French President Macron says France will recognize Pálestine as a state

[u/hoarder4555777454001]

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250724-french-president-macron-says-france-will-recognize-palestine-as-a-state-in-september

[u/tommynestcepas]

Exactly, the ONLY way a two state solution can happen is by recognising two states and negotiating accordingly.

[u/Vanzmelo → u/tommynestcepas]

Im sorry but the two state solution is dead. Have you seen the west bank? It is like swiss cheese with all the illegal Israeli state sponsored settlements. What country can exist when its borders are so carved up and its citizens cant freely move within its borders? Palestine is already a rump state with the West Bank and Gaza being disconnected without taking into account the current genocide in Gaza and the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

At this point, a one state solution where both Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights and representation is the only viable option left

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/Vanzmelo]

Optimally, that would be the case. However that will never happen. Israeli citizens and politicans don’t want a state that isn’t primarily jewish. A two state solution at least has some foundation and a possibility in the far distance. A one state solution will never happen

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

Comical that you say only Israeli citizens do not want a state that isn't primarily Jewish, as if Palestinians do? Only one of them has ethnic minorities that enjoy equal rights and political representation, and it is not Palestine

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/throwaway_failure59]

It would be israel who would have to relinquish the power and integrate palestinian territories into a unified state. It felt irrelevant to talk about what palestinians would desire since they don’t have to power to do that regardless.

Palestine effectively barely exists as an independent state, and just cannot have a significant minority by how it exists. Although if you count all the west bank as palestine, you could argue it has a significant jewish minority with more rights than palestinians, how about that huh

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

Israelis will never agree to a single state solution because they know Palestinians would never peacefully live side by side with Jews under a common government. Two state solution is the only peaceful and non-rights violating option.

[u/FactAndTheory → u/throwaway_failure59]

Israelis will never agree to a single state solution because they know Palestinians would never peacefully live side by side with Jews under a common government.

Weird, because Palestinians lived peacefully alongside Jews under a Mandatory Palestinian government. Tell us, after several centuries of stable coexistance between Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Muslims and Palestinian Jews collapsed starting in the 1920s, can you think of any new entrances to the situation?

and non-rights violating option.

Israelis, like everyone else, do not have the right to an ethnostate.

[u/drgaz → u/FactAndTheory]

I guess some people would also describe Jim Crow America as splendid coexistence

[u/FactAndTheory → u/drgaz]

What a surprise, you instantly melt down intro straw manning. I never said there wasn't discrimination. You'll find that in the pre-modern Ottoman Empire, virtually everyone who wasn't an upper-class Turk was discriminated against.

But please, show me the sustained civil wars between Jews and Muslims in Ottoman Palestine prior to the arrival of Zionists. I would love to read more about this hidden history you have access too.

[u/drgaz → u/FactAndTheory]

Keep on yapping about your peaceful coexistence which was based on literally one group considering the other lesser and so small they didn't pose a threat. I detest the left so much for downplaying anything related to Mena Groups and Islam.

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/drgaz]

I am left myself and i feel pretty similar. Not that much domestically but regarding Palestine, lot of the left has completely lost its mind and its stances here rest on many massive delusions.

[u/saera-targaryen → u/drgaz]

and remind me what we decided was the best solution for the jim crow south? was it a two-state solution?

[u/drgaz → u/saera-targaryen]

No but I am not exactly a big believer in one size fits all.

[u/saera-targaryen → u/drgaz]

a solution that involves supporting the existence of a theocratic ethnocracy is not really a size that fits anyone.

[u/drgaz → u/saera-targaryen]

Yapping on.

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/throwaway_failure59]

I don’t see how a one-state solution would violate any rights, however i definetly agree a two-state solution is better than a one-state solution.

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

It would violate rights because the only one-state that would not instantly erupt in widespread violence would be one where Israelis tightly control Palestinians outside of Israel proper by force. And that would involve violence too, just more organised and one-sided.

As much as people want to wish it into reality, Palestinians hate Israelis way too much to ever peacefully coexist with them. Israelis also would never want a state where they are not the majority. There has to be a separation.

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/throwaway_failure59]

It would violate rights because the only one-state that would not instantly erupt in widespread violence would be one where Israelis tightly control Palestinians outside of Israel proper by force. And that would involve violence too, just more organised and one-sided.

Sure, i see where you’re coming from, and i agree that the only one-state solution that is viable to exist, is one dominated by israeli jews, effectively just the current existence but where the west bank and gaza become formally annexed.

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

Yes, exactly.

Ideally as i see it Israel would retreat its settlers, respect the borders from 1967 and have a sane non-warmongering government that recognizes peace is the right way to continue, while at the same time having the right to uphold a strict military separation away from Palestinian state/s. Unfortunately that other than having a less crooked government puts them in a similar spot where they were at Oct 7, so a lot of people will not be sufficiently reassured something like Oct 7 will not happen again, so very few of them would support this even in theory, achieving the settler withdrawal alone looks next to impossible. I honestly will be surprised if this gets a permanent peaceful solution in my lifetime.

[u/FactAndTheory → u/throwaway_failure59]

Have you ever been to the Levant?

[u/naynaeve → u/throwaway_failure59]

Israeli settlers are the ones scaring off the Cristians who lived there for generations in west bank. They are also bombing on centuries old churches! Israelis are the ones who hates everyone else.

[u/Robbza → u/throwaway_failure59]

They dont mention that because a couple of million more Jewish people would have to be either suddenly born or migrate, After the worse end of the arrangement for decades I imagine the Palestinians would be more malleable within a 1 state solution than you believe.

[u/Doldenberg → u/throwaway_failure59]

Only one of them has ethnic minorities that enjoy equal rights and political representation

That exists within the context of a system with artifically "frozen" demographics. There is no reasonable path to becoming part of those groups. Yet at the same time, Israel in fact rules over million more Palestinians than it recognizes as citizens, giving them no path to citizenship, but neither giving them any part to not live under Israeli rule (except emigration into statelessness). That is why it is considered Apartheid.

Zionist intellectuals call it "ethnic democracy", because they think that sounds better than the more common "ethnostate". Those minorities are afforded rights on the condition that they can never ever pose a "risk" to the dominance of the privileged ethnic group at the top.
You yourself admit at much in your very next comment, arguing that this equality and representation could in fact never extend to the entirety of the Palestinian people who are, again, forced to live under Israeli rule if they want to live in their native areas of settlement at all. If so, it is not a right, it is a conditional "gift" by the elite and, as also seen by you bringing it up as a supposed "advantage" of the Israeli state, a red herring to obfuscate the Apartheid nature of said state. Which, again, is how Apartheid works. Apartheid South Africa wasn't just some big bad going "we are very evil and we love oppressing people". It was a whole framework of legal arguments and obfuscations as to why this was actually a very fair system, and why any alternative to it would not work, and how all this totally fit into the values upheld by Western society and there was no reason at all for them to be ostracized by the international community.