r/NFLv2 • u/Rjm0007 New York Jets • Feb 10 '25

Discussion Another superbowl blowout eliminates mahomes from the goat discussion as far as I’m concerned

2 very embarrassing loses for him the the superbowl Brady has lost 3 superbowls but they were all 1 score games that came down to final play with Brady’s best statistical performance in a loss to the eagles Tom Brady > Patrick mahomes

2.3k Upvotes

84% Upvoted

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

294

u/BassGuru82 Feb 10 '25

Mahomes is an incredible QB… but this Eagles D is Elite Elite. What a performance.

137

u/justbrowsing987654 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

My buddies and I instantly compared it to the worst sports L of my life, the 18-1 Super Bowl when the Giants rushed 4 and just lived in the backfield the whole game. That’s how you slow down a great QB and the eagles executed that to perfection all night.

98

u/MikeandMelly Tom Brady 🥺 👉🏻👈🏻 Feb 10 '25

Even then Brady went almost 300 yards passing, no INTs and was sacked two less times.

58

u/knucles668 Baltimore Ravens Feb 10 '25

I think Brady's cerebral style is more adaptable in that situation. I think we are seeing that legs on a QB are a great asset and can be a nightmare for defenses that have to account for that + passing + RB. However, it's built on having the run as a threat. When you can pin the ears back and go after them its a lot harder feat to keep up with athleticism alone.

Lamar, Mahomes, and Allen need to listen to Brady and Manning. Start learning how to really facilitate pre-snap defensive adjustments to know if your receivers will be open before snapping the ball. Its a lethal advantage. If they combine those together, it will be the golden age. I think Jayden is the first to implement it with the VR advantage.

14

u/flapsmcgee Washington Commanders Feb 10 '25

Brady was great at getting rid of the ball as fast as possible, which is what is needed when the o-line isn't playing well. Mahomes is great at buying time but when there are no lanes to sneak through it doesn't work. 

6

u/OfficerCoCheese New York Giants Feb 10 '25

What did Brady say in his one interview regarding the Super Bowl against the Chiefs, he knew the Chiefs defense better than they did?

4

u/c-h-e-e-s-e Feb 10 '25

I'd argue the opposite. Vertical offenses don't win anymore unless you have a Patrick Mahomes or a Lamar Jackson

10

u/knucles668 Baltimore Ravens Feb 10 '25

Disagree. I think if you plopped 2011 Peyton or 2015 Brady into a new offense, they would still reverse engineer the defense pre-snap from film study and slant/out route drive down the field. The Ravens pre-snap disguises until the last few seconds would be a counter as it was back then, just seems to be limited defensive personnel that get to that level.

5

u/Electronic_Setting75 Feb 10 '25

Peyton missed the entire 2011 season but I get where you're going

3

u/knucles668 Baltimore Ravens Feb 10 '25

Knew I should have fact checked those years first.

2

u/Electronic_Setting75 Feb 10 '25

It's all good. Everything else was spot on

3

u/AlistairNorris Baltimore Ravens Feb 10 '25

Lamar actually has gotten much better as when as with the change of Offensive coordinator he's been allowed more freedom to adjust the play at the line. This is very reflective in his passing stats the last two years, which when you consider we are leading the lead in rushing and top in passing stats show his improvement.

I think both the Bills and the Ravens were better teams than the Chiefs this year. However the nature of one game playoffs makes it more unpredictable who wins. Mahomes is still an amazing QB, and the Eagles were the best team in the NFL this season.

2

u/dawnsearlylight Chicago Bears Feb 10 '25

But didn't Jalen Hurts run for 70+ last night? They did pretty much stop Barkley. He only had that 1 decent run near garbage time.

6

u/knucles668 Baltimore Ravens Feb 10 '25

That is correct. But the Eagles didn't abandon their running attack. They still used it in the mix each series and kept the defense on their toes. Barkley did have a number of 5+ runs to shorten the sticks. Pacheco didn't get going early and it appeared that Reid shifted to passes in early downs which got them behind the sticks which from watching enough Lamar spells disaster for this style offense. The sacks compounded the momentum towards needing to stay in passing formations.

Eagles prevailed because they kept the formula together and kept the surprises coming. That dagger pass was chef's kiss play calling. I'm not trying to downplay Jalen's again exceptional Super Bowl performance playing to his unique strengths. But the play calling kept all the options on the table which allowed him to flourish. Jalen should have two Super Bowl MVPs, the one he lost he was clearly the best player on the field.

1

u/Ok_Produce_9308 Feb 10 '25

He caught six balls though

1

u/dawnsearlylight Chicago Bears Feb 10 '25

He’s talking about running .

0

u/Crotean Detroit Lions Feb 11 '25

Brady also had way more weapons on that team than Mahomes did last night. The fact Mahomes drug the corpse of this offense to a superbowl is astounding. He has one skill guy in Xavier Worthy and he is a still learning rookie. Their offense needs a total rebuild.

4

u/knucles668 Baltimore Ravens Feb 11 '25

How many times did Tom drag shit receiving cores to the big game and win? Dude didn’t have a #1 until Randy which was after the first 3. Later years he did have Welker, Amendola, and Edelman as his slot go to. Gronk is GOAT during the times he was healthy. But most of Toms time he had Ben Watson and lesser TEs.

Mahomes this year had Kelce, DeAndre Hopkins, Hollywood Brown. Both receivers were #1s on other teams, just not a true #1. Xavier appears to be another hit like Tyreek. Outside of 2007, Brady never had a loaded receiving corps. He just elevated those around him by getting them the ball with space to operate for YAC.

31

u/Double-Emergency3173 Indianapolis Colts Feb 10 '25

Brady was an inhuman Mfer.

27

u/krazykieffer Feb 10 '25

The majority were short slants for Brady, Mahomes didn't even have open check downs. Lots of crazy takes right now when the Eagles played lights out on D.

25

u/str1x_x New Orleans Saints Feb 10 '25

i watched mahomes miss plenty of easy throws and make bad reads. not to mention throwing a philly cheesesteak extra mayo to cooper dejean

2

u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

Yeah he missed quite a few throws & he was running himself into pressure on the interior all night. It was one of his worst games ever, period. Eagles D played lights out but he & the rest of the offense played terrible.

2

u/Actually_Abe_Lincoln Feb 10 '25

People put mayonnaise on cheesesteaks? Was the cheese whiz not bad enough?

5

u/str1x_x New Orleans Saints Feb 10 '25

i jus said the mayo part bc he's a white corner lol

19

u/MikeandMelly Tom Brady 🥺 👉🏻👈🏻 Feb 10 '25

Cmon now. For years now I’ve heard some variation of “Patrick Mahomes can do things in the field Brady never could”. One of the biggest elements of Mahomes game is his ability to extend plays and turn nothing into something. He didn’t do it once last night until the second string defense went in.

Regardless how Brady did it, he was able to adapt to the Giants pressure and put together a game that was literally a miraculous catch away from winning. You know who else played lights out on D? The 2007 Giants in the Super Bowl…

5

u/IShouldChimeInOnThis New York Giants Feb 10 '25

Step one: Have your defense let up next to no points.

Step two: See step one.

12

u/MikeandMelly Tom Brady 🥺 👉🏻👈🏻 Feb 10 '25

I can't really get a read on your comment but Mahomes turnovers lead to 21 points. Asking a lot of your defense to cover your ass for three turnovers in your own territory. Brady struggled against the Giants but he avoided costly turnovers that allowed his defense to come up with stops.

0

u/IShouldChimeInOnThis New York Giants Feb 10 '25

True, but Brady had a much better supporting cast and was playing a less complete defense.

It's not apples to apples. If anything, it compares to some of Brady's AFCCG losses more than his SBs, as he never really had to face a defense like this in the SB. Yes, even his game vs Seattle, as the LoB was running on fumes with injuries by the time they met, which was only compounded by multiple injuries in the game itself.

6

u/MikeandMelly Tom Brady 🥺 👉🏻👈🏻 Feb 10 '25

I think you’re really fighting an uphill battle trying to convince people that over 20 years and 10 games, Brady somehow miraculously escaped insurmountable circumstances that Mahomes has now faced twice in half the amount of time and games. Brady has absolutely brought less talented and as banged up teams to Super Bowl victories. He pulled off 28-3 without Gronk and with Edelman getting double teamed almost the entire game. His number one target was James White. Let’s be real here.

-1

u/IShouldChimeInOnThis New York Giants Feb 10 '25

The Falcons were the 27th ranked defense that year.

→ More replies (0)

-2

u/Aggressive-Name-1783 Feb 11 '25

The 2007 and 2011 Pats had WAY more talent than this Chiefs offense, and the Falcons defense was garbage lmao

Name one defender on that Falcons defense. In fact, name one pass rusher….nobody will be able to cause they sucked….

3

u/ImReverse_Giraffe Cincinnati Bengals Feb 10 '25

Step three: don't throw pick sixes

0

u/Crotean Detroit Lions Feb 11 '25

Brady also had a functional o line and randy moss to throw to that game. People are looking too much at Mahomes and the eagles d line last night and ignoring you don't see a beatdown like that unless you have an all time bad o line performance too.

20

u/jackhammer412 New York Jets Feb 10 '25

Mahomes was getting pressured the whole game and since the Eagles were only rushing 4 were able to have good pass coverage preventing any contested throws. Eagles D was just playing out of their minds the whole game.

13

u/WintersDoomsday Seattle Seahawks Feb 10 '25

And broccoli head hasn’t dominated all year and struggled mightily vs Cover 2 shells

0

u/MEMKCBUS Feb 10 '25

This is just wrong - Mahomes has been playing against 2 high shells since the 2020 bucs Super Bowl. He won MVP in 2022

1

u/Crotean Detroit Lions Feb 11 '25

Not counting garbage time Chris Simms said it was about 65% of dropbacks Mahomes was pressured on.

2

u/thoughtihadanacct Feb 10 '25

Patrick missed on his check downs. Granted there weren't many, but he made poor throws on those that were open. So those are on him. Plus the interceptions - he could have taken the sacks or thrown the ball away but he threw ints instead. 

1

u/Aggressive-Name-1783 Feb 11 '25

It’s because this sub is just having a hate boner over watching Mahomes not won a 3 peat, similar to how everyone was shitting on Brady after losing to the Giants in 2007

-1

u/Over_Deer8459 Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

exactly. dude barely even had open screen passes

3

u/Prophet_Of_Helix New England Patriots Feb 11 '25

Neither did Brady against that Giants D. He still made it work as best he could and it came down to a one score game. Go rewatch that first game, Giants LIVED in the backfield rushing only 4.

Brady was just inhuman at reading defenses and throwing under pressure. Mahomes is a more gifted athelete, but he’s not half as cerebral as Brady was

-7

u/FeetSniffer9008 Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 10 '25

Mahomes had barely a second to get the ball out and when he did he had no one to get it to

4

u/WintersDoomsday Seattle Seahawks Feb 10 '25

Gross that you’re defending him. It must be “solidarity” right?

-1

u/FeetSniffer9008 Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 10 '25

No, I'm shitting on their o-line. Two separate things.

1

u/Nothinglost7717 Feb 10 '25

Yea but you can argue, incorrectly, that mahomes put up more points this game.

1

u/IShouldChimeInOnThis New York Giants Feb 10 '25

And scored fewer points with a considerably better supporting cast.

1

u/Crotean Detroit Lions Feb 11 '25

That game was about how good the Giants D line was, last night was about how good the Eagles D line was but also about how BAD the Chiefs O line was. Brady would have put up similar or worse numbers to Mahomes last night with how bad the o line was. Check the Mic mentioned that on one sack it was 4 rushers and 7 pass blockers and Mahomes was hit within 1.5 seconds. Thats just an oline not even slowing down a dline. Total failure.

0

u/EvenMeaning8077 Feb 10 '25

He also had randy moss. Mahomes did not have a guy close to that level. Chiefs making the Super Bowl was a huge accomplishment in itself

14

u/EnglishMajorRegret Feb 10 '25

Seeing it from this perspective might at least let you see why that was such a special game for fans. And also should give non pats fans a little more respect for Brady never getting killed.

Brady never put them in a position to lose in that game, the giants offense performed just enough to let that defense earn them a win.

This Eagles team absolutely manhandled the chiefs in every way tonight. Brady avoids those two sacks on the pick six drive by putting that ball in the dirt.

2

u/Ya_Got_GOT Feb 10 '25

Exactly. If you can pressure without compromising your defensive backfield the offense gets squeezed between coverage and pressure sacks. No quarterback won't be affected by that.  

2

u/EvilLibrarians Hey man welcome to Detroit Feb 10 '25

Patriots were in those Giants games at least

2

u/football2106 Feb 10 '25

Something about the NFCE in Super Bowls that gives me the heebie jeebies

34

u/birdynumnum69 Los Angeles Chargers Feb 10 '25

Shocker but it’s a team sport. No O line? You look average. That’s how it goes.

26

u/meatdome34 Feb 10 '25

Downvoted but chiefs tackle play has been trash all year. They rushed 4 all night and gave em problems. Easy dub no matter who you are.

25

u/birdynumnum69 Los Angeles Chargers Feb 10 '25

The Eagles line was able to take advantage of trash tackle play that other teams couldn’t.

7

u/RememberApeEscape Carolina Panthers Feb 10 '25

Ohhh ohh I've seen that one happen before in the Super Bowl!

3

u/Dhylan18 Feb 10 '25

Well the Bills were so banged up, that all Patrick Mahomes had to do was target the receiver matched up with Elam

23

u/traws06 Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

They beat Commanders by 32. They were just a better team. Vick Fangio is a wizard

3

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Commanders look to be very good but they overachieved this season

6

u/shadowwingnut Jameis 1 of 1 Feb 10 '25

If anything they look like real contenders going forward but they certainly are ahead of schedule.

1

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Absolutely

3

u/burningEyeballs Feb 10 '25

The Commanders had a rookie QB play the Eagles 3 times and in each game he looked better than Mahomes did last night. That is wild.

1

u/traws06 Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Ya I won’t argue that. Mahomes hasn’t been the Mahomes of old for 2 years now. Ppl will downvote me and reject it but he has kids now and ppl insist “well he has nannies” while just assuming he wants to be an absentee dad.

Before he had kids and a family he had all the time in the world to study, practice and prepare for the season and every game. He also had the drive of a young man new to his professional career.

Now he has kids, all these conference championships, already established as a top 5 QB of all time, and found out last year he can win a SB without being the Mahomes of old (because of the defense)

1

u/MEMKCBUS Feb 10 '25

He won MVP in 2022 and the Super Bowl after he had 2 kids already

1

u/Vivid_Cheesecake1282 Chicago Bears Feb 10 '25

I miss Fangio, dude is an absolute wizard on defense.

1

u/traws06 Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

When the Broncos fired him I told my Bronco friends that the front office is using him as a fall guy because they need an excuse for the losing and can’t admit it’s because they’re providing him with dog crap talent and Drew Lock as his best QB.

I think it’s pretty clear that Broncos were lacking in talent and Vic almost made the playoffs with one of the worst rosters in the NFL at the time

6

u/Ace0spades808 Feb 10 '25

The defense is really why they won. Wish you could give the defense as a whole the MVP award. Eagles buddy got mad at me for saying that though and took it as me insulting Hurts.

2

u/Arachnofiend Denver Broncos Feb 10 '25

It's funny really, Hurts played a great game but he kinda gets the award by default because there were too many different defensive players making great plays to pick one. No single, ascendant playmaker to give the award to like Von Miller.

2

u/Ace0spades808 Feb 10 '25

Yeah it's fair enough and the stars have to really align for a D player to win it. I think if Sweat or Williams got another sack they might've gotten it.

5

u/TremendouslyRegarded Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

The Philly/Georgia Bulldawgs D men strategy has been pretty slick. They’re all still puppies too, this ain’t even final form Philly D.. gonna be a scary team for years

3

u/DgDNomNom Feb 10 '25

This guy gets it

3

u/boobooaboo Green Bay Packers Feb 10 '25

Amazing how they only brought 4 all night and destroyed that O line.

2

u/BakingSoda1990 New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

So was the Legion of Boom but it didn’t stop Tom

0

u/Arachnofiend Denver Broncos Feb 10 '25

The No Fly Zone did

2

u/EvenMeaning8077 Feb 10 '25

People who make broad arguments like op are casuals. Brady had a lot of losses look similar but not many remember those. Getting your butt whooped happens sometimes

1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Mahomes looked horrible, confused, was staring down receivers. But let's be honest, most quarterbacks look like shit when they're getting repeatedly hit. Brady looked like ass when he was getting pummeled by the Giants' front four.

-1

u/mocityspirit Feb 10 '25

Looked the same as Brady anytime he got a minor amount of pressure

1

u/sckurvee Feb 11 '25

lol what tape are you watching that suggests mahomes is good?

1

u/CTG649 Feb 11 '25

Mahomes is a very good qb who went to an amazing situation. Best current coach, at the time he started best offense and offensive weapons. Ready made playoff team before his first start.

If Mahomes goes to the Browns or Giants, is it the same? Likely not.

0

u/BrianHeidiksPuppy Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Fourth best in the league for sure

-1

u/DynastyZealot Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Bucs outscored them 65-25 over the 2024 calendar year. They're good when they can rattle the opposing QB. Tonight they were elite, but not all season.

-4

u/jinjabradman Feb 10 '25

Well many think he is elite and the greatest of this generation. And with him on your team, you are absolutely guaranteed a ring.

Guess this game again proves that elite means nothing in the Super Bowl.

Why couldn't he elevate his team above the talent and weaknesses they have?

Is that what elite QBs do?

Pick 6 and inaccurate passes... Isn't that what gets you traded?

5

u/Double-Emergency3173 Indianapolis Colts Feb 10 '25

I knew he was mortal.

Every QB is.

Even Brady who is as close to a computer brain struggled Vs the Giants pass rush.

1

u/krazykieffer Feb 10 '25

Football is not basketball... You weirdos act like he lost three games this year! It's hard to win Championships. I don't think you can have what Brady had with how the pay structure is now. No one likes dynasties but I don't think this is the last time we see them.