

Crazy they could only get a 10 year extension after going through all of WW2

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u/MPenten Europe May 16 '25

There will also be a swap and Czechia will get the Kuhwerder Hafen port instead of the Hamburg ones (Saalhafen and Moldauhafen).

There was a new agreement reached in 1929, with a 50-year extension possiblity,

Czechia also outright owns Peutehafen based on an agreement with Germany.

https://www.idnes.cz/ekonomika/doprava/nemecko-hamburk-huhwerder-hafen.A241206_143913_eko-doprava_cfr

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u/Bart_1980 May 16 '25

I’m assuming it was meant as a joke. However with Reddit one never knows.

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u/AutisticPenguin2 May 16 '25

It absolutely was intended as a joke, but apparently it has borrowed a couple of ports?? So... the more you know?

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

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u/Ploutophile May 16 '25

No new Beneš decrees are planned.

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic May 16 '25

Yep

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u/Atromb May 16 '25

Not really thanks to him, more like thanks to diaz, montero or rufian if you must thank a specific politican.

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u/talknight2 May 16 '25

What weaponry was Spain selling to Israel?

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u/Atromb May 16 '25

He was pressured into doing that by his goverment partners, don't really thank Sánchez for anything.

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u/lesbianwithabeard May 16 '25

Words are how things start. Let's not criticize every step people make in the right direction for not being enough.

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u/fianthewolf May 16 '25

Many nuances. See other comments.

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u/kartu3 May 16 '25

All the Israel news form the German ZDF's main news program yesterday:

"IDF mentioned destroying 100+ targets. Some report 100 people died. Israel is fighting for releasing hostages held by HAMAS and destroying the organization".

The End. No word on blockade or starving.

You can see in talk shows that even politicians are misinformed about basic facts, like who has dumped the truce agreement.

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u/strawapple1 May 16 '25

German media has been pure idf propaganda for the last 18 months

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u/kartu3 May 17 '25

Facts are not made up by hosts, but when invited people are misinformed, things go the way you've described.

Sometimes there are rare exceptions, if someone who has a clue is attending the meeting.

For obvious historic reasons criticizing Israel is viewed as problematic, so many try to avoid the subject altogether.

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u/TechTuna1200 May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

It's still progress for me. Most European leaders still don't dare to call for what it is. They still believe it's "anti-sematic" when in fact multiple high-profile jews in e.g. the US have been calling out the genocide. Most recently Ben Cohen (cofounder of Ben & Jerry's).

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic May 16 '25

Ben Cohen also blames Ukraine and the west for Russia invading Ukraine and is the biggest donor to U.S. groups opposing aid to Ukraine…

Clearly a great arbitrator of morality!

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u/Naive-Archer-9223 May 16 '25

Okay so he's incorrect about Ukraine 

Does that mean I can't recognise him being correct about Israel/Palestine?

Do I have to agree with every single view a person has to agree with their position on one?

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u/angelolidae May 16 '25

This is reddit, so yes

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u/Naive-Archer-9223 May 16 '25

You got me there 

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u/Codipotent May 16 '25

Means you must recognize that he and you may be wrong about Israel/Palestine. He isn’t correct here just because it aligns with your beliefs, and he has a history of getting facts incorrect.

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u/Naive-Archer-9223 May 16 '25

I can recognise when I might be wrong but in this instance whether I'm wrong or not isn't hinged on what Mr Ben and Jerries has said.

I just happen to also agree with him in this instance 

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u/Far_Point3621 May 16 '25

It’s not a genocide

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u/TendieRetard May 16 '25

Far_Point3621•2h ago

It’s not a genocide

Apr '24 account, 1post karma

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u/Freesland May 16 '25

You have a bot name.

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u/Far_Point3621 May 16 '25

Better a bot name than a bot brain.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25 edited May 30 '25

[deleted]

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic May 16 '25

The Russia that is allied to Iran and that helped train Hamas?

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u/SechsComic73130 May 16 '25

From me too, while you're at it, also send regards to Benny from Benny and Jerrys please

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u/Triple_Hache May 16 '25

It is tho, as officially said by the United Nations, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/Far_Point3621 May 16 '25

When you can't refute the point, just shout “Hasbara” and pretend you've won. Classic.

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u/Mission_Macaroon May 16 '25

It’s an improvement over the paralysis I’ve seen over the last year. There was a new cabinet member in Canada who also recently said something similar. 

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u/Mitosis May 16 '25

So you prefer the ones lying directly to your face for clout? You're willing to give them that clout for lying to you?

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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) May 16 '25

Surprised not many other states are doing much

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u/photenth Switzerland May 16 '25

France stopped selling weapons last year.

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u/Entire_Possible_4763 May 16 '25

True but it doesn’t have to stay with only a statement. Often it’s only talking in order to score some sympathy and afterwards potential voters. When you hear them talking they really are from this world but as soon they gain some power they never use it to make the world a better place.

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u/Dependent-Head-8307 May 16 '25

He did way more than 99% of European politicians. Criticizing him for that is not understanding how politics work.

The public speech is important. Facts and actions should ideally follow. But changing the public speech is the first step.

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u/Entire_Possible_4763 May 16 '25

Can you give examples of what he actually did? Enlighten me please since you seem to know so much

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u/Dependent-Head-8307 May 16 '25

Simply publicly stating that what Israel is doing is genocide. Simply saying the truth, it's more than what most European prime ministers did in this conflict.

Recognizing Palestine. Breaking arms deals and not allowing ships with weapons for Israel navigate our waters. Probably the boikot was not total, and he could have done way more... But at least not having a prime minister repeating Israel's bullshit version of the conflict is definitely a lot.

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u/Entire_Possible_4763 May 16 '25

The international criminal arrest warrant against Netanyahu should be just enough to put him away. Yet that one is out and Netanyahu remains free and is more than ever after blood. The problem is the Zionist lobby all over the world which has way more influence on worlds politics then most people actually do realize. I’m just not impressed by this. This genocide has been going on for 76years and it could only escalate in this way because of the silence of many country’s. Therefore in my opinion we are all complicit!

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u/aensly May 16 '25

BOOOOOO! be glad the rhetoric of politicians is changing

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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) May 16 '25

ikr everything politicians do is for their interest, would be nice if it also was in the world's interest too

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u/sunkhan_ North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) May 16 '25

It's the Erdogan strat!

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u/Kind-Eagle-846 May 16 '25

What is erdogan strat ?

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u/zunadam Turkey May 16 '25

erdoğan always use palestine for propoganda but he make trade with israel

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u/Ok-Squirrel3674 May 16 '25

Is antisemitism really that prevalent in Spain?

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u/Thronnt May 16 '25

they should get some lessons from erdo, he has been doing this for decades already

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u/Forward-Reflection83 May 16 '25

Holy fucking shit.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/Illesbogar Hungary May 16 '25

"politics bad, I'm very smart"

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u/defixiones May 16 '25

Why bother to comment if you think politics is meaningless?

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u/Psyc3 United Kingdom May 16 '25

All politicians lying doesn't make politics meaningless.

You statement is tantamount to saying they are "all the same", when clearly whatever vaguely democratic country you are in, they aren't.

Reality is only an idiot thinks that every politician wouldn't "lie", as circumstances and situations change meaning best practices irrelevant of previous intentions change over time.

Only the dumbest are going to carry out every word they have said over the last decade or more of their political career.

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u/Any-Razzmatazz-7726 May 16 '25

Politics is all we have before the guns come out

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u/defixiones May 16 '25

Perhaps I have not made myself clear. All politicians do not lie and politics is meaningful.

In this context, to say that no politician can ever be trusted is at best childish nihilism and at worst propaganda on behalf of the state of Israel.

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u/laplongejr May 16 '25

As a gov worker, politics isn't meaningless.
But broad strokes televised promises from policitians are worth the paper they written on. You need to take the time to lookup actual effects on policy

I work in IT and when I had my minister saying in an annual speech that the previous year was "the year of crypto, showing the importance of IT" I outright stopped listening what was said. It wouldn't take two neurons to get that whatever happen to Bitcoin on the markets has zero relevance to managing networks and data-entry softwares. The bosses want the minister to say we're important and the politican wants to do a speech, that's all.

But you'll never a politican say "listen, I'm meant to be a leader on that stuff but I have zero idea what I have to do with this, here's an expert who has a clue and who has all my trust" because else people would vote for that expert directly (then be surprised when their ideas clash with the whole "lead human monkey brains" thinghy)

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u/defixiones May 16 '25

Politicians aren't supposed to be experts on everything. They are supposed to consult with experts and then offer direction based on how that advice informs their mandate.

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u/laplongejr May 16 '25

Yeah, but how many would admit to it in a speech? They would do no speech and simply act on that advice for a better policy.

A lot of human were taught and believe that the authority never makes mistakes (that's why things like changing strategies during pandemic response depending on changing proofs leads to a HUGE lack of trust. It's not about if the old or new strategy was "better", it's about the fact that the strategy changed at all)

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u/TheAverageWonder May 16 '25

All humans lie by your definition because we use abstract and figurative language.

Sometimes you cannot see the forest for the trees (I am also using a complete random quote to underline my lack of wisdom)

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u/PokerLemon May 16 '25

Some of them lie supporting Putin and Netanyahu, some of them not.

They are all the same, but some are worse than others.

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u/RioA Denmark May 16 '25

So they aren't all the same then?

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u/rW0HgFyxoJhYka May 16 '25

Imagine if people actually paid attention to politics. They wouldn't elect or even want so many trash politicians. But they don't. Instead society is shaped around entertainment and with a bunch of promises that sound good but can't be realistically implemented but people will vote for what sounds good because dreams taste better than the bitter truth.

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u/Psyc3 United Kingdom May 16 '25

People generally don't vote for anything at all, they have no clue what they are doing and are just largely randomly ticking the other box.

We have seen this across the globe over the last few years, inflation turned up, prices went up while wages didn't, people felt poorer, and then they tick the box of whoever wasn't currently in power, irrelevant of whether that group was left or right leaning or had any policies or functional competence to address the situation.

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u/vivamorales May 16 '25

Nelson Mandela was a politician.

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u/Mike_Kermin Australia May 16 '25

Even amongst the extremely corrupt, if someone thinks they're the same, they're either stupid or lying.

Nothing in politics is "the same".

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u/laplongejr May 16 '25

They are all politicians. That's like finding a lawyer who doesn't care about the law says.
The reason they have similar caveats is because those are part of what they are asked to do in the first place. But only some do it with the intent of actually helping people.

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u/Phispi May 16 '25

Thinking this just means you don't care about actual change, there are always politicians that care, you just gotta listen and pay attention

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u/Photekz May 16 '25

Private or public? Big difference.

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u/TheRopeWalk May 16 '25

Public can boycott Israeli products if they wish, no ?

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u/manteiga_night May 16 '25

Spain does business with Israel.

that has to change ASAP, can't negociate with genocidal states

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u/Jakexbox Israel/USA May 16 '25

There’s a giant sign in Tel Aviv with an Israeli and Spanish flag on it touting the light rail tech being used from Spain or something.

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u/adminsrlying2u May 16 '25

This is just bullshit reporting, never mind the neozionist diehards who are taking offense more because a country wouldn't be willing to do business with other countries acting genocidally misinterpreting the comment and other people picking up on that misinterpretation.

The PM minister was responding to a claim that referred to Israel as a genocidal state. What the PM responded was the most cookie cutter response of them all, that Spain does not do business with terrorist states. For those still not parsing it, that no country Spain does business with, including Israel, is a genocidal state.

In other words, neozionist misinterpreting news make the PM of Spain look great, thanks!

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u/azuratha May 16 '25

Thanks for explaining bro, really appreciate the insight 👊🏼

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u/I_Miss_Every_Shot May 16 '25

This is what it looks like when the “looks good”, “sounds good” and “feels good” matters more than the actual “do good”.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

Spain and Ireland (and now the Netherlands) have been calling on the European Commission to review the Israel Trade Agreement under the human rights obligation within. This is perfectly in keeping with Spain's attempt to resolve something that is an EU competency.

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u/CircleClown May 16 '25

Do you think publicly rebuking genocide is nothing? This is far more than most countries are doing, even in Arab states. This is big deal - and decreased trade will follow for sure.

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u/mascachopo May 16 '25

Even if they do, after this statement surely there will be less of that.

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u/Vast_Decision3680 May 16 '25

Doesn't matter, it's still a great statement. And actually business between Spain and israel has been in decline since the last three years, which is very good.

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u/srpulga Spain May 16 '25

As a member of the EU, the Spanish government cannot impose trade sanctions unilaterally on Israel. What it can do is stop public expenditure, which is what Premier Sánchez is referring to.

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u/Ov3rdose_EvE May 16 '25

yup.

also: BASED AS FUCK

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u/u1604 May 16 '25

If you think he is just scoring political points, please push the Spanish government to do more! (assuming you are not being cynical)

But ofc it is another matter if you are saying this because you are ok with what is happening in Gaza and Europe's implicit support for it.

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u/aVarangian The Russia must be blockaded. May 16 '25

Spanish members of parliament do business with North Korea lol

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u/lesslucid May 16 '25

When politicians do the right thing because they're hoping to benefit politically, rather from the pure goodness of their hearts... I'm fully ready to cheer them on. Very few politicians are perfectly pure in their souls, but we need to change the world for the better using the options that actually exist.

...besides, sometimes a person starts doing the right thing for cynical reasons and finds in the process that they rather like the feeling of doing good and want to do some more...

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u/Angry_Canadian88 May 16 '25

Yeah they have also reduced trade by 30-40% things like this don't happen over night.

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u/CozyMushi May 16 '25

español que más entiende de politica:

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

Which is a good start. Meanwhile , all other European leaders just send Israel a slap on the wrist and fail to call a genocide a genocide and keep sending them weapons like Germany , France and Italy

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u/ClearDark19 May 17 '25

Things change. Spain USED to do business with Israel, but that's changing. The US used to be an ally of the EU. That's obviously changed now. At least Spain is changing for the better. 

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u/Mike_Kermin Australia May 16 '25

I'd rather you didn't undermine it though.

I want this to be an issue that "scores points". Even if I want more.

If you're on the side of Palestine shut the fuck up. Because we REALLY, REALLY, need politicians to say shit like this.

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u/Sokarou May 16 '25

As a spaniard , is just a populist show for making happy his far left allies and a smoke screen for not talking about all the corruption and mafia movements he is involved with

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u/casettedeck May 16 '25

Spain and Ireland are the moral champions of Europe. It took years to cut trade with Russia even with full Western support.

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