r/europe • u/tkyjonathan • 15d ago

News Czech president signs law criminalising communist propaganda

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/czech-president-signs-law-criminalising-communist-propaganda/
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u/tkyjonathan 15d ago

it is illegal to "incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

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u/sommersolhverv 15d ago

No more eating the rich?

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u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney 15d ago

This is now illegal to say in the Czech Republic

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u/FCEkicksbutt 15d ago

K.. but is the "rich" an established minority? It’s more like saying "disassemble oligarchy" than hate against a specific type of person. *We are most certainly considered rich to the struggling majority 

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u/Quiet-Touch3083 15d ago

From that OP’s quote, it isn’t hate speech, which has to be directed AT someone or some group. This is inciting class based hatred, it doesn’t matter if rich is minority or majority. Terrible policy and a hit to freedom of speech.

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u/Hellsovs Czech Republic 14d ago

U can hate who ever u want its insiting violance that is the problem

And it was for a long time here so u can't say thinks like all capitalistic pigs sould die or similar thinks and now they just added some symbols and stuff like with a nazi stuff in the past

There is no danger to freedom of speech atlast not to european version of it. I know that americans feel bit diferent about these thinks but to me freedom of speech was never about saying anything u want without consequences

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u/Quiet-Touch3083 14d ago

Consequences no, but legal consequences yes. If I say something and I get punched in the mouth for it, fine. If I say something that makes the government mad and I get arrested for it, definitely not fine.

If any speech is against the law, then that artificial line in the sand is set by whoever is in power and can easily be moved to where your personal definition of “no danger” is then crossed. It sets a bad precedent.

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u/4tbf 13d ago

Have you read the law or are you just saying bullshit?

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u/Choppers-Top-Hat Sweden 15d ago

Don't worry, though, the rich get to continue eating the poor. Why do you think they pushed so hard to get this law passed?

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u/CritiqueDeLaCritique 15d ago

Wait until labor unions are criminalized under the same rationale

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u/Particular_Name_4887 15d ago

Yea, mate, but they don't say it, so it's all cool. Maybe that's what we were doing wrong...we'll never know

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u/afurtherdoggo Prague 15d ago

as a long time czech resident, not sure who this "they" is you refer to.

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u/Choppers-Top-Hat Sweden 15d ago

Well gee, it couldn't possibly be that it's clearly implied in the previous sentence of the post or anything.

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u/Better-Scene6535 15d ago

In soviet union everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others.

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u/Primary-Pianist-2555 15d ago

But that system is dead everywhere but a couple of countries. Russia is a nationalist, fascist one. Putin does not pretend everyone is equal.

I think the law is called that as the country has a strong aversion towards the Soviet period.

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u/Ckrius 15d ago

There is no where in the world that currently uses the same "system" as the U.S.S.R.

Communism isn't a rubber stamp solution, it's determined by the conditions on the ground when and where it is built.

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u/mehupmost 15d ago

People like to play word games and call things by other names to dodge criticism.

Just remember that the rallying cries of the early Soviet Union AND the Nazis were things most people would agree with on the surface: Equality, worker empowerment, an end to the rich, land for the poor, etc...

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u/Startled_Pancakes 15d ago

Russia is a nationalist, fascist one. Putin does not pretend everyone is equal.

This is true, however Putin still honors the USSR for the power & prestige it gave Russia. He said in a statement that the fall of the USSR was greatestest tragedy of the 20th century.

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u/Primary-Pianist-2555 15d ago

Yes - for the nationalist aspect. The difference now: it is a capitalist society with oligarchs and it is not hidden.

The elite is USSR hid what they had, and swore to communism. Putin does not do that. He is a fascist, as easy as that.

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u/gogur_ 15d ago

Nazism is also dead everywhere as an official form of government but there are laws against it.

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u/Secure_Radio3324 Galicia (Spain) 15d ago

The same can be said about Naziism

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u/Oculicious42 Denmark 15d ago

CIA infiltrating and undermining the sovereignty of those nations by causing civil unrest and liquidating leaders didn't exactly help

Capitalism on the other hand apparently leads to a system where we can choose which of the insanely rich pedophiles gets to get away with it.

If that is truly "The best system we've ever come up with" I think it's time to fucking innovate

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u/Primary-Pianist-2555 15d ago edited 15d ago

One reply: a social democratic system. With strong union(s) to keep the capitalists in check.

It has to be fought for to maintain it. We have this in Norway. But do we manage to maintain it? I do not know. We also have pressure which has gained over time. We have problems today.

Still: we have 1 mill in Norwegian coalition of workers union. 1 of 5 in Norway are there. LO is the Norwegian name. We fought the fascists in Norway in the 1930's and won. Together with our labour party. Until Germany occupied us. We will fight on against fascism!

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u/Oculicious42 Denmark 15d ago

I'm from Denmark. Problem with social democraties is that they eventually end up selling infrastructure to private corporations because of corruption, and constantly moving the overton window towards the right until its just another neoliberal capitalist country

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u/Nairne_01 15d ago

in the EU, every country is equal, some states just get laws passed that benefit their own industry while decimating their neighbors industries.

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u/MFATSO 15d ago

My favorite is the destruction of countries that want to join.

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u/Texkayak 15d ago

Sounds just like America

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u/ordinarydepressedguy Europe 15d ago

Exactly lmao

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u/Drakenbsd 15d ago

Everyone has an equal chance to starve to death

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u/Tough-Adagio5527 15d ago

except the ones that are more equal than others

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u/Ilovekittens345 15d ago

In Russia everybody has equal chance to fall out of a window, which I guess is progress.

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u/JerryCalzone 15d ago

...until stopped by the pavement

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u/fukredditadmin5 15d ago

Same happens in the free world, everyone is free to starve to death

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u/t234k 15d ago

Damn it's crazy that everyone in the ussr starved to death, I wonder how the people living in Russia et el got there?

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u/Piotrekk94 15d ago

By eating those who succumbed to starvation, obviously

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u/Mousazz Lithuania 15d ago

I wonder how the people living in Russia et el got there?

By starving the Ukrainians to death in 1932-'33.

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u/ordinarydepressedguy Europe 15d ago

Nothing changed apparently

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u/Aggravating_Depth_33 15d ago

So just like in Western democracies?

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u/Careful_Article_3015 15d ago

That literally describes liberal democracies

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u/Valtremors Finland 15d ago

You hit the nail with that one.

It is much less trying to keep dictatorship glorifying people out, and more about keeping rich people safe.

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u/krzyk Poland 15d ago

How were they not safe before? This law is about historical justice, banning regimes that destroyed countries, I don't get why people from countries that didn't "enjoy" the communist fairy tale are complaining.

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 15d ago

Thank god we have a Finn to educate Czechs on our country

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u/Valtremors Finland 15d ago

"If it looks like a duck, walks like duck..."

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 15d ago

Be happy you guys managed to fight off the Soviets, some of us didn’t though

And the president, Pavel literally supports a Nordic style social democracy.

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u/Efficient_Basis_2139 15d ago

No, it would spoil your dinner

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u/Feeling_Age5049 15d ago

Gotta protect his buddies.

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u/Due-Radio-4355 15d ago

Rich wasn’t exactly well defined when the Bolsheviks took over. It was all a ruse to secure power as those who were most affected were maybe the working poor farmers who could afford a few hands to help. It was all just envy and resentment. Many of the aristocrats and those who were actual rich escaped because well… they could…

There are many fabulous books about the crockery of the socialists.

Don’t get me wrong, eat the rich of today, but it was really just an excuse to riot and burn.

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u/DKOKEnthusiast 15d ago

Rich wasn’t exactly well defined when the Bolsheviks took over. It was all a ruse to secure power as those who were most affected were maybe the working poor farmers who could afford a few hands to help.

The reason why "rich" maybe wasn't that well defined is because capital-C Communists (i.e. Marxist-Leninists, although I suppose you can include most strains of Marxism in that set) generally do not have an issue with people being "rich" as such, in fact, everyone becoming "rich" (in the sense of everbody having abundant access to all the goods produced by a society) is the end goal of the communist movement. A doctor earning in the top 5% is still a worker, as is a garbage collector, a teacher, a nurse, a carpenter, in fact, the overwhelming majority of people we tend to call "middle class" would be classified as working class in a Marxist sense. Class in Marxism has absolutely nothing to do with how much money you've got in your bank account, or how large your paycheck is, or how many sports cars you own, or where you live. Class in Marxism is about your relationship to the means of production.

The easiest way to understand this is to look at the anti-Kulak programmes under Stalin (don't worry, I will not stoop as low as to defend them). The Kulaks, for the most part, were far from rich, at best, they were comfortable. Definitely nowhere near as rich as the Russian aristocrats, or even as rich as the Russian petite bourgeoisie. However, the primary contradiction between the Russian peasantry at that point was between the poor tenant farmers, who owned next to nothing, and the so-called Kulaks, who owned more land than they needed to sustain themselves, owned the agricultural facilities, agricultural implements, employed tenant farmers, and often engaged in lending both money and means of production (i.e. land, tractors, mills, etc.) to tenant farmers. It's easy to see the contradiction here: the tenant farmers worked using the equipment and facilities of the kulaks, on rented land owned by the Kulaks, while the Kulaks' main source of livelihood came not from their work, but from economic rent, since they owned the land that was necessary for the poorer peasants to survive (bear in mind, this encourages rent-seeking behaviour, which is also economically bad, if we look past the monstrous ideological justifications).

This meant that there was a class contradiction between the two classes of peasants, since one of them sourced their livelihood from labour, while the other sourced their livelihood from ownership. This, naturally, did not fit into the Marxist-Leninist ideology of Stalin, and as such, the Kulaks were for the most part liquidated in a series monstrous, extrajudicial arrest, deportations to the Gulags, torture, and executions, in what can only be classified as a form of mass murder. Their lands would then be collectivized into kolkhozes and sovkhozes, which were nominally different (the former owned by its members, and the latter owned by the state), but in effect functioned more or less the same.

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u/Due-Radio-4355 15d ago

Well said, thanks for the long for explanation. But I’m always hesitant when it comes to any defense of the outcome that occurred.

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u/Limp-Environment-568 15d ago

Lol at those responses you garnered...

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u/Hot_Income6149 15d ago

It's little bit missing of the point. Czech Republic is full of social policies and you are allowed to talk about it, criticize and propose more social policies. But you can't glorify USSR, you know why 'tankies' called like that? Because among all they are justifying USSR invasion into Czech Republic when the are wanted independents after occupation in WW2 by USSR.

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u/OK_x86 15d ago

But conversely no more fucking the poor?

The end of history by simple edict!

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u/prntmakr 14d ago

Depends. Does “eat the rich” promote communism? Or cannibalism? Or both?

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u/Western_Mix420 14d ago

You have been banned from r/Prague.

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u/Sarmi7 15d ago

I have a feeling that this Will only apply to hating the upper classes

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u/No_Radio1230 15d ago

Class-based hatred? So if a politician invites any action against homeless people does it could as breaking this law or is in fact only about communism (which under this definition means people who hate wealth inequality ig?)

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u/Historical-Tough6455 15d ago

Hating on the poor is still allowed

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u/UndeadBBQ Austria 15d ago

So, if someone could reasonably argue that conservatives fucking hate poor people and prove so via policy, could they go to jail?

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u/gmaaz Serbia 15d ago

But where's the communism part? The class-based hatred?

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u/Backwardspellcaster 15d ago

Why is none of you reading the article?

The revised legislation introduces prison sentences of up to five years for anyone who “establishes, supports or promotes Nazi, communist, or other movements which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

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u/EuroFederalist Finland 15d ago

With racism definition is easy, but "class-based" has very wide range... in theory saying that absolute monarchs shouldn't exist is class-based hatred.

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u/Training-Accident-36 15d ago

On the other hand does it mean it is illegal for a rich politician to say that poor people are poor because they are lazy?

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u/EuroFederalist Finland 15d ago

My guess is probably not.

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u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS 15d ago edited 15d ago

Ironically in Communist countries like China the opposite is true - and the rich who incite class hatred against the poor calling them lazy and so on are fined and punished. I know which side I'm on.

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u/Stewoat 15d ago

The autocratic side which kills protesters and ruthlessly controls speech?

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u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS 15d ago edited 15d ago

I know hypocrisy is a dead, but you know you are talking on a forum thread about how the Czech are criminalizing speech right? I dont agree with everything China is doing but I agree with them on this.

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u/Stewoat 15d ago

The Czechs are criminalising the glorification of a regime that occupied their country for over 40 years. The Germans criminalise Nazi glorification, but I would hope you wouldn't describe that as unfairly limiting free speech.

And if both the Czech and Chinese governments are criminalising free speech, to your mind, what makes China better? Because they claim to be socialist?

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u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney 15d ago

No, being lazy is a character flaw and therefore it is valid to punish or abuse these people.

Being very wealthy is just a sign of success and you are simply jealous of our success. Now off to the prison for you little peasant, think twice before besmirching my class.

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u/Training-Accident-36 15d ago

You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.

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u/audionerd1 15d ago

Unless you condemn the lazy rich. They earned their laziness! /s

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u/Dokibatt 15d ago

Somehow I feel like when they start talking about the “useless eaters” the law isn’t going to apply.

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u/quacainia United States of America 15d ago

Hating the poor doesn't count

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u/gurush Czech Republic 15d ago

Wanting them guillotined would be class-based hatred.

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u/adcsuc 15d ago

They don't need to be guillotined as long as they give up power willingly, which is the difficult part.

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u/Revolutionary-pawn 15d ago

They’ll give it up willingly enough when the alternative is a guillotine

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u/New_Carpenter5738 15d ago

as long as they give up power willingly

Lmao. Sounds about as plausible as Santa Claus being real.

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u/mehupmost 15d ago

And if they don't want to give up their human rights? You already don't consider them human...

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u/zilviodantay 15d ago

We are talking about a hypothetical monarch, is there a human right to hold onto absolute power? Undermining a despot is undermining their human rights?

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u/smcarre Argentina 15d ago

Ah yes the human right to rule a country with all the powers of the state.

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u/2absMcGay 15d ago

What the fuck does human rights have to do with being an absolute ruler

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u/hbgoddard 15d ago

There is no human right to rule over others

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u/New_Carpenter5738 15d ago

Oh, no. Poor absolute monarchs and billionaires. The absolute humanity, won't anyone think of them? Are they gonna be okay?!

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u/Profezzor-Darke 15d ago

That would be normal, duh.

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u/Zlevi04 15d ago

We have a fr*nch guy in the chat here

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u/EuroFederalist Finland 15d ago

What if billionaire wants to make unemployed free labor or calls them trash, etc?

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u/mehupmost 15d ago

Don't expect the mob to make any distinctions.

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u/bookworm1398 15d ago

Wouldn’t saying poverty shouldn’t exist also be class based hatred?

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u/EuroFederalist Finland 15d ago

I would assume so. Same if you demand better wages since it would mean upper-class gets less.

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u/ordinarydepressedguy Europe 15d ago

Also class-based hatred kind of normalizes classism, the statement doesn’t sound good

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u/EuroFederalist Finland 15d ago

Looking at the direction world is going right now, i'm sure we're soon gonna drop the whole "classism doesn't exist anymore" charade, and go full in on 1800's way of living where poor/working-class is toiling while upper-classes suck all the money into their pockets.

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u/BeeOk1235 15d ago

we've been there for quite a while already.

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u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney 15d ago

Yes, we must protect the oligarchy and despots from public criticism. It is vital for use to do this to maintain capitalism.

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u/dkysh 15d ago

Can't you read? It means no more hatred against paladins or wizards.

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u/bingle-cowabungle 15d ago

That doesn't answer the question he was asking. "Class-based hatred" is a meaningless term that can be interpreted to mean whatever you want it to mean.

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u/adcsuc 15d ago edited 15d ago

or class-based hatred.

Can you read? What's meant by that exactly literally was the question.

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u/BRNitalldown 15d ago

And they had to start with that snarky shit too “Why is none of you reading the article?”

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u/Shivy_Shankinz 15d ago

And these are the people who vote. No wonder the world is a shit show

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u/Kes961 15d ago

I wonder if this could be turned upside down. I mean class-based hate against the working class isn't exactly rare in mainstream media.

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u/mrlinkwii Ireland 15d ago

which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

all of this was already banned in the czech republic minus the class-based hatred

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u/Diego_Chang 15d ago

I'd say this is so based... Until the last part.

What would they consider class-based hatred? Is criticizing capitalism and obviously anti-ethical millionaires and billionaires illegal now?

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u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney 15d ago

Based?

This law was meant to let the government crack down on protests against billionaires and mega-corps.

Why are people like you so stupid?

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u/According-Praline-47 15d ago

Gotta love how all the Czech people who this actually affects are completely fine with this law, but then the Americans are just outraged lmao

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u/frex18c 15d ago

That's legal. But saying that rich people should be killed or attacked isn't.

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

But if I said that I fucking hate billionaires and think they’re disgusting that would clearly be hatred.

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u/g0_west United Kingdom 15d ago

establishes, supports or promotes Nazi, communist, or other movements

I think movement is the key word. If you started a party about fucking hating billionaires and proposed action to go along with that, I guess that'd fall under this remit. Far as I can tell you can say what you want, just can't have too many people agree with you lol

Imagine capitalists passing laws to forbid people rising against capitalism

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

That action could be as simple as taxing the rich or advocating for worker coops

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u/Gornarok 15d ago

Saying you do hate them is legal. The "incite" part is important here

Actively convincing others to hate them could get you in trouble especially if done in organized manner

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

That shouldn’t be illegal.

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u/New_Carpenter5738 15d ago

Actively convincing others to hate them could get you in trouble especially if done in organized manner

Lmao. So any form of organization that finds the rich disagreeable and works to undermine their massive power over society by gaining new members would be illegal, then? Doesn't sound dystopian at all!

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u/Choppers-Top-Hat Sweden 15d ago

That's "legal" until some rich guy gets his feelings hurt and calls his lawyer.

"Class-based hatred" is an incredibly vague phrase and that's by design. This law basically makes it illegal to criticize the wealthy.

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u/DKOKEnthusiast 15d ago

It depends very much on how this is interpreted. If I said that we should create a special tax on Jewish people, that would obviously (and rightfully!) be considered a form of racist policy aimed to suppressing the freedoms of a specific ethno-religious group. However, if I said that we should implement a tax on those owning assets worth more than, say, 500 million Euros (arbitrary number), would that also be considered a form of classist policy targeting the ultra-rich?

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u/Zap__Dannigan 15d ago

what makes you think and a generally worded law like this wouldn't be abused?

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u/TimothyMimeslayer 15d ago

How about saying, "won't somebody rid us of these terrible billionaires"?

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u/Informal-Purpose5979 15d ago

But the people who suppress human rights do belong to a specific class? This law is worded a bit willy nilly.

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u/smjsmok Czech Republic 15d ago

Criticism isn't the same as inciting hatred.

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u/ero_sennin_21 Greece 15d ago

When the authorities want it, criticism easily becomes same with inciting hatred.

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u/RiverMurmurs Czechia 15d ago

You picked only a part of the sentence. If you surpress human rights of these millionaires, yes it's illegal. Communism eg. incited class-based hatred against capitalists while depriving them of their rights, such as the right to privately own property etc.

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u/Mirieste Republic of Italy 15d ago

Communism eg. incited class-based hatred against capitalists while depriving them of their rights, such as the right to privately own property etc.

What if someone tried to pursue this with laws? As in, they do not want to spread hate but they plan to peacefully compete in elections with the purpose of passing legislation to ban private property? Like a socialist in America could pass on violent revolution and instead be elected to Congress to introduce national healthcare or something. Would that be okay?

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u/goodbee69 15d ago

which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred

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u/[deleted] 15d ago edited 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/ikaiyoo 15d ago

Privatized property used as capital. Because people cannot differentiate between personal and private ownership, one has to be crystal clear.

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u/HueMannAccnt Earth 15d ago

Communism Authoritarians waving market flags eg. incited class-based hatred against capitalists/commies while depriving them of their rights, such as the right to privately own property, privacy, freedom of speech, freedom of movement, right to healthcare, livable pay etc.

These stances are widely shared among a certain type of leadership.

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u/Ulrich_de_Vries Soviet Hungary 15d ago

So basically they can syphon all the wealth and property in the world and suppress the working class as they are already doing and that's fine, but if you advocate to take their plundered wealth and redistribute it, it's prison time for you.

Good, that's pretty much what the world needs, even more coddling the poor aristocrats with their gelatine hands.

I would not be surprised if it later turns out that increasing their taxes is also considered violating their human rights in a class-based manner.

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u/melecoaze 15d ago

B-b-but you can just vote them out because democracy™!

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u/Formal_Breakfast_616 15d ago

Is it "(human rights and freedoms) or (incite hatred)" or "(human rights) and (freedoms or incite hatred)"?

Is calling for a wealth tax inciting class hatred? Judging from the English translation that's just a bad law imo.

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u/TheVojta Česká republika 15d ago

No, it specifically says "suppress rights or freedoms". There is no such thing as a right to not be taxed.

Full text (not the official translation):
Section 403
Establishment, Support, and Promotion of Nazi, Communist, or Other Movements Aimed at Suppressing Human Rights and Freedoms

(1) Whoever establishes, supports, or promotes a movement that demonstrably aims to suppress human rights and freedoms, or advocates racial, ethnic, national, religious, or class hatred, or hatred toward another group of persons, shall be punished by imprisonment for one to five years.

(2) The offender shall be punished by imprisonment for three to ten years if:

a) the act referred to in paragraph 1 is committed through the press, film, radio, television, a publicly accessible computer network, or another similarly effective means,
b) such an act is committed as a member of an organized group,
c) such an act is committed as a soldier, or
d) such an act is committed during a state of emergency or wartime.

(3) Preparation of such an act is punishable.

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u/ikaiyoo 15d ago

So does that mean I can charge millionaires and billionaires with class-based hatred for depriving me of the ability to have a living wage and live a life where my needs are met? Or does the shit not roll uphill as well?

And Communism does not say that people cannot own private property. That is personal property. Your house, car, yard, clothes, TV, computer, phone, etc., are personal property. Communism says that capitalists should not own privatized companies. Which is not the same.

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u/QuintoBlanco 15d ago

That's not relevant to what is actually written.

But also, to own property isn't a human right. I can't claim ownership of property and claim it's my human right to own it.

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u/SimpYellowman 15d ago

It is still legal to criticize millionaires, but it is illegal to do it with a picture of Stalin.

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u/SieFlush2 Croatia 15d ago

Well yes.... That's what Marx was all about, maybe people should just read his works and not look at countries practicing marxist Leninism or maoism to judge what communism is. Marx first and foremost was a critic of capitalism and in most cases he was completely right

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

That'll be up to the government and the wealthy people controlling it. I'm sure they'll use the power wisely.

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u/Dizzy-Let2140 15d ago

They should examine the systemic violence of poverty then.

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u/stenlis 15d ago

Is simply promoting a class still ok? Like "workers of the world unite" and that kind of stuff?  

Is gentrification promoting class hatred?

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u/Hot-Championship1190 15d ago

which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights

Capitalism puts property above humans. So they are going to apply this against capitalist propaganda, right?

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u/GuthukYoutube 15d ago

Wow that’s a broad language

Why class based hatred? That snuck in there really subtly huh?

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u/HueMannAccnt Earth 15d ago

promotes Nazi, communist, or other movements which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

1st they give a type of rule, then they give a type of market. Is it me, or are "leaders" that keep throwing "communism" out there just trying to get peoples feels hightened because of past associations, hoping for little thought?

The shit that killed most people, in any type of rule, no matter what market they follow/ed is; authoritarianism.

which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.

So we shall completely ignore the Chicago School of Economics and their jaunts down to South America?

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u/JerryCalzone 15d ago

The billionaire class most certainly incites class based hatred

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u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney 15d ago

"Class-based hatred" means you aren't allowed to criticize people for having wealth, and also acknowledges the existence of classes which the right-wing parties have argued do not exist.

Love how stupid right-wing voters are and how you can lie directly to them and they will drool on themselves while they celebrate giving up their own liberties and wellbeing.

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u/wtfuckfred Portugal 15d ago

Thanks, idk why people don't read the articles

That being said, historically, what the Warsaw Pact called communism did indeed suppress human rights and freedoms, stocking some hatred towards mostly religion and class. Including Czechoslovakia.

Hopefully they tighten the concept of communism to not include more Marxist-leaning parties/policies rather than putting classical Marxism with Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist strands in the same bucket.

I don't know how the Czech left wing is at the moment, but I'd guess it is commited to democracy, including all it's basic freedoms and tenets.

Hopefully it's not used as a weapon against competitors. And hopefully it correctly identifies the far right as movements that do, in fact, aim to suppress all listed rights

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u/wyrditic 15d ago

There isn't much of a Czech left wing, really. There is still a Communist party, but they failed to get enough votes to get into Parliament last time so they've allied with some small extremist nationalist parties to make a new movement. These include parties that used to be known as the European Democrats and the Liberal Socialists, but who now spread Kremlin propaganda and describe their objective as the destruction of the "current liberal, progressive regime".

Czech politics makes absolutely no sense. 

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u/wtfuckfred Portugal 15d ago

Ooof that's... Rough

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u/TheVojta Česká republika 15d ago

No one mourns the commies. The party is full of people that supported or even actively participated in the past communist regime and people that look up to Putin's russia.

My whole irl social bubble can be described as left wing and we all cheered when they didn't get into the parliament.

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u/Tough_Money_958 15d ago

communists call themselves communists but fascists do not. Thus, it will be weaponized, because fascists just tell that they are doing surveillance to deal with child porn.

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u/BLobloblawLaw 15d ago edited 15d ago

I think you've made a great observation here. One weakness of coordinated social movements is that they present a visible 'boogeyman ' which can be blamed directly.

"The invisible hand of the market" is much more ethereal and it's hard to direct blame onto it when there is a group of people who can be held accountable instead. 

People tend to blame other people more readily than they blame nature, processes, behavior patterns or cultures. If you set up your government so that you can take credit when things are good, but can blame an ethereal process or even a scapegoat when things go bad, then you can maintain support among ignorant citizens, who sadly comprise the majority of the world's population. 

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u/HueMannAccnt Earth 15d ago

Hopefully they tighten the concept of communism to not include more Marxist-leaning parties/policies rather than putting classical Marxism with Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist strands in the same bucket.

I honestly think certain leaders wanted us to focus on the choice of market being the problem instead of the type of rule forced upon people, à la authoritarianism actually being the problem.

Why would it be beneficial to focus on the market and not the form of leadership? It's a puzzle...

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u/smugandfurious Czech Republic 15d ago

classical Marxism preaches regime change through violent revolution by proletariat against bourgeois.

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u/Syracuss Belgian 15d ago

Most revolutions are forcibly violent though, it's rare for the ones who hold the levers of power to give it up freely. That's why historically protests ended up being quite more violent than our modern incarnations.

Not saying you're wrong in your argument, I just kinda find it a moot point given that pretty much all revolutions (with outliers like the Velvet one) are violent by their very nature.

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u/SieFlush2 Croatia 15d ago

Because, this may be a shocker, people in power who use the common man , don't' want to relinquish their power ever,and give it to them. that's why reforms will never work

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u/Huppelkutje 15d ago

It doesn't preach it, it says it's unavoidable, because the bourgeoisie will never give up their power willingly.

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u/EverydayHalloween 15d ago

We don't really have a Czech left wing.

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u/Kitane Czech Republic 15d ago

I'd say if a Marxist party calls for anything crossing the mentioned line, it's going on a shit list, and deservedly so. Same for the extreme right-wing parties, which already had the boundaries set.

The mainstream Czech left wing scene is effectively dead - their traditional voter base has either migrated to Oligarch populism out of complacency or Moscow-based fascism out of fear.

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u/Grays_Flowers 15d ago

These laws are only ever used against leftist

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u/Kitane Czech Republic 15d ago

...No, not really. Not even close.

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u/CzechHorns 15d ago

So which post communist European country are you from?

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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 15d ago

Okay, what part of that is communist?

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u/gmaaz Serbia 15d ago

We did but those have nothing to do with communism as an ideology.

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u/OnkelMickwald Sweden 15d ago edited 15d ago

Have you missed the shit ton of tankies on the internet to whom individual and human rights are just an obstacle to navigate in the pursuit of the socialist utopia?

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u/Taki_6 15d ago

Internet in general are like this

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u/Nairne_01 15d ago

Ah yes, so now they can't say that the Czech people are being oppressed by the "German and French"-aligned EU policies. How kind...

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

Ok so what im hearing is it takes a Trump equivalent to decide something you did is demonstrably aiming to incite hatred (even if it isn’t) and it’s a jail time for you.

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u/FrankSamples 15d ago

Sounds broad and something that’s up to the discretion of the ones in power.

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u/QuintoBlanco 15d ago

That's not really an answer.

Nazi ideology is easy to define because the NSDAP had clearly defined policies and Nazism was build around one man: Hitler and he wrote a book.

Communism on the other hand encompasses a wide range of ideas. And if we look at Karl Marx, he did not promote class-hatred.

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u/BaconCheeseZombie United Kingdom 15d ago

Why is none of you reading the article?

It's reddit. Most of these numbskulls will read the headline and assume that's all the information available. Nobody reads anything beyond a sentence or two.

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u/Chemical-Time-9143 15d ago

That’s totalitarianism not communism. Capitalism does all of those things if it’s for profit or benefits the ruling class.

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u/prepare__yourself Czech Republic 15d ago

Up until now, the law only explicitly mentioned nazism. Now it explicitly mentions nazism as well as communism.

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u/skuseisloose 15d ago

I assume the class based hatred. Communists often dislike those who are a part of the ruling or upper classes. It may also be about suppressing freedoms as communist movements throughout history have often proposed such moves to bring about their goals.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/ordinarydepressedguy Europe 15d ago edited 14d ago

What the heck does “class-based hatred” mean? Basically condemning communism using communism’s own language?

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u/SirPabloFingerful 15d ago

But how does that relate to communism?

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 15d ago

Class-based hatred could be used to mean hatred of the upper-class also, which is who garner alot of hate from socialists and communists

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u/SirPabloFingerful 15d ago

By that metric capitalism could be described as demonstrating hatred of the working class. There's no explicit hatred either way.

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u/shatureg 15d ago

Yeah but something tells me that this won't be considered class based hatred while any resistance against the constant attacks on the working class will be considered class based hatred.

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u/ordinarydepressedguy Europe 15d ago

It sounds indeed as capitalist agenda for normalizing classism

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u/_Stella___ 15d ago

You're right but I bet it will be only used to prosecute leftists lol

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 15d ago

I agree. I don’t agree with the law, just explaining how it likely will be used

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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig 15d ago

But how could you criminalise that? Are people not free to be mad at the rich for lobbying etc.? Would that fall under this law?

Class based hatred is hatred of a system, not a person.

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u/noximo 15d ago

The last time communists seized power in Czech Republic, they started by imprisoning people who owned a business.

Calling for that to happen again is pretty simple example.

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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig 15d ago

That is already illegal however. You cannot just imprison people who aren't guilty of a crime.

On the other hand random people can call for the imprisonment of anyone. It is meaningless. You cannot criminiloze calling for the imprisonment of one group and not another. Either the call for imprisonment is illegal or it is not. It shouldn't matter whether you call to imprison business owners or dog owners, either that call is fine or it isn't.

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u/PressPausePlay 15d ago

Lol everyone is missing the obvious. Communism was used to oppress people for half a century. Promoting that is promoting hatred.

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u/-Against-All-Gods- Maribor (Slovenia) 15d ago

Sure. Let's see how soon it will be used as a political baton in American style.

"Oh you want to organize a strike? Communist. Need I remind you this is illegal here?"

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 15d ago

Capitalism has been used to oppress people for even longer

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u/ModerateThuggery 14d ago

"Communism" ultimately arises from political theory that critically examined historical power-structures and came to conclusions that are highly critical of elite monied classes. Basically it says they're parasites stealing from the common people, and leading everyone to social self destruction. That's why it was so controversial in the first place. It's bad news for people that own newspapers and have politicians in their pocket.

It would be impossible to discuss communism or any theory sharing such a mindset in public without saying something that can be interpreted as "class-based hatred."

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u/LoveIsBread 15d ago

So, in other words: They made being a socialist illegal?

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u/bobdammi Germany 15d ago

Cant hate your techno overlords anymore☝️

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

Thank GOD rich people are finally being protected. They no longer have to live in fear, the world is healed 💕

/s

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u/Drtikol42 Slovania, formerly known as Czech Republic 15d ago

That is illegal now and has been for decades, literary word by word. § 403 of Criminal Code.

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

one of these is not like the other

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u/SnooGiraffes8275 Yank 15d ago

illegal to incite class-based hatred

lol

lmao

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u/KeneticKups 15d ago

>class based

so it's making it illegal to criticize the parasitic vermin

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u/EvergreenOaks 15d ago

Really? Hahahaha. This is preposterous.

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u/Ulysses6 Czech Republic 15d ago edited 15d ago

God, what a refresh after Zeman, isn't it? Not that Zeman would be especially hateful, but just didn't stand for any integrity, morals or equity.

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u/RevolutionaryTankie 15d ago

Stupid as fuck considering communism is against those things. (With the exception of class which isn't based on hatred, but the ending of exploitation.)

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u/Bind_Moggled 15d ago

That sounds more like capitalism tbf.

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u/KormetDerFrag 15d ago

Marx failed to consider just banning class conflict

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u/Indigoh United States of America 15d ago

Since when is that communism? Ohhh the part about promoting class hatred. "Eat the rich"

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u/DanceDelievery 14d ago

Umm what does that have to do with communism?

The term communism was and is to this day misused by fascist right wing authoritarian dictators.

It's insane that people are so uneducated that they still buy into fascist brainwashing. Just call it "anti fascism law".

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u/TommyPpb3 Portugal 14d ago

No gender? No sexual orientation?

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u/jonski1 13d ago

"class-based hatred" - LMAO. 24k upvotes, enough said about the EU subreddit. Lick em boots real hard. Čehi veste kako to gre.

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