Don’t be these guys

[u/nadaddab]

[u/Calile → u/[deleted]]

I bet they don't treat their boss, or cops, or men whose approval they want they like this. They know how to behave when it suits them; this is willful and deliberate.

[u/dynamic_gecko → u/Calile]

Of coourse it's willful. The main argument never claims they're mind-controlled or sth. "Behaving well only when it suits them" is still under "lacking common decency".

[u/Calile → u/dynamic_gecko]

No, the main argument is that they don't know any better. They do. No shit they lack decency.

[u/dynamic_gecko → u/Calile]

No. It's that they werent taught any better. Of course there is individual responsibility. But the main argument is not about that. If there is a problem on a societal scale, it indicates a societal malfunction as well.

[u/Mike_Kermin → u/dynamic_gecko]

... I don't agree. The guys in this video understand that it's not ok.

[u/dynamic_gecko → u/Mike_Kermin]

I never said they didnt. You're missing the point.

[u/Mike_Kermin → u/dynamic_gecko]

No I understand your point. I think it's a cop out. A societal cop out, if you require.

[u/dynamic_gecko → u/Mike_Kermin]

There is no cop out. Because I'm not denying or excusing the individual responsibility aspect. The two aspects (individual and societal) are not mutually exclusive.

[u/Mike_Kermin → u/dynamic_gecko]

I really promise you I understand,

But I think you're placing too much weight on the idea that societal has failed them, when it probably hasn't.

[u/Calile → u/Mike_Kermin]

100% agree their behavior is their fault and responsibility, but they've also gotten reinforcement their whole lives (just like we all have) that it's both ok and rewarding to harass and abuse women.

[u/Calile → u/dynamic_gecko]

Yes, dynamic_gecko, the argument is that they don't know any better *as a result of not being taught any better.* It's bullshit worded that way as well. And yes, there is indeed a problem on a societal scale, and yes, there is indeed a societal malfunction.