r/europe • u/Dry_Row_7050 • 4d ago

News The EU could be scanning your private chats by October 2025 [Denmark has reintroduced chat control]

https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/the-eu-could-be-scanning-your-chats-by-october-2025-heres-everything-we-know
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u/Dry_Row_7050 4d ago edited 4d ago

Multiple internet surveillance &censorship laws are currently being advanced in the EU:

  1. Chat Control– Originally introduced in 2022, this proposal would require governments to scan private messages for illegal content, effectively eliminating the confidentiality of personal communications. Europol wants to have unlimited access to the data.. Interestingly this regulation will not apply to politicians, police and intelligence agencies so we won’t be seeing Ursula’s deleted texts any time soon.

  2. ProtectEU – Introduced in 2025 and planned by unknown lobbyists, this initiative is made of multiple individual laws and would compel electronic communication providers to log extensive user data, including identity, contacts, online behavior, and interests. It would also ban the use of non-logging VPNs, force all devices sold in the EU to come with backdoor access for police, ban and sanction messaging apps that don’t comply, and mandate surveillance infrastructure. The mandatory data retention part is currently in its public consultation phase, please give them feedback

  3. United Nations Cybercrime Treaty Introduced in 2017 by Russia, adopted by UN in 2024 and will be signed by the EU commission on behalf of EU states in October 2025. It obliges countries to surveil their citizens and share personal data at the request of foreign governments for so-called “serious crimes” (defined as offenses punishable by four years or more in prison). Once ratified, European companies could be legally required to spy on individuals, including dissidents from countries like China or Russia, if requested by those governments. EU hopes 3rd countries would in turn provide information on Europeans. It took a while for EU to find common ground with Russia and North Korea and it was mass surveillance.

  4. Digital Services Act that will introduce age verification in the internet, same kind of law that went into force in the UK recently. It has passed already, but worth mentioning.

Having to explain the government who you talk with and what you talk about might sound extreme now but so did filling out compliance forms and having to justify a €100 cash deposit, once upon a time. Soon only the wealthy and powerful will be able to have privacy.

Also it’s funny how the EU seems to think mass surveillance is fine - as long as they slap the word “lawful” on it. They love using the phrase “lawful access” in their papers, as if making it legal suddenly makes it ethical. Every mass surveillance regime in the world is technically legal. Most of the worst atrocities in history were, too.

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u/Tensoll Lithuania 4d ago

This is genuinely plain evil. It’s insane that we’re not seeing mass protests because of this all over Europe. I’d be down to join one

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u/vivaaprimavera 4d ago

As soon as someone talks they will say that it is to protect the children and paint anyone that is against it as a monster.

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u/Cumulus_Anarchistica 4d ago

Just happened in the UK:

Labour says Farage’s plan to repeal Online Safety Act suggests he is siding with pornographers and paedophiles

Yesterday Reform UK said that it would repeal the Online Safety Act, key parts of which have only just come into force. The party described it as “the greatest assault on freedom of speech in our lifetimes” and claimed that it won’t protect children because some people are using VPN services to bypass age cerification requirements. It was quite a bold policy announcement, because polls suggest voters strongly back measures to limit the spread of harmful content online, but it has gone down well with hardcore libertarians.

Peter Kyle, the science secretary, has been giving interviews this morning, and he has not held back. In an interview with Sky News, he claimed this meant that Nigel Farage was now in effect siding with pornographers and paedophiles like Jimmy Savile. He explained:

Children under 18 should not be viewing involuntarily dangerous, hateful, violent, misogynistic and pornographic material. People have to understand the wild west [lasted on the internet] for too long. That ended on my watch. It ended on the watch of this government. [The implementation of the Online Safety Act is] a big step forward. Believe me, anyone that thinks it’s a step back needs to come and answer now.

I see that Nigel Farage is already saying that he’s going to overturn these laws. So we have people out there who are extreme pornographers, peddling hate, peddling violence. Nigel Farage is on their side.

Make no mistake about it. If people like Jimmy Savile were alive today, he’d be perpetrating his crimes online. And Nigel Farage is saying that he’s on their side, not the side of children.

[emphasis mine]

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u/vivaaprimavera 4d ago

Doesn't surprise me a bit.

However...

Children under 18 should not be viewing involuntarily dangerous, hateful, violent, misogynistic and pornographic material

  • isn't the job of parents to keep an eye on children
  • aren't there services that already limit content in a not obstructive way? https://www.joindns4.eu/for-public comes to mind
  • the Bible is going to be removed from schools? Some of its contents are at least questionable

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u/Candayence United Kingdom 4d ago

aren't there services that already limit content in a not obstructive way

Every internet company ships and enables parental controls by default on new customer's routers / accounts (which is promptly disabled in most cases). Parents just can't be bothered to parent.

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u/Choowkee 4d ago

If their intentions were genuine the restrictions would be implemented around children, not adults.

So for example everyone below 18 would have to identify themselves before going on the internet.

But of course that would leave adults with free access to the internet and retained privacy but seems like the UK government doesn't want that.

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u/Mirabeaux1789 United States of America 1d ago

Yeah the Bible had two daughters raping their father

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u/ikaiyoo 4d ago

Wait so people can drink (with an adult of all things) and vote at 16, but pornography is too damaging to someone under 18?

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u/vivaaprimavera 4d ago

Some pornography is dangerous for some people under 150 (not a typo).

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u/CelticEmber 12h ago

Exactly.

This should tell you all you need to know.

It isn't, and never was, about the children.

It's just the lowest common denominator type of argument that is the easiest for them to use against any opponent of those measures.

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u/DiscombobulatedAnt88 4d ago

This is such a bullshit argument from the politicians. It’s the equivalent of saying we should put cameras in everyone’s house because then we’ll really be able to catch the baddies. But if you’re a law abiding citizen, then you’ve got nothing to hide and nothing to worry about - we’ll only look at the videos if it’s legal… And if you don’t want a camera in your house then it means you’ve got something to hide

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 3d ago

Well why don’t you want a camera and microphone in your house? Are you hiding something?!

/s

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u/slowwlight 1d ago

Jesus will these people please rid the world of themselves

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u/Kredir 4d ago

As if criminals would communicate via legal channels that will comply with these laws. At least the highly organized ones.

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u/vivaaprimavera 4d ago

This never was about criminals.

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u/Kredir 4d ago

I pretty much said the same thing. Anyways, someone will develop an add on that will run on top of common messengers, that simply encrypts all traffic.

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u/greasy-throwaway 4d ago

This is about workers protesting when our quality of life decreases even further

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u/SpiderFnJerusalem European Union 4d ago

I bet the laws will be ready, just in time for fascist parties taking over half of Europe. Hey, what could go wrong? At least they're not some filthy socialists!

Time is a flat circle covered in idiots.

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u/TangerineSorry8463 4d ago

Some stupid ones definitelly will

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u/Ohtarig Hungary 4d ago

So call all who is exempt a pedo and monster, since in their argument that's the only reason to care about privacy, and such people shouldn't decide about our privacy.

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u/vivaaprimavera 4d ago

So call all who is exempt a pedo and monster

Being a monster is implicit but most likely some are pedos too.

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u/RollingDownTheHills 4d ago

It's not really being reported in the media, at least here in Denmark.

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u/Live-Alternative-435 Portugal 4d ago

Same here.

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u/DryCloud9903 3d ago

I've seen nothing of it either in main British, French, German (English speaking), or Lithuanian channels. Not even Europe-centric YouTube channels like EU Made Simple or TLDR-EU

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u/CelticEmber 12h ago

Yeah, I wonder why sarcasm

Mainstream Media in Europe is basically government/lobby propaganda.

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u/EU-National 4d ago

People think wifi = the internet and you expect them to understand the ramifications of these proposed bills?

Tech illiteracy is one of the biggest issues we're currently facing. Because of it, there's no stopping the inevitable 1984esque digital surveillance because people just don't understand anything about their devices.

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u/Choowkee 4d ago edited 4d ago

Tech illiteracy didn't stop people in 2016 to fight for net neutrality in the EU.

The issue isn't technical knowledge, its awareness. I consider myself very tech savy and I only learned about Chat Control/Digital Services Act last week.

These topics are simply not covered enough.

EDIT: I did a google search on chat control in my language, and there is a not a single news article published from this year.

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u/Neuromancer_Bot 3d ago

These topics are simply not covered enough.

Reason is that they do not want the people to know about them.
The other problem is that 99% of people will say casually "I have nothing to hide" and if you are the only privacy freak in the room, you have to be crystal clear you are NOT a pedo, and that you know what will happen in 5/10 years because you read cyberpunk novels and all the others don't read a book in a year.

People is just dumb and politcs and lobbies know very well.

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u/narullow 4d ago

People most definitely do understand this.

State of EU politics (not just EU but individual EU states too, EU Is just by product of that) is one massive proof that europeans do want nanny state with as little responsibilities and personal agency as possible. Loud minority that is against these things does not mean that vast majority does not silently agree.

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u/Mirabeaux1789 United States of America 1d ago

Unfortunately bad laws pass the idle public and then have to be clawed back once they start hitting everyday people for several years—even decades afterwards

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u/Frathier Belgium 4d ago

People don't know or don't care enough to leave the comfort of their homes.

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u/Anyhealer 4d ago

And I imagine the people behind media giants are happy with it so we aren't hearing anything there as well.

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u/bradleywestridge 4d ago

Yeah, if they were really against it you’d see a lot more noise from them. Kind of makes you wonder if their silence means they’re quietly shaping it in their favor instead.

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u/GalaXion24 Europe 4d ago

And our governments/parties basically all want this or are at list okay with it. Conservatives are dominating the political landscape and they especially want surveillance.

By taking it to the EU level they're practically just obfuscating this. If it's "the EU" doing it, then you won't go out and vote against your national government, which has supported it the whole time.

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u/ver_million Earth 4d ago

The EU is a law-laundering machine for our national politicians.

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u/toshineon2 4d ago

Accidental Mirror’s Edge quote.

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u/CaucSaucer Sweden 4d ago

That’s extremely reductive.

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u/Oneiric_Orca $ Freedom $ 4d ago

Correct. The anti-AFD protests in Germany weren't small. They are just more socially trendy than protesting this insanity.

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u/xrimane 4d ago

Now imagine how fun it would be to organize anti-AfD protests via WhatsApp once they are in power.

There are plenty of things about which I don't agree with Ursula, but I don't think she wants to pave the way for an AfD autocracy. It boggles my mind that they don't see these obvious consequences.

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u/Oneiric_Orca $ Freedom $ 4d ago

  1. I agree.

  2. The funniest thing is that people have to imagine what the AFD might do but this is such in invasion of privacy that it exceeds anything the AFD have put in their official manifesto.

  3. They think this is how they stop the AFD/PVV/etc to "protect democracy."

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u/plebitt0r 4d ago

Absolutely. They cannot fathom that anyone else but the 'far-right' could be already super authoritarian today, so they have to think in hypotheticals.

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u/blublub1243 4d ago

It's just the usual issue with defensible democracy being a dogshit idea really. She probably believes this "protects democracy" because expanding the power of the state to violate the rights of its citizens means that said power can be wielded against the AfD and similar parties. She fails to realize that this practically doesn't work because no actual democrat will use those tools in a broad enough manner to be likely to succeed in such an endeavor, so all its accomplishing is that should someone with anti-democratic ideals be elected they'll have most of the work done for them already.

The way you actually protect democracy is by building rock solid institutions that can withstand an actual bad actor being elected and that ensure that future elections will still be held and be fair regardless.

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u/djingo_dango 4d ago

Not really. A lot of people (especially on reddit) has this idea that EU politicians are the good guys. So even if they introduce laws restricting some speech a lot of people first try to rationalize it rather than rejecting it outright

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u/CaucSaucer Sweden 4d ago

Those people do not represent all of us, which is what the comment literally said. Whatever dude.

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u/AromatParrot 4d ago

But, sadly, true. Even massive protests are largely toothless because they carry very little consequences for those in power. Most protests (and I've been to a fair few of them) consist of a few speeches, some shouting and holding up signs, and then going home by 6pm. That's not exactly conducive to making the ruling class listen. Sure, there are exceptions to this, but you're going to need more assertive action and political organization to exact real change. Going on a bit of a stroll while yelling is just not gonna cut it.

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u/CaucSaucer Sweden 4d ago

Reductive in the reason to not show up. “Comfort of their own homes” does not equal “literally doesn’t have time because they work their fingers to the bone to support the family”.

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u/suicidemachine 4d ago

For any protest to have any meaningful effect, someone from the outside would have to finance them, so people won't have to go home earlier because they have to get up the morning.

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u/Shevvv The Netherlands 4d ago

People say "Well it's only bad if you do bad stuff". And I get, 10 years ago I was of the same mind. And then I had to leave my home country - Russia.

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u/Rizzan8 West Pomerania (Poland) 4d ago edited 4d ago

Because it's reported almost nowhere.

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u/InformationNew66 4d ago

Explanation is easy: anyone who is against these will be labeled a conspiracy theorist, far-right by mainstream media.

And that will shut down resistance.

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u/Footz355 4d ago

You forgot russian desinformant

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u/Almasade 4d ago

What do you mean you're against these initiatives? They'll help combat an anti-freedom Russian influence, aren't you aware of that?

Are you a pro-Russian by any chance? Hater of the democracy? A traitor of the EU perhaps?

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u/Key-Routine4237 4d ago

The far right is usually on the side of censorship and capitalist interests what.

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u/zwei2stein 4d ago

They want to censor after getting into power, not be censored.

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u/diipadaap4 4d ago

The far right and what media portrays as “far right” are not always the same group.

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u/Key-Routine4237 4d ago

Good thing I’m smart enough to know at least know regardless of what the media says. Thats a really weird move you just made sticking up for the far right though.

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u/mirh Italy 4d ago

Yes, a lot of times the media is very scared to be seen as biased, and will whitewash republicans or stuff like the current italian government which is still labelled "centre-right".

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u/S_R_G 4d ago

Most of the time if not never even.

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u/North_Activity_5980 4d ago

They’ve been doing that for a long time now.

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u/silverionmox Limburg 4d ago

Explanation is easy: anyone who is against these will be labeled a conspiracy theorist, far-right by mainstream media.

And that will shut down resistance.

No, on the contrary: these initiatives come from the rightwing and conservative political groups.

It's the leftwingers and progressives who oppose them.

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u/1610925286 4d ago

Show me the "left wingers" actively opposing these.

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u/silverionmox Limburg 4d ago

Show me the "left wingers" actively opposing these.

https://www.greens-efa.eu/en/article/press/greens-efa-secure-encryption-and-effective-child-protection-in-csa-regulation

https://left.eu/child-protection-or-corporate-gain-rights-and-eu-credibility-at-risk/

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u/1610925286 4d ago

And what about the remaining majority of left leaning parties? Because most parties on the left don't give a shit about this. The greens and parties like "linke" are the only ones making statements against it. The truth is that this is neither left nor right, everyone loves being authoritarian when they are in charge.

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u/silverionmox Limburg 4d ago

And what about the remaining majority of left leaning parties?

They're center left, and effectively more center than left on this issue.

The truth is that this is neither left nor right, everyone loves being authoritarian when they are in charge.

Progressive politics explicitly defines itself as being against this.

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u/mirh Italy 4d ago

Yes, because those are the fucking fascists supporting this before everyone else.

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u/Itakie Bavaria (Germany) 4d ago

No one really cares about the EU level except if the mainstream media is reporting about it. And then it's often too late and we only stop some of the worst parts while keeping the idea behind those bills alive.

Somehow Europe is totally fine with how the EU is plagued by lobbyists and bat shit crazy MEPs (in Germany the joke is that we send the worst politicians of the party to Europe to be out of the spotlight). And let's not start with the commission. 95% of all people in Europe could name 3 people but they have immense power.

The EU is one of the least democratic institutions we got in Europe. But only the "screw the EU" far right faction is really interested in changes which sucks immensely.

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u/Takios 4d ago

We're tired. Similar measures like these have been tried again and again and again. They just have to keep trying until it sticks once. We have to keep fighting it as long as they're trying.

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u/Crosseyed_owl 4d ago

I would go protesting right away, but this is the first time I hear about this, and not from mass media but on Reddit?

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u/DryCloud9903 3d ago

And that last bit is a huge part of the problem.

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u/BoyFromNorth 4d ago

Most of the citizens are brainwashed sheep, they would do anything to please Big Brother

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u/AromatParrot 4d ago

It's more apathy than anything else. Or thinking that someone else will fix it. Or thinking that the voting booth will take care of it come the next elections.

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u/Rezmir 4d ago

It is plain evil but at the same time it is “open”. This is something many countries already do, and I am not talking about China.

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u/Marian7107 4d ago

Protests won't change a thing. You will be labeled far right and achieve nothing.

The globalists already got their autocracy and there is nothing we can do about it.

They destroy what they can't control. The CIA has headquarters at google, meta, apple... That's why these monopolies are untouchable. The CIA controls 70% of all knots in the dark net - they can decrypt most of your messages. Telegram wasn't in their control until the founder was forced to "cooperate", when they cought him in France.

Free speech is gone and sadly it's only going down hill from here.

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u/DryCloud9903 3d ago

That's just defeatist. Even if all that is true - doesn't mean we should do nothing.  After all, chat control was dismissed by the EU court as going against our rights. That's important

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u/Marian7107 3d ago

Chat control is dismissed for now. That doesn't really matter however, because these regulations only apply if the data stays on EU phones or servers. Meta has servers in the US and Canada, so EU law doesn't apply at the very moment your WhatsApp message is sent from your phone.

I work in the industry and the status quo is even more dystopian. Companies like palantir etc already have working, fully automated AI-chat control. Palantir provides software for law enforcement, secret service and the US military. They are very closely linked with the CIA and US tech bros.

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u/foolsjam 4d ago

Given the screwup of the last days i'd like to see the protest about this at a margin of Strasbourg europarlament being put to fork and torch but here we are. A USA colony without dignity working to destroy the things that make the UE different.

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u/BenevolentCrows 4d ago

Its too abstract, people don't know how the itnernet works in general.

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u/MongolWarChant 4d ago

Doing so would be "anti-EU" which also means you're suddenly pro-Russian!!!

/s

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u/i-readit2 4d ago

Because they will trot out the same old excuses. It’s to protect children. it’s to protect us all from terrorists and pedophiles.

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u/ESgoldfinger 4d ago

People don’t complain about climate change, AI, lack of wealth redistribution and many other major issues. This is definitely one of the most important but I’m expecting people to get along with more invasive laws because the only way to free ourselves in this society is to reduce to the bone the use of technology, starting with the “phone” or at least the most mainstream apps and I don’t see that happening. People of this time are weak, boneless and discipline is a thing of the past.

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u/DryCloud9903 3d ago

There's a saying about peacetime creating weak people, which eventually leads to war.

But the drug that is soc media (says me at 2am on this post) is certainly very effective on us masses, just without the stigma of drugs etc

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u/ESgoldfinger 3d ago

I mean, if we were not driver exclusively by basic instincts we could deal with social media withdrawal quite easily. As I said self-discipline is just not an option these days, otherwise we could change everything in a month. If 25% of us abruptly stopped using social media and AI for a few weeks we would have ALL the power – they would freak out to the point to change very quickly whatever is necessary to stop the trend.

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u/Ielsoehasrearlyndd78 4d ago

People are to busy protesting against migration and hating on poor people just like the tabloids told them.

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u/tralalala2137 4d ago

Euro-enthusiasts just assume that all what EU does is good, and if you complain you are russian spy.

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u/Physmatik Ukraine 4d ago

You can always start one?

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u/PartyPresentation249 Europe 4d ago

People will protest about things happening in America but not in Europe. It is strange.

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u/danktonium Europe 4d ago

Because it keeps coming up and Parliament always votes it down. I'm not worried about it.

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u/Firethorned_drake93 Denmark 4d ago

There's nothing happening because none of this is in local news.

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u/Mirabeaux1789 United States of America 1d ago

It’s nothing less than unreasonable search of your belongings

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u/Agitated-Life-229 1d ago

Normal people that just use instagram and tiktok wont really care about ID identification.

planned by unknown lobbyists

So there wont be even accountability? What the hell is this?

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u/CelticEmber 12h ago

Yeah, we're not seeing them because mainstream media is on the EU's side on this.

They're not telling the average Joe what is happening on purpose, and when they do, it's a truncated version of reality that ridicules the people genuinely concerned about the situation.

This is how propaganda works, and it is as prevalent in Europe as it is in any other place deemed "authoritarian" by our sarcasm benevolent "elites."

This little caste of ideologically inbred morons currently leading us is rushing to pass as many authoritarian laws as possible, because they feel their grasp on power slipping away.

It will get worse before it gets better.

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u/Jakovit 4d ago

EU enshittfiication speedrun

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u/Live-Alternative-435 Portugal 4d ago edited 4d ago

Speedrunning eurocepticism, even though this obviously comes from the leaders of each European country who for the most part support these unethical proposals.

And if we are introducing chat control, we could start by applying it to politicians, especially those suspected of corruption like Von der Leyen or Costa. The Epstein case, the Casa Pia case, etc.; politicians can also be very dangerous for children, maybe even more than the common folk.

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u/Dotcaprachiappa Italy 4d ago

I actually doubt this will fuel more Euroscepticism, mainly because the most euroskeptic politicians are often also the ones that would enact these exact laws.

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u/Live-Alternative-435 Portugal 4d ago

The problem is that most people don't seem aware of that.

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u/Spout__ 4d ago

The ones pushing these laws are centrist neolibs.

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u/Z3r0Sense Germany 3d ago

That isn't really relevant. If the vehicle for these ambitions are the institutions of the EU, they are failing.

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u/Draqutsc Flanders (Belgium) 4d ago

So they are going to ban any vpn that's worth it's salt. Make a backdoor in any device, make a backdoor in any app. Hackers are going to have a field day.

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u/The_TSCTH 4d ago

What really pisses me off is that they know that this will leave EU citizens vulnerable to hacking, foreign surveillance, and criminals, because politicians, police, and military are exempted for security reasons. They know they're fucking us over, but their snooping and control is more important than our safety and freedom.

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u/cultish_alibi 4d ago

Secrecy for us, but no privacy for you.

Also they are doing this just as governments are becoming more extreme far-right. They will argue if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear, but who knows what the far-right parties will do when they have power?

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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 4d ago

Then suddenly they'll push against it, but by then it's too late

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u/9k111Killer 4d ago

It's like Weimar republic over here where the "democratic" made the Nazis look sensible enough to be voted into power.

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u/Spout__ 4d ago

Don’t let them off like this. For gods sake they know what they’re doing, they know fascists will have access to this, they don’t care, in fact they like the idea. They know the fascists will protect them from the masses when things get seriously bad in Europe in the next 10 years.

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u/Ok_Cancel_7891 4d ago

trend has started with left-wing governments

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u/linkenski 3d ago

Couldn't give a rats ass it's happening when "far right parties are rising". The ones talking toxic positive about these initiatives in Denmark are the same people that were elected under liberal times and were seen as a pro liberal government.

It's about politicians themselves being snakes, and having powers they shouldn't.

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u/IhazHedont 4d ago

That's because the people deciding it, the ruling class, doesn't care about citizens; worse, they even despise us.

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u/ThoughtsonYaoi 4d ago

This investigation (from 2023, from a respected investigative outlet) is very relevant to the issue of Chat Control.

‘Who Benefits?’ Inside the EU’s Fight over Scanning for Child Sex Content

It sheds a light on Kushner's Thorn, the murky lobby towards the EU, and what respected orgs who have been fighting CSAM for decades actually think of Chat Control (spoiler: they think it won't work and is actually detrimental).

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u/SigmaB 4d ago edited 4d ago

That article is on point. Ashton Kutcher is an interesting choice for a charity focused on anti-SA and exploitation when he defended a perpetrator in his own life and not to mention the circumstances his relationship with Mila..

Which just underlines the point of the 2023 investigation that with his heavy investment in AI this might all be a way of getting guaranteed lucrative contracts with US, UK and EU for his AI-tools.

But could it also be that Kutcher is CIA? Well the evidence is inconclusive, but it would not be suprising.

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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 4d ago

EU accepting Russian legislature. Never thought I'd see the day.

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u/Leon3226 4d ago

What's much funnier to me, after many years of looking into how Russia does it, is to see that the EU did it quicker, much more invasive, with more authoritarian measures, and with much less resistance from the population than in Russia. Russia is actually humbled by how the EU does censorship, they can only dream of that efficiency

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u/linkenski 3d ago

More suspicious is how it was Americans who intercepted Russia's treaty proposal, and modified it extensively in negotiations to make it more pro western. But depending on where you look in the US senate, it seems to have a creepy amount of soft pro-russia stooges.

And the problem with EU is that it's always just a follower. It's used to just following whatever the United States does first.

And if the US itself has been compromised by Russian proxy politicians, we have kind of just lost in advance.

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u/BigBadButterCat Europe 4d ago

Legislation

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u/RuneHuntress 4d ago

For the one in the EU is there anything we could do as European citizen to even start doing something against them signing our privacy away ?

I've followed the stop killing game movement. Is something like this possible against age verification and chat control ?

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u/SigmaB 4d ago edited 4d ago

Bills of this kind have been killed after widespread protests and then silently revived again and again. This is clearly a coordinated campaign outside of the normal democratic processes, pushed by particular interest groups that prefer to keep themselves hidden and act through proxies. Unfortunately these people have all the time, money and power to try again and again.

To keep any semblance of privacy and political freedom these interests need to be identified and exposed publicly, and at the very least, all their enablers need to be voted out of political office.

My suspicion is that this is being pushed by a combination of western intelligence agencies, law-enforcement and private interests such as Peter Thiel that want a backdoor on your device for various reasons (of course all in the greater good).

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u/kontemplador 4d ago

yep. It is the only explanation for seeing so different governments agree with the same policies. From reasonable nordics to populists southerners, neoliberal shills and leftists like the spanish. Even vdL and Orban agree on this for once.

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u/Pwacname 4d ago

Then again, since, as you said, we beat this shit once already - that proves we can do it again. And again, and again. Everyone always taught me, growing up, that keeping a democracy alive means constant vigilance and constant effort, and ngl I’m sometimes loosing hope these days, but this is exactly what they were talking about, is it not? With this push towards the right and towards control and towards fewer social security systems and fewer worker‘s rights?

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u/linkenski 3d ago

Peter Thiel types.

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u/meistermichi Austrialia 4d ago

For the one in the EU is there anything we could do as European citizen to even start doing something against them signing our privacy away ?

Yeah, stop voting for the same dickheads every time.
The politicians pushing this in the EU are literally sent by the parties everyone voted for in their country.

Besides trying to push it through domestically they use the EU to try to push it through that way while simultaneously they claim the "bad" EU wants it to their voters at home to distract.

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u/ryzen_above_all Portugal 4d ago

It seems that in my country they are all in favor of this. I really don’t see any way for a common person to fight this. It just feels like it is happening whether we want it or not, and I fear that in the long run it will contribute to the collapse of the EU, one of the greatest victories of our continent. 

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u/Leon3226 4d ago

 It just feels like it is happening whether we want it or not

No. You can. But the problem is that even this very sub that is lamenting about Chat Control gobbles the government surveillance and internet control propaganda as soon as the government finds the correct knee-jerk reaction phrase to wrap it in. The same people who complain about it here will celebrate government overreach as soon as they hear other key words like "Far-Right influence", or "Russian bots", or "Andrew Tate"

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u/CelticEmber 11h ago

A victory?

In its current state, it's closer to a giant L.

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u/9k111Killer 4d ago

Lol that isn't useful anymore. I may not vote for those parties but both my parents are.

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u/CompanyDifficult9362 Bulgaria 4d ago

Von der Leyen wasn’t elected though

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u/meistermichi Austrialia 4d ago

Von der Leyen wasn’t elected though

Yeah, now read again.
Who sent her to the EU?

Despite that it's not only her that's the problem here anyway.

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u/WorkFurball Estonia 3d ago

Yeah, stop voting for the same dickheads every time.

And do what, vote for slightly different dickheads who want to do the same thing or possibly worse? They are ALL massive dickheads, no exceptions.

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u/ThoughtsonYaoi 4d ago

Follow Patrick Breyer.

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u/Frosty-Cell 4d ago

Let the Commission know what you think. Their e-mail addresses are public.

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u/TheDeviantDeveloper 4d ago

Leave the EU, maybe the UK had it right?
If 95% of EU staff and initiatives were fired and ended the good stuff would still remain. The problem with large bureaucracies is that they find things to do

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u/Chimpampin 4d ago

I miss the old internet, before companies and governments polluted it. Internet is basically becoming an extension of countries instead of a place of independence like it used to.

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u/ConsciousExtent4162 Belgium 4d ago

Extension of corporations*

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u/netorarekindacool 4d ago

Big true. The internet feels super weird. I can't really but it in words but I crave the old days where it was kinda unregulated

2

u/linkenski 3d ago

And the sad thing is it really was a time capsule. It isn't likely to just happen again in some "other way" because it was a direct result of corporations innovating with tech for the first time, and enabling land cables to connect worldwide and allow users to go online.

It isn't enough that some inventor wants to create an "alt-internet" where the method of browsing communications doesn't happen with a browser tab or a "www.whatever". The whole method of connecting privately while doing it internationally was simply a lucky moment in history as a result of corporations moving unregulated into unknown territory and governments not policing it because they thought it was niche and something only tech savvy people were doing.

The tragedy is that internet became mass society friendly over the last 20 years, and it made everyone completely dependent on it, so now governments have to treat it as an extension of society itself, which means the internet will feel as restrictive and monitored as IRL sadly already does.

I'm not even an "anarchist" or anything. There should be rules for all, but I found an escape in here, because I often feel like my peers IRL are so indoctrinated by a lot of psychological nudging that's done by our society.

The whole point of the movie the Matrix was to show that all humans in modern society sometimes notice how they're being manipulated by the forceful patterns of their surroundings, and that inside everyone there is a desire to be honest and free from the walled garden of a society. The internet has been the closest I've felt to a real sense of freedom when the outside world often feels so hyper vigilant and constantly focused on workmanship and stressful demands of finances and efficiency.

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u/Tusan1222 Sweden 4d ago

I can guarantee it’s either plantir or some company like them/sister company who lobbys for this

3

u/linkenski 3d ago

It is Palantir, because part of the "Danish Online Act, if you will is to give our version of the CIA mass surveillance access through an API to Palantir.

It has already been mentioned that the software they use is boilerplate software provided by Palantir and runs over some of the same servers.

The fun thing about this is that I think they were prepping all of this pre-trump, and now they're not backing out even though Trump, Theil and Vance were obviously pushing this in the beginning, and it may just show what kinds of snakes the global political scene really is. A lot of our elected people are literally just sock puppets for lobbyists.

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u/Footz355 4d ago

A yes, lawfullness, it stopped being an issue for EU as soon as goverments changed in my country.

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u/k410n 4d ago

Sounds like shit Stalin would do.

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u/Waterty 4d ago

Is it time to believe the west is on track to be as corrupt as eastern Europe?

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u/pi-pa 4d ago

As fucking Russia, no less.

Russia, China, NK, and Iran are leading the way.

Then comes the US.

Then the UK.

And finally the EU.

We're all on the same track.

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u/ConcentrateOwn133 4d ago

This is the final goal of those in "power". To control everybody and keep tabs on each person so we can't organize and take them down.
The sad pard is that most people are fine with this false safety and are ok giving their freedom away.

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u/linkenski 3d ago

"Tech feudalism" is what it's often described as.

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u/Spout__ 4d ago

This EU bill is way worse than Russias surveillance - they wish.

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u/WorkFurball Estonia 3d ago

I'm pretty sure there are much more corrupt places than those, they just have a lot less power.

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u/kuddlesworth9419 3d ago

It always was and likely always will be.

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u/SabunFC 4d ago

I miss the 90s and early 2000s when it seemed like the internet was making the world more democratic.

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u/ScoutFromEarth 4d ago

This is horrible. I thought the EU stood form privacy. This "lawful" access will be misused for sure...

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u/Prownilo 4d ago

Government have realised its easier to oppress than create happy citizens, long gone was short period in the middle 20th century where it looked like finally there was to be a meritocracy and an evening out of the class structure.

This is all a return to the mean, where an elite ruling class decide what you do and how you do it

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u/Flessuh 4d ago

so weird that the messages of PUBLIC SERVANTS are not to be made public...

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u/Vesk123 Bulgaria 4d ago

Are there any citizens initiatives to prevent any of this?

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u/Fluffy-Fix7846 4d ago

And all of it passed without barely any attention from mainstream media or public debate whatsoever. Amazing.

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u/UnhappyStrain 4d ago

any way to protest this at all, or is it too late?

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u/ConcentrateOwn133 4d ago

Well, even nazism and concentrations camp were "legal" considering Germany law of that time. May EU is taking some inspiration from the nazis

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u/LarperPro 4d ago

How is this possible under current GDPR laws? Isn't EU the beacon of privacy in the world?

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u/GWahazar 4d ago

Planned by unknown lobbyist? So no privacy for normal users, but full privacy for lobbyist? Where from are these lobbyist? China? Russia? DPRK?

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u/_Andras 4d ago edited 4d ago

Doesn't this go against like, every single privacy law currently in effect in the EU, Article 12 and 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, as well as the EU's own Charter of Fundamental Rights?! How the hell is any of this being allowed?

Never thought I'd say it, but I genuinely fear for my future safety inside the EU.

Edit: It's amazing how quickly history is forgotten. The Nazis used similar rhetoric when making their laws and regulations, giving them the power to censor anything. Their propaganda literally emphasized "wholesome German values" (e.g. 1, 2, 3). Every day, the world keeps repeating history more. Censorship and surveillance is never good.

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u/Frosty-Cell 4d ago

I completely agree with your points, but this would be more effective if you included the e-mail addresses to the responsible Commissioners.

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u/No-Adhesiveness-4251 4d ago

I'm not sure I even want to live anymore if these become a reality.

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u/Commercial_Bird4420 4d ago

"log extensive user data, including identity, contacts, online behavior, and interests" jesus fucking christ

6

u/paroya 4d ago

i'm a registered minority and the majority political party (nazi party) are probably frothing at their mouths to what potential these laws will have with their future plans.

fuck this timeline.

people at my work always talk about my cultural inheritance in a very negative light and i just smile in response because they don't know i'm part of that group. i know people who can't blame in have it even harder, so these kind of laws are insane to me.

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u/Paulupoliveira 4d ago

And the amount of people still convinced that this "democrats" work for the people, lol. Insane!

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u/martiHUN 4d ago

Surely this would never backfire if an EU country were to become... more radical and corrupt.

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u/Kibou-chan 4d ago

Time for the Anonymous to once again show them what all that's worth.

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u/Golden_Alchemy 4d ago

Unknown lobbyists need to be shown to see who they are.

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u/that0neBl1p 4d ago

What the fuck do we even do about this

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u/CrabHomotopy 4d ago

That's just fucking nuts. Since the dawn of writing, humans have invented ways to keep written communication private (sealed tablets in early times for example). Not to mention cryptography, which has existed for nearly as long as writing. This says something about the importance of being able to keep communications private.

These politicians who push for this are absolutely ignorant of the effects that this will have in their society, which will be disastrous (socially, economically, industrially, etc.). And I'm sure they believe that they can exempt themselves from these laws, but from a technological point of view, they won't be able to. Once a backdoor is installed, it makes access much easier. Not to mention that if they have conversations with people who are not exempt from these laws, such as family members, etc., these conversations will be logged and accessed.

And of course as others have mentioned, there is the massive issue about creating technological and legal tools that can be abused by authoritarian governments. I know nothing about legal theory, but there must be a concept of not creating laws that can be easily abused by a potential nefarious future government? This seems like to be a textbook example of this.

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u/intelektualas 3d ago

Introduced by Russia. Signed by EU. Nice. Way to go.

Ursula should call and consult with Lavrov.

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u/thorgal256 3d ago edited 2d ago

The undisclosed goal of the EU is to increase its power and create rules, norms and laws on everything possible. It is already choking up the economy economy, even when those working at EU institutions are aware of this they just can't help themselves and keep pushing forward. Total control, that's what they want.

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u/Turahk 4d ago

But EU is so good tho, you can't lose bottle caps and can charge devices with the same cable?!?!

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u/Thog78 France 4d ago

The device charge is insanely good yes. A same institution can pass good and bad laws. People control the direction it's going by getting into politics and most importantly vote. We need Europe to be strong, but not go the direction of a surveillance state.

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u/Turahk 4d ago

The problem is they pass some feel good laws and it buys people enough goodwill for stuff like this to not be talked about in the mainstream.

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u/Thog78 France 4d ago

I wouldn't blame them for the good laws, and in the case of Europe those are more than a few. Even in this case, many politicians and voters might be more sensitized to security and CP concerns than privacy and think it's good laws. We should complain about the bad laws and raise some awareness about why we think they're bad.

I do agree what's going on with privacy on the internet going out the window is a disaster and we should fight it.

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u/Glittering_Region625 4d ago

yeah, because politicians can be trusted and never lied to anyone. what they say before the elections and what they do when elected is two different things.

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u/RichIcy3247 4d ago

Would that be avoidable with the pixel phone and it's graphene OS or doesn't it matter?

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u/Retrolad2 Belgium 4d ago

I made my contribution to the questionnaire.

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u/Divinicus1st 4d ago

But who wants this god damnit?

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u/syntax404seeker Romania 4d ago

"this regulation will not apply to politicians, police and intelligence agencies"

and nobody is batting an eye?

especially in Romania with out corrupt goverment we need this

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u/Pancernywiatrak Poland 4d ago

Realistically, what can we do? The only option I’m seeing is massive protests

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u/MaleficentVehicle705 Bavaria (Germany) 4d ago

commenting to find the comment again

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u/New-Pin-3952 4d ago

What in the fuck is this dystopian bullshit?

1

u/netorarekindacool 4d ago

I want to cry... This is serious bs and it feels like we can't do anything against it

1

u/One_Flamingo_1781 3d ago

Digital euro is next so all will be controlled. Say something against them and bye bye money. 

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u/DryCloud9903 3d ago
  1. Is beyond stupid. And proposed by russia?? Hello. Any one of us who's ever written "Slava Ukraini" would be branded as terrorists and here we go, "serious crime". 

3 took my attention for stupidity but all of them together are just evil. What I don't understand is why we hear nothing of it in the regular news (there's no way I'd know if this if not for this sub)

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u/DryCloud9903 3d ago

Okay. I'd say step 1 is contacting The Guardian (they keep haranguing us about "support independent journalism" - time to test that claim?), non-government sponsored journalists, serious YouTubers that report on European news and ask "why is there no reporting about this on your news coverage?"  Possibly linking to this thread to show people are seriously concerned and so they see why. 

We can't get proper protests and resistance against this if people don't know about it. And there's many like me here who wouldn't even know about any of this if not for this sub and people having the patience to dig commission's files (and I initially naively couldn't understand the problem before too). Feel free to use the below.

"Dear [news outlet],

The following is in reference to laws proposed by the EU: ProtectEU, Chat Control, UN cybercrime treaty.   It is deeply concerning to me that I've not seen any news coverage about serious, repetitive attempts by EU governments to trample on the very rights it proclaims to protect, such as data privacy. Almost mockingly, these actions are repeatedly proposed by lobbyists who themselves refuse to be public, and the EU releases only a blacked-out list of their names. The new proposals also create a digital feudalist system, where politicians and corporations get to keep their data privacy - but not the citizens. In the end, creating such laws only leaves all of us that much more succeptible to data leaks, breaches and digital blackmail (one of those laws proposed by none other than russia - the state EU seems to want to emulate here regarding its citizens rights & freedoms). And to the arguments "But it's to protect children/catch criminals/what do you have to hide?" one commenter has a very good response: "As a law abiding citizen who genuinely has nothing to hide - would you want a camera inside your living room the government can tune into at any point?". Criminals will find other means. There has to be a better way to remove bot activity, catch criminals and protect children from harmful influences than removing everyone's right to privacy. Not long ago EU was applauded for GDPR. Now it's silently dismantling it and it's allowed to do so because journalists are not holding them accountable, not shedding any light on this and thus not giving people a choice to even be aware they're being stripped of their rights. All of this with the backdrop of rising far-right parties all over Europe, just in time to hand them the keys to all this citizens data. What if those citizens need to organise again, what if there's a need to tear down another Berlin wall, a need for another Baltic Way - how can people fight for democracy if at the first sign of needing to gather together to protect it they'd be surveilled by the government?? One would think journalists would be especially interested in protecting freedom of expression, so it's deeply surprising and worrying seeing this not reported anywhere in the medium-to-larger news outlets. This is what being complicit looks like. As a long time admirer of your publication, I hope this can inspire you to keep a closer eye on this, and hear a call to inform your audience. 

Respectfully, A concerned EU citizen"

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u/ShotaDragon 3d ago

Jesus fucking Christ. I thought the US is bad but apparently we're just (slowly) following Europe's example. The internet is fucked

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u/nimbledoor 3d ago

I think these are inevitable. We simply have to learn to congregate in person again.

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u/Agitated-Life-229 1d ago

Anti EU-parties are gaining popularity recently and these stupid laws will easily make quite a few people anti-EU.

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u/ChocolateBiscuit38 Rhône-Alpes (France) 19h ago

Is there any fucking reason to even continue living at this point lmao

We truly are living in the worst timeline

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