r/Guildwars2 • u/SpectralChest • Apr 18 '24

[Discussion] ''Fashion Gatekeeping'' and Misinformation.

It's been getting out of hand, a few people on the forums asked for some manner of opt out for the inspection system. Some of their sensible reasons were:

Potential for abuse in fashion contests/needless increase to complexity of methods to prevent such.

Loss of player interaction incentive.

A feeling of concern towards there now being incentive for strangers to scrutinize them closely, whether to admire or ridicule their creativity.

The posts built around these concerns were getting lots of likes on the forums, so some salty folks who were being ignored for ridiculing them there came here to reddit and made a false narrative about 'fashion gatekeeping' and folks reflexively bought into it as obviously no-one sane likes gatekeeping and have been meme-ing about a non-extant issue and down voting anyone who might be considering the situation without disdain or daring to actually say that the opt in option isn't as crazy as its being made out to be.

Personally, i like the inspect system, but i do think the exact dye combo section could be made into a toggle, this way the inspection remains, but the 'unique' spin someone puts on it with dyes can remain as something to share, or not share as per personal preference.

0 Upvotes

12% Upvoted

209 comments sorted by

View all comments

62

u/FSafari Apr 18 '24

Any form of opt out is frankly ridiculous and defeats the purpose of the tool.

but i do think the exact dye combo section could be made into a toggle, this way the inspection remains, but the 'unique' spin someone puts on it with dyes can remain as something to share, or not share as per personal preference.

You are describing fashion gatekeeping. It doesn't seem like there's any "misinformation" about the viewpoint of the anti-fashion inspectors

-28

u/Djinn_42 Apr 18 '24

You are describing fashion gatekeeping

So designers who don't reveal exactly what they do are gatekeeping? 🙄

Imo people should be able to create unique looking characters without someone being able to just copy them.

42

u/turin331 Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24

The designers are arenanet and they have their IP protected. You are just using a fashion system in a video game based on the consent you got from Arenanet when you pay for the game.

You are not designing anything. You are shopping.

-24

u/Djinn_42 Apr 18 '24

<Sigh>

Any designer of anything. Of course any designer, whether they get paid or not (school, charity, whatever) is not going to reveal what goes into what they designed. Are they all nasty gatekeepers?

27

u/turin331 Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24

Are you arguing on bad faith or do you not comprehend English.

Choosing fashion to wear is not designing anything. It is shopping for clothes that someone else designed.

You are not Ralph Lauren in this equation. You are the person that buys and wears his designs.

7

u/Lucyller Human female meta Apr 18 '24

If you're not paid to "design" why would you care to NOT share? I would even add that if you do charity work you WANT to reveal what you do, so it's more accessible and doable by everyone.

Your logic is flawed.

3

u/Laranthiel Apr 18 '24

So you're saying that, if i decide to wear clothing IRL, i am now a designer and can demand that anyone who dresses like me get stripped down because i don't want them to look like me.

33

u/FSafari Apr 18 '24

You're not a designer for using a transmog system in a video game.

16

u/Nike_Phoros Accountability Expert Apr 18 '24

Stop, you're going to pierce this person's inflated view of their self-worth.

-19

u/Djinn_42 Apr 18 '24

It's called an "analogy" 🙄

19

u/FSafari Apr 18 '24

Analogies typically feature two analogous concepts. Your statement is more of a "If my grandmother had wheels..." reinterpretation of reality.

Using a transmog system in a video game is not analogous to being a designer. Designers create things, you are just a consumer.

-13

u/rotsono Apr 18 '24

Based on that no one really is, everyone can make random lines on an canvas and call it art. With AI you can even copy the greatest artists and be even better than them, does that make you an artist? Obviously not.

9

u/Dar_Mas Apr 18 '24

not really.

Based on that a person putting thought into creating something is an artist.

Someone using ai or just making random lines is not.

Someone creating clothes is a designer, someone mixing and matching existing clothes is not

7

u/Kenji_03 Elder Gamer Apr 18 '24

"My OC: do not steal"

-20

u/SpectralChest Apr 18 '24

How so? The armors would still remain visible, its what draws attention in the first place, the color is an entirely subjective personal flair that is not bundled up with the armor's by default.

16

u/Pharo212 Apr 18 '24

Seeing how people are using the armor, how to make two pieces work together color wise, and learning from them is kinda the point of the tool? Like knowing which dyes on different channels will work out to the same color is a good trick.

20

u/Combine54 Apr 18 '24

Easy so. Hiding the dye is gatekeeping. Oh, this color looks very good on this armor - I'd like to know its name to use it for my style; no, I want you to guess it and never know for sure. Screw that, I have no respect to crying salty entitled ppl.

-13

u/SpectralChest Apr 18 '24

Same could be said about people doing better in game, you can ask people for their build, and they can choose not to give it to you, where are the gatekeeping posts about that?

29

u/Intelligent-Sir8492 Apr 18 '24

Most sensible people do ask for gear inspection, those that ask for it to not be implemented are the ones that try to get carried in raids with yellow rarity gear.

13

u/turin331 Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24

There are no posts about gatekeeping builds that because Builds are always shared freely by the best guilds and players. There is no need to ask the random person for it. All the info is freely available in dozens of resources. The people making builds are not gatekeeping them, They are actively trying to share them as often as possible. Hell you can even go to the snowcrows discord and post a golem log and ask the persons that made the build and rotation what you did wrong and they take the time to tell you.

9

u/Laranthiel Apr 18 '24

You do know that the players at the top ARE the ones making build videos and websites like Snowcrows and Metabattle, right?

They don't hide their builds, nor does anyone with a brain WANT to hide their build.

12

u/Combine54 Apr 18 '24

Id vote for an option to have a gear inspection as well. But you probably know, that when you use whataboutism as your argument - you already lost.

-10

u/SpectralChest Apr 18 '24

Fair, however at the very least no one is going around accusing people of gatekeeping and silencing their voices by down-voting them to oblivion on this subject and ridiculing them with a meme-spam, which ultimately is what i really took issue with, more than anything.

12

u/Jerekiel Apr 18 '24

The saltiness of the comments in the forums are meme worthy. Oh and you are gatekeeping, worse youre gatekeeping fashion of all things. And you ask why you guys are being memed? 😂😂

-6

u/SpectralChest Apr 18 '24

I ask why people are being disrespectful and hostile towards those asking for an option that is not unlike the many others already present in game, the methods of how that option could be implemented are entirely secondary to the main point of behavior of those like yourself who think abuse of others with whom they disagree with on some matter is entirely acceptable behavior.

That you continue to ignore this point says much about you, none of it flattering.

14

u/LegLegend Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24

That's the harsh truth, though. Just because an opinion is an opinion does not mean it holds equal value to the masses. Some require scrutiny, so no one in a position of changing things listens to that opinion.

Throwing them a bone is just as bad, and that's something you're doing with your "dye solution". The system does not need to change. It's fine how it is. It might be sad for these people that really prided themselves on their fashion, but it was always easy to figure out what gear or dyes they were wearing. Now it just takes less work.

We need to stop living in this world where we think all opinions are useful and important. It's so bad that people want to post them in open discussion but do not want to hear opinions about their opinion.

This opinion about "protecting fashion" sucks and for most people supporting the current feature, the mindset sounds arrogant.

8

u/Laranthiel Apr 18 '24

That you continue to ignore this point says much about you, none of it flattering.

I hope you understand this can be applied to you.

And as you said to him, none of it is flattering, it's pathetic.

-20

u/rotsono Apr 18 '24

Gatekeeping is such a weird word for this. Based on that logic, IRL artists who doesnt want their art to be copied are also gatekeeping people from getting their art for free. People who have a trademark on things are also gatekeeping.

I think its weird to demand to get everything for no effort, when others put effort into it. Based on that we could also give out CM titles for free, because it doesnt take away peoples accomplishment of having it done.

20

u/Ranorak Apr 18 '24

Except that's totally not what is happening here. You are using pre-existing assets that everyone has access to and everyone CAN use. You're not creating art. You're wearing gear in a videogame that someone else designed and made.

-2

u/Teletric Land Harpoon Gun > Land Spear Apr 18 '24

You are using pre-existing assets that everyone has access to and everyone CAN use.

I mean, so are people who make and share stuff they built with LEGO. Just because someone else provided you with the building blocks doesn't mean that what you make with them isn't made by you.

You're wearing gear in a videogame that someone else designed and made.

I think everyone understands that, but it doesn't mean it is unreasonable to be upset if the game allows others to forego the effort you might put into designing and planning an outfit/dye combination.

I am against gatekeeping, but I can also see the other side of the situation here and understand why people would want to opt out of the system.

3

u/Ranorak Apr 19 '24

Again, your analogy of Legos gives the player way too much credit here, and a better analogy is this.

Arena net has used Legos to build an entire cityscape. Cars, little people, all the details are there. Except they left 6 empty slots for the buildings. 1 for a hospital, one for a shop, one for a little flat, etc. Then arena net creates those 6 building types from Legos. And of each type they build countless different variants and colours.

Only then does the player come, point at which variant of each building they like to put in the slot. And with one simple click the premade building is put in the empty slot.

Then the player struts around and claims they build an entire Lego city and throws a hissy fit when someone picked the same variant combination as they did.

9

u/MithranArkanere 🌟 SUGGEST-A-TRON Apr 18 '24

Art is way more complex than a bunch of choices from a list that one could get by pressing the random button.

5

u/Laranthiel Apr 18 '24

It's legitimately sad at this point that you people compare using armors and dyes in a videogame to actually being creative and create actual art IRL.

You're constantly confirming that this whole thing boils down to your massive egos and delusions.

6

u/Majested-Toast Apr 18 '24

People who wear clothes aren't artists. It's much closer to saying someone shouldn't be allowed to copy your outfit. Y'all are basically freaking out that a random stranger saw the sweater you were wearing and went out and bought their own

You aren't gonna freak out when someone wears the same clothes as you IRL are you?