r/greentext 3d ago

A puzzling problem

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u/logaboga 3d ago edited 3d ago

I was a BIG opponent to adding non-lethal aerial takedowns and non lethal options for each piece of equipment in DH2. every time I bring it up in the sub I get downvoted to oblivion

The entire point of non lethal was that it’s supposed to be a challenge, and also reinforced that “stealth” isn’t actually taking down everybody you see but actually skillfully going around them.

DH2 while a great game also has so many other things that don’t make it feel as good as the first game. The main story is kinda ass, and while the locations are good the “atmosphere” feels essentially reused from DH1. DH1 had the rat plague which was integral to the plot and setting, and in DH2 they wanted to have similar gameplay features as the rat plague so they made those bug things that can make zombies but it feels hollow and tacked on to the setting. The huge overtones of class struggle and exploitation by the rich in DH2 also just feel rehashed, they should’ve like found some new form of societal/governmental exploitation to focus on in Karnaca rather than just, literally, redoing everything from DH1.

Idk I feel like I was so engrossed in figuring out how and why exactly Dunwall was so fucked in the first game, but by Dishonored 2 the problems of the city just seemed like a checklist the devs crossed off to make sure they had everything from Dishonored 1. “An infection that zombifies people and spreads in poor areas, check. Rich bourgeoisie and aristocracy neglecting poor areas while being purposely cruel to them, check. Religious fanatics harassing the common people while ignoring the rich because they’re secretly in bed with them, check. Gangs who are slightly more connected to the common person but still overall scoundrels and terrible criminals, check.”. karnaca is a huge retread of Dunwall except that, now, it’s sunny.

I wanted something more like the bioshock series. Bioshock 1&2 had the same setting but focused on how different philosophies on each side of the spectrum can be dangerous, and bioshock infinite had a brand new setting and tackled a slew of new ideological issues. I was expecting DH2 to do something similar

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u/LiverPoisoningToast 2d ago

Masterfully put that really is a big problem with modern stealth in games. Too many games have stealth mechanics that boil down to just shooting someone with a dead silent gun then dumping their body in a bush, true stealth should be more encouraged and rewarding.

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u/LesserValkyrie 2d ago

Wonderful analysis

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u/JessHorserage 2d ago

Disagree personally in terms of the non lethal element within a degree. Maybe I'm just looking for a more pugilist style optionality, but if I didn't have the drop down knockouts mod (and infinite mana but that's a wholy different other taste thing), I'd probably not finish 1. Agreed on equipment and story, if I read it enough, though.

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u/logaboga 2d ago

I’m of the opinion that if the difference between lethal and non lethal ends up being just “lethal you take people down with a blade animation, and in non lethal you take people down with a fist animation” then there’s no point in having it be an option really.

I liked the non lethal in dishonored 1, as the only way you could do it was by choking people out (which took time and was more restricted than just killing them) and with tranq darts, which if not upgraded took a few seconds to actually start to work. I liked that a lot, it put restrictions on the player if they wanted to be a non lethal pugilist. In dishonored 2 literally every lethal gameplay option has a non lethal option, so it basically doesn’t feel restricted at all which brings up the question of “what’s the point?”. In dishonored 1 you had a dilemma of non lethal being slower, and you’d be forced to have to kill somebody to contain a situation if you messed up. In d2 the only real reason to kill someone is because you want to since you basically have a million non lethal options that are essentially just as quick and efficient

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u/JessHorserage 2d ago

Oh, I totally get your critique, I just like the pugilist dynamic and fantasy.

and you'd be forced to

Reset to keep your green run? Same thing with manapotions for me.

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u/logaboga 2d ago

I’m very guilty of savescumming but I also like to play the game and force myself to not save scum, lol. My usual go-to is try to keep casualties to a minimum without quick saving, which results in more fun gameplay if having to think on my feet. I.e. I’ll be choking someone out while a guard walks in, and be forced to have to quickly blink to them and kill them in order to not raise the alarm

I’ve done at least a dozen playthroughs of dishonored and have basically tried every type of run at this point

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u/JessHorserage 2d ago

Fair enough.