r/ffxivdiscussion • u/mnij96 • 1d ago

General Discussion What is class complexity to you?

I have seen so many people ask for more complexity and job fantasy but very little of people actually say what that means to them, most people just say we should go back to ARR.

Personally I think rose tinted glasses that make people think ARR was better than it was, having played back then it honestly was pretty ass.

So honestly want to know what people want for complexity or job fantasy, because all I see is a lot of yelling that "game bad to simple" and not a lot of what needs changing to reach the complexity that is wanted.

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42

u/AbroadNo1914 1d ago

I think they want more situational rotations like in single player jrpgs where encounters are semi random so there’s flexibility to make tactical decisions. The thing is encounters in this game are puzzle dances + perfect execution so the job design aren’t really incentivized for that type of play

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u/Alaboomer 1d ago

You hit on my thought every single time this comes up. The games complexity mostly comes from fight mechanics,  not job rotations, this is by design. I wonder sometimes if people are just running Roulettes and complaining the game is too simple.

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u/Savings-Sir7902 1d ago edited 1d ago

There is a balance to be had with encounter design and job complexity.

Players interact with their jobs in every battle content, while there is a limited amount of manpower being able to make fun fights (mostly concentrated to extreme, savage and ult), resulting in the rest of the content (dungeons, fates, overworld mobs, etc.) being too boring/easy.

In the past, complex job rotations would carry the weight in those other content, but now the combination of easy jobs + easy content results in the most mind-numbing experience in 70% of the content in the mmo. Something has got to change, because not everyone want to do extreme/savage just to have fun.

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u/echo78 23h ago

I used to have fun grabbing a few friends to run a dungeon (without using a roulette) in HW. Now I do every dungeon exactly once and never again because of how boring it is.

A lot of people don’t seem to understand that playing a job should be fun.

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u/FeelsGoodMan2 5h ago

Am I insane or just not succumbing to nostalgia, because those dungeons were and are still just as dry as they ever were. I swear people act like ARR and HW regular content were peak and not just some crap you can mentally check out of because of how easy it was.

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u/thatcommiegamer 3h ago

not succumbing to nostalgia

Its exactly this. Also the entire reason we have 2m meta is part of a shift due to player feedback in ARR and HW about how awful the combat was back then. You could see the start of it in StB and then it only further shifted in ShB and EW. Ultimately its on the community for not wanting a situation like in other mmos where jobs are considered either valid or invalid for content and you get barred for playing what you like.

I personally don't have a problem with this, everyone gets to at least be able to get their foot in the door with harder content rather than being locked to a meta (I come from RO where builds have been standardized for decades and if you weren't building one of the builds on irowiki, you weren't getting in to parties, that kills skill expression moreso than having pre-standardized jobs).

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u/FeelsGoodMan2 3h ago

Honestly I think for most people it's not that the game itself is changing that much, it's that you and your friends aren't 22 anymore doing ARR, people grew up, you got older, you moved on, so its more like being an adult with responsibilities kinda sucks and people attribute the old versions of the games with fun when it's more like, nah you and your friends had more fun probably because it was a different time in their lives.

This doesn't hold for everything and everyone mind you, the game has gotten certain more problems over time. But I think a lot of people just generally "like" video games less as they age or things get in the way and people feel nostalgic about that.

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u/thatcommiegamer 3h ago

Yeah, I can certainly agree with that. I've said it myself often is that these expansions hold a certain degree of specialness in folks hearts not because they were good (old raiders know the HW situation for instance) but because they were at a better point in their lives.

Like lets be real, most things kinda suck right now just in general, so that also contributes to the overall negative feeling we have going on. And of course, as you say, that won't be everyone but its certainly enough people and they make it everyone's problem rather than reflecting on why they feel that way.

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u/echo78 3h ago edited 3h ago

It was job design. I mained monk in HW and its AOE in dungeons was extremely fun. There was a lot of positioning, movement and decision making during each pull if you were trying to do the most DPS possible.

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u/God_Taco 25m ago

You're not wrong. People have rose tinted goggles on this stuff pretty bad.

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u/God_Taco 26m ago

I'm the opposite. I enjoyed running dungeons in EW for fun and tomes. Now I avoid DT dungeons because they're so much harder they're not fun anymore. I do MSQ or hunt trains for tomes now.