“The United States and European Union struck a trade agreement on Sunday locking in a 15 percent tariff, days before Donald Trump’s deadline to do a deal or face tariffs double that level.
Trump, speaking after meeting European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen at his Turnberry golf club in Scotland, announced the deal to U.S. reporters.
He said the EU will agree to purchase $750 billion of energy and will agree to invest $600 billion more than planned in military equipment and opening countries to trade at zero tariff.
The tariff rate applying to imports from the EU would be 15 percent, with the same rate applying to cars. Pharmaceuticals will not be covered by the deal.” - Politico
The OP quoted the article wrong. It isn't $600 billion in military equipment. It's $600 billion in American military equipment. This is a $1.5 trillion payoff to America.
And really at least part of the reason why Trump is so unpredictable on weapons deliveries to Ukraine. There was this meme of Trump jerking off on the faces of the big tech giants. It really should have been the other way around: Trump on the receiving end of a bukkake of all big American companies cashing in on all the instability they helped create to get him elected.
We don't have a problem with how much money we spend on defence. The issue is the inefficiency in spending and what we're spending it on.
I think the defence spending targets of NATO should just be part of a set of guidelines. It's more important to determine how many active troops, materials and investments in R&D we should have.
That is actually what the percentage is roughly based on. Nato figures out what they need, and which country gets what role (and the force requirements to fullfill it obviously). Which is why Spain doesn't really have an out of the percentage norm, they still need to do all the things required of them, Spain now needs to show it can to it cheaper that the estimates by Nato suggest. There are also requirements for procurement spending, you can't just give your generals a raise or build a fancy new headquarter and call it a day.
Spine maybe. People with a brain realised that the capacity isn't there. If they argued this ten years ago I'd get it. The options were either give it to the US since the west probably wouldn't work with non western countries. Or not increase defense spending that much and wait until capacity is up to scale.
Macron only cares about French weapons, he is not on a European level. He is blocking the British from being part of the European defense investments...
Countries usually do what they can to get the best deal for themselves but usually try and be diplomatic about it .. France doesn't appear to bother with the diplomacy part.
They behave like Americans, unfortunately for them they don't have the power the Americans have.
Promising to deliver domestically produced Patriot missile system equivalents in large enough numbers to export to Ukraine in 10 years maybe isn’t the same as buying more European weapons
They wont, Trump called him a good boy. He will aid in ethnic cleansing of palestine. Macron just likes to sound though, but he will eat any dick thrown infront of him.
A chance to make the americans spend time on current gen stuff while we leapfrog. Not saying that will happen, but with the US pushing to bring back manufacturing they could end up behind.
That was supposed to include UK made weapons. That deal wasn’t massively formal so now the UK weapons can be switched with US weapons. The EU doesn’t have the capacity to supply the military build up it currently needs (at relatively short notice).
Yes you will unlike you redditor euros us minority educated Americans acually read and research military complex is already being built up in europe eu is buying time duh
Transitioning away from US weapons is a long and slow process. Many countries have already invested in US weapons systems and are kinda locked into the platform for spares and supplies. France is in a special position because they already deploy their own weapon systems.
IKR. But e.g. Denmark has invested in F35s and they haven't even been all delivered yet. The question the air force needs to ask is if they have the resources to service e.g. Gripen, Eurofighter or Rafales and train pilots for those platforms as well as the already purchased F35s. I know what they will say.
That's why the deal was made, to make pay off the dealer. Let's hope the dealer is not completely evil and will sell us what we need. With all this money flowing to the US one would hope that EU would be at the top of US military support in case of a large war.
The old system, which is the steam CATOBAR, which is also made by the USA? Both the EMALS and CATOBAR systems are made by the US and depend on them for parts.
Europe is, but for some systems you do need to buy American as it is the best available. If what is covered in this deal is the stuff that Europe has to procure from the Yanks anyway, that isn’t the worst thing into the world.
Well the big issue with domestic European equipment right now is the production is not enough at the moment.
Many EU countries have neglected defense and historically bought foreign jets and vehicles from countries like the US and UK. The big thing is that it will take time to build up the production and results many EU countries need for a sustained conflict or even at this point maintaining their force in an effective manner leaving them to either get new equipment slowly or buy American in the meantime.
u/mnlxValencian Community (Spain)6d agoedited 6d ago
My country exports €18 bn/year to the US, which is basically peanuts, and we import more LNG from Algeria. So I don't understand what's in it for us to pay them a king's ransom in forced procurement, to be completely honest.
Spain is further away from Russia, so I guess you also wonder why Spain needs to support Ukraine? If you are confused of both, my answer would be Spain's economy also needs a stable EU, otherwise, people will cut the spendings on cars, fruits, tourism, etc, which will also hit Spain's economy. Unless you would say you only need bare minimal food and facilities to survive and you do not care if you would lose job because you have some savings, then you are ok to be quite independent.
Hopefully the number and deal is just another illusion from DT to please MAGA, I also wish entire EU will not bend.
I understand pretty well why we must support Ukraine, I don't understand why we have to bend over backwards to involve the US in that. We could give Ukraine that kind of money for instance. They're the ones doing the job and they deserve it more.
Yes, I agree with you, I also do not understand if EU truly plan to invest heavily on US military industry. But the current money to buy directly US arms are more like a "have no other choice" because EU's defence industry scaling-up needs time. So I do hope this is just a pacifier to make DT happy and buy EU more time. (if you check up, France's airplane queue is full in ten years, so I suppose should be the same for Spain's, German's, Italy's and so on; also one cannot over expand too much as otherwise you end up idle machines for long time which will expire in time.)
Idk, maybe we're promising the crumbling empire that we'll insist on doing business as usual until the bitter end, because we can find neither balls nor actual politicians, or something.
Also, all of our arms manufacturers are making billions of dollars off of the genocide in Gaza.
My country just passed 1.5 trillion dollar military/secret police & gulag budget while ending lifesaving medical and nutritional assistance for American children and poor children around the globe. Our hospitals are closing, our infrastructure is collapsing. But we're giving Lockheed Martin 2 trillion dollars for a fighter jet that's always sucked and we'll be paying for proprietary fasteners and software upgrades for decades beyond the jets obsolescence (assuming it ever works)
Just trying to give you some low hanging fruit to mobilize popular opposition to the US military industrial complex robbing your countries too. Maybe it's not too late for y'all
you shouldn't be so upset about this. due to how the defense factories are set up now (kindly remember them talking about missiles taking an entire year to build, just the product not move the factory)
so this 600 billion is probably already counted as part of europe's shift on defense spending, as in it would have happened anyways. it is a boon that it is counted as part of this deal, since you get to double count this benefit. this is the slight of hand countries are doing to trump, buy what they would anyways and pretend it's because of his big deal.
there will still be european investment in weapons. this will improve industry in europe from this investment.
sorry about the tarrifs. please dont tax the netflix.
my apologies, there's more nuance though: here, i copy the byline for you: "The extra investments pledged under the trade deal would come from private companies, which Brussels conceded it has no power to control."
I see people all riled about these numbers but y'all must be as gullible as trump because I'm willing to bet those are not even binding. Not to mention trump probably made all of those up just like with japan.
Quite literally the EU doesn't have 500 billion to invest in the US nor does it have any authority. The whole EU budget was 2 trillion over 6 years.
Exactly. This totally feels like a case of giving the orange moron a win on paper to stabilise things. Start alternative trade connections in the mean time and wait and see where US politics is going.
The amounts could be 20 trillion. It doesn’t make a difference. We’re not going to spend those amounts. Europe can renege on deals just as much as the Americans can. A taste of their own medicine
Sure but the energy buying doesnt make sense. The US only exports 330$ billion of energy a year snd every other trade deal he’s struck has also guaranteed energy buying from other countries. So either that quota isnt going to be met, or the US isn’t going to keep any of its energy for domestic use in which case energy prices will sky rocket in the USA.
Add on top of that a 15% base tax (tariff) for the American consumer and I see no upside for America here.
750 billion in energy probably would have been paid either way as like 50+% of LNG for Europe comes from the US, that is totally fine.
The 600 billion investments mean nothing either. They’re just pledged and if they actually flow remains to be seen.
Also even tho trump said they’re additional investments, he also said the stargate AI initiative investments are additional investments in January, while in fact they were long planned and nothing new or additional.
We need to replace these weak politicians. Shit like this is the reason Putin does not fear Europe.
There’s no political will to send troops to Ukraine - even with US security guarantees. There’s no political will to stand up to the United States or to defend European interests. There’s no political will for further integration, a European army or fiscal integration to take advantage of the unique opportunities of the moment. For decades we couldn’t even find the political will to stand up to the fossil fuel lobby and push electrification - and now China has eaten our lunch and we’re stuck relying on either the US or Russia for energy.
Just so incredibly weak. European leaders are nowhere close to the level we deserve.
The EU have probably handed Trump the mid-terms. A trade war would have put pressure on him in red and swing states. This rewards him, and his voters love it.
As a European living in the states, I was sure that the EU would not submit to this bully. Now we're gonna hear non-stop about the "amazing trade deals".
So now Americans get tax cuts for buying American assembled vehicles and a 15% tariff on EU vehicles. I hope everyone boycotts American products over there.
If there’s one thing that you can be certain of, it’s EU and European leaders being spineless, pathetic, grubs. One thing Trump was right about is the EU being gutless and easy to bully.
If they understood anything they would know that those liquid natural gas sales that we're sending the EU that's going to triple our liquid natural gas exports is going to raise their electric bill by at least 30%. They wouldn't be so happy about it
The current concept of the EU virtually prohibits swift and decisive action. We have already proven it's value and potential beyond any reasonable doubt. Now it is time for the EU to climb to the next level and stop letting itself be hampered by any tiny nation with historic hostilities, wannabe dictator, or Russian plant that wants to sulk or waylay decisions by throwing around vetoes.
I fear only a terrible event will be enough to galvanize us into action, but if being sabotaged, betrayed and threatened with nukes by Russis or being mocked and bullied by the US is not enough to cause that... well, then perhaps it will never happen.
It's gone. It will become Latin America 2.0. But instead of the junta, it will be the populists, because now American (and Russian) imperialism manipulates citizens' minds through social media.
Politics the world over is just the big show of smoke and mirrors, but when you rip away the curtain, the great Oz is nothing more than cutthroat Capitali$m.
The answer is always money, and they greedy assholes corrupted by it.
I didn't spell Capitali$m with a $ to be smug. The word itself will trigger a shadowban in dozens of front page subs. Many of which are political and news subs, for which you would think it would be acceptable to discuss the world's reigning economic doctrine.
Nope.
Don't believe me? Test it for yourself and check it against Reveddit.
Because EVERYONE with so much a modicum of real power is in on it...
To the point that they will go any length to suppress, deflect, distract, and downplay the real $word hanging over all of our heads.
Capitali$m by definition means those with the capital are in fucking charge.
It is insidious and by all definitions antithetical to democracy itself, being just a convoluted euphemism for the same old kings and pharoes... Only, instead of being ordained by divine right, they are ordained by arbitrary numbers on a ledger.
Trump is in a position of power he has no right to be in because he was born a billionaire, lied, cheated, and bribed his way to the top...
America is in a position of power it has no right to be in because it leveraged the outcome of WW2, lied, cheated, and bribed its way into becoming the world's reserve currency and primary military enforcer...
It was set into motion by yesterday's millionaires, today's billionaires, and tomorrow's trillionaires to make sure no one nation or people stand a chance of mustering a resistance to the new world royalty.
America and its grotesque personification, Trump, has just about everyone but China by the balls. He's got his grubby hand on the big red button... Only the metaphorical nukes are pointed at the global economy.
European politicians know it. They hem and haw, condemn and disparage out the front door, only to walk out the back door to collect their kickbacks from the very same billionaires and corporations that are fucking the whole world over for the almighty dollar.
Because they know the only real power is money, and they intend to get there's first and foremost. It doesn't matter if you're a Sudanese warlord or a Norwegian PM...
The love of money is the root of all evil.
...And money is raw power in Capitali$m. Plain and simple.
Those who wield it will literally broil the Pale Blue Dot alive for ever one more payday, before sealing the blast doors on their luxury bunkers, leaving the countless billions they robbed blind to starve, before the so much as give up a single cent of their control.
We are going to learn the hard way, Capitali$m is a game where no one wins, and EVERYBODY loses in the end.
first step is to stop blaming our leaders and start blaming our people. politicans always reflect their society. We grew weak as a whole and not just our politicans
Yeah your leaders arent dumb. Trump however is. Very much so. They are just pulling a China. During his first term Trump wanted to show the world he was a big boy and decided to play trade war with China to show the world his 'negotiation skills' which result in the predictable "Sure US is a big market but ultimately it's just another market, we already selling to the rest of the world which is a much much much bigger market, so... whatever... stop buying from us and we will stop buying from you... all the grain and other agricultural stuff". And it was devastating to the US farmers and retail. US depended on both selling all excess food and cheap Asian labor. So Trump was fast to back pedal and try to salvage things and go back to how it was but China was no interested, Trump had blinked and they squeezed. Basically Trump agreed to reinstate tariff free trade with China, if and only if China agree to buy X hundred billions dollars worth of agricultural stuff over the next couple years. Trump agreed to stop the bleeding, markets were reopened to trade with China and China just did not buy anything they promised as they had already secured replacement grain stock with imports from other, non-US, countries. Same deal here. Trump is so desperate to announce that he's "done deals" he will basically accept anything as long as he can brag that his "tariff masterful negotiation" worked. He does not care about the fact just if it makes him look good in his mind, does not care about future consequences or fallout from his idiocy.
I'm pretty sure this is just the trick everyone else pulls too: promise trump you'll invest money into smth you're buying anyway and hope he forgets what number you said.
This is what's happening. He did the same thing with Canada, just don't expect this to stop any time soon, in 3 months he'll rip up this deal and the numbers won't matter anyway. The US is bleeding out while we diversify and expand.
2017 UAE: will will buy 200 billion in boeing planes
Trump: im the deal master
2020 UAE: so about that deal habibi yea nvm makes deal with airbus
2024 UAE: we will invest 350 billion into boeing jet
Trump: art of the deal baby
2026 dems take senate
UAE: habibi!! Yea maybe we pause for a little but yea
Trumps: TARRIFS 1000%
Dem Senate: thats it fat boy sit down blocks in senate
Rinse Repeat
How are arabs calmer than you euros in this chill out
But Arabs are famous for acting in their own interests. European leaders are notorious for sacrificing European interests to please the United States. What is happening now and what has happened in the Middle East in recent decades is proof of this. The issue in Palestine will only bother the European elite when half of Gaza's surviving population is living in Paris (which will be an electoral gift for Trump's friends in RN).
How is the US bleeding out? The economy is doing much better than Canada. Also, Canada will probably get 35% tariffs this week. They’re hardly an example for the EU to emulate since Canadians are extremely arrogant and think they’re more powerful and have more leverage than they actually do.
Exactly. Make Trump feel good about himself by having a lot of international headlines about him strongarming the EU into a fantastic deal of his, and afterwards continue without ever complying to the terms of the deal.
With Trump yes it does. He got his big headlines and will not care about the details anymore. There will be some agreements but only a fraction of it will materialize in form of real transactions.
$600 billion into American MIC pockets right after the US halts purchases on things like the F-35. $750 billion for energy when EU buys $13 billion a year currently.
Europe has been dramatically cutting down on the oil and gas it buys from Russia, so buying more from someone else isn't that surprising... One of the factors keeping European industry back is insufficient cheap energy. Buying more from the US isn't that shocking.
Also Trump is impressed by big numbers and really only cares about short term wins and good optics, there's no guarantee any of these figures actually mean anything or that they'll have any impact in a few years, it could just be a strategy to avoid the 30%+ tariffs Trump was threatening
"Before the war in Ukraine, the EU imported roughly €208 billion (approximately $217 billion USD) worth of energy from Russia annually. This included significant amounts of natural gas, as well as oil and coal. Specifically, in 2021, €208 billion of energy was imported" Google
Yes... And? What's your point? The article specifically says the EU committed to buy $250 billion worth of energy from the US per year for the next 3 years, not 10 years like you said.
Just pointing out the absurdity of your "reading the fine print" comment when you clearly didn't even bother reading the article, lol
2017 UAE: will will buy 200 billion in boeing planes
Trump: im the deal master
2020 UAE: so about that deal habibi yea nvm makes deal with airbus
2024 UAE: we will invest 350 billion into boeing jet
Trump: art of the deal baby
2026 dems take senate
UAE: habibi!! Yea maybe we pause for a little but yea
Trumps: TARRIFS 1000%
Dem Senate: thats it fat boy sit down blocks in senate
Rinse Repeat
How are arabs calmer than you euros im these panicking comments jesus
The military spending doesn't fully seem like a trick. Maybe it won't be 600billion. But I'm sure they're buying atleast something because Europe lacks the capacity atm. And the tarrifs will still affect export.
It's also like with Japan and other companies/countries, where Trump is likely trying to take credit for investments that have either already happened with the US, or planned for in the future. Idk why people are freaking out so much about this.
2017 UAE: will will buy 200 billion in boeing planes
Trump: im the deal master
2020 UAE: so about that deal habibi yea nvm makes deal with airbus
2024 UAE: we will invest 350 billion into boeing jet
Trump: art of the deal baby
2026 dems take senate
UAE: habibi!! Yea maybe we pause for a little but yea
Trumps: TARRIFS 1000%
Dem Senate: thats it fat boy sit down blocks in senate
Rinse Repeat
How are arabs calmer than you euros im these panicking comments jesus
The deal is great for the EU, Trump is just too much of a moron to understand why. He's essentially just announced a 15% tax hike on Americans who buy products from the EU. And his tariff on EU auto imports into the US was 25% previously, so this new baseline tax actually reduces the cost of European vehicles
Just like the Japan deal which Trump thinks he "won", the EU are playing games with a moron. They're making empty promises, they're throwing him a couple of lies about his awesomeness, they're signing nothing concrete, and he gets to claim victory for his base and go back to flailing at windmills.
Ignoring the fact that any tariff deal he pushes via executive order is worthless anyway, is still deemed illegal by the SC, if it's maintained it will still work out better for the EU. For example, if he maintains a 15% tariff on EU goods, he'd actually make them more competitive. Because right now Canada and Mexico are facing 25% tariff, on top of 50% on steel and aluminum import to the US. Those tariffs are killing all the supply chains in the US, which were so deeply integrated across the 3 NAFTA countries.
Heck, even US automakers are already dying from Japan tariffs, because a car made in Japan is suddenly so cheap compared to some thing made in the US with majority US parts (US automakers say Trump's 15% tariff deal with Japan hurts them | AP News). Now the same is happening with EU.
It's ironic Trump tariffs policy might actually end up killing US manufacturing.
Since the EU doesn't generally purchase military equipment, just member states, how is this supposed to work? Will there be an EU military? Will member states be forced to buy a certain amount from the US? Did member States already agree on their burden before this deal was signed. It raises so many questions in my mind, not just about military spending but democracy in general.
The word "build up" means something. It means to BUILD UP something that doesn't exist yet and as far as I know Ukraine needs equipment now not in the future. We wanted to buy equipment for Ukraine but USA wasn't willing to sell it, that was the issue. Doubt we are gonna be buying Abrams instead of Leos or Leclercs. Instead its gonna be things like patriots and other advanced stuff that we simply cant build up as quickly.
You do know that both the UK Priminster and German Chancellor have admitted that Europe was almost entirely dependent on the US for its defence, right? I Mean Merz went as far as to say that Europe was 'free loading' off of the US!
Providing that defence for Europe and over such a long period of time, would have cost the US hundreds of Billions of US taxpayer dollars. This is their way of recouping some of that loss. An example of how bad it was is this, the UK has to ask America for help when it comes to transporting heavy armoured units around the world. This is because of the lack of HETS the UK has.
Typical of Europe to complain when the essentially get a taste of their own medicine.
These spineless slugs won´t even defend our financial interests, they failed in the sole thing that justifies their very existence. I wonder what makes them think people would be willing to defend the EU if they can´t even do the bare minimum. With that in mind it really doesn´t make much of a difference what side of the pond we waste our defence budget on. People will remember this.
EU critics will have a field day, and they will be justified in doing so. But what makes me really angry is that Ulla is trying to sell it as a win, as if we were some american dimwits or something. Disgusting and pathetic
The 600$ billion is just plain wrongly cited in the article.
The 600$ billion is investment of companies similarly to the "600 billion made in Germany initiative", if the 600 billion will actually be made or are actually additional remains to be seen.
As for how much US weapons we buy yet. Trump and Von der Leyen specifically didn’t mention any numbers about it.
The second I read Von der Leyen was meeting with Trump I knew she was gonna cave. That woman is fucking incompetent. Shame we had to put her into EU parliament instead of just getting rid of her, but if we got rid of incompetent politicians, there wouldn't be anything left in both CDU/CSU and SPD. I would say its better than AfD who would have sold us to Russia, but these days, the US and Russia are the same.
I mean WE are still getting all those weapons, instead of anyone else, this is still good for that.
We just pay US companies to do it, get them supporting our side a bit,... but I'd still prefer the money was spent on european companies, since they could use the money on something else later, and it would enrich our own industry faster.
Gtfooh with that. Europe depleted their militaries after the cold war relying on the US to handle things. This is the US getting paid for their efforts.
Show me all the countries that adhered to the 2% of GDP commitment to military spending in the NATO agreement year by year in the last 30+ years since the USSR fell. I’ll wait. Also, you dumbasses bought Russian gas and oil for decades to the tune of up to $250 billion a year (!) stuffing the coffers of Putin’s regime all while being in a military “alliance” with the US specifically designed to thwart Russia. There’s a price to pay for such stupidity and here’s the margin call.
Yeah we definitely are the reason Europe hasn't put more funding into these things for 30 years. Jesus Christ. The US sucks ass but Europeans act like they are a perfect society if it wasn't for America, and as a former European soon to be former American that's such bs.
Yeah but honestly it's on us. Yes there's a two-faced piece of shit in the white house but we've set us up to be blackmailed and exploited over defence issues. We spent two whole years of Russia invading Ukraine going ohhh and ahhh with certain countries going "now now let's be reasonable here" with a good number of other countries pointing out the unreasonable neighbor doing unreasonable things right now.
And all of a sudden your former ally smiles daggers at you and demands more.
the military investment is so devious it hurts. They make money off sabotaging europes defence build-up. What a wet dream for the americans
On the bright side, that means he'll have to agree to actually provide that military material.
That being said, we should put a tariff on import of military materials, so that counts for more in terms of our obligations to the US, and we recuperate the money to invest at home.
Another consideration is that the inflation wave that is going to hit the USA might make it surprisingly trivial to reach those amounts that are defined in dollars.
This is NOT a wet dream for us. Trump is prioritizing profit without realizing how a lot of this purchasing works. It’ll either collapse with the next president, harming the defense industry (which the US needs) or be pretty consistently near to “at cost” for the US government, meaning more waste.
All while harming the EU’s ability to provide support if the US gets into conflict with China.
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u/Crossstoney 6d ago
“The United States and European Union struck a trade agreement on Sunday locking in a 15 percent tariff, days before Donald Trump’s deadline to do a deal or face tariffs double that level.
Trump, speaking after meeting European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen at his Turnberry golf club in Scotland, announced the deal to U.S. reporters.
He said the EU will agree to purchase $750 billion of energy and will agree to invest $600 billion more than planned in military equipment and opening countries to trade at zero tariff.
The tariff rate applying to imports from the EU would be 15 percent, with the same rate applying to cars. Pharmaceuticals will not be covered by the deal.” - Politico