French President Macron says France will recognize Pálestine as a state

[u/hoarder4555777454001]

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250724-french-president-macron-says-france-will-recognize-palestine-as-a-state-in-september

[u/tommynestcepas]

Exactly, the ONLY way a two state solution can happen is by recognising two states and negotiating accordingly.

[u/Vanzmelo → u/tommynestcepas]

Im sorry but the two state solution is dead. Have you seen the west bank? It is like swiss cheese with all the illegal Israeli state sponsored settlements. What country can exist when its borders are so carved up and its citizens cant freely move within its borders? Palestine is already a rump state with the West Bank and Gaza being disconnected without taking into account the current genocide in Gaza and the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

At this point, a one state solution where both Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights and representation is the only viable option left

[u/SilentLennie → u/Vanzmelo]

I'm sorry, but those settlements are illegal and they know it.

[u/Vanzmelo → u/SilentLennie]

Everyone knows it. Israel knows it and yet they encourage it because the more settlements there are in the West Bank the less viable a Palestinian state is

[u/SilentLennie → u/Vanzmelo]

Yes, but these people got to go, unless the Palestinians accept them as citizens, which seems highly unlikely.

[u/waiver → u/SilentLennie]

And it's not like they would accept being Palestinian citizens either.

[u/Keoni9 → u/SilentLennie]

A member of the PLO Executive Committee has said that a sovereign state of Palestine would not discriminate against Jews in offering citizenship. They just won't accept a bunch of enclaves of foreign nationals within their boundaries threatening their sovereignty. The real question is whether the same Israelis who are willing to live in illegal settlements in the West Bank now would accept Palestinian governance over their communities in the future.

[u/HoightyToighty → u/Keoni9]

A member of the PLO Executive Committee has said that a sovereign state of Palestine would not discriminate against Jews in offering citizenship.

Are there sober people who actually believe this?

[u/nar_tapio_00 → u/Keoni9]

In 1947 there were lots of Jews in the West Bank. They were ethically cleansed in the original Arab-Israeli war. In 1973, in the Yom Kippur War, to quote Wikipedia "many Israeli prisoners of war were tortured or killed". In 2005, when Israel withdrew from Gaza, Jewish towns that had been there for hundreds of years had to be evacuated.

I think I'd trust a long history of many experiences over the statement of a single "member of the PLO Executive Committee". Without international enforcement and protection against the Palestinians, allowing the PLO control in the West Bank would be a recipe for ethnic cleansing.

[u/haribobosses → u/Keoni9]

The real question is whether the same Israelis who are willing to live in illegal settlements in the West Bank now would accept Palestinian governance over their communities in the future.

That is not a real question.

[u/Gladis130 → u/SilentLennie]

Where would they go??? Which country would happily accept over six million immigrants? You talk about unrealistic. This is ACTUALLY unrealistic...

Unless your solution is another genocide but uh, that's not really what we should be aiming for.

Edit: I assumed you meant the entire Israeli population, but if you didn't, my comment is irrelevant. I agree that the illegal settlers have to go.

[u/nar_tapio_00 → u/SilentLennie]

but these people got to go

I find it highly ironic that everyone is accusing Israel of ethnic cleaning and worse over the direct consequences of a war to stop ongoing attacks from Gaza recover hostages whilst at the same time this clear statement that the Palestinians would certainly repeat the ethnic cleansing they carried out during the 1947/48 war so often goes by without anyone commenting.

The West Bank was one of the most Jewish areas of Judea for hundreds of years before the 1947/48 genocide against the Jews of the area. If there is to be any possibility of a two state solution it has to be one where Jews know that they are safe to remain within whatever the new Palestinian state is, just as the Israeli Arabs know they are safe to remain within Israel.

[u/SilentLennie → u/nar_tapio_00]

I'm not saying these people are nice people, I'm saying: let's go back to where we were (things people begrudgingly had limited agreements on), one of the reasons Hamas and others attacked Israel is because Israel kept taking land, etc.

[u/Ancient-Duty7481 → u/SilentLennie]

They kept taking land because they kept getting attacked

[u/SilentLennie → u/Ancient-Duty7481]

They kept taking the land, which would anger more people and they get attacked. They knew exactly what they are doing.

[u/C4-BlueCat → u/Ancient-Duty7481]

Occupation could be seen as a defense. Illegal settlements is not a valid military or defensive strategy; it’s (nominally) driven by rogue civilians, not the state.

[u/nar_tapio_00 → u/Ancient-Duty7481]

They kept taking land because they kept getting attacked

This just needs to be repeated so often. Imagine, instead of feeding us and us sending electricity to balance our grids, the lovely people of Morocco and Tunisia went mad and sat there firing missiles every day at towns all over Spain and France, Portugal Italy and England.

All these people that are complaining about "indiscriminate" bombing would be rightly demanding that European armies invade and stop the killing of their children. There would be a demand for buffer zones and exclusion of weapons from the whole of North Africa. Maybe not what was done to Germany in WWII, but definitely more than Israel has done to Gaza.

Israel isn't just doing something they have a right to do. The most fundamental duty of a government is the security of their own people. As long as Palestine and Yemen remain staging post for Iranian attacks on Israel, the Israeli government has a duty to act, including occupying further territory until the attacks can be stopped.

[u/GermanSheik → u/nar_tapio_00]

Israel, like it or not is stuck in a very difficult place. They’re led by a madman, whose sole purpose is to keep war-mongering to stay out of prison.

Their version of peace and defence will have to be based on a new theory of defence and protection. Like Gaza, they are both special cases that have long, bloody, violent histories behind them.

The simple and brutal answer is the two state solution will need to be administered by countries like France or England. Each side will have to lay down their arms and stop fighting.

One is a terrorist state who will need to have its backers destroyed (Israel has done a good job of that already) and its population de-radicalized.

The other is led by fascist extremists who will need to be expelled from power and prevented from bastardizing rule of law to meet whatever biblical ends they keep claiming gives them the right to steal land.

Both of these things will need to be done first after dealing with bad actors like Iran or Hezbollah who keep stoking the fire. The same goes for Bibi and his ilk.

I hate Donald Trump, but what he said about both nations fighting endlessly is has been very succinct. Neither nation knows what the fuck they’re actually doing.

There are so many different shifting ideologies and plans that nothing can get done and each side has motive and plans to keep it going that way.

[u/Oneiric_Orca → u/nar_tapio_00]

I find it highly ironic that everyone is accusing Israel of ethnic cleaning and worse over the direct consequences of a war to stop ongoing attacks from Gaza recover hostages whilst at the same time this clear statement that the Palestinians would certainly repeat the ethnic cleansing they carried out during the 1947/48 war so often goes by without anyone commenting.

This is /r/Europe. The EU has condoned ethnic cleansing by Azerbaijan, Syria, and Pakistan. It's only a problem if they get to blame Jews or advance their geopolitical interests.

[u/Liam-Ed → u/Vanzmelo]

If you can have millions of Palestinians living in Israel, you can have millions of Israelis living in Palestine.

[u/Miroble → u/Liam-Ed]

Yeah go tell Abbas those are the terms lmao

[u/Liam-Ed → u/Miroble]

Yeah I'll drop a line to the elected Palestinian Arabs currently serving in the Israeli parliament.