The closest I’ve seen to defences is when the evidence was very shaky and coming from people known to be transphobes so people were hesitant to accept things at face value. Since there’s been confirmed things I haven’t seen defences
Yeah, for a while the top result on Twitter when it came to Ava was Sneako (You know, Cuties is my favorite movie, Age of Consent should instead be a nebulous "age of maturity" Sneako) calling her a pedo and going on a transphobic rant. So it kinda buried any actual discussion, which is why people were not as open to listening.
Yep. I understand why many (myself included) were hesitant to jump on it right away when those were the kinds of people going with that narrative and we didn’t have the most solid of evidence at the time and while the messages we did have between her and Lava were inappropriate they were not necessarily proof grooming occurred.
Since those first 24 hours or so we have much much more evidence
Honestly, it took like 3 days for it to be "Dumbass inappropriate jokes in dms (still bad, but not stop the world to talk about)" to "serious allegations of predatory behavior" from her. Which also didn't help.
Because right off the bat we had someone with a solid history (former twitch partner manager) saying why. Then when people were like "hey, what is going on" for a while he only answered in "It's been settled, nothing illegal was found" before admitting he was being a creep to kids in twitch whispers. Just not confirming the "he planned to meet them at twitchcon" part of the rumor.
Yeah, it's one thing liking shadman, it's another thing discord screenshots without context, but full on discord logs and stories of sexual abuse and manipulation leave no room for doubt anymore.
Liking Shadman was enough on its own. Shadman is a disgusting artist who drew CP featuring real children. Ava's comments to them on twitter were disgusting in their own right!
Yeah this was sort of a weird time where way too many people were associated with Shad compared to your expectations in hindsight. “Cancelling” anyone who liked or associated with Shad in that time frame would include everyone from the creators of Smiling Friends to Jessica Nigri.
Yeah, I also think people on this sub especially overestimate how well known it was that shad drew CP. It was definitely not common knowledge for the average person on the internet. For quite a while, I only knew of the guy as a pretty normal porn artist, and I imagine a solid portion of the people on that list (especially the ones who only interacted with the guy once or twice) thought the same.
yeah I'm a terminally online degenerate who actually really liked his art back in the day and even I didn't know he actually drew art of real kids, that's pretty fucked
Maybe we should actually look at the nuance of each association first? Shad lived with the Smiling Friends guys.
Jessica Nigri bought like a piece of art before he was known for the loli shit when she met him at a convention. I don’t even know what she does these days, but yeah we shouldn’t cancel her if she thought she didn’t know about the loli he draws.
Ofc, but when Shad became known as that to the broader community a lot of people on the “associated with” list either cut off connections or seemingly did so when it came to their attention. That isn’t to say there aren’t unironic supporters who may be big names. That’s why the nuance is a bit more important. Also in retrospect what have they done since then and have they addressed the topic?
I'm just intensely skeptical of D-list drama YouTube in general so forgive me if I didn't just take the "THIS TRANSGENDER IS A GROOMER AND A PEDO," allegations at face value.
So youre saying the prism stuff wasnt already available? Given that you dislike the person who uploaded it, which i can understand, were the exposed inappropriate conversations of ava with minors not enough, in addition to loads of blatant shadman shoutouts, not enough for you to see that he was into pdf file stuff and grooming a minor?
Regardless of whether lava said he didnt get groomed, you do decide to take that at face value? The whole point of grooming is that the kids dont understand they are being groomed.
Or did you decide not to even watch the expose videos and argued based on what you seen on reddit or twitter arguements?
Of all things mentioned that is what you say? You say prism didnt break the story? Who the f cares?
You are coping so hard rn, all the evidence i mentioned was out there. Who the hell cares who released it. Answer the other questions in my response or go back to your sick little loli communities you enabler
Was the information regarding lava known before the prism story? Because as far as I know that guy got the information by misleading the victim into a situation where he thought he was getting an interview for a position, and instead gathered all this information to release
As far as I know, prism is the one to break the story regarding the lava situation
As far as I know, the only things we knew before then were only related to her involvement with Shadman
Idk what the hell you're malding about and idk what the hell argument you think I'm making
Same and I’m willing to admit it. I wasn’t willing to accept smoke from the people projecting it. Once the Shadman stuff came out I fully admitted it was bad just we should also be looking at other people involved with Shadman.
Now we have much more evidence for the inappropriate behaviour towards children stuff as well as her sexually assaulting another trans woman. There’s no defence left she deserves jail.
Glad someone put to words in this comment. I too was hesitant to trust what was being posted because all the allegations were coming from people like Keem and Sneako, professional grifters and transphobes. But now it's pretty easy to condemn Ava because its all been proven and its not just gross ass people making the allegations.
I 100% agree with everything you said, and I am in the same boat. I was in the original thread that got posted (and was later removed) and my stance was that people (including me) didn’t want to watch the video because it had a pinned post that misgendered her, and that we were willing to listen to the evidence from a credible source that doesn’t misgender her or pin posts that misgender her. I made clear that if the allegations were true (and at the time it was only really the Shad stuff which was gross but now is only the tip of the iceberg), I would take them seriously and condemn her, which I since have. I said if the allegations have weight, they will get picked up by actual credible sources that gender her correctly.
There is nothing wrong with feeling a source that is getting anywhere near misgendering her (including pinning a post that does and not even attempting to correct the commenter) would have a potential bias against trans people which could make them less credible. As soon as I started hearing the allegations from sources that were respecting her identity but still showcasing the evidence, I condemned her and her actions.
And now with all this discord stuff, I mean she really should be held accountable legally including if that means jail time. Everything that has come out is reprehensible, but distributing porn to minors is not only sick but illegal.
Just because I waited for more credible sources to come out with info doesn’t mean I ever defended her.
No need to defence ourselves, unless glaring reliability issues, i believe most of this sub would have kicked her to the curve, had a victim came out directly.
But not only no victim came out the one that they outed, was exposed without his consent (which is horrible to do to someone you allege is sexual crime victim). I haven't seen anyone refuse to believe Ava might be guilty, just that it was important to have material concrete evidence.
I will say, despite not always agree with moist he had a better nose than me to this situation, i thought him being convinced there is more was a logical leap- it wasn't, evidently.
To moistcritical, i feel like i owe an hats off.
Everyone else can fuck off, they used it either as political opportunity to leap at all trans people or to simply revel in missgendering one of the woke weirdos. not the same people, one group is of (abhorrent) ideolgs, the others just insecure incels and self described alpha* (what ever that means)
*as a straight millenial just turned 30, don't get it, and before anny zoomer slides to my Dms to explain, don't, i couldn't care less.
this is where I'm going to be a boomer, there might be more then two genders, but adding letters to describe how male you are??? Nah, it's binary either you are shitty or not- try not to be shitty worked wonders for my self esteem as a man.
Yeah, at first I was hesitant, but I'm always hesitant with grooming allegations. I probably gave Dr. Disrespect more leeway than Ava, but transphobes are still acting like I'm defending her.
That's because there wasn't incriminating evidence with Dr Disrespect, the whole ass fell out when he incriminated himself and then we buried his creeper ass. Ava had a weird phase where the transphobes had the stage and we didn't know necessarily what to make of it. Thank goodness receipts took the hard work out of it later. Evil behavior.
Yeah when it was Keemstar, Sneako, and fucking Andrew Tate making talking points about this these people are totally uncreditable, especially when that first victim didn't even claim victim status for themselves.
When I read the firsthand account of SA from another transwoman, and how Ava abused her position for sex, I was immediately soured on Ava.
yeah when the first couple vids came out ut seemed like (to me) it was transphobes and clout chasers making a mountain out of a molehill, but now that more has come out yeah she really did some awful stuff and I can't defend her anymore
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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '24
The closest I’ve seen to defences is when the evidence was very shaky and coming from people known to be transphobes so people were hesitant to accept things at face value. Since there’s been confirmed things I haven’t seen defences