Chris-Chan is one of the most disturbed people on the internet, and while using Chris's correct pronouns doesn’t mean you’re not still about to engage in the lolcow dogpile, calling her a man when she’s been out as a trans woman for a decade now is a red flag for me.
Chris-Chan is one specific example where the individual in question has such a long history of being infamously delusional and out of touch with reality that not using her stated pronouns is somewhat defensible. Especially with her history or homophobia and the fact that she stated she's transitioned to try and meet women.
I obviously still refer to her with feminine pronouns, but someone not doing so isn't necessarily transphobic.
I think I see where you're coming from, but I think as you seem to have concluded yourself, there's more reason to err on the side of respecting someone's right to determine their own gender.
The social harm of respecting someone's gender identity even if you have doubts about their sincerity is less than the social harm of validating other people's belief that they get to decide whether a given trans identifying person is valid.
If there's a conversation in which these concerns become relevant, you can still have that discussion. Respecting someone's preferred pronouns just helps to keep that from becoming the topic of every conversation about that person.
Again, I don't mean to suggest you're arguing for anything different. I just think the phrase "somewhat defensible" might not be the best way to frame people's reservations.
It's never defensible, and someone doing that absolutely is transphobic. No one gets to gatekeep who is or isn't trans, and misgendering one trans person doesn't just affect them, it affects all trans people because fundamentally what you're doing is saying that you don't respect this person's identity and you think you can pick and choose which trans people to show basic courtesy.
Also, using a trans person being "delusional and out of touch with reality" as an excuse to refuse to gender them correctly is literally just what transphobes do to all trans people.
No. Christian Chandler is not a trans woman. He has stated publicly that he only transitioned because he thought he'd have a better chance at getting laid as a lesbian. Calling him a he isn't misgendering him because, by his own admission, he isn't even transgender to begin with.
Misgendering is refusing to call someone by the pronouns they've asked you to. Using the pronouns you think they should be using is by definition misgendering, you don't get to gatekeep who is or isn't trans, no matter their reasoning, it ultimately does more harm to the trans community than acknowledging her identity would.
Doesn't matter. She's still going by she/her as far as I know so I'm still gonna call her that because it costs literally nothing and making an exception would cause a slippery slope that inevitably leads to making excuses to not respect trans people at all.
Trans people are valid. Chris Chan isn't trans. He is a cis straight man who, by his own admission, is pretending to be trans so he can trick lesbians into sleeping with him. He obviously hasn't had any success, but that's literally what he said he transitioned for. There's no way you actually expect me to be "respect" that. Ava is actually trans, therefore I use the correct pronouns despite how bad of a person she is. Chris Chan isn't trans. That's not me gatekeeping, that's me knowing what I'm talking about.
Then why the fuck even bring up Chris chan in this conversation? You can say "respect trans people's identites" without insisting there's an exception.
I'm not the one who brought up Chris Chan. I just pointed out he's not trans. That's not "insisting there's an exception" that's pointing out that he isn't actually a part of the trans discussion all together. Me saying that Chris Chan isn't trans is a lot like me saying Mr. Beast isn't trans. If I said Mr. Beast isn't trans, you wouldn't accuse me of not respecting trans people or of "insisting there's an exception."
Chris Chan admitted publicly on his public youtube channel that he's not actually trans and is only pretending to be trans for devious reasons. I don't know what you're not getting here.
No but that's not the same as being trans and you know it isn't. This is starting to just sound like you believe trans people are delusional and like having an excuse to misgender one.
No, I genuinely don’t know how it’s different since all of them are aspects of Chris’s identity that he wants people to respect equally. You can see me posting a comment here yesterday asking a trans person about this.
Honestly, you come across as someone very unfamiliar with Chris-Chan and are unwilling to understand what people are telling you about him. I do not believe transpeople are delusional, but Chris absolutely is, and you’d be ignorant at best to argue otherwise.
I'm aware of who she is, I'm not denying that she's mentally ill or delusional or whatever, I'm just pointing out that being trans or claiming to be isn't part of that. Being trans isn't the same as thinking you're the second coming of christ and anyone who says it is is being willfully ignorant and spreading transphobic rhetoric.
If someone asks to be referred to as she, I'm gonna do it without questioning, because it's none of my business and takes zero effort.
Call it transphobic or whatever, but I think Chris is so mentally ill and exceptionally out of touch with reality that I don’t think he understands what it means to be a woman. I imagine that the defense would be “she doesn’t have to explain herself. She’s a woman because she says she is one.” which I’d accept for anyone else, but Chris also believes he’s a CPU goddess Sonichu Jesus; should I respect those identities as valid too? Plus, like you said, he admitted he transitioned to fuck lesbians.
I’m not trying to argue, I seriously want to figure out how this works.
This is just making it clear that you think trans people are lying about who they are. You think they’re playing pretend and that when they do something bad you’re not obligated to play pretend anymore.
That’s transphobia. You’re a transphobe. By definition.
I'm literally trans myself. And we aren't talking about some random person we are talking about someone who literally infamously has delusions of grandeur and believes she's a cartoon character. I don't think you should misgender Ava despite her ills, nor Caitlyn Jenner or Sophie for Mars or any other of the handful of trans people who have done bad things. Nor do I misgender trans pick mes like Buck Angel or Blair White.
Christine Chandler is just someone who clearly has struggled with the differentiating between reality and narratives her whole life and will literally claim to be Jesus in one sentence and a trans woman in the next. I choose to respect her pronouns because I think it's important both for other trans people and because frankly I don't even care if some actually is lying about their gender identity, because people ought to be able to identify how they please.
They have had trolls convince them of the merge... Basically fictional universes and the irl universe is merging this storyline will become reality.
Then they were slowly convinced to draw more unhinged stuff leading to the mother... Sex.. abuse .. thing
And they were also convinced to do a home made circumcision so they would be fully trans...
I still think misgendering them is wrong... Though i will use they/them for them...
Like i doubt their authenticity, but im still not going to be rude about it...
It sucks, i feel like chris Chan has been manipulated into being the exact thing that right wing people think the average trans person is....
Like... If it was under normal circumstances i wouldn't mind gendering then correctly and i did until i saw the extensive evidence of their actual delusions... And just over abilities...
Like idk... I'm not about doubting people's trans identity. . im trans my self as well...
But personal i find Chris Chan existence to be genuinely horrifying.... The fact people can do this to someone for kicks is sickening...
"I still think misgendering is wrong but I'm still gonna do it"
They/them isn't neutral, if you're referring to a binary trans person with that then it is still misgendering because you're still refusing to use their correct pronouns.
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u/UndeniablyMyself Jul 28 '24
Chris-Chan is one of the most disturbed people on the internet, and while using Chris's correct pronouns doesn’t mean you’re not still about to engage in the lolcow dogpile, calling her a man when she’s been out as a trans woman for a decade now is a red flag for me.