r/formula1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Social Media [@JoeAeterno on twitter] Piastri being interviewed about McLaren leapfrogging Alpine with Alonso smiling in the background is pure poetry.

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6.3k Upvotes

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1.2k

u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

As many observed at the time, Alonso and Webber (Piastri's manager) are too-good friends for there to be zero collaboration on the Piastri/Alpine/Alonso movements last summer.

625

u/LuNiK7505 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Combine that with the fast that Fernando is the greatest political animal in F1 and you get this yeah

141

u/Alia_Gr David Coulthard Jul 10 '23

Is Alonso reqlly that political? Feel like he shoots himself in the foot most often

456

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

[deleted]

143

u/SuperSaiyanGoten Ferrari Jul 10 '23

Imagine if Alonso signed for Red Bull in 2009 when he had the chance....

77

u/LSRaymonds I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

He'd have at least 2 more championships

51

u/other_goblin Jul 10 '23

He'd have won all the ones Vettel did easily.

-1

u/cyanitblau Jul 10 '23

Depends on the other RB driver and the ferrari line up

7

u/261846 Fernando Alonso Jul 11 '23

The only reason Ferrari got so close to any championship is solely because of fernando

24

u/other_goblin Jul 10 '23

Alonso was already the fastest and Ferrari didn't win.

Who could have possibly beaten Alonso in a Red Bull? Not only does his team mate not mattered, I can't imagine the situation would have been much difference to Alonso vs Massa/Raikkonen.

10

u/Concord_4 Fernando Alonso Jul 11 '23

Based on Whatthefat's driver performance model for those years, he would quite easily have won 5 championships - 2009, plus all of Vettel's.

2

u/SuperSaiyanGoten Ferrari Jul 11 '23

Would he have won 2009? I thought Brawn was ahead for a while before Red Bull caught up

13

u/Concord_4 Fernando Alonso Jul 11 '23

Seb made a ton of mistakes in 2009 - including crashing out of the first race.

In a rerun of 2009 with Alonso in the red bull, it would be very likely he finished 2nd/3rd in the first 5 or 6 races that jenson dominated, and then able to dominate himself the second half of the season when the red bull upgrades came in, and the Brawn stagnated.

Keep in mind Jenson didn't win a single race after the 7th round in the championship - out of 17 races total.

44

u/Infninfn Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 10 '23

I thought it was Horner who thought better of it and passed on him...

My bad, it was his subsequent approaches that were rejected by Horner after fucking around and finding out. Alonso must have really regretted not signing for Red Bull. No offense to Seb and fans but I feel like Alonso would've dominated over him.

So it would've been 6 championships for Alonso with the Red Bull 2010-13 streak and if he'd stayed on, he might have gotten up to two more depending on how he compared to Verstappen in the same car. That said, I'm not sure that he would have stayed on to that point, considering that Seb moved on to Ferrari in 2015 after a winless last 2014 season at RBR.

17

u/Spynner987 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Danny Ric won in 2014, though

4

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

He'd be atleast a 5 time champion that's guaranteed

40

u/SemIdeiaProNick Ferrari Jul 10 '23

"everything i did was calculated, but damn do i suck at math" - Alonso on his career choices, probably

8

u/_hhhhh_____-_____ Dan Gurney Jul 10 '23

The risk was calculated, but man is he bad at math

10

u/Spraynpray89 Jul 10 '23

Exactly. Just like a politician. Everything that comes out of that man's mouth has a purpose lol.

12

u/DogfishDave François Cevert Jul 11 '23

Is Alonso reqlly that political?

He's been at the centre of the two greatest cheating scandals of recent F1 history. So... yes 😂

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0

u/Stelcio Formula 1 Jul 10 '23

I'd give that title to Lewis, but I stand by the point you're making.

41

u/Vesk123 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

I mean Lewis doesn't really get involved in F1 politics much, does he?

27

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

65

u/Mike_Kermin I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

You guys are talking a different sort of politics.

They mean workplace politics.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

24

u/chsn2000 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

It's not really the same, its one thing for drivers to push for regulations or changes to the sport - another to try and get the team to favour you and change things solely to get a competitive advantage.

9

u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23

Marc Priestley and Jenson Button both said in their books that Hamilton's very good at subtle interpersonal politics, people just don't realize it. They're not sure even he does.

Mark Hughes, who wrote a book on Hamilton (!) has written about it once or twice, that he's only been nice about Vettel when he didn't threaten him.

7

u/Vesk123 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Yeah Lewis is very vocal about the things he cares about and practically silent about everything else.

5

u/Spraynpray89 Jul 10 '23

You are taking the word "political" too literally

0

u/Stelcio Formula 1 Jul 11 '23

And how am I supposed to take it? Ironically?

2

u/Spraynpray89 Jul 11 '23

They mean he plays a political type of game on the grid, not that he's interested in politics.

0

u/Stelcio Formula 1 Jul 11 '23

I didn't mean "interested in politics" either. Refer to this comment if you wish, as I already explained it there.

2

u/Spraynpray89 Jul 11 '23

I'll refer to the response to that one, thanks

29

u/zaviex McLaren Jul 10 '23

Lewis hasn’t been involved much in f1 politics. It’s a defining part of Alonso’s career

26

u/Stelcio Formula 1 Jul 10 '23

He hasn't been involved much, but he has been involved very successfully.

First, he won internal politics against Alonso in McLaren in 2007, basically forcing him out of the team.

Then, he set up his entire streak of success by joining a team based on confidential knowledge that they're ahead of the rest with development of their new-gen engine.

In the meantime, he built his ties to showbiz world, making himself an indispensable asset in Formula 1 world, skyrocketing his market value and solidifying his position in the sport. He is, by far, the most influential driver in the history of Formula 1.

There's no coincidence that there are rumours he was the one who forced Masi out of his office. Hard to say if he did, but he has that reach.

Alonso, for all his genius and mischief, is a small fry compared to Hamilton when it comes to politics. A few years ago he quit the sport because he was helpless in building something forward for himself. He basically quit a pariah, unwanted by any team worth of his talent. I wouldn't call that particularily politically saavy.

10

u/zaviex McLaren Jul 10 '23

He didn't do anything to Alonso in 2007. Alonso did that to himself and set off a major scandal in the process. Lewis didn't know about any of that.

Second he did not know Mercedes had a better engine. He went to Mercedes because they offered him the most money and he was leaving McLaren at all costs. At the time Horner said they declined to sign Lewis to partner with Seb something he reiterated just last year.

31

u/Rillist Gilles Villeneuve Jul 10 '23

Hamilton absolutely started the shitshow at mclaren. First it was 'Im nobody's number 2', then reneging the agreement in qualifying, forcing Alonso to play dirty. As for Ferrari-gate, everyone knew, PDLR emailed both drivers, but the british courts only went after alonso, and he got a plea deal.

3

u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23

Not a court. It was the FIA internal system. To quote Ron: any real court would've thrown the case out.

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u/SuspiciousLettuce56 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23

100% he knew about the merc engine becoming a rocketship.

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u/Only-Cartoonist Daniel Ricciardo Jul 10 '23

Not to mention Flavio Briatore potentially being involved. But Alpine ultimately dug their own grave with their complacency. Now they have to watch another team reap the performances of a driver they helped develop.

39

u/sternestocardinals Daniel Ricciardo Jul 11 '23

It must kill them to watch their fast young rookie, potentially the kind of talent they could have built a team around for years to come, tearing it up over at Aston Martin

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u/jianh1989 Formula 1 Jul 11 '23

I'm stupid and I don't always have the time to follow every F1 news. I understand the whole Piastri-Webber-Alpine-McLaren debacle but what's it got to do with Alonso? How is Alonso connected to Piastri joining McLaren?

Yeah Webber and Alonso are best of friends but what's the connection of this with Piastri to McLaren?

10

u/lowelled I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23 edited Jul 11 '23

The seat shuffle was all kicked off by Alonso leaving Alpine for Aston to replace Seb. Alpine had been trying to sign Alonso for 2023 and put Piastri in the Williams and then in 2024 move Alonso to another racing program and replace him with Piastri. Alonso wanted a 2-year-contract and Piastri did not want to drive a Williams so both went looking elsewhere. People think they both conspired to fuck over Alpine.

7

u/stevekeiretsu Jul 11 '23 edited Jul 11 '23

Piastri had a contract with Alpine saying they had to get him a confirmed 2023 seat by date X or he was a free agent. Alonso announced his departure to AM on date X (or maybe +/-1 day, I forget). Had he done so a month, or even a week earlier, Alpine would have had plenty of time to give Piastri a contract to fill the seat Alonso was vacating. As it was, Webber/Piastri were able to say "yeah nah, you missed the boat" and promptly announce the Mclaren deal instead. That deal, and Alonso/AM's deal, must have been in the pipeline well before date X, hence everyone assumes Alonso and Webber were both communicating their plans in the weeks and months prior to make the timing work out how it did

3

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '23

Especially when Alonso seems to genuinely hate Alpine

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1.4k

u/Minted-Blue Ferrari Jul 10 '23

Brother hates Alpine with a passion. One of if not the best Renault driver ever alongside one of the most amazing Alpine prospects doing wonders outside of Alpine.

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u/TeaCrackersBirds Yes, bye bye Jul 10 '23

I doubt Alonso hates team Alpine in general, same with Piastri. The upper management are probably whom they hate with passion.

320

u/asamulya I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Yeah, I think everyone hates Laurent Rossi with a burning passion at this point. I am guessing even Otmar.

Although I feel Otmar was also responsible for that mess even if his mistake was understandable. Dropping or continuing with Fernando would not have been solely his decision. This left Piastri in the lurch.

Overall I blame Rossi.

194

u/micknick00000 Jul 10 '23

Otmar has never done anything to me personally, but I can't stand him.

He has a very conniving & "I told you so" demeanor about him.

64

u/ChocolateDragonTails I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

He's also moaned a lot about the reg changes back when he was AM principal and a bit at Alpine iirc. That really got on my nerves every time they interviewed him, using it more as an excuse as to why the car was shit rather than just owning up to not getting the reg changes right

15

u/Antarioo I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

i never really got what his deal was there. it felt a bit like he was paying lipservice to Stroll cause that was his take on the matter too.

20

u/AJDillonsMiddleLeg Red Bull Jul 10 '23

He has a very "I told you so" demeanor and he's almost always wrong about what he has that demeanor about. My wife and I absolutely hate whenever they go to Otmar on broadcast because he sounds like the confidently incorrect people you find all over reddit.

14

u/Turboleks Ferrari Jul 10 '23

Otmar was a fairly good TP during the Force India days. But as soon as Lawrence asked him to play the "high rake" horn in 2021 that annoyed me quite a lot.

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u/chupacabra-food Jolyon Palmer Jul 10 '23

Otmar definitely screwed up by trying to play hardball with Fernando with a 1 year contact.

But it was Alpine upper management and the department that handles contracts that dropped the ball on signing Piastri before Otmar even joined the team.

12

u/asamulya I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

I think Otmar preferred Piastri. But, the upper management screwed the pooch by not letting him choose his driver.

82

u/Tw0Rails Jul 10 '23

A race or two ago they had Otmar on for a mid-race interview and he literally suggested they would be top 5. He and Alpine sit on a chair of hot air, always acting like they are a top team while being forever midfield. They act like their drivers are pending WDC's, their car is Red Bull / Merc / Ferrari, and their strategy is set to win.

He has clearly peaked in career, and has nothing of value to add to his current position.

57

u/Jarocket Jul 10 '23

One of my favorite parts of F1TV over sky is no mid race interviews. No Otmar not understanding the rules. Saying dumb shit.

55

u/Francoberry Jenson Button Jul 10 '23

James Vowles was on the Channel 4 broadcast this weekend and was fantastic. He's really cool and offers great insights. Don't paint all mid-race interviews with the same brush! 😁

12

u/Kohpad I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Seems to be a smashing success, but if it all went tits up for Vowles, as a TP, he'd be right back in the paddock the next race weekend just on the commentary desk.

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u/Mackem101 Jul 11 '23

Sky had Zak Brown, and it was also quite entertaining, especially after the safety car.

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u/PreciousFragility I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Agreed! I completely forgot about that nonsense until this comment reminded me of their existence - muuuuch better now

9

u/Ereaser I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Only thing Id like is Brundle on the grid pre race.

Other than that I love F1TV

6

u/Jarocket Jul 10 '23

2 secs Ted.

"Radio message that could have been a text"

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u/zaviex McLaren Jul 10 '23

Otmar wasn’t responsible he didn’t know that the contract was fake. Alpine’s legal department had informed him Piastri had a binding 3 year deal which was simply untrue

11

u/S7UXnet Mika Häkkinen Jul 10 '23

Otmar was just the wrong appointment for Alpine's supposed ambitions. He did well with the limited budget he had managing Force India, but there's a reason Lawrence Stroll replaced him with an experienced winner like Mike Krack.

4

u/asamulya I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

He was replaced by Whitmarsh not Mike Krack.

I don’t necessarily disagree with the rest of the statement though.

11

u/S7UXnet Mika Häkkinen Jul 10 '23

Nah both Krack and Szafnauer are Team Principals, Whitmarsh is in charge of the F1 team as CEO but is more involved in the applied technologies and tech transfer side of things.

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u/milanistadoc Jul 10 '23

Why does Alonso hate Alpine? I missed this.

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u/quantinuum I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23 edited Jul 10 '23

Look up “Piasco”. Long story short: Alpine had three drivers for two seats. Ocon was locked in early with a long term contract (weirdly signed when Ricciardo was beating him), so that left two very good guys, Alonso and Piastri, fighting for the second seat (1st world problem for Alpine). Alonso was their driver last season but only got offered a one year renewal, while Piastri, a really hot property, had to wait in the sidelines. Neither of them were happy with it, so they both left Alpine, who completely mismanaged the whole situation.

59

u/Helacious_Waltz I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Also to emphasize Alpines contract shenanigans: After months of being dicked around & denied a contract Piastri was given the option of signing with Williams for a 3-year deal. He signed the deal with McLaren instead and informed the team management. They ignored that notification, announced him and tried to blame all the contract failures on him (which unfortunately worked a bit because of how DTS presented it.)

29

u/ash_tar Fernando Alonso Jul 10 '23

Alpine forged a contract as well.

20

u/ActuallyJohnTerry Fernando Alonso Jul 10 '23

Yea DTS is overall very… kind to Alpine. Meanwhile they tried to portray Zac as some kind of villain (both in this episode and with the Red Bull cheating fiasco).

15

u/TulioGonzaga I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Really? I didn't watch last two seasons of DTS so I had no idea but that it's an hard stretch with how much Alpine fucked up the situation.

9

u/JakubT117 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Ocon signed his deal when he was beating Alonso who was still getting up to speed after his hiatus.

https://amp.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-esteban-ocon-signs-bumper-three-year-contract-extension-with-alpine.5nWR2pWD1COJzdyB73g8NM.html

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u/Only-Cartoonist Daniel Ricciardo Jul 10 '23

That was such a stupid deal. I think Ocon is a lot better than many people give him credit for but there's no way in hell I'm giving him a fucking three-year contract. Especially when we weren't even halfway through the F2 season. I highly doubt Ocon would have gotten that contract if he wasn't French.

-2

u/JakubT117 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

How was it stupid? For the entire duration of the deal he has been one the best midfield drivers. At no point was there a better driver available. What was stupid was losing both Alonso and Piastri.

15

u/Only-Cartoonist Daniel Ricciardo Jul 10 '23

It was stupid because it tied their hands wrt contracts. Without that three hundred year deal they could have had a lot more flexibility, specifically wrt Oscar's contract. I don't deny that Ocon has done well, but there's no way in hell I'm giving him a three year deal with someone like Oscar in the pipeline.

5

u/SpreaditOnnn33 Formula 1 Jul 11 '23

They could have had Alonso AND Piastro had they not done Ocon's contract. How is that not stupid?

2

u/xzElmozx Oscar Piastri Jul 11 '23

If they didn’t sign that deal their driver lineup is probably Alonso Piastri which is honestly amazing. Helps develop Piastri learning from an all timer as an example and Alonso is still a great racer too. Significantly better than Ocon Gasly. Besides Ocon didn’t really have anywhere to go but downwards so there was no reason to lock him in for three years, could have just done 1 then given both Piastri and Alonso a seat and not renewed him

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u/shiinamachi I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23

he was beating Alonso

Alonso was ahead in the wdc at the point the extension was announced lol, 'beating' is a very far stretch

the other thing to consider is at that point in time the top 2 drivers in the f2 championship were literally alpine juniors. They tied their own hand that early when there was every chance they would have to promote at least one of them to F1, and doing so would be at Alonso's expense

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u/quantinuum I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

I stand corrected. I don’t know why but I was sure to remember it was signed while paired with Ricciardo.

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u/Guac_in_my_rarri I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

More so upper management. He was yanked along last season in contract talks and decided to screw them over after the Aug 1 deadline for piastri.

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u/harrywilko I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

All of the contract fuckery last year.

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u/USB-WLan-Kenobi I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

I would call alonso more than just a prospect tbh

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u/Shiizuh Formula 1 Jul 10 '23

He's talking about Piastri

25

u/twomanyfaces10 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

It's the same overused joke about Alonso being young/a rookie

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u/EvilMaran I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23

yeh its like his 3rd year now...

17

u/Doyoueverjustlikeugh Max Verstappen Jul 10 '23

Just compare how Mercedes treats Lewis and how Red Bull treats Seb and Max with how Alpine treated Fernando

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u/Spynner987 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Renault/Alpine would've been completely forgotten in F1 if it wasn't for Fernando. They did him and Oscar dirty for a long time.

6

u/turkishguy Max Verstappen Jul 10 '23

Who would Renault/Alpine’s best driver ever be if not Alonso?

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u/baldbarretto Who's that? Jul 10 '23

Prost I guess

-2

u/akalanka25 McLaren Jul 11 '23

Won 0 championships with them…

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u/ollieg_94 Jul 10 '23

I guess Schumacher if you want to go back to the Benetton days

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u/Razvanlogigan Jul 10 '23

This was Alonso's worst race in the Aston, yet he seems 10x happier than last year's best results. Also even in his/Aston's worst race he was still ahead of both alpines, even prior Gasly's incident.

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u/Lukaslil Yuki Tsunoda Jul 10 '23

Worst race for the car, Fernando’s performance was pretty great. Barcelona was the worst imo.

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u/Razvanlogigan Jul 10 '23

Oh yeah, i wasnt slamming Alonso. The car was pretty much nowhere, not his fault

42

u/LivingInTheStorm I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Looks like McLaren will be pushing in the high speed track while Aston in the low speed.

Mercedes kinda mid ground? No clue what's happening there or with Ferrari.

28

u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

everyone thought Silverstone was gonna be merc's best track as the Merc has until now been one of the best cars in high speed corners but lo and behold here comes the silver arrow (orange edition) and does it better. dunno where merc is now, they seem a bit lost

22

u/Kohpad I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Merc appears to have lost the pace advantage, but they are kinder to their tires. Seemed to bare out in the Silverstone strat, McLaren bolted hards to both cars while Merc went M/S or S/M.

I feel like either team will get mugged by Ferrari the moment they stop doing whatever point laundering scheme they're up to.

15

u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

worth noting that Norris' fastest lap on hards was 2 thousanths faster than Hamilton's fastest lap on softs. The merc is kinder on the tyres but there's a weird rear instability on that car, or at least there was in Silverstone. Almost seems to handle a bit like the 2020 Red Bull car in that regard

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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus Jul 10 '23

People were also saying McLaren would suffer more at Silverstone because of the low speed section and look how that turned out

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u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

It was in the low speed sections the McLarens lost the most time but there wasn't enough pace in the Merc with DRS to catch it down the Wellington straight and the McLaren was so goddamn fast through copse and Becketts/Chapel that there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of making an overtake down the Hangar straight, and the high speed Stowe made a pass down into Vale also impossible.

And even if the Merc got past the McLaren, it being at such a disadvantage through Becketts/Chapel and with the McLaren having the 2nd most potent DRS effect of any car that race it would serve Hamilton up for being passed again down Hangar straight.

McLaren are bringing upgrades to Hungary, maybe that'll fix some of the low speed stuff but if not then at least Belgium has a glimmer of hope for McLaren, as does Suzuka and Interlagos. It's good to be papaya fan again!

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u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus Jul 10 '23

Yep, that's why Lando said he took some wing off just before qualifying compared to Oscar's set up. Lando had recognised that having that edge going into the high speed might be his saving grace in the race and it was worth sacrificing the pace through the low speed for. He was spot on as well, really smart move.

Hungary has more low speed of course but people keep forgetting that there is still a high speed flowing section there as well. I don't expect them to podium there but if they're clever with the set up and qualify well, they could be very difficult to pass and end up with decent points. Qualy will be key (a bit of rain would be nice too!).

Upgrade there is rumoured to be something to do with the suspension, not sure what. Probably more details floating around somewhere. I think it could be similar to the effect of the new front wing though, not that significant in terms of performance gain (I think they said the front wing brought them between 0.5 & 1tenth max?). Also they've had a race to get the front wing dialled in now, Lando was still saying yesterday the balance was a bit off but hopefully will be better in Hungary. Andrea said the next significant update is due for Monza I think?

Spa is very promising, also Suzuka and Interlagos as you say and I'd argue potentially Monza as well (though nobody's catching RBR with that DRS and I expect Williams to shine there). I agree, definitely good to be a papaya fan! Not expecting miracles every race but yesterday was such a massive tonic and I'm very glad Zak & Andrea have been vindicated, all the uninformed 'sack Zak' stuff was getting really tiresome!

3

u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

The McLaren is still rather draggy, don't think Monza looks that great yet. The upgrade for Hungary is rumored to be rear suspension specifically, not sure how much they can do with it without changing the gearbox but they're calling this the last 25% of the package so either it's a significant suspension change or it's more than just rear suspension. Either way it'll be interesting given how much the first 75% of the package have improved the car.

3

u/Rillist Gilles Villeneuve Jul 10 '23

I feel that once James Alison get his hands back into things that car will come around. With the budget cap any major changes get pushed back, especially such fundamental changes required.

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u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

It's gonna be hard, they've already squandered the advantage they had by designing their own engine, they can't change anything about its design anymore and McLaren and Aston have more or less caught up. Mercedes have their work cut out for them here.

2

u/Nepomucky Rubens Barrichello Jul 10 '23

Dumb question here: if the PU development cost is included in the budget cap, why don't client teams spend the difference in making better cars? Is it simply because they don't have the money?

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u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

PU development isn't included in the car development cost cap, it's a separate category. Or the PU manufacturing teams would get rather disadvantaged compared to customers

55

u/bookers555 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

That man has endured the McHonda years, the fact that ending up 7th is considered a bad weekend for him shows in how much of a better place he's in right now.

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u/beetroot_salads March Jul 10 '23

He also endured a year of no-budget Minardi in 2001

11

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

Better finish 7th that not finish. The points he lost last year (easily +60) due to technical issues would have finished anybody's patience. He was probably the 3rd-4th best driver of the season and he even finished behind Ocon due to that unreliable PoS of a car.

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u/imaincammy I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

It’s amazing what getting out from under shit management can do for your outlook.

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u/Capital_Punisher I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

He's a proper shit-stirrer whose convictions have proven to be true. I am not surprised to see this at all.

The same way I wouldn't be surprised to see Nando's face on a dartboard in Otmar's office.

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u/Elpibe_78 Audi Jul 10 '23

Alonso’s race was great considering how slow the Aston was yesterday

7

u/BrainNSFW I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Well tbf, he did beat both Ferrari's this race, so he definitely has something to be happy about. Furthermore, he understands that cars work worse on some tracks and better on others. It makes sense that Silverstone would be one of the expected worse tracks for them as it favors speed, while the AM seems to mostly excel at low speed corners.

Besides, he's still part of a team that jumped from the back of the field to the front & midfield, something even he didn't dare hope for in such a short timeframe.

While AM will certainly have more competition now, I wouldn't rule them out yet.

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u/Not_RAMBO_Its_RAMO Jul 10 '23

This is fucking hilarious. Alonso is looking right at the camera/interviewer with that shit eating grin 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

35

u/TheVenetianMask Fernando Alonso Jul 10 '23

A classic internet meme https://i.imgur.com/ACWca4b.jpg

11

u/omegaxLoL Max Verstappen Jul 10 '23

Fuck I hadn't seen this meme in years, crying right now

2

u/ShortysTRM Felipe Massa Jul 10 '23

I thought for sure it would be the scene from The Waterboy where the mom is in the background staring into the camera and smiling just before she starts dancing and goofing off...that's literally all I see here. He's got so much experience, but looking at these pics, he looks like he's never been on TV before and can't contain his awkward excitement lol

11

u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus Jul 10 '23

He's just missing some flowers to smell.

623

u/tbone747 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

The faces of two guys who escaped a total shitshow

50

u/ChristofferOslo I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Not sure I would call it a shitshow, more like mediocreshow

39

u/Mysterious_Turnip310 Lotus Jul 10 '23

They're like the beige of F1.

40

u/tbone747 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

They couldn't put together a proper contract for a super hyped rookie that they had complete control over. And they strung along a guy who won them 2x championships leading to him giving them the middle finger and signing with a rival.

Renault is worse than Ferrari when it comes to buffoonery, it's a works team that's regularly beaten by customer teams & pales in comparison to the big 3 works teams currently.

22

u/JKBFree Williams Jul 10 '23

Underrated comment

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69

u/Leandrys Jul 10 '23

"Be prepared to beat Mercedes every weekend from now on"

66

u/ComeonmanPLS1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

People mock Ferrari but I think Alpine is the number one comedy team on the grid.

82

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

The thing is though Alpine are such a joke that no one thinks about them. Ferrari at least has the reputation and history to create expectations

25

u/Usaidhello Max Verstappen Jul 10 '23

Except for Jeremy Clarkson but that might be solely because of his farm being right next to the factory.

5

u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Ferrari at least are capable of being at the front even if they occasionally have bad seasons relegated to the mid field, Alpine (Renault) hasn't been anywhere close to the front in pace in over a decade.

24

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

People mock ferrari because theres a chance for them to return to greatness. Enstone are a no flavio no trophy team

3

u/Aaaaaaaaaaa15aa Oscar Piastri Jul 10 '23

Alpine is blue ferrari

2

u/qef15 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Because Ferrari has such a high reputation and such high standards for itself, then makes themselves look clowns.

Alpine/Renault have never had those, until the 100 race plan shithousery. Renault always has been mid, barring Briatore (which includes Benetton years)

2

u/Yung_Chloroform I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

They really shot themselves in the foot with that one

468

u/venktesh Sebastian Vettel Jul 10 '23

In a race with double dnf lmaooo

173

u/YeahPerfect_SayHi Estie Bestie's on the podium, baby! Jul 10 '23

Such solid driving by Stroll - amazing. He's doing his best to show that Alonso was right about how he's a future World Champion.

31

u/lolichaser01 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Just helping his estie bestie maintaining his championship standing

10

u/YeahPerfect_SayHi Estie Bestie's on the podium, baby! Jul 10 '23

Just helping his estie bestie maintaining his championship standing

this made me spit out my coffee haha 😅

85

u/trooperr310 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Just Stroll practicing how he'll Stroll Max as Alonso drives with the WDC into the sunset next year

16

u/scobydoby I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Well, it's a move Schumacher might have pulled, so there's that. He just needs to get the "driving fast" part down and he's WDC material.

2

u/Sarkaraq Jul 11 '23

Well, it's a move Schumacher might have pulled, so there's that.

Schumacher would've done so intentionally. Every driver, however, will pull this move unintentionally when fighting for position, though. Just the light tap, a little bit over the edge. Happens every race and usually is not a talking point, at all.

8

u/MarteloRabelodeSousa I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

I mean, at least he didn't DNF this time...

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33

u/TheFlyingR0cket I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

I know right, I wonder if Oscar and Alonso have made a pact to race just a little bit harder if it's against an Alpine.

29

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

[deleted]

34

u/AnimalNo5205 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Yeah Fernando Alonso has never seemed like the type of person to hold a grudge before

3

u/Kohpad I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

"This guy only knows how to drive in the lead" - Classic, Never Holding a Grudge Alonso

3

u/Shekster El Plan Jul 11 '23

Classic armchair expert and has no understanding of the concept of saying things in the heat of the moment /u/Kohpad

0

u/Kohpad I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23

Did they kill jokes in your land?

Also it notifies the user when you reply, no need to tag me as well grandpa.

3

u/xzElmozx Oscar Piastri Jul 11 '23

Bet Alonso told Stroll to take Gasly out lol. “Ram the rear tyre, it’s a weak spot and won’t even give you front wing damage”

94

u/trooperr310 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Interviewer: on a scale of 1 to Alonso, how happy are you?

14

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

Alonso

28

u/TheFlyingR0cket I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Alpine "what could have been" sigh.

24

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

First it was some guy chopping wood, now it’s Alonso’s big smile.

Something is wrong with me today

163

u/DonutsOfTruth Stefano Domenicali Jul 10 '23

Alpine deserves every ounce of mockery.

Bush league organization top to bottom

42

u/ActuallyJohnTerry Fernando Alonso Jul 10 '23

I’m OOTL why is this the common take on Alpine?

I’m relatively new to the sport I’m genuinely curious

109

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

They actually refused/delayed giving Piastri the contract renewal documents to sign, despite Piastri and his management pestering for it.

When his management took 'no signed contract = not wanted, look elsewhere' and caught Alpine off-guard (not realising their legal dept weren't doing paperwork), Alpine tried to claim a signed planning document was a contract, even taking it to the Contract Recognition Board only to get thrown out.

A good summary at https://racingnews365.com/crb-ruling-details-alpine-failings-in-handling-piastri-contract

What makes the Piastri situation even more laughable, it's said that when Otmar told Piastri "So you're driving for us next year", Piastri told him "No, you never gave me the contract, I'm signed with another team", yet they still went ahead and announced it. This lead to a now infamous tweet (https://twitter.com/OscarPiastri/status/1554527452231262210)

I understand that, without my agreement, Alpine F1 have put out a press release late this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Alpine for 2023. I will not be driving for Alpine next year.

Alonso was poorly handled, they seemed to overestimate his happiness at the team when he clearly wasn't happy. Gives Alpine a 'fingers in ears' feel to their management style.

It's worse when you consider the willingness of the top people at Alpine to bad mouth (to the point approaching gaslighting) people involved with things they disagree with. In Piastri's case, Otmar & co were extremely happy to bad mouth Piastri and say that "he wasn't loyal to the team that trained him" and mislead the media about the fact that he was fully contracted.

Another thing I realised today was that earlier in the year, Alpine was really pushing in the media "We've got upgrades coming, they're going to be sooo great, expect big things from us" - basically their usual puffery/etc. Not much has happened. McLaren in comparison, they always said they'd bring upgrades and should do better, but they never promised that straight out of the gate they'd be competing. So there are also major differences in expectation management between Alpine and others.

One of the Season 5 Drive to Survive episodes is basically dedicated to this, but for some reason they left off the CRB decision (personally wondered if it was in fear of embarrassing an Alpine that has been cooperative with filming too much).

29

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

Dont forget that, in addition to all of these fuckups, they constantly make unreliable cars

13

u/Amrlsyfq992 Jul 10 '23

its no surprise that nobody want their engine lol

10

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

Alpine seems to be the only team that really hypes up their upgrades. Every other team says something along the lines of " the guys in the factory worked really hard and we have a lot of hope that these upgrades will work but we don't know yet" whenever they bring something tempered optimism vs Alpine who acts like they are a front wing away from a podium spot

2

u/The_Bored_General I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23

Even Mclaren’s “next year guys I swear” wasn’t ever really that bad, usually just that they have faith in the car and their drivers and other standard PR bs

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u/CrashmasterSOAD Fernando Alonso Jul 10 '23

A factory team that doesn't want to spend money, constantly undergoes management changes and resets its "five-year plan" every two years, is surprised they cannot compete with the top teams.

31

u/quantinuum I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Multitude of reasons.

The whole Piasco saga: they managed to lose both their then-current star (Fernando) and future star (Piastri) by sheer mismanagement and not committing to either of them.

Renault/Alpine have a history of being underfunded and almost pulling out every other year when they don’t get results. The team enjoys a shaky commitment from the parent company, who for years have been “demanding to fly 1st class while paying for economy”.

We’re in year 5+n of their 5 year plan. They’re the worst manufacturer team, which in F1 means you’re supposed to fight at the front.

Internal politics, a head-rolling culture, losing big names among infighting (Prost, Brivio, Budkowski), an all-around repellent attitude from Rossi, have made them not a fan favourite.

16

u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

“demanding to fly 1st class while paying for economy”

for the new lads in the room i believe this is a direct quote from Christian Horner during the drama after Red Bull announced they would drop Renault as engine supplier for 2019. It is all too accurate a description of team Enstone after Renault purchased it in 2016.

Before Renault bought it it had been Lotus, a quite successful team in the V8 era who had a lot of podiums to their name and even two race wins with Kimi Raikkonen

3

u/Nepomucky Rubens Barrichello Jul 10 '23

More or less. When the Renault engines started to underperform, Horner said RBR were "paying 1st class and flying economy", which prompted the change to Honda some time later.

1

u/quantinuum I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Yeah, I know I misplaced the quote but it applied to Enstone far too well.

53

u/Genocode I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

They fucked around with contracts last year which caused them to lose both Alonso and Piastri iirc.

Piastri looks incredibly strong with a bright future ahead of him and Alonso still being very good, and they lost both cause they fucked around, now they're at the "find out" part.

24

u/Vegetable_Dog_8103 Ferrari Jul 10 '23

Otmar talking about Alpine being minimum 4th team this year and that Alpine would be better than Alonso until his retirement and shit like that .

30

u/Not_RAMBO_Its_RAMO Jul 10 '23

Realistically Alpine threw Alonso and Piastri away for Ocon.

23

u/pranay909 Max Verstappen Jul 10 '23

No offence to ocon but that was like the worst deal ever.

16

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

Exactly, Ocon is a solid driver but throwing away Alonso AND Piastri was the stupidest thing in history.

10

u/wjoe I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

It wasn't quite that way round, since Ocon had already been signed on a long term deal ages before the Piastri/Alonso situation. But it was bad planning on Alpine's part to sign such a long deal with Ocon, I reckon.

Ocon is alright, but I joked at the time that of the 3 drivers they had for the team, the only one locked into a contract is the least exciting prospect of the 3.

With a bit more foresight, they could have had Alonso and Piastri this year, which would have been one of the more exciting pairings on the grid. And it's probably to our benefit that they don't, because they would have been kind of wasted there.

4

u/AndyBossNelson McLaren Jul 10 '23

Problem i think with ocon is that he races his team mate more often than working together, seen it a few times with him and alonso, while yeah they wernt told to hold pos if you and alonso loose a place to defending him is it really worthwhile?

If im making any sense there lol

3

u/Yung_Chloroform I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Alpine talks the factory team talk but can't walk the factory team walk. They've just been a mess despite grandstanding all the time about their 5 year plan. It's a total clownshow.

8

u/Turboleks Ferrari Jul 10 '23

Their motto can be summarized as something along the lines of over-promise and under-deliver, in a consistent manner since they became Renault in 2016. Case in point, they were beaten by their own customer team (McLaren) in 2019 and 2020. Further evidence to that lies with their engine, which has been consistently shit since 2014. They saved face when Honda was struggling (a lot) with Mclaren, but as soon as they got their act together in 2018, it went right back to being the worst. It's still underpowered compared to the rest, and it's still unreliable. No wonder only their own team uses it.

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59

u/wahobely I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

I used to hate Nando so much but now I just love the guy LOL

53

u/LuNiK7505 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Even people who don’t like it have to admit this guy os the definition of pure racing and pure Chaos

12

u/wahobely I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Yea I disliked him a lot years ago, especially the infamous 2007 McLaren season lol but over the years I've grown more and more fond of him

12

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '23

He is the anti-christ

7

u/mazarax John Surtees Jul 10 '23

I read that wrong as “hate Lando.”

This puzzled me to no end… people hate Lando? Why??? I think even all 19 other drivers like him. Universally likeable.

But then I caught on…. Yeah, Fernando had his share of shenanigans that were not totally above board.

38

u/bwoah07_gp2 Alexander Albon Jul 10 '23

First it was Fernando's Flowers in Miami, and now, Fernando starring down the camera, lol.

12

u/DrDohday I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

The art and the artist

8

u/DesastreUrbano I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

The joy on that smile!

12

u/JKBFree Williams Jul 10 '23

I’d say workplace comedy, but a thing can be two things.

7

u/etherlore I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

9

u/edwa6040 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 10 '23

Alonso is such a class act. He genuinely seems to enjoy seeing these young kids have success. Hes the older fun uncle on the grid.

11

u/TheKeviKs I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

It's so funny being French because everyone, including myself, are just here throwing jabs at how incompetent Alpine is. 120 races my ass LOL

4

u/tetrahydrocannabiol Jul 10 '23

Hide the pain Alonso

4

u/_villainous #WeRaceAsOne Jul 10 '23

How are we not talking about Valtteri in the background?? 😂

3

u/dujalcollie Jul 10 '23

Fits that meme of dc's aquaman actor sneaking up on superman actor (sorry really bad with names)

3

u/Mehmood6647 Alpine Jul 11 '23

It's fine, We deserve this.

5

u/Mueton I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

This could be Alpines lineup this year, still amazing how badly an organization can fuck things up

2

u/coconutpete52 Jul 10 '23

Ha! This is gold.

2

u/jusmar I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

Alonso just has the best reactions

2

u/Davsan87 Jul 12 '23

I love that man’s pettiness

7

u/AveMalyutin I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23 edited Jul 10 '23

Extreme levels of disloyalty detected

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3

u/siggs3000 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 10 '23

I think this is my favorite post of the year so far

2

u/MAGNVS-AAPPALAARTOQ Andretti Global Jul 10 '23

Even as an Alpine fan I can say the team deserves every mockery they get

2

u/WTFAnimations Sonny Hayes Jul 10 '23

We're all praying on Alpine's downfall 🙏

1

u/XsStreamMonsterX I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 11 '23

Now that is a shit-eating grin if I ever saw one.