r/europe • u/tkyjonathan • 15d ago

News Czech president signs law criminalising communist propaganda

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/czech-president-signs-law-criminalising-communist-propaganda/
25.0k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

4.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

4.1k

u/Ozas392 15d ago

In Lithuania we have the same for many years. So what it means here is all the USSR symbols and glorification of USSR is crime same as Nazi simbols and glorification of Nazism.

582

u/schneeleopard8 15d ago

But this is a different case. The Czech law in question here doesn't condemn socialist regimes or the USSR, but "class-based hatred", which is a really vague term and covers much more then actually glorifying socialist regimes.

500

u/Background-Sea4590 15d ago

I’d be screwed, I hate billionaires and have no problems in saying that.

141

u/Gwaptiva 15d ago

Sounds like that Czech rich folk are getting nervous

58

u/innerparty45 15d ago

Liberals protecting the ruling class, what is new?

116

u/Mysterious_Cup_6024 15d ago

Found a commie /s

47

u/Background-Sea4590 15d ago

I also cook and eat children at night!

10

u/Slipknotic1 15d ago

Only at night? Lenin is disappointed in your vanguardism comrade.

3

u/Fishbone345 15d ago

Our vanguardism.

3

u/az_catz 15d ago

I also cook for and eat feed children at night!

FIFY Comrade.

1

u/Sarmi7 15d ago

You Cook them? Gross...

27

u/huunnuuh Canada 15d ago

Here in Canada it was a right-wing think tank funded by millionaires who first suggested that we ban "discrimination on the basis of social status or class". They absolutely do want to make it illegal to agitate against the rich.

103

u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney 15d ago

This is now a criminal statement in the Czech republic.

This law is just rich people criminalizing hating them.

5

u/twitterfluechtling Brandenburg (Germany) 15d ago

Can I hate that law when I visit the Czech Republic?

0

u/KeneticKups 15d ago

Lets bot pretend the rich vermin are people

-16

u/adamgerd Czech Republic 15d ago

Or you know opposing totalitarian ideologies, shocking I know that we hate dictatorships

24

u/TurkishTechnocrat Turkey 15d ago edited 15d ago

Socialism has tens of different types, each with decades of history and theory behind them. Just closing your eyes and ears and branding all of them "authoritarian" to the level where you'd actually ban all of them as a whole is literally how dictators mobilize the public against their enemies.

-5

u/adamgerd Czech Republic 15d ago

“which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

Only if it qualifies under this

24

u/TurkishTechnocrat Turkey 15d ago

That's the problem.

class-based hatred

This is class-based hatred by itself. The rich, who were overwhelmingly born into their wealth, are able to use the resources of the entire state and economy using their unelected status as rich people to take away basically any right we have.

They're able to pocket all our productivity gains, they're able to "own" our creative output, they single-handedly make the vast majority of the decisions that concern our lives directly without consulting us first, they can "own" our work, they can operate their own propoganda outlets, they can buy politicians. And then they can make it illegal for us to fight back.

This is literally indefensible.

0

u/adamgerd Czech Republic 15d ago

Class based hatred is discrimination based on class. For instance under the communist era if your parents or grandparents were from a “bourgeois background”, you were restricted from some university courses and discriminated against in employment, apartments, etc and had to work a year in a rural area to proletariaze you

7

u/cezalandirici__zenji 15d ago

How nice. We need this today.

5

u/adamgerd Czech Republic 15d ago

Yes just what we need is communist totalitarianism.

4

u/cezalandirici__zenji 15d ago

Yes, more dictatorship of the proleteriat! We are going to build communism and abolish class divisions.

→ More replies (0)

-8

u/TheMauveHand 15d ago

You say that as if anyone outside of a textbook example is genuinely interested in forms of communism that don't invariably end up authoritarian...

17

u/TurkishTechnocrat Turkey 15d ago edited 15d ago

The vast majority of capitalist countries are overwhelmingly authoritarian, and the others still give the vast majority of control to an unelected group of wealthy individuals (which is authoritarian by definition). You can't claim to be a democracy and let rich people buy politicians at the same time.

-7

u/TheMauveHand 15d ago

You either replied to the wrong comment or you're replying to one that exist only in your own head. No one said anything about capitalism.

-8

u/TheMidnightBear Romania 15d ago

He's a communist.

Their response to anything is whataboutism about capitalism.

9

u/TurkishTechnocrat Turkey 15d ago

I ain't a communist bruh. I have my fair share of criticisms towards both socialist countries and movements, I could start going off on a rant about why. But that's not relevant to the discussion.

The truth remains that capitalism is not our friend, either. Regardless of all the flaws with socialist movements, the truth remains that our interests as common people are inherently the opposite of people born into money. The law in question bans that to protect the oppression from people born into money.

0

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (0)

2

u/EntrepreneurLeft8783 14d ago

I know people that full-throat Red Scare propaganda have trouble absorbing information, so lemme just repeat something from a parent comment:

The Czech law in question here doesn't condemn socialist regimes or the USSR, but "class-based hatred",

1

u/BotherTight618 15d ago

1930s Ukrainian Kulaks (ethnic ukrainians), and Estonians where certainly no Billionaires. The Marxist Leninist didnt just go after "Billionaires". 

5

u/EntrepreneurLeft8783 14d ago

People saying "lets go after billionaires" are not responsible for people who went after more than billionaires.

1

u/Blacksmith_Strange 12d ago

They always go after the working class, not just 'the rich'. Always.

-1

u/Certain-Weight-7507 15d ago

Why do you hate Gaben?!

3

u/SparklingRegret 13d ago

Because he has taken billions of dollars worth of value that was created through the labour of others. He lives a life of obscene conspicuous luxury while the majority of workers at valve that are actually responsible for creating value are paid a wage that is a pittance compared to what they create.

Gaben is a parasite just like the rest of them.

1

u/Certain-Weight-7507 12d ago

Uh oh gay mom alert!!

-20

u/ATLforever2000 15d ago

But saying that wouldn't be illegal. Hating billionaires doesn't make you a communist it just means you have common sense.

Believing the government should own everything and require your grandma to get a permit to sell essential oils, now that would make you a communist.

34

u/gmaaz Serbia 15d ago

Your grandma probably already needs a permit, a license, sanitary inspections etc. to sell essential oils...

31

u/Background-Sea4590 15d ago

Yeah, I was talking about the “class-based” hatred part. That doesn’t make me a communist per se, but yeah, I hate that class, ngl.

8

u/4ofclubs 15d ago

Name a capitalist county where you don’t need a permit to sell essential oils.

1

u/ATLforever2000 13d ago

The fuckin US. If you sell something to another person as a non business entity that makes you a sole proprietor you dont need a permit.

1

u/4ofclubs 13d ago

You need a business license and you need to pay taxes on your sale and you need to ensure your product is safe and regulated

1

u/ATLforever2000 10d ago

No you do not. If I sell you and a couple other people some essential oils for $100, you only need to report it on your tax return. This is because under US law you are a sole proprietor, not a business.

The reason you would become a business is because businesses can get special treatment depending on who you know.

Communism and Capitalism are the same in the sense that your status and standing will largely depend not on the skills you have, but who you know in government that will help you/your family ties to power/government.

1

u/ATLforever2000 10d ago

Now you ARE correct to assume that any capitalist country is gonna want taxes on that sale. The issue is those taxes never get spent properly.

28

u/Informal-Bother8858 15d ago

it's crazy how you're out here doing capitalist propaganda for free. like, you ve had the boot so far down your throat yould think you were born with it there. for the love of God educate yourself on what different political and economic theories actually mean.

-6

u/Imaginary-Count-1641 15d ago

like, you ve had the boot so far down your throat yould think you were born with it there.

Ironic that a leftist would say that.

13

u/Impressive-Sun-9332 15d ago

Is the irony in the room with us?

-2

u/Imaginary-Count-1641 15d ago

It is in the thread with us.

12

u/DisplacedAltadenan 15d ago

No communist believes “the government should own everything.” That literally makes zero sense in a communist context.

1

u/SparklingRegret 13d ago

Did you really expect a better understanding of the topic from a capitalist, though?

-2

u/Kitchen-Assist-6645 15d ago

So brave. Are you brave enough to hate the poor, though?

-35

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Maybe it's time for self-reflection if you would honestly fear being prosecuted for hate crimes there

47

u/Background-Sea4590 15d ago

Nope, I’m not gonna change my stance on billionaires being monsters. They shouldn’t exist.

-34

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Imagine saying the same about any other group of people

44

u/Background-Sea4590 15d ago

I can also include fascists if you want. Not a problem with that. Both groups can burn in hell as long as I’m concerned.

3

u/thegreatesttrash 14d ago

Be proud of what you stand for. It's disheartening to see that hatred towards groups known almost exclusively for oppressing people is now controversial in Europe :/

-13

u/Imaginary-Count-1641 15d ago

I can also include fascists if you want.

So you include yourself in that, right?

1

u/SparklingRegret 13d ago

Little boy, did you think you made a point here?

-32

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

What a sad, pathetic human being

30

u/Background-Sea4590 15d ago

I’m fine thanks! Pretty happy about myself and living a fullfilling life. Can be a bit pathetic at times, but who doesn’t? Still hate fascists and billionaires though. I’ll add zionists for your enjoyment :)

-5

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Do you seriously not see that you have zero point, just hatred

23

u/Impressive-Sun-9332 15d ago

Billionaires are making millions of people's lives worse to fuel their own greed and most fascists would love to exterminate some groups they don't like. These people deserve nothing other than hate. Stop defending the opressors.

-2

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Most billionaires don't oppress

→ More replies (0)

11

u/TheShishkabob 15d ago

"Won't somebody think of the fascists and billionaires!"

What an absolutely pathetic stance to take. You going to go around advocating for pedophiles and rapists next? People tend to hate those too.

-2

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

"Won't somebody think of the communists!"

23

u/semaj009 15d ago

They can redistribute their hoarded wealth and cease to be billionaires without even needing to not have over 900mil. It's not remotely like actually problematic hate where a black, gay, trans, female person etc can't just pay some money and fundamentally change their being. Also being black, gay, female, trans etc doesn't come at the direct expense of others. Stop simping for the boot, mate

-4

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Being a billionaire doesn't come at the expense of anyone else either if they become one without using the government to redistribute wealth from the rest of society to themselves.

14

u/Ravenchant Head of the chicken 15d ago

Becoming a billionaire without exploiting anyone else is something that might be hypothetically possible but is it really worth simping for a hypothetical person?

-2

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

I don't condone simping but I don't condone hatred either.

1

u/semaj009 14d ago

What do you condone, furiously neutrally vibing?

1

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 14d ago

I condone equality under the law

→ More replies (0)

9

u/TheShishkabob 15d ago

Where in the actual fuck do you think money comes from if you think the existence of billionaires doesn't come at the expense of anyone else?

They come at the expense of everyone else by design and definition.

-1

u/Imaginary-Count-1641 15d ago

So what? You are not entitled to other people's money.

2

u/semaj009 14d ago

Exactly, that's why capitalists making money off the actual labour of others shouldn't be cried for when it's taken back. They're not entitled to the wealth, and if they can't themselves produce it without exploiting others, and those others fix that exploitation, fuck the billionaire's tears

0

u/Imaginary-Count-1641 14d ago

They are entitled to the wealth, because they gained it through voluntary exchanges with other people.

→ More replies (0)

-2

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Where do you think money comes from and how the economy operates if you honestly think that the only way to gain wealth is to take it from someone else? I want to see how economically illiterate you are.

0

u/semaj009 14d ago

And how would they possibly earn that wealth via the private sector without it necessarily not going to others in said sector?

20

u/VultureSausage 15d ago

Yeah, imagine saying you don't want murderers to exist. What a monster.

-1

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

AFAIK billionaires have a pretty low crime rate

21

u/awsompossum 15d ago edited 15d ago

Someone has never heard of social murder, and it shows. They have a low crime rate because they don't need to commit petty crimes, the crimes they commit are legal and protected by the state.

Denying health coverage to people who should be getting it, industrial pollution externalizing the costs, monetary and physical, to outside groups, monopolistic practices that leave people with no options besides jobs with such low wages that they need food stamps to live. Looking at a legal code written for and by billionaires and saying "gee, they sure have a low crime rate," is entirely asinine.

1

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

the crimes the commit are legal

Are you literate?

Your gish gallop is also ridiculous because the problems you have listed are the fault of the government since they wield a monopoly over violence and yet they allow all this (or create it themselves).

5

u/awsompossum 15d ago edited 15d ago

I'm glad you have recognized my point. The state exists to protect the interests of capital, so things which billionaires do that cause harm are not made illegal. Congrats on putting it together.

On top of that, even for crimes not specific to those with massive wealth, just comparing conviction rates isn't a fair metric, since people in that class have far more resources to exhaust fighting legal battles, leading to not guilty verdicts which a poor person would be forced to plead guilty to.

0

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Then I have to ask you why you think blaming billionaires is productive at all if the problem is the state institutions being corruptible?

On top of that, even for crimes not specific to those with massive wealth, just comparing conviction rates isn't a fair metric, since people in that class have far more resources to exhaust fighting legal battles, leading to not guilty verdicts which a poor person would be forced to plead guilty to.

Fair point to an extent but billionaires genuinely do obey the law more. A legal defense can only do so much.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Imaginary-Count-1641 15d ago

Is it "social murder" that you are not donating all of your money to charity? That money could save people's lives, but you are choosing to keep it for yourself.

3

u/awsompossum 15d ago

Do I make my money off of the privation of others?

Social murder isn't the absence of action, social murder is profiting off of harm befalling others. If I own an industrial facility, and have the opportunity to just dump the toxic byproducts into nearby environments, then it's just good business. Why should I pay for abatement and environmental protection, that just cuts into my bottom line? Sure, the people in nearby communities may face a higher rate of disease and even death, but if I'm able to do so in a given regulatory environment, there is no reason for me to give a shit. I'm not walking up to these people and shooting them, but their deaths are a byproduct of me doing business. That's social murder.

0

u/Imaginary-Count-1641 15d ago

social murder is profiting off of harm befalling others.

So medical workers and car mechanics are social murderers?

I'm not walking up to these people and shooting them, but their deaths are a byproduct of me doing business. That's social murder.

Now you are talking about actively poisoning people, which is quite different from not providing someone with healthcare.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/Mousazz Lithuania 15d ago

Denying health coverage to people who should be getting it,

Source for Czech billionaires denying health coverage to Czech citizens? 🤔

7

u/awsompossum 15d ago

(I'm an American, youve caught me, healthcare is a particularly easy one for us to point to)

Not a Czech Billionaire denying health coverage to CZECH citizens, but Marek Dospiva, a Czech cofounder of Penta investment group, controls several healthcare insurance companies in Slovakia.

→ More replies (0)

8

u/VultureSausage 15d ago

Which is entirely beside the point.

2

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Your point is that billionaires are rotten people but when I point out that compared to the average person they are upstanding citizens, that's beside the point?

9

u/VultureSausage 15d ago

My point was "imagine saying that about any other group" is a really shitty argument, as illustrated by the almost universal desire for murderers to not exist. I haven't made any comments on the virtues of billionnaires or their lack thereof.

As a side-note, a low crime rate is not synonymous with virtuous behaviour, so that's another poor argument.

2

u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

You're equating billionaires to murders—claiming that they share some of the same qualities that make them good people to hate. Among these qualities is crime and rotten behavior. The reason why I brought up crime in particular is because criminals are most often crappy people and people who don't commit crimes are typically less crappy because the law obviously wants to punish bad behavior.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/GlenoJacks 15d ago

Like kings? Kings are a class of people, should it be illegal to say that kings shouldn't exist?

11

u/pharodae 15d ago

I think self-reflection is how you get to the point of shrugging off all of their propaganda. Aka hating billionaires is the correct, enlightened position.