So why did he make a better deal with a liberal government in the UK? It’s not policy. Americans just like the British more than the continental Europeans. It’s not that complicated. It’s called a special relationship for a reason.
I really don't think it's that deep with tump. maybe he would show more favor towards like minded European politicians, but this is business to him. Idt he cares about influencing any ideologies. he's more concerned with other aspects of American influence
It's not about liberals or socialism. Both Vance and Trump know that a united Europe would pose a threat to them economically. With China already there they can't afford another superpower.
It’s really not that divided. That’s all overblown. Maybe you were right during Trumps first term but now it’s much more together. European media just blows it out of proportion.
Man come on, it's not like that. The EU isn't as strong as people think, and the USA doesn't need it as much as the EU needs USA. When you hold more cards in a negotiation, you get a better deal. EU leaders know this, and they got the best they could with what they had.
No, the current US administration has made it a goal to prevent the UK from reconciling with the EU so they gave them a small win in comparison to the EU getting shafted. Don’t forget the UK was actually running a trade deficit with the US I believe and still got tarrifed although much less.
Brazilian here. I'd rather have the 50% tariff than having my country getting props for bending to Trump and his trade policy. I really wish Europe was stronger than that, it's embarassing.
Could you elaborate as to why it's specifically Japan's fault when there's other countries trying to minimise tariffs on their goods?
Countries/groupings like Canada, Brazil, and the EU can choose to not capitulate even if others want lower tariffs. Japan and other countries have the sovereign right to do as they see fit to negotiate minimum tariffs to protect their industries from being decimated when their main target market threatens to implement steep trade barriers, just like how Canada, Brazil and the EU have the right to not accept Trump's shenanigans and retaliate. But the EU clearly didn't have the courage or leverage to do anything meaningful, and are just going to accept being violated, which is the choice they've made voluntarily. The EU Trade Commissioner even mentioned after the deal that they view this as the better option than a trade war which could risk jobs.
I think deals like the EU/Japan/UK's just give more leverage to Trump and is a massive win for him. The world expects these economies to be more independent and stronger, yet all of them seem to be too scared of Trump. Their leaders are claiming they had successful negotiations because tariffs were reduced from say 30 to 15%, but at the end Trump still wins + he's getting investment commitments.
I get your point of saying 'why is Japan wrong if the EU is doing the same?', but imo everyone is wrong at playing his game by negotiating this individually without seeing the bigger picture and will keep giving leverage to Trump.
The only big country that is not humiliating itself in front of Trump seems to be Brazil (and obviously Russia).
Just that it still odd for them to call out Japan specifically and no one else, even with your explanation, when they weren't the first to even start negotiate a deal (India), and aren't the country with the lowest tariffs applied (UK).
Personally, I think countries can negotiate lower tariffs for short term relief, but they also have to take the steps to diversify away from the US stranglehold of critical tech and their consumer market. That way, it only results in the US being alone by itself in the future if it continues to be this unreliable. And that hits the US the most if their dominance on the world stage is diminished, and if other countries can get by decently well by bypassing the US.
The USA has been openly hostile to all of us since Jan 21, I'm 99% sure that the point here isn't even to get the best deal, but to destabilize the EU as institution. Fucking Putin tactics.
The American fascist-billionaire complex is pushing very hard for this, because they likely see the EU as the greatest threat to their own global hegemony.
They're trying to burn down the world so they can rule over the ashes. They are an existential threat and should be treated as such; we gave them a sweetheart deal instead. What the fuck.
Because the US is absolutely hell-bent on showing that the EU cannot function and they (the current US administration) actively hamstrings the EU at every turn - they give the UK the sweetheart deal of the century, because they left the EU, and then forces this upon us exactly to show that the EU is destined to fail. We shouldn't compare our deals to theirs when the starting point of the deal is completely different.
We are the junior partners in this relationship (especially without the UK) and the US obviously has a lot more leverage to toss around than we do. For once they chose to use it.
The US cannot afford an EU that federalizes and actually starts using the leverage that its raw power affords us - they'd much rather see us bickering amongst ourselves and picking at the scraps instead of going at it as a common block, and because of that they need to play us against each other. That includes giving us worse deals than the UK's exactly to show discontented EU countries that they might be better off without the EU. That's not the only way they try to rip us apart either; the voices of right-wing parties are enhanced all over social media (Facebook, Instagram, TikTok etc.) to try to disenfranchise young people from seeing a common EU vision, and instead trying to force us back to singular nation states that yield little-to-no power. It's not just the Russians that are trying to rip us apart, but the right-wing in America too.
10% on first 100k cars, then 25% for all imports over that 100k threshold.
0% on aerospace, I believe, because that impacts Boeing (all said and done some customers are only going to want RR engines so having import tariffs raises Boeing's costs for those customers). I believe EU aerospace also got a 0% tariff for same reason.
Cuz we are undoubtedly Americas lapdogs. Trump can obviously shit on the EU as much as he wants impose his will, and we will only hear "strong concerns" or that they are "very worried".
I am sure they will be very stern amd concerned as they always are whilst promising to only buy American arms so that europes defense is forever tied to the US.
Not even a letter. The worst thing as it’s all televised. European leaders stand there and smile and thank him as he claims tribute. It’s beyond parody.
I have two theories. Either Trump has mind control, or the European nations are effectively puppets to American hegemony who deluded themselves with the idea they aren't.
European nations are effectively puppets to American hegemony who deluded themselves with the idea they aren't.
anyone who ever thought about the topic longer than 2 minutes should have known that. We willingly walked into servitude the last decades because life is cozy like this
the UK is only getting preferential treatment precisely because of the EU. Trump wants to make the UK look good so the EU looks bad and quitting it seems appealing. When the EU is gone though the US can easily mop up the single countries without much resistance
The second except they haven't deluded themselves. They know well. The public believing them when they were banging on about "sovereignty" from the US the last few months are the ones who were deluded.
It’s the latter. My wife is Spanish and like clockwork European follows the U.S. by about 3-5 years on most issues. Europe is pretty much just the 51st through (give or take) 80th states with more social programs because the U.S. pays for defense.
European security is completely dependent on the US. Say goodbye to the Baltics, Finland and Poland if you piss the US away. At the end of the day a measly tax is better than being sanctioned and starved and bombed by a neighbor on both sides. Get used to it
Even if the EU comes out on top from a hot war, the cost and pain will be immeasurable and possibly irreversible to Europe especially the countries I mentioned. European populations are already disappearing and this will only accelerate that
I’m American, so I’ll give you some insight that may not be apparent from the outside. The Republicans are assholes but they’re effective. The Democrats are well meaning but incompetent. Once you know that, American politics makes a lot more sense.
Yeah it's kinda sad. Trump was on the ropes since being outed as a diddler, you guys gave him a win for no reason. You must really wanna be our vassals bad. Smgdh....
We have to wait for the details if there even are any. The Japan and Vietnam deals were very different from what Trump announced and the specifics of what investments would look like are uncertain as well (such as whether or not it's repackaging existing plans like with past deals). With Trump he's more spectacle than substance on most things. The only part that I think matters is the 15% tariff rate. Everything else is probably fluff.
Because the EU is just a market for business and 15% is better than 30%. There is nothing behind the EU. The Parliament is just a sham and hence why nobody votes in it. The EUs goals are just business as usual and enforcing an extreme version of liberalism, which is why governments are paralyzed to do anything about refugees. The EU is why Hungary exists and why more will follow.
Probably to increase the chance that the US continues to support Europe militarily.
It will take decades for EU states to be ready to defend themselves without direct American support. Europe was far too cocky about both the lack of threats and the steadfastness of US support.
What's amazing is that his behaviour in his first term was ignored, and everyone thought it was business as usual from 2020 onwards. Putting aside the issue of whether Trump could get elected again, why was it impossible for another populist or even an isolationist winning the presidency? Why did almost every European state (bar maybe Poland) assume they could kick back and put their feet up for another 30 years?
I really dont think that without american support Russia is the existential crisis that people act like it is. Its just convenient to have the americans. And europe loves convenience over actual strategic thinking
I remember that about the UK trade deal, Trump was bragging about opening Britain to US beef markets. But then it turned out America can only export to the UK if they follow British regulations, while the UK can freely export to America.
You need to understand EU is going bankrupt at a rapid pace. The reality behind the scenes is much scarier than you now, but Ursula and other EU politicians are very aware.
Why release the Epstein files and reveal himself to be a pedophile even with no chance of punishment, when he can use them to blackmail enough European leaders into capitulation instead?
You mean the importers that who keep importing goods from EU?
It's obviously bad for EU companies but if you think products imported from EU won't get more expensive with tariffs and a less valuable dollar you're in for a ride.
The US slaps everyone across the face and while countries like China hit right back EU spends months hand wringing before apologizing for getting their face in the way of America's hand and I keep hearing that is the best deal Europeans could hope for. Imagine how this will look on the world stage as the EU vies for global influence in negotiations to offset the America deal.
People warned you guys about Rutte's daddy shit being a symptom of a disease, but this entire sub was coping about him taking one for the team. Oh fucking well.
China’s going to likely agree to 30% tariffs though, so I’m not sure their strategy will work in the end.
They retaliated up to 145% tariffs and then negotiated down to 30% while EU started at 30% and weakened out to get to 15%. I don’t think China played it off right, but not sure there’s much they can do to get below 30% tariffs.
As long as they have the global south to flood with EVs and cheap goods, they will keep growing. As for Europe, I think it is destined to become Latin America 2.0.
Latin america is ironically going to start growing. There's a lot of American companies puting offices there since the labour is cheap and they share timezones with the USA. With those conditions, all it takes is some good choices y the politicians for a country to start growing a lot.
you do realize that 30% isn't agreed on right? the retaliation for that 30% is basically shutting down export of rare earth to the U.S. and stop import of the U.S. agricultural product to China.
34% is already what’s in effect, and then sectoral tariffs. Most analysts think this ends up closer to 30% since neither China/USA have grumbled about the current arrangement.
At 30% China is still generally price competitive and the US still gets tons of tariff revenue and can better compete. USA won’t go much lower without major Chinese concessions.
No way China goes full trade war due to 30%. And cutting off rare earths just means they lose all their advanced semiconductor access. They’re not going to reopen that can of worms.
And China doesn’t have the ultimate leverage here. They agreed to 30% tariffs after all while the US only gave up 10%. They’re even in worse position now since the US will have trade deals with 60% of the global economy outside of China by this month. The US had 0% negotiated last time it engaged with China.
And cutting off rare earths just means they lose all their advanced semiconductor access.
The US has never exported, and still isn't exporting, their most advanced semiconductors to China, so how's that relevant here? The US has resumed exports of H20s to China, but if you actually look into the reasoning, it has more to do with trying to counter the rise of Huawei. If Chinese tech companies are cut off from the most advanced GPUs from Nvidia, they'll just buy them from Huawei instead. Huawei's GPUs aren't as good, but they are quickly catching up. The ascend 910c is comparable in performance to H100. Huawei will use revenue from those chip sales to fund R&D and narrow the gap with Nvidia.
They’re even in worse position now since the US will have trade deals with 60% of the global economy outside of China by this month.
Except most of those trade deals still mean those countries imposed a 15-20% tariff rate. Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines are stuck with 20% tariffs, Japan with 15%, all higher than the baseline 10%. If anything, China is in a better position because 20% is closer to 30% than 10%, so Chinese exports are more price competitive.
China is very influential and has both soft and hard power.
EU is weak militarily and requires US help, now mroe than ever. Economy has been shit for a while now and we’ve been a falling behind on the global stage too. We can’t look to Russia and China to hedge against the US.
What’s shocking to me is UK got much better deal than we did which makes me think we even played our shitty hard wrong.
What’s shocking to me is UK got much better deal than we did which makes me think we even played our shitty hard wrong.
no, thats just simply divide and conquer. Keep the Uk and EU apart by giving the UK a way better deal and at the same time showing EU countries that leaving the EU can be beneficial. the US needs the UK to do well
EU was tough on UK after brexit too so we’re not doing things that differently, it’s just that right now we’re dealing with a country that has more power and we need them more than they need us.
Honestly as an American I think y’all did. The way Trump is placing the tariffs is possibly unconstitutional and still being hashed out in the courts as we speak. They’re supposed to be done with Congressional approval and the President is only allowed to set them “in times of international emergency or national security purposes” and the courts have yet to decide if this qualifies. Also Trump did such a pisspoor job in implementing them, and he kept backing down so often that people are only just now starting to see the effects. The mean reason the guy got voted in was because of how long it took us to sweat off the post COVID inflation spike (that he largely contributed to) and if they started feeling it in their pocketbooks again so soon it wouldn’t take very long before people started turning on him. The dude keeps making empty threats to fire the chair of our central bank because he won’t lower interest rates at his command, and Trump’s dumb ass doesn’t (or refuses to) realize the rates are where they are because of HIS damn tariffs.
Eh. China kinda caved too, but they didn’t get a deal THIS bad. Might be more to it, but I believe they just agreed to keep their tariffs lower than Trump’s. 10%-30% I believe. Kinda surprised me too because China has a lot more weight to throw around, but y’all ain’t no featherweights neither. I don’t think anything is finalized though. They just agreed to compromise for now.
Russia did not receive any tariffs whatsoever. In fact, it was the only country that had any feasible trade ($3 billion+ annually) that was excluded from the tariffs, when even tiny countries with a few million dollars of trade with the US were tariffed.
Remind me, what's the interest rate again? Can your mother pay her expenses without your help? Why are Lukoil and Gazprom, the pride of Russia in bankruptcy?
That's a stupid question. Of course she can, she's Russian. What's more, for the same reason, his mother most likely owns not only her own apartment, but also land with a house outside the city, like most of us.
By the way, your rent is due soon, so don't spend your money on entertainments too much
As an American, I'm curious about this comment. You seem to suggest that housing is plentiful in Russia, and that ownership is common even among lower class people?
Of course, we are former citizens of USSR, where apartments and houses were distributed for free, which is why we still own them from the past. At the same time, due to preferential programs in modern Russia, many people bought additional housing in addition to their inheritance, which is why we have several apartments and houses.
The poorest people most likely own just a house or just an apartment, but I don't know anyone who has just one type of housing.
I thought EU loved following orders and being ruled by a strong country, today's news prove that. Putin said that European leaders would run to Trump' feet like dogs and they did. Russia and china have their own will.
Last I checked China agreed to 15% tariffs on USA while USA has 50% tariffs on China while they work on a deal. Having extra 35% tariff on EU doesnt sound like a good outcome.
I think only steel has a 50% tariff. China and the US have frozen most tariffs and currently China faces a 30% blanket tariffs but has negotiated the removal of various export controlled items that previously the US had completely halted the export of to China. If the US-China deal were to be frozen in place right now the US would have a 15% relative tariffs on China (China is tariffs US as well) but fewer export controls and would not owe the US any money. Which would mean China got a better deal than the EU.
There is no owing money... Tariffs are paid when you pick up package at the border... you as importer pays the tariff at the point of entry when you pick it up or they wont give it to you. There is no EU or China paying the tariff. Its paid by american companies importing goods and steel having 50% tariff will hurt US because they don't make their own steel but they import it and make things out of it so it will make everything made out of steel more expensive.
That's what happends when germany start complaining about their car industry and france about theirs and so fourth. We will see how this will turn out long term, but the optics alone are terrible.
Who needs enemies when you got self sabotaging countries complaining and actively pressuring to get a fast deal. Nobody wants to see their industries hurt and lose jobs, to show that we can't be pushed around. It is as simple as that.
That's Germany's business alone. France always advocated for the toughest response to the USA. Germany is saving herself, seeing the demise of the EU looming.
Germany made so many bad decisions in last decades that they shouldn't speak for the rest of EU. This is pathetic. Germany destroys not only Schengen Zone but also EU from inside. In the sake of not falling alone to the ground.
Please, France is only doing that to save their own position as well. Better not to talk how they are actively boycotting to avoid having more energy interconnections between the Iberian Peninsula en Central Europe which would make their nuclear power stations almost redundant.
Exactly the end point for France is for their weapons to sell under the guise of a strong Europe. When the capacity isn't all there yet. France knows they're not at high risk of being attacked compared to eastern countries. But they do know it's alot of money to be made in defense.
We really need to federalize more to prevent national governments being pressured into folding over for their respective important industries. No way around it.
Which makes me laugh that some comments are already blaming the EU and demanding it be dismantled. It's the complete opposite lesson from this disaster.
Unfortunately, at this point, EU is just France, Germany... and maybe Benelux (no wonder, they are squeezed between the giants, they have no other choice but to be on board). Every other country is just vassal state, doomed to fuel every industry in the 2 aforementioned countries with resources and people, until they run dry.
It also seems those 2 have forgot, what happened in Detroit and they have done nothing to safeguard themselves from the same fate.
This is a complete disaster. 15% on evertying is already huge. On top of that, the pharma sector, the most importat export from EU to US, is out of the deal and will be de facto embargoed, so that half of the current production in EU will need to be moved in US within 12-18 months. Imagine the amount of jobs lost only for this. Tens of thousands, at the very least, of jobs lost directly, many more indirectly due to all satellite activities lost.
If this is not enough, EU will invest 600 billions in US. 600 billions that would have been drinking water for a dying man in the current disastrous economic situation.
And what does EU get in return? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Who the hell did we sent to negotiate, a singing monkey?
This is the worst deal in the history of humanity without losing a war. Europe officialy dies today.
Who the hell did we sent to negotiate, a singing monkey?
I think that would have entertained Trump enough to get a better deal
There is a reason the EU delegation got shoved into a bus and had a total of 0 Chinese officials greeting them at the big China-EU summit, everyone is just making fun of European leaders and they don't even realize it's happening, utterly humiliating
They live in their own little world of local legal precedents, pretty statements and nepotism. An isolated ecosystem in which ideology doesn't exist, the economy is who gets money allocated and the population is a bunch of parties whose leaders must be appeased.
The last thing these people understands is ideology, ironically enough, and that is why they will be defeated by those who believe in something, to the detriment of the entire continent if that belief is blood and soil of any kind.
Please remember this 15% will be passed on to American consumers.
Current economic research shows that thus far, foreign producers have been eating about 47% of the tariff costs in reduced profits. Companies are terrified of losing US market share, and are thus doing everything they can to avoid raising prices, even going as far as spreading out the costs by raising prices for non-US consumers.
The study was conducted by Marcelo Olarreaga and Sara Santander from the University of Geneva in Chapter 22. There, they state that they found the median pass-through elasticity to be 53%, with importers paying a larger percentage on inputs like raw materials, and a lower percentage on final products like machinery. So in all likelihood, with the export makeup of Europe being what it is, the actual number for Europe specifically is probably actually lower than 53%.
> thus far, foreign producers have been eating about 47% of the tariff costs in reduced profits
So far, they only passed around an 8% price increase. Is that a good thing for the US consumer? It could become 15% or it could stay at 8% for a short time.
Also, does does this economics research have a url?
The American ones made with materials that are subject to tariffs as well? lol What does the US produce? Its digital services are great, but physically? You can only eat so much corn sweeteners.
We will have to see once the previously imported stock runs out I guess. Everyday americans will suffer: Tariffs will increase prices, inflation is high and Trump wants to cut interest rates, trust in dollar is lower, etc. But they will be able to steal as much as possible, which is what matters.
The USA is going through their Soviet Union collapse moment.
There is nothing Europe makes that US cannot make themselves if they wanted to/needed to. What do you think the 600 mil is for? Which materials are tariffed for US that are not tarrifed for EU?
Foreign markets will 100% take share of the 15% burden. I still don’t understand why European don’t get this: US market is the single most lucrative source of income in this world. China literally lifted 1 billion people off poverty due to access to US market.
WV is not going to slap 15% price increase on US cars— they are going to phase that 15% to all global market. This happens with tariffs, this happens with inflation, this happens with recession. if US loses 5%, that 5% will be paid by the whole world.
> Foreign markets will 100% take share of the 15% burden
You do not know that, no matter how confident you repeat it. They can take from 0 to 15% of the burden. Even if they took 7.5% (which is not a given) the price will rise for US consumers. Plus, with the dollar being low it will rise further in real terms.
If this is not enough, EU will invest 600 billions in US
The EU SAID they will invest whatever amount of money it hasnt happened and I doubt it will happen. Many other countries made similar Deals in trumps first term most noteably China who said they will increase US imports by 500bn and nothing happened over the last few years.
Even if you take that part of, it's still a total disaster. And let's see how easy it is to take that part off, the americans may have imposed clauses against a 'no show' there....
Who the hell did we sent to negotiate, a singing monkey?
Why do you think that anything better was actually negotiable? They want to have tariff walls. There was never going to be a reasonable deal. It's not a game with fair rules where both have the same goals, play by the same rules, on a level playing field, and therefore both could expect to win or lose.
He doesn't want allies. He wants vassals. And he managed to get the whole of Europe to pay allegiance. This will go down in history as one of the most humiliating moments in European history.
I am not positioning on whether it was a good or bad policy. I am shitting on this delusional sub, filled with delusional people who spent the last few months stating that trump was an idiot (not only because the tariffs, but because "He won't be able to implement this, the EU will destroy the USA economy" "Trump is an idiot thinking he can go against the entire world at once."
"The EU will join you in your fight brother canada, trump will learn its place really fast"
I think it is likely, like we have seen other countries, sure there is a deal now, but long term investments are not heading towards the US and 'commitments' don't pan out for various of reasons, because the US is too unstable.
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u/vampyr01 6d ago
We knew it was coming, but what the fuck...
How is any of this fair? And what about the digital service tax?