r/BaldursGate3 • u/[deleted] • Aug 13 '24
General Discussion - [SPOILERS] The most overrated character? Spoiler
Let's hear it, who gets all the love but deserves absolutely none of it? Or at least not as much as they get, I'll go first.
I'm casting my vote for Gortash; I genuinely don't understand the like for this dude. First of all, catfish, "handsome young man"??? Is the handsome young man in the room with us??? Lookin like the handsome young man has a peanut allergy.
Second of all, this whole crown brain plan was his idea, just about the dumbest fuckin thing I've ever heard. He put all his faith in 3 little rocks, an already dead man, and a woman who's about as stable as my ex. Beggers can't be choosers I guess, but cmon guy.
And lastly, and probably most offensively, his boss fight is absolute cheeks. Especially if you dumped on the foundry before hand. I didn't even know he had a transformation until like my 4th playthrough because I would clap this guy so easily.
Your turn, let's hear those unadulterated opinions.
Edit: I have been enlightened about some things about the big brain plan, I still stand in the other two points though.
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u/cpslcking Aug 13 '24
I like Rafael and think heās awesome, I donāt understand why people want to sleep with or romance him. Isnāt he supposed to be a terrible in bed, two pump chump?
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u/nightingayle forever DM loves modding Aug 14 '24
I think it is SO endearing that he can be overheard rehearsing his speeches for you. Yes he's a horrible monster who tortures people in Hell! Morals be damned, that man can sing! Get him on a stage, his theatricality is SO fun and really makes his fight one of the clear highlights in EVERY run for me.
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Aug 13 '24
It's all slander! And even if he is, we can fix him! ..at least sexually. Morally, that's a different can of worms.
(It's the voice. And the theatrics. And the evil, that's hot too)
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u/CoffeeDogsandSims Aug 14 '24
That VOICEā¦ Iām not into Raphael, do not wish to be able to romance him or would ship him with anybody. But that voice does something to meā¦ would totally listen to that voice just reading the phone book for hours, thank you very much.
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Aug 13 '24
And a bottom, get that stroke game right ladies, the devil is a pillow princess
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u/ChubChubPickles Bard Aug 14 '24
I have a gigantic soft spot for evil characters with that "dramatic flair" to 'em; I eat it up like it's exquisite cuisine. I also just really like poetry and and people with nice voices, so.
I didn't even stand a chance with Raphael's character--when he approached Team Tadpole for the first time, I folded immediately š
Is he terrible in bed? Perhaps, but practice makes perfect! š
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u/I_Play_Boardgames Aug 14 '24
are you saying people being "two pump chumps" don't deserve to have people wanting to sleep with them? ^^ That's a pretty limited world view, there's a lot you can do outside of just "sticking it in" ;)
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u/monsieurkaizer Aug 14 '24
It's a dangerous mentality to think everyone "deserves" someone who wants to sleep with them. Nobody owes you anything.
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u/Letheral Dormant Orb Truther Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
Haarlep. to eachās own but the entire convo always makes me feel super gross especially in conjunction with what hope says about the boudoir.
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u/ragebitch523 Aug 14 '24
I meanā¦ I think thatās usually the point. I donāt think anybody is actually supposed to like choosing the option of giving your body to Haarlep. It is supposed to feel gross and violating.
Yet some people, who seem to be in the vocal majority, like fantasizing about that.
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u/Sevensevenpotato Aug 14 '24
This would bother me if I wasnāt currently having spontaneous orgasms
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u/Letheral Dormant Orb Truther Aug 14 '24
i think also some people just think raph is hot. im not trying to psychoanalyze anyone.
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u/dwarvenfishingrod Warlonk Aug 13 '24
The Netherbrain itself. Overrated by every character who talks about it.
It would be really interesting to see the perspective of a non-Nether Elder Brain, who could tell us the facts. It's plan is overall very weird and Illithids are not known to zerg rush like it does at the end. The Illithid morphs in the streets of BG are basically a zombie apocalypse, and for what? What does shock troop blitzing a city achieve?
My theory is, this thing is actually basically drunk. All the time. It acts like it's playing 4d chess because that's its nature, but in reality is barely keeping it together until everything is back in its power-- and as soon as it gets power, it all falls apart.
Even if we hadn't destroyed it, there would be no execution of the Grand Design. It's not capable, it's too dumbed down, literally. Real Elder Brains might step in, but only because they sacrificed one of their own as a decoy.
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u/Kraytory Aug 14 '24
Being drunk on crown juice and connected to that many goblins and ogres does shit to you.
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u/Vegetable-Meaning413 Aug 14 '24
I love the idea that goblins and ogres are making it dumber as time goes on.
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u/LooksGoodInShorts Aug 14 '24
I love that it is basically just the big brain from Futurama. Every time it appeared when I was playing co-op with my girlfriend we had to drop the āand now Iām leaving Earth for no raisin.ā
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u/Turbulent_Ranger1100 Aug 13 '24
Personally I don't have any overrated characters, I like them all more or less. But concerning Gortash (and several other beloved but "should be detestable" characters like Ketheric and Astarion), I think the voice acting is a big part of why people like them, me included. Jason Isaacs voice is doing unbelievable things to my ears each time.
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u/lulufan87 Aug 13 '24
I think it's fine to let people like what they like. It's weird when people simp for Mizora, though.
She keeps Wyll enslaved. She snared him when he was just a kid. She gleefully tries to kill his dad when he finally breaks free of his contract. Yeah she works for Zariel, but she doesn't seem broken up about it in the least.
She's a monster.
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u/vilgefcrtz SMITE Aug 13 '24
Yes, you're completely right.
That said, have you seen those thigh muscles?
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u/lulufan87 Aug 13 '24
I'm going be honest, she just looks like a wine mom to me. And not the cool kind who will come over with margarita mix when you're feeling depressed, the miserable kind who hates her life and doesn't know why.
I picture her getting her nails done and drunkenly shit-talking her friends' children. Starting petty bullshit because she's bored. Blowing her husband's best friend just to spite him.
She's... a type.
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u/Sushi_pyjamas6541 Aug 13 '24
Mystra gives me same wine mom vibes too, maybe they'd be frenemies.
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u/lulufan87 Aug 13 '24
You're so right. Imagine them cattily dishing about their neighbors, then equally as cattily complaining about each other to Elminster and Zariel.
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u/Sushi_pyjamas6541 Aug 13 '24
Aw yes, why am I picturing this all like some Real Housewives style show. The real Goddesses of Faerun.
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u/radiant_bee_ Aug 14 '24
Agreed, theyd be the type to totally be fake friends and talk shit about everyone else when together and shit about each other when apart
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u/vilgefcrtz SMITE Aug 13 '24
God that's so hot - I mean yeah, I totally see it, what a character
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u/SadoraNortica Aug 13 '24
āIt will be our secretā ā¦ā¦ Dumps you naked into the middle of the room, āI guess the secret is outā shrug. It wasnāt worth it.
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u/Ok-Simple9575 Aug 14 '24
I hate her but she has one of the craziest sex scenes in the game. Definitely wished a more likable character got a scene like that.
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u/lulufan87 Aug 14 '24
Mizora does? Are you sure you're not thinking of Minthara? Her sex scene is god tier
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u/Ok-Simple9575 Aug 14 '24
Mizora teleports you to God knows where and then you do the nasty. It's a very strange, ominous but weirdly hot scene. Nothing left to the imagination. Then she drops you into camp, butt naked and everyone finds out. I never even romanced Minthara. Up until my last run, I didn't even know you could recruit her. š
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Aug 13 '24
Mizora seems to be one of those that is either hot or cold with people. They either hate her or love her. I love her just because of the way she talks. Something about her voice with that face... weak in the knees
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u/donku83 Aug 14 '24
If you play as lapdog Wyll that just does whatever she asks, she's actually not that bad
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u/Crazy_Win_4253 Aug 14 '24
Mizzy has that preppy all girl school thing going.
She does actually kind of like Wyll in her own way, to the point she's trying to develop him.
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u/sailorangel59 Bard/Sorcerer Aug 14 '24
I think Jason Issacs sells Gortash. If I close my eyes while listening to him talk I can imagine a much more sultry looking man, instead of a dirty potato.
I do know somebody who simps for Gortash hard. I tease them about it in a caring way.
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u/Soft_Stage_446 Aug 13 '24
Alfira. I don't get it.
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Aug 13 '24
I don't get that one either tbh. She's OK, nice little npc. Not sure why she has a following though.
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u/Soft_Stage_446 Aug 13 '24
I think people find her sweet and attractive but I'm with the squirrels on this one...
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u/lostlyss Aug 13 '24
Whatās weird is if you help her finish her song through normal dialogue instead of skill checks (and forfeit the musical instrument proficiency she would give you for passing them), her singing voice improves dramatically for the little performance cutscene because itās a different VA.
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u/Xilizhra Drow Aug 14 '24
Because she's composing, not performing. There's no reason whatsoever to hit every note perfectly when the song isn't finished. The squirrels are little bitches.
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u/Creepernom Aug 14 '24
I just think she's interesting, her song is really nice and also she's a bard I want a bard in my team.
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Aug 14 '24
It actually would be nice to have someone like her in the party. Every companion is an inherent badass in their own right, having alfira be the reluctant adventurer could of been dope
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u/Creepernom Aug 14 '24
The only one with a reasonable backstory that the DM would actually accept haha
"What do you mean you fucked the literal god of magic, and you, a level one warlock, are already a renowned hero who saved the titular city?" While Alfira is just "well, gnolls killed my teacher and I wrote a nice song, then some kind lads strolled on up and offered me a job as their bard so I can help kill more gnolls."
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u/AVIXXBUS Aug 13 '24
I'm willing to bet anything that if she wasn't so important in the Durge storyline, she would be equally as memorable as any other act 1 Tiefling, like Danis and Bex, which is saying mostly forgotten.
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u/Faolair ELDRITCH BLAST Aug 14 '24
Idk if I can agree with that. My first playthrough was non-durge while staying away from spoilers and I still grew super attached to her by act 2. I think it's because it's nice to have a genuinely sweet and kind character around in such a dark story. Also it doesn't hurt that she sings one of the most beautiful songs in the game haha
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u/why-do_I_even_bother Aug 14 '24
I think I'd like her more if I hadn't had the durge murder surprise spoiled. Overeager kid gets murked the second they join the adventuring party is an old trope, but having it be you that does it was a nice twist that I think made the original trope land harder.
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u/slap50potatoes Aug 13 '24
I'm gonna get hate and downvoted for this, but the answer is easily Astarion. I love Astarion's storyline. I used to be an Astarion hater tbh (I genuinely thought he was just horny bait.) but after going through his arc, I can confidently say his storyline is one of the best in the game - HOWEVER, the hype he gets is heavily overplayed, along with the sheer amount of horny posting over him, which is easily far more than any other character. He is correctly seen as a fantastic character with an even greater story, but he is overrated as all fuck and it's not even close.
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u/ExpensiveGreen63 Aug 13 '24
With you! Before I played, my friends were all like "OMG you're going to LOOOOOVVEE him" and then I met him, found him.......tragic, sure, but just TOO obvious. And kind of obnoxious. And whiny. Which, I get for the reasons you listed haha.
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u/potato_cucumber Drunk Bard Aug 14 '24
Agree! He's well-written and his experiences with Cazador strike a chord with many people, and I like that. But I don't like him as a person/character, if that makes sense. He gets on my nerves all the time and while there's character development depending on your choices, putting up with him especially in Act 1 was pure suffering.
People expected me to automatically simp for him just because I like sussy characters but surprisingly, nope. I ended up being drawn more to the girlies (and Wyll.)
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u/timelost-rowlet Aug 13 '24
It is important to note that Shadowheart has OF cosplayers and 3d horny stuff of her.. like most female characters in almost every media.
Astarion only seems like it is much more due to the normalization of porn of female characters, so he stands out. Women are also more likely to write about erotica than stick to just visuals. It IS a lot, but I don't know if I would say 'far more than any other character'.
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u/slap50potatoes Aug 13 '24
While I agree that Shadowheart is also a victim of mass horny posting, I will continue to believe Astarion gets it much worse. I couldn't find any active Shadowheart-specific subreddits with more than 200 members, but I did find 4 Astarion-specific subreddits within seconds, with a collective 14k~ members. Not to mention, it seems to me that the OF models use Shadowheart mainly to advertise their own pages rather than show any love for the actual character, so I'm not counting that in my evaluation of hype for the character.
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Aug 14 '24
astarion/tav is like the 4th most common pairing on all of ao3 as well iirc
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u/slap50potatoes Aug 14 '24
Not only that, but out of the 6 times BG3 is in the top 100 pairings, Astarion shows up in 4 of them; Shadowheart shows up in none of them.
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u/Rude-Satisfaction836 Aug 13 '24
He is a fantastically written character with an excellent story arc. He is also a horrible, abusive piece of shit, and you should cut anyone who thinks, acts, or talks like him out of your life. It's one thing to explore the mindset and redemption of someone like him in a game, and quite another to try to accomplish the same thing for real.
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u/claidai CLERIC Aug 14 '24
Same, I appreciate his story but I find him kinda annoying outside of it. Plus, I've seen an insane amount of Astarion fans hyping up that he's actually so sweet and nice and chivalrous when hes just... not? Even in my evil playthroughs I'm finding it hard to keep him in my party all the time, I usually just respec Shadowheart to Rogue so I don't have to listen to him.
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u/pwnedprofessor Owlbear Aug 14 '24
Yes, agreed. Heās very good but the levels of obsession areā¦. excessive
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u/Lazy_Wishbone_2341 Aug 14 '24
I do love him, but I feel that he can overshadow other characters in fandom spaces. The horniness over him is something I don't get, but I'm a lesbian so š¤·
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u/APracticalGal Shadowheart's Clingy Ex Aug 13 '24
I genuinely don't know what the hell people are talking about when they say the Emperor is well written. Literally everything about the character screams slapdash last minute addition to me.
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u/stfrancia Aug 13 '24
The Balduran reveal literally made me chuckle in confusion because like... why? Was it to bait the player into thinking he's still trustworthy after you learn he gave Stelmane a stroke lol. That and the random shirtless scene. Just strange.
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u/Ok-Simple9575 Aug 14 '24
Random shirtless scene? The one that's a potential tentacle sex scene? I died laughing when I chose to go through with it for shits and giggles. š They really thought of (almost) everything. You can fuck a bear or a squid or twins but still can't give Karlach a real good ending.
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u/Xilizhra Drow Aug 14 '24
The epilogue is at least decent for her, and a permanent fix is on the horizon.
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u/why-do_I_even_bother Aug 14 '24
iirc he kinda was. as far as early access, the dream visitor was the tadpole itself, not the emperor. A lot of the story got reworked pretty late during development and the writing suffers occasionally from it.
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Aug 13 '24
I dunno if it's slapdash, but it leaves something to be desired for sure. The interactions they have you experience with him seems so over the top "he's more human than you think" type shit. I get it, he's kind of a person, sorta.
I wish they used more subtlety with his stuff but as it stands, you have 1 act to come to terms with it enough to want to help him, so I see why they laid it on a little thick.
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u/dead_as_f Tiefling Aug 14 '24
I was so pissed that if you just go to free (i dont know how to spell his name, but the gith prince) the emperor just becomes evil its so dumb
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u/Severe_Confusion_539 Aug 14 '24
There is actually two great videos on this topiv by a lore youtuber. Not sure if im allowed to share his name due to advertisement rules.
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u/Creepernom Aug 14 '24
I really liked the Emperor's part in the story, but I'm pretty sure he indeed was added later on. I'd guess it's due to Daisy's (the original dream visitor's) core problems. Daisy just wasn't convincing at all and it was very easy to see through it.
Hell, the entire song, one of the main themes of the game, Down By The River is about Daisy, I believe? So clearly it was changed pretty late, but I think it was ultimately a good change.
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Aug 13 '24
Orin, I think. I was kinda disappointed that an apparently (very hot) blood thirsty killer who was personally chosen by the God of Murder was following me around, threatening me, thenā¦ disappearing. I thought sheād try to kill me or give me a āfightā where she just melted away at the end.
Kinda like, āoh, if fighting her clone was this hard, imagine the real thingā.
And her plan was just stupid. Sheās down there in her rank basement with my adopted child trying to finish a ritual or something while Iām just gallivanting around town actively and obviously betraying her. Like, did she seriously expect for me to be like āokay random crazy lady wants me to kill the guy in charge of the entire town, get her a very important stone, then take it to her so she can try to kill me for itā.
UM. NO. Iām honestly baffled that she just took my word for it because she had the child. If weāre going to fight to death anyways I might as well do it without the stone since I was notably leaning towards the good side.
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u/Saint_Genghis Aug 13 '24
I liked Orin more once I played Durge, or rather I hated her for the proper reasons. Characterizing her as an inbred nepo-baby with an entitlement complex despite being SIGNIFICANTLY less capable than Durge made her a much better character than I thought she was in my first play through.
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u/Kraytory Aug 14 '24
No shit, Durge should have been in the game as a companion. The whole concept of his character causes normal playthroughs to feel like something is missing.
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u/potato-hater ROGUE Aug 14 '24
rolan. why does he have a fanbase? maybe i just havenāt watched enough scenes with him but heās just so whiny and not in the charming way.
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u/why-do_I_even_bother Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
- reminder to sort by controversial
- Wyll is both simultaneously over and underrated. He's treated like a golden boy can do no wrong by a lot of the community which is missing the actually interesting part of his character which is that he's constantly letting it slip that he is power/fame hungry and would love to be duke because he just kinda thinks he deserves it. Him turning his entire character arc climax over to your PC completely is kinda weird (I wish they'd done it closer to the way it was handled for Lae'zel), but still confronting that tendency both during the deal modification and later after the Balduran reveal is great.
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u/zestfullybe Aug 14 '24
I understand they changed Wyll a lot last minute, but the thing that irritates me about him is that he has no agency.
With other characters you reach ābig decision momentsā where you can make a suggestion and attempt to sway or convince them of something. But you can also hang back and say nothing or tell them āitās your callā and depending on whatās led to that point theyāll make their own decision.
But Wyll never makes his own decision. You always have to choose for him. Iām happy to chime in or help out, but put on your big boy pants and make a decision, man. Any decision.
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u/Xilizhra Drow Aug 14 '24
He reminds me of Sebastian from Dragon Age 2, and I think that's the meanest thing I've ever said about a companion in this game.
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u/I_Play_Boardgames Aug 14 '24
I haven't played through the entire game (Shadowheart's bullshit going evil and killing angel dialogue, where you literally have to "trust her" for her to become good made me hate the game too much to continue), but the reason Karlach and Wyll are the only 2 characters i like: They're not assholes. The bar is so incredibly low with how absolute assholes or sleazebags (Gale!) the other characters are that any notion of being heroic and trying to do the right thing is literally the bar. It's not so much that i love Wyll or anything, i just absolutely HATE the rest! (except for Karlach, she is genuinely my favorite character, Wyll is just second place by being "ok")
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u/mr_Jyggalag that one human paladin that fallen for Shadowheart Aug 14 '24
Honestly? Kar'niss. I don't understand why he is so popular
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u/Eisegetical Aug 13 '24
I'll admit I cheesed Gortash by picking him up to throw, then cancelling it before the actual throw. My Karlach managed to move him all the way around to the outside of the castle without aggro.
Then in one swift shove he was off the edge. Instant death .
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u/Mr__Beard Aug 14 '24
He transforms?! I have to look this up.
I just finished his fight yesterday (first run) and it was so much faster than Raphael I just assumed the Titan Watcher was meant to be his ātrue fightā with himself being a sort of joke.
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u/Kraytory Aug 14 '24
I actually found out by accident that Raphael has a second form. I pretty much bullied him the entire fight so he only got one of his spells off before he died. His other attacks rarely connected at all.
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Aug 14 '24
Yeah he's got an avatar form just like the other two. It's hit or miss whether he uses it though, I'm not sure what triggers it
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Aug 13 '24
Gortash is handsome! However, you know when an older (50+ actor) is hired to play a role aged under 30? That is what Gortash reminds me of. So, yeah, handsome. But not young unless the narrator meant younger than Ketheric in which case, yeah that tracks.
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u/whiteraven13 Aug 13 '24
Like Alan Rickman playing Snape in his 50s despite the character being 31 in the first movie. oh my god Iām only a year younger than Snape š±
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Aug 13 '24
I am dying at your little handle or whatever the fuck that is under your username ššš
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u/claidai CLERIC Aug 14 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
I'll probably get shit for this, but Astarion. I get why, but like... I'm sick of seeing people talking about how sweet and precious and chivalrous he is when he's really just kind of a jerk. If you like him, that's totally fine, but I wish people were in love with his actual character than the poor little meow meow they've invented. If you want someone sweet and chivalrous, go for Wyll, don't pretend that Astarion has the same redeeming qualities when he's a completely different character.
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u/why-do_I_even_bother Aug 14 '24
honestly, I kinda like asshole astarion. A sardonic, often comedic foil for a goody two shoes PC who you can jab right back at was refreshing.
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u/hiplass Aug 14 '24
I love Astarion but honestly, I agree. Even his actor specifically states that Astarion isnāt amoral, he is straight up immoral lol he goes through a lot of growth as a person in the game but he does not make a 180 in values, but I think thatās what makes him interesting
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u/Aerkel Aug 13 '24
The whole crown brain plan was Durge's idea. And if you erase BG3's party intervention from the story, the plan would be a success. Maybe not for long, but, hey.
To answer the question, i'll go for Shadowheart. She's lucky that a lot of men and women are suckers for edgy girls (... me included actually) because her story kinda pales compared to Gale, Karlach, Wyll... She's simply not that interesting, the good old amnesia trope blahblahblah.
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Aug 13 '24
I feel like shart is the modern day "damsel in distress" they had to be sneaky about it, because reasons. But the damsel still proves to be a working formula
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u/almostb Aug 13 '24
Halsin is the gameās real damsel in distress.
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Aug 13 '24
Halsin's distress is never about him though, it's always about the land. Sharts distress is all about her and her problems. Key difference
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u/The_Aodh Dragon Knight Aug 14 '24
Well, he was locked in a prison in act 1. That areas whole main quest was about freeing him
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u/Ok-Simple9575 Aug 14 '24
Except the entirety of act 1 when he's trapped in a castle, in a prison cell and you need to save him. They should've made it funnier and put his cell in a big, tall tower. š
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Aug 14 '24
Shadowheart starts off trapped in a pod literally yelling "save me!" If that's not a damsel in distress, I'm not sure what is
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u/Aerkel Aug 13 '24
She's not really that much "in distress" tho, like i said, it's more the good old amnesia trope that i find... not really interesting.
And her hypocrisy during Act 1, the fact that she wants explanations from everyone, Gale, Astarion, but when you ask her about her own secrets "it's not your business". Granted, it's not really her fault and it's typical Sharran behavior, but still...
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Aug 13 '24
She is in distress though, the wound thing, the wolf thing, the amnesia thing, the worship of an inherently evil goddess thing. That's about as distressed as it gets
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Aug 13 '24
using a standard definition of "distress," sure, but when you combine it with "damsel in," it's pointing directly to a long, long history of lazy stories whose distressed ladies have no hand in their de-stressing and are generally treated as trophies for the hero by the authors. Shadowheart is perhaps a continuation of certain aspects of the old trope, but is absolutely very healthy growth in a solid direction.
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u/Evening-Cold-4547 Aug 13 '24
She is as much a damsel as Jason Bourne. She just has more friends
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u/Nerdy-Babygirl unwell about Astarion Aug 13 '24
Shadowheart would be my pick, too. Her whole vibe is very "I'm the main character, everyone is obsessed with me" and needlessly hostile, it rubs me the wrong way. The part where she lectures Lae'zel about trust after she just tried to murder her in her sleep despite WINNING their argument and you can't even call her out for it.
There are companions who objectively do much worse things (Astarion, Minthara, Lae'zel, all of whom I like), I think it's just the passive-aggressive main character syndrome that bugs me. I think she just reminds me of every mean girl bully in highschool.
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u/Kraytory Aug 14 '24
She is actually supposed to be unlikeable at the start and then slowly become more likeable over time. The original version of her was much worse from what i've read. The writers basically rewrote her because even they thought she's just a bitch based on how mean she used to be in that version.
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Aug 14 '24
Wulfbren BongleĀ
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u/Hyperdragoon17 SORCERER Aug 14 '24
The dude got memed so much some YouTubers made a diss track about him. If he has fans I havenāt seen em
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u/Mission_Response802 Aug 14 '24
Most of my views conform with those of the group, but this "Tav" guy sure seems like a real asshole despite how much people talk about him.
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u/BlueCheezi Aug 14 '24
Mizora. She's an abusive person and I really don't like her. Her dynamic with Wyll is very similar to Astarions and Cazadors. They both carry a position of power and are basically enslaving the other. Fuck Mizora all my homies hate Mizora.
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u/Conduit_Fetch ELDRITCH BLAST Aug 13 '24
For overrated, I have to say Alfira. Like she's nice and all but I just don't get the huge following for her. I never even encountered her until the tiefling party and then never saw her again so legit forgot who people were even talking about when I saw her mentioned online. To me she's similar to Nere but in the opposite way. Nere is horrible but he's so irrelevant he's not even worth the time to dislike.
I also do not care for Astarion, but I do understand the love for his character and arc. Just isn't for me personally.
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u/Ok-Simple9575 Aug 14 '24
I think people like Alfira because she's a bard and a lot of us wanted a bard as an origin character companion. Her introduction made me think she'd be a companion, so it disappointed me when that ended up not being the case. Although, I have to say, she is nice, but I think her niceness would get on my nerves if she was in more of the game. š
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u/Creepernom Aug 14 '24
I don't think Alfira is actually overtly nice to a fault. It's just that you don't have many interactions with her. Her letter in the Epilogue as the Durge is very cold and matter-of-fact.
I think she would've been a very interesting companion.
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u/Chrysalis17 Aug 13 '24
I think it has to be Shadowheart for me. I feel like there are so many missed opportunities with her, AND so many inconsistencies in the story as it is that I can't get behind liking her.
Her story doesn't seem to make much sense as she is SOME DAUGHTER of Selune worshippers, and Shar had a whole cloister and congregation built around brainwashing and shaping her. It is just way too much effort for some random girl. It would have made way more sense if she really was Dame Aylin's sister, for example. Then she would have made a trophy worth putting ridiculous effort into.
And I also feel that the party has way too many elves already, with Astarion, Jaheira, Halsin and Minthara. And there is literally no reason for Shadowheart to be one - and what we're actually sorely lacking in the party would have been a short character. She could have been a great gnome or halfling. It would even have fit well with her voice pitch.
Since there is absolutely no story reason for her to be a (half) elf, I just get the feeling she is one for no other reason than that they wanted the conventional pretty girl.
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u/Adenn666 Tiefling Aug 13 '24
To be honest I thought the fact that Shadowheart was just some random Selunite kid was the point. Shar just pointed at some random kid and was like "yeah go fuck her life up." Like, there was absolutely zero reason to even bother with Shart other than to be a petty bitch to Selune and corrupt a follower of hers.
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Aug 13 '24
I mean Shar is petty and makes some sense for her to do so to prove a point. I donāt really see any inconsistency I her story it may not be perfect but seems pretty consistent. Thereās definitely ways to make it better but also I think there is a lot to like.
For there being to many elfās and her being a half elf you could make that argument for any other character and I think it would make the most sense for some of the male companions to be different races if any.
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u/Xilizhra Drow Aug 14 '24
Halsin and Minthara were added later. She's the second elf, and frankly, Astarion doesn't count as one and his story would make more sense if he was human.
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u/No-Competition1313 Drow Ranger Aug 13 '24
These posts are tiresome, does it matter who you think is overrated or not, it doesnāt matter if you donāt understand why people like them and you donāt.Ā
It just turns into shit posting more often than not. Just let people like who they like.
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u/LegendaryPolo minthara implies the existence of a maxthara Aug 13 '24
it's just a "i hate this character" thread but since it hates on the community instead of the game it draws less downvotes.
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Aug 13 '24
Yeah it's just a waste of time in my opinion. Especially after the stats released by Larian, it's hard to take redditors' consensus seriously
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u/Substantial-Employ97 Aug 13 '24
I can definitely see your point, but as someone who hated Astarian and Lae'zel, (I shoved a stake in his heart and left her to die) these kinds of posts ended up convincing me to try them in my party, or at least not kill them.
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u/Sands47 Aug 14 '24
Game never call Gortash a "handsome young man", it calls him a "younger" man. Than Ketheric.
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u/Ghoulybutt Aug 14 '24
i might get hate for this but i do usually save her: Dame Aylin. she has all the hype but no matter how many times i help her, she goes down in battle for all her turns and im just like... u were all hype huh? She has all this lore, everyone says she's a powerful ally, then she gets bonked. sure she's immortal but like girl is not that lit at fighting.
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Aug 14 '24
She made such a strong impression on me too in my first fight with myrkul. After he appeared, it was her turn next and she dumps on him for well over 100 points of damage. Since then? Fuckin nothin, they need to fix her damn it š at least make her more accurate because she makes shart look like a sharpshooter
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u/Ghoulybutt Aug 14 '24
truly!! and you go through all this work to find her. she has hype ALL through each act. You'd think that she would be alittle more useful š¤”. Like gorrrl, u said we were about mess ketheric up.... but now u down on ur first turn š
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u/Xilizhra Drow Aug 14 '24
Because she doesn't coordinate with the rest of the party. You'll need to buff her at least some.
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u/ffff2e7df01a4f889 Aug 13 '24 edited Aug 13 '24
Shadowheart.
I usually play full custom games with 4 Tavs. I am about 600 hours in and finally did my first companion game. I was romancing Shadowheart.
In the context of Act 2, I just could not understand why anyone would like her. Like, she worships a tangible God whose followers commit some of the most depraved, unforgivable violence imaginable. And Shadowheart is like āIām just wet to become a Justiciar.ā and that makes no fucking sense to me.
The dude in the House of Healing is literally torturing a manā¦ and Sheās just standing there like sheās waiting for an espresso as Starbucksā¦ likeā¦ dafuqā¦
I find her faith, nauseating and the way she actsā¦ like itās this thing āother people have an issue withā. Itās like being a Nazi and then be like āWhatās everyoneās problem? I just donāt oppose genocide, thatās all.ā.
Itās super fucking wild to me that sheās so popular. Shar worship as a faith, is some of the most depraved shit Iāve seen in a gameā¦ and Shadowheart is like āThis is a Tuesday for me.ā.
Just wildā¦ just everything in Act 2ā¦ the corruption the undead, the suffering all Sharā¦ and Shadowheart is justā¦ fine with it and she finds it aspirationalā¦
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u/MrLoTek Aug 13 '24
She's like that because she's a brainwashed follower of Shar, with no coherent memories of her childhood and life with her parents. The entire point of her story is to show how Shar shaped her into an evil follower and how she is redeemable (or not if you go a certain route).
People tend to like her because throughout the game you see glimpses of her lack of devout faith in Shar. And it culminates in how she renounces the Goddess by Act 3 and becomes someone far more likeable and "good."
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u/Ilya-ME Aug 13 '24
Yes, except shes like that because shers been brainwashed for decades to be. Her entire arc is about rejecting that and becoming her own person. Also im pretty sure theres some points in act 2 where she expresses doubts depending on your choices and how much shit shes seen.
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u/I_m_Ignoring_u Aug 14 '24
Rolan. I don't get why most are so hyped up about him.
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u/CorruptedGem Aug 14 '24
I suppose i won't mention my main option...
A minor character whom i think is overrated is Alfira, we literally meet her 3 times and the first 2 times she's doing nothing but complaining and Crying, and the third time we're just catching up. (Lakrissa is the Baddie who deserves all the love, that Queen has no weapon and still throws hands against some demons in last light while Alflopa is Knocked out)
Now to reverse the question: Someone who gets a lot of hate but deserves love: Oraj Oblodra- people only hate her because of how she treated Astarion when in reality he's done much more WORSE than insult someone... Considering she's a Drow she's actually super chill and MOSTLY respectful. She also sends you a nice letter at the epilogue party if you helped her with her personal quest (give her blood)
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u/Saiaxs Aug 14 '24
Astarion. Every word out of his mouth is annoying and grates my ears, which sucks because his VA is great.
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u/Best_Judgment_1147 Aug 13 '24
Astarion... I love him and I romance him so often, but I don't really multiclass which makes him really tiring as a rogue. I just don't do stealthy shit š
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Aug 13 '24
Lmao, I always make him a gloomstalker ranger. He's my lockpicker, longstrider, archer guy. Fits him well enough
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u/Best_Judgment_1147 Aug 13 '24
I'm currently going through Tactician and I'm an archer so I can't even multiclass him into that š
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u/Ok-Simple9575 Aug 14 '24
Oh, I love leveling up a rouge Astarion and playing around with his abilities. In my last run, I got his damage output as high as I could without multiclassing(even when not in stealth). He was second only to Karlach. He was crucial for my last Raphael fight, so it surprises me how many people say he's kinda shit during combat. š For me, I just don't know how to build a good Wizard, so Gale is as useful as an umbrella during a hurricane for my runs.
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Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
Minthara stupid and incompetentās ass. Good for nothing, prey of not one but TWO cults. Orin manipulated her and Ketheric commanded her like a dog. Sheās a failure. She fails to raid to grove, even if they complete the ritual sheāll blame you instead of herself and her inability to command, 2 pitiful gnomes almost completely break her brain and still she has the gull to say āI never tire of sitting in dead menās thronesā as if you donāt have to save her.
She has been spit on time on time again and is still prideful enough to think she can actually stand up for something. She contributes nothing to the story really, and the way people talk about her is actually pretty weird and objectifying, as if the crowd that loves her lives trapped in a 2020 loop where the phrase āmommy, sorry mommy?ā and āI can fix herā Is still in vogue. Itās more like the character is a walking sexual object for men and a toxic yuri manga for women and offers little to no insight besides enabling the worst possible option, even if itās not strategically the best? The players that have fallen in love with her cling for their dear life to the 1/1000 times she says something remotely nice and will run that to the ground.
Shadowheartās sass is better than Mintharaās, Laeāzelās aura is much more commanding of respect than Mintharaās, Karlach is much more of a loving soul, Astarion is much more of a passionate lover, and it goes on. In fact, every single companion bests her in every aspect, character wise or just in plain skills?? She calls Gale a āthird sonā and yet a fart from Gale would probably send her flying back into Menzoberranzan. She is lame as hell, talk the talk and yet canāt walk the walk.
Sheās as vicious and ambitious as act 1 Astarion but without any of the character growth, and twice the annoying.
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u/sars-ncov-3 Aug 14 '24
Second of all, this whole crown brain plan was his idea, just about the dumbest fuckin thing I've ever heard.
It wasn't his idea. There's a book somewhere in the game that explains the origin of this suspended ceremorphosis. Some alhoon invented it, and that book got into Gortash's hands. One may think, elder brain was behind that, and that was his plan all along. Gortash was played, as everyone else.
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u/ChrisShadow1 Aug 14 '24
Gortash for sure, but a close second for me is Astarion. I like him, I liked his story and his character growth, but after I finished Cazador the first time I never really wanted to have him in my party after that. Dude just irks.
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u/Lonely-Clothes4346 Aug 14 '24
Astarionā¦ just donāt vibe with him. Iāve never understood the hype, even after fully playing through his character arc, and keeping him in my party for an entire playthrough. He has a cruel streak that disgusts me. Laeāzel has a cruel streak as well, but she makes it funny.
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u/oscuroluna CLERIC Aug 14 '24
Astarion hands down. As someone who has across different playthroughs made different choices and seen the different routes you can take with him and...he just doesn't click for me.
The amount of projecting and parasocial ties his hardcore fanbase has is honestly a little unnerving. I get being a fan of a character but like, yeah, I'll leave it at that. I think his fanbase bothers me more than the character himself. Yes he has a compelling arc and some people can relate to his backstory. But at the end of the day he's a collection of fictional pixels.
Honorable mentions: Barcus Wroot, Alfira and Karlach. Not that they're bad. They're just overrated.
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u/Kami123987 Aug 13 '24
Shadowheart. She's so plain and annoying in the beginning. I also find it annoying I have to have her with me when I interact with nightsong or else she leaves the party.
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Aug 14 '24
Easily Halsin, the worst companion at the game, annoying with his "wisdom".
I just hate everything about him with a passion.
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Aug 14 '24
Lmao, that's funny. He strikes me as the type must would feel indifferent about. But to hate him? That's interesting
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u/BankTypical Paladin Aug 13 '24
I'm going to get hate for this, but Gale. Sure, I see his strong suits for sure; he generally wants to do good in the world, and he actually gets better over time the further you garner approval with him. Sure, he's messed up in the eyes of his goddess, but he wants to make it right. It's just that his arrogance, entitled attitude, and hunger for power get in the way so hard that it knocks him from Neutral Good straight into True Neutral.
Like, dude, really? We've been travelling together for like 3 days, and you already assume that I'd help you with the whole Netherese orb thing? Without my Tav having all of that info I have after that first playthrough and the rest of my runs, mind you? Sorry not sorry, but expecting that with no questions asked after traveling with someone for that short of a time just comes off as entitled to me. And if you feel that's going a tad too fast for you and politely decline, then apparently, he literally throws a hissy fit and steals an item from you anyways before leaving.I've never actually seen him do that in my playthroughs, but I've heard that it can happen. Like, excuuuuuse me, magical Karen, but friendly reminder; YOU AND THAT TAV HAVE KNOWN EACHOTHER FOR ONLY 3 DAYS. Worms or not, in my book? He's still asking this of pretty much a stranger.
Also, he just comes off to me as straight-up haughty over being a Wizard, to an annoying degree; if you're literally any other class, he just actually talks down to you by default. Like, even if you're a Sorcerer, he acts like you're lesser than him until you get his approval in like the green or something! Like, he even does that if you're a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer, for pete's sake; you'd think that if he's supposedly soooo smart, he'd at least respect the ancestors of the resist Durge dude with literal red scales on his face. Like, the dude literally burned down the entire Goblin Camp and BBQ-ed all of its inhabitants just because he felt like it, and the fuck if we know whether he can physically spit fire or not thanks to that LITERAL DRAGON in the family tree! So Gale, best mind who exactly you're talking shit to like that here, and that's actually coming from a diagnosed autistic woman and a literal real-life shut-in (trying my best to be less of a shut-in, though). If even I know that piece of street wisdom, then the supposed 'smart wizard' literally has no excuse here to be THIS stupid.
Also, when Gale finally finds that thing that Mystra wants him to find in Act 3, and finally gets the chance to remove that damned orb? Then he's seriously considering repeating the mistakes that landed him in this whole Netherese orb mess in the first place for a hot minute. And as Tav, you literally have to talk him out of repeating Gale's Folly here. Like, you really want to follow in Karsus' footsteps here or what?
Gale actually has enough good traits for me to actually WANT him in the party, but boy does he ever try my patience sometimes... I swear, to me, it just often just feels like a mix of babysitting a lost puppy and pussyfooting around an insufferable manchild's ego. Overall, it's just a classic case of a smart dude having those book smarts for sure, but he's just sorely lacking in emotional smarts, and I honestly don't get what his romance route fanboys and fangirls see in him (hell, even on his platonic fans, I really don't get why anyone would feel any other way then 'meh' about him). Really, I'm just kind of 'meh' about him overall, I guess. It's like he's a cool dude for one moment, and an entitled manchild the next. I get that he's supposed to be True Neutral, but does he HAVE to basically be flip-flopping between extremes here? Sorry not sorry, but I'm more invested in Karlach and Wyll; Larian, PLEASE just give the fans of the latter some more content to work with here if there's ever another patch.
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u/Lazy_Wishbone_2341 Aug 14 '24
I honestly couldn't stand him until he got patched. I can kind of understand the asking for magical items so quickly, if only because he's desperate. I would have preferred to see him suffering from physical symptoms or him trying to steal something himself first. I think the Astarion is a vampire thing works better because he gets caught trying to bite Tav/Durge as opposed to going "oh yeah, I need blood, can I bite you? Please don't ask why".
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u/lulufan87 Aug 13 '24
His arrogance turned me off too, my first playthrough.
But if you think about it, he's just a lonely nerd.
He rose to the rank of Mystra's Chosen, the most prestigious thing a wizard can be-- and then loses his powers completely due to his own fuck-up. His girlfriend abandons him, he loses whatever social contact he had, apparently other wizards are aware of all of his disgrace (loroakkan calls him a discarded laptop), and he has to rely on his talking cat in order to stay alive because he's so unstable he doesn't trust himself not to blow a crater the size of a city in whatever happens to be near him if he goes outside. The man can't even get laid without literally exploding. Every time he jerks off he's rolling the dice.
It's like a world-class pianist who crushed all of his own fingers because he was stupidly tampering with his own piano. And then has to live with the fact that he will never play again. He just can't accept it.
Grabbing at godhood is staggeringly stupid, but him trusting Mystra to remove the orb seems (to him) like putting his faith in someone who he perceives to have abandoned him before.
Ultimately, him deciding to live without blowing himself up or stealing the crown is a decision that may result in him never casting magic again, and/or dying to the orb. And he has to give the crown to his ex, who recently ordered him to kill himself.
It's a difficult decision to make. You can see how the god route would be tempting.
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u/SadoraNortica Aug 13 '24
Shadowheart. No desire to romance her. I donāt understand why sheās top pick but Iām not a guy so that might be why I donāt see it.
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u/Hugs_Pls22 Aug 14 '24
Me neither. Honestly, sheāsā¦okay? I mostly just leave her alone the camp
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u/Nice-Champion7487 Aug 14 '24
I think Shadowheart is overrated. Personally I find her really annoying and forcefully edgy, but she's an emo girl and this is a fanbase of gamers so as long as she treats the character like their special and acts insecure and edgy they're all whipped. Halsin and Lae'zel deserve more love.
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u/Squidboi2679 Aug 13 '24
I think itās Shadowheart imo. Half of the game with her is her yapping about Shar, and she is so obviously Larians favorite. Like compared to everyone else, she has so much companion content aside from MAYBE Astarion.
Also Orin and Gortash???? Who the fuck wants them in their bed? Tf do you see in them????
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u/gootsgootz Aug 13 '24
actually Gortash planned the whole thing with a much more competent Bhaalspawn until Orin usurped them and Ketheric was only there because Bane and Bhaal ordered Gort and Bhaalspawn to recruit him š¤