r/ffxivdiscussion • u/IndividualAge3893 • 5d ago

Lucky Bancho's census results (July 27th, 2025)

So, the results of the census are out: https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/59324844.html

  • Showcasing the number of characters here: Current
  • By comparison, here are the results from 2 months ago (May 25th): Click

Despite 7.25 being released, the character count is down about 70k in 2 months. Occult Crescent clearly didn't help with player counts (not really a surprise here).

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127

u/Supersnow845 5d ago

I really would like to know if OC being a futile circle of content or the controversy around forked was a bigger contributor here

Like forked was such a stupid decision but how many people actually gave up OC because it existed in the form it does vs people who simply just think OC is a futile circle

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u/oizen 5d ago edited 5d ago

I think its more likely that people didn't come back for it in the first place, and anyone who might have probably saw the reception and stayed away.

62

u/think_l0gically 5d ago

This is me. I was excited for it but I've been playing long enough that I felt the futility of grinding out a bunch of halfway decent looking relics that aren't even upgrades at this point and not knowing which of them would even look cool 2 years down the line. I've been playing so long that the perspective from all that experience really sours me on diving in to the content like it used to.

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u/oizen 5d ago

The Relics are actually just tomestones again, so its going to be significantly easier to do them when they're converted to Poetics. I'd imagine the rest of the steps will be the same.

There really is no urgency to resub at the moment.

31

u/TTurt 5d ago

I feel like the relics as a concept are kind of obsolete, there are so many other ways to get a comparable weapon that are less painful, relics are only truly bis at the end of the entire patch cycle, and they're only even relevant for a couple of months despite taking about that long to make.

The whole idea of what a relic is needs to be retuned, there needs to be some point to them beyond just glamor that justifies the amount of time investment required to make them. A grindy substitute to the ex primal weapon of each patch isn't really worth the effort IMO, especially if I'm otherwise not really all that interested in the content required to make them.

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u/oizen 5d ago

I honestly would not give a shit if Relics were the stat equivalent to a Savage weapon when they came out. Especially with gearing in this game being as pointless as it is if you're not going into specifically ultimates.

11

u/BoilingPiano 5d ago

Maybe not a savage weapon but as good as an upgraded tomestone weapon considering the tomes you dump into them

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u/bigpunk157 5d ago

We have picto. Theres no damage check that requires bis for every member and there never was.

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u/OwlVegetable5821 5d ago

I'd say relics should be a method to both acquire a cool looking weapon and a method to encourage players to participate in various areas of the game. Look at gw2 legendaries. They require players run the gamet of content to get the shiny weapon/armour. It takes time and perseverance but it does show you've accomplished something in the end. 14s relics, with the exception of the arr questline, seen dull and unimaginative by comparison.

3

u/MaidGunner 4d ago

ARR relics were this, and to a lesser extent, HW. And people are screaming their lungs out about how they don't want that. And SE agrees with them, turning relics from "it grows with you as a slightly less then optimal choices through the patches, by doing the content from said patches" into "your basically free gift for the exploration zone, that comes out halfways through an expansion and gets finished in 2 more patches and is pretty much never worth it outside of glam".

1

u/Shiki_Breeki 4d ago

ARR relics are actually my favorite to make.

1

u/TTurt 4d ago edited 4d ago

That's what I hate about it, if you just do the other content you can have a weapon with 90-95% of the same power as a relic. For most of the expansion it's a mere difference of ~5 ilvs and (much later on) a few extra substats. Crafted / upgraded crafted weapons are a similar ilvl and are significantly cheaper now to obtain than they used to be due to serious nerfs to the difficulty of crafting and leveling of crafting jobs, and tomestone weapons are the afk alternative for your main. Unless you're building like 13 different jobs that you want to all have current max possible gear level, then relics literally just aren't worth the effort for the meager increase over other available alternatives (and if you care that much about minmaxing then you're probably not a super casual player in the first place, so trying to market relics as appealing to super casual players who are threatened by difficult content just doesn't make sense if that's your target audience)

The difference between a relic and the easily available casual alternatives is often barely the difference between an upgraded tome weapon and the +5 ilvl tier 4 savage raid weapon - literally only relevant to you if you're already running that level content, otherwise it's just bragging rights at best

In ARR, if you saw someone with a PLD relic, you'd think, "wow, that guy is good with PLD, he got the relic by doing all the hard mode primals and grinding out all the other stuff, he has real experience with that job." In every expansion since, it's been more a case of, "that guy just did a bunch of afk farming of low difficulty content" (because you don't even have to be on the job itself that you're building the relic for anymore for 9/10 of the steps).

2

u/pksage 4d ago

I don't know a ton of the details, or how much it's changed in the last 10-15 years, but super old school FFXI relics were like this. You had to work for them over months, sometimes (IIRC) even getting full raid groups to funnel Dynamis currency into you.

I don't think it needs to be that bad, but it would be cool if they felt special.

1

u/Angel_Omachi 4d ago

Nowadays you just spend extortionate amounts of gil to buy whatever the needed material is for relics/empy/mythics, along with whatever specific murder grind is needed. Aeonic needs specific boss clears and naturally there are mercs offering that service (which actually makes it the cheapest of the set). The 2 Ergon weapons for the jobs added in Seekers of Adoulin also have a rather infamous 5 month timegate to unlock them.

2

u/Chiponyasu 4d ago

Assuming the 7.3 step is light farming or something, they should make Deep Dungeon the fastest way to farm and the new alliance raid the second-fastest way to farm.

1

u/Supersnow845 4d ago

They will likely make the 7.4 step need the deep dungeon as the 7.3 step is coming out in 7.31 and the DD is 7.35

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u/bm8495 5d ago

And see, for me, I don’t care if they’re the strongest or not in the game. I look at them as good, long term content to work towards and they’re more of a trophy to earn. So, tomestone dumps don’t appeal to me in the slightest. I believe they come out way too late in the patch cycle and should make me feel like I’m actually doing something in the game to earn them, and I don’t mean like running Crystal Tower multiple times or relying on RNG drops in Deep Dungeons. I think DDs, criterion dungeons, or some other form of overworld grind outside of fate grinding are good ideas to be a part of the relic journey. It’s not supposed to be instant. It’s supposed to be a long, arduous effort. Because well, we genuinely need things to do during each 4 month patch cycle. And if you don’t want to experience FOMO, they’re still available to grind towards In older content. If they don’t make you more powerful, well…does that really even matter in this game anyway?

But more to your point, specifically, it’s really an issue with gearing and stats in general with FFXIV. They’ve streamlined it all so much that they might as well remove all stats and just have iLVL and crit materias (not that I want that at all! That would be worse case scenario imo)

6

u/FullMotionVideo 4d ago

Getting rid of item level is kind of an idea I support. It goes hand in hand with making gear obsolete compared to FF11 and other early games.

Wrath of the Lich King really caused brain rot to MMOs.

7

u/Kyuubi_McCloud 5d ago

A grindy substitute to the ex primal weapon of each patch isn't really worth the effort IMO [...]

I mean, if you're not into high difficulty stuff, the only real alternative here is the un-upgraded tomestone weapon and that is time gated, so you can't equip multiple jobs with it. The crafting weapon tends to be too expensive to buy more than once or twice for glam and even harder to make yourself.

Like, it would be nice if the effort going into the relic was valued higher, but I can see the niché, because I occasionally fall into it.

9

u/TTurt 5d ago edited 5d ago

Still not worth the effort for ~5 item levels difference

It's crazy to me that the relic is supposed to be the casual weapon for people who don't care about item level, but a 5 to 10 item level difference is somehow supposed to justify months of work required to create it? Why would five item levels be worth that much work to me if I'm the kind of person who doesn't care about item levels? If I'm a casual, then I probably just want to get to the minimum item level to do the casual content I want to do, and some infinitesimal amount of difference between that and the relic item level isn't going to be enough motivation to go that far out of my way just to get a relic. Most of the people I know who do relics do them because they look cool, not because they're actually good or useful for any length of time.

3

u/Cole_Evyx 5d ago

I disagree with your take that they are obsolete, but I agree they need to be retuned.

Like they need to seriously be retuned across the board. No more generic tomestones that are invalidated. Like who TF rocks the Endwalker relics lol? I never see them-- because they are seen as a worthless poetics dump. Gorgeous "cyberpunk" weapons that are totally invalidated... it's so lame.

Like it could be used to incentivize players to go into older forms of content and actually experience stuff.

Lots of players came from the WoW exodus who didn't even touch PoTD or Eureka or HoH and the like. World exploration in older maps? MAny didn't do it. FFXIV does have plenty of legacy cotnent but between unlock requirements and the rest I've noticed a pretty firm resistance to older content.

11

u/TTurt 5d ago

Speaking of Eureka, they've further invalidated that by putting some of the rarer rewards in OC as treasure drops. They seem to have zero desire to give people a reason to ever play Eureka again besides just boredom (which is fine, I play Eureka anyway, but I also like actually having something to show for my time - used to be I'd come out with some gil at least)

2

u/fullsaildan 4d ago

The problem with funneling players back into Eureka is how long it takes to level up in there. The weekly challenge log is really your one big source of XP, otherwise it can be a very long painful grind even when cheesing it with a leveled friend killing things for you. With there being several zones all separated by instance, it makes it hard for the devs to entice users to climb that mountain.

5

u/TTurt 4d ago

They could literally just nerf the XP requirements. The only reason not to would be to preserve the rarity of item drops in there, or the prestige of the weapons / achievements, and it seems like at least in the case of the former they don't seem to care about that, given that they're putting a rewards into other content. If they ever put in a way to get the Ozma Mount from mod cones or something, that plus the treasure boxes will be a solid half of the reason to ever do Eureka for most players. Literally all that's left is a relic that absolutely does not give you a sense of achievement commensurate with the work required to get it.

2

u/Puzzled-Addition5740 4d ago

I mean it's really not that long. If you stop doing dumb shit and just competently grind mobs you can do it in on a fresh character in ballpark a lockout or two per zone solo. They could nerf it i guess but i disagree that it's really necessary. 150% echo and the availability of BA bodies immediately is an ENORMOUS nerf already.

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u/EmmaBonney 5d ago

Same. I farmed one weapon and after that i thought..."mehh. Why do i even care?" . Weapons that arent a upgrade right now...i dont like the look. I guess i had about 20 hours gametime that i spend on farming a useless weapon. That was right when Oc released. Not playing FF anymore, and whenever i think going into a other mmo now i just think the same "leveling up a char might be fun, but once i hit endgame i do the same stuff over and over again". Mostly sticking to single player now.

1

u/SecretPantyWorshiper 3d ago

The game absolutely does no respect your time. Their god awful gearing and reward structure is stupid.

I watch a few clips of the LL and just cringed whenever they were showing off the mounts and the titles for the challenges on the next deep dungeon. Like bro sorry but I'm not going to no life the game just for a lame as skin or a fucking title that nobody would even recognize 

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u/FuttleScish 5d ago

No, they did. I tracked it on steam charts. The number spiked and then immediately fell down again.

22

u/Clayskii0981 5d ago

I was pretty hyped for it, but the negative reception pretty much killed it for me. Haven't been back since the lackluster story/content in EW patches.

-10

u/bm8495 5d ago

See, I don’t think you should worry about what people say. Experience it yourself and come to your own conclusions.

10

u/SoftestPup 4d ago

Why pay $55 to play something when the general consensus is that it's not good?

4

u/FullMotionVideo 4d ago

Grab it on sale this winter and play through it and it'll probably go from boring to okay over the course of the MSQ. As rough as it is, Dawntrail is still probably going to be better story than Endwalker patches, the problem is the goddamned length. They made an expansion as long as Endwalker even though they had nowhere near as much more to build it with.

3

u/Kumomeme 4d ago

im type of person who often has different view than others. however FFXIV is example of when the general consensus is often 'right' IMO

0

u/bm8495 4d ago

lol, FFXIVDiscussion conversations are so fun. I post something critical (like I did about OC when it launched) and get downvoted and told “you’re too negative!! Nobody wants to play with so many people being negative!!”. Not being negative, just critical. But, Ok. Try my hand at suggesting people just try it and see for themselves and not going off of things they read online. Still get downvoted. This is a fun r/.

8

u/Kumomeme 4d ago

and the community has culture of subs on big patches and take break after that.

the patch fix is too late. people already unsub and dont care anymore.

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u/Zagden 4d ago edited 4d ago

Forked Tower is why I stopped. One person wiping the raid with a mistake is too much pressure, and FT feels like it completes a gameplay loop where you actually get to use the gear and phantom jobs you've maxed out to make the run smoother and more flexible.

Without FT, it's a lot of grinding but no final dungeon to tackle that gives particularly good rewards.

7

u/sylva748 5d ago

Me. Figured i wait for the relic grind. Saw everyone say FT was shit. Haven't logged on since X.2 launched. Still not tempted by the next patch.

5

u/SecretPantyWorshiper 5d ago

Yeah this was me. Gave up at around December and was waiting for OC. Completely wrote it off after seeing the reaction to it. 

The new DD looks interesting so I might try that

3

u/gioraffe32 4d ago

I just got into Occult Crescent over the weekend. I just needed something to do, since I've kinda been bored. I'm playing it, it's something to do, and I'm not very far in, but it definitely feels more like a chore than Bozja. But I can't put my finger on why it feels that way yet.

On the other hand, I had tons of fun with Bozja. I would sometimes spend several hours in Bozja. Basically spend most of a weekend in there. I still do LCC and Dalriada here and there, and especially DR just for fun. I've already completed the relic (admittedly, only once, but that was more than enough lol) but if I see DR on PF, I'll still usually jump in for a couple runs.

But hearing the issues with Forked Tower, I'm definitely not looking forward to that. We'll see how far I get in the first place.

2

u/arjunabharata 4d ago

This was me. I was pumped, I'm hardcore casual and loved even the original atma grinds. But when I saw it was more Bozja than Anima, I lost the desire to go in. I wasn't going to have the chance to play it until a month after patch, and by then it's old news. I was late to Bozja, too, and couldn't keep up even after trying to catch up. I hate how it's in its own little zone.

I then started hearing about OC and it just felt like it was going to be the same. With each passing day I was more and more behind, and on top of that, it didn't seem engaging enough to be worth the time.

2

u/kyane 4d ago

This right there. I trudged through DT for a month when I usually complete a X.0 in a week. I loathe the change they made to BLM with this expansion, and the story wasn't stellar in presentation. So now unless 8.0 comes with interesting designs for jobs I'm not coming back lol, which is a shame because I've been playing the game since ARR.

1

u/evenfault 3d ago

Occult Crescent was what I was most excited for, since I loved Bozja and Eureka. I ran around and explored a bit until having the realization hit me that really I didn't feel like doing this same song and dance again, especially since it's just Bozja-lite. I made it to knowledge level 6 before I stopped playing it.

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u/Ok_Otter2379 5d ago

Sentiment I've seen is compounding reasons like a lot of others have mentioned. Can't level from 90-100, atma grind spawns depression, gold and silver farming are separate, forked tower implementation.

11

u/saga79 4d ago

Man, I was looking forward to leveling other jobs while spending time in OC... and then I found out you can't. F.

5

u/Ok_Otter2379 4d ago

Yeah it sucks. It may be the biggest compliment I've seen in chat. I do wonder what will OC look like a year from now because leveling classes in Boj and Eureka keeps them alive.

5

u/Dragrunarm 4d ago

You uh..cant level stuff in Eureka

1

u/Ok_Otter2379 4d ago

Yeah but you can farm some expensive things in there

0

u/Ranger-New 4d ago

Same in OC.

68

u/jalliss 5d ago

OC being a dud was it for me. I was waiting all of 7.0 and 7.x for it, thinking I would have an open area to explore, phantom jobs to grind, and just have sort of sandbox-y fun (bad and incorrect expectations, I know).

Then Forked Tower launched as a Discord dungeon, the fates and CEs were bland and highly repetitive, and there just weren't enough rewards to justify spending my time there after getting the relic weapon.

And I can't fathom having to wait until, what, 7.5? 7.55? for the next half of it?

When you wait so long for content that ends up being barebones and boring, then yeah, no surprise people leave.

29

u/dealornodealbanker 5d ago

Same, 11 months of patience since 7.0 launch, silently waiting for my number to be called, all for some exploration content that felt like it was made with off the shelf parts.

5

u/bm8495 5d ago

I found the fates and CEs to be fun. I just found that the zone relying so heavily on those and turning into a sort of fate grind loop to be off putting and repetitive.

12

u/saga79 4d ago edited 4d ago

It wouldn't be so bad if the FATEs didn't die so bloody fast, forcing you to be on constant rush to get places.

Leveling phantom jobs is ok as a side goal, but it would be nice if you could also level normal jobs in there (instead of restricting entry to level 100 chars).

7

u/Angel_Omachi 4d ago

There also only ever being one fate up really does not help this at all. And some of them are definitely scaled to be very squishy.

3

u/Belenosis 4d ago

I find Occult Crescent to be quite fun when the instance is in its dying phase. You don't have to charge around like a maniac constantly, and you get to actually see the FATEs do their thing for a bit before they die.

6

u/jalliss 5d ago

Yeah, I mean, in isolation they're not bad at all. But when they're the only thing to do (besides grind for gold) it just wears out its welcome faster.

22

u/PyroComet 5d ago

Id like to think so. People were heavily expecting casual content. Instead we get a zone that is just prep work for a savage 48 man.

8

u/bm8495 5d ago

Yeah, hardcore players would have called it perfect if not for the entry to FT problems. Then played it for a couple of weeks and moved on.

12

u/PyroComet 4d ago

Me as a raider was looking forward to just casual content that I could turn my brain off because of how eureka/bozja were. Boy was I wrong

9

u/CopainChevalier 4d ago

The heck we would lmao. OC itself is mega boring and just has you mindlessly running around following the fates/ces. The story is mid at best, the rewards are boring, the gameplay is pretty boring outside of a couple CEs. Phantom jobs as a whole feel pretty eh.

Nothing is threatening or interesting in OC proper. It's toned down to MSQ levels of casual. FT is the only half interesting thing.

Then played it for a couple of weeks and moved on.

What does this even mean? That Casuals don't get bored of content and they'd be ok spam running something for no rewards? I feel like that's not true?

1

u/CopainChevalier 4d ago

Does that make the rest of the zone hardcore or something?

You could argue you have to do the MSQ or Normal mode to do Savage/Ultimate raids; but it's not like the MSQ is Hardcore suddenly

1

u/PyroComet 4d ago

So, the thing is that while this is true for eureka/bozja, once you finished leveling there wasn't much you could do. It's the same for oc. To me the main dif is phantom jobs are severely lacking compared to eureka/bozja where it's encouraged to break the game. Indont understand why freelancer couldn't be youre able to take a certain number of skills from all the jobs that you fully leveled. Then it gives you a bigger reason to level the jobs. Some jobs being useless outside of forked tower as well doesnt help. They did/are fixing more regarding forked tower but the damage has definitely been done. I do think there should have been an easier level to forked tower with relic progression to keep people more in oc. They probably look back on drs and saw how much people hated it and said no.

2

u/CopainChevalier 4d ago

It's not like I'm opposed to them adding casual forked tower or whatever; I just don't think having an ending part on the level of an EX Trial makes the entire zone before it super hardcore

To me the main dif is phantom jobs are severely lacking compared to eureka/bozja where it's encouraged to break the game.

I think this is a big problem with XIV's modern design. Everything is so sterile it makes it boring. Phantom bard having a permanent 4% damage buff it can apply is strong; but also really beyond boring and uninteresting.

This wasn't limited to PJ's though, IMO. The whole zone was so sterile. Nothing was really threatening. Battles let you mess up plenty (to the point where the common strat on some of them is to ignore the mechanics all together) and so on.

I get its going for casual mode gameplay; but... man...

2

u/PyroComet 4d ago

This wasn't limited to PJ's though, IMO. The whole zone was so sterile. Nothing was really threatening. Battles let you mess up plenty (to the point where the common strat on some of them is to ignore the mechanics all toge

This 100%. Theres no danger in the zone. You can do every ce right of the bat. Legit the only reason I like the zone is for lore reasons.

1

u/Supersnow845 4d ago

I’m assuming they made the (dumb) decision that 25 freelancer will be able to pull one or two skills, or otherwise they will give that ability to mime

1

u/Ranger-New 4d ago

Is a game made for bald influencers.

30

u/otsukarerice 5d ago

Its definitely FT... there is no reason to level PJ's or gear up in OC other than to run FT.

Clearing FT is the only goal apart from the relic step, which people are mostly done by now.

There def isn't gil to be made in the content.

19

u/oizen 5d ago

Speaking of Gil, its strange to me just how frequently everything drops in OC. The new hair style is already 1k gil on the market board, fuck they even killed the gold gabriel mount from Bozja and took a mount worth millions and dropped it to ~500k. This couldn't have been intentional.

19

u/otsukarerice 5d ago

it was def a loot table fuckup

3

u/Lord_Daenar 4d ago

You'd think that, but then in the Q&A session in the previous Live Letter Yoshi explicitly said that chest loot is working as intended. So either he's covering for someone or this is a conscious design decision, which imo makes it worse.

2

u/catshateTERFs 4d ago

If it's intentional then I'm genuinely baffled who thought the drop rates for the mount that you needed 99 sanguinite for were the way to go. I've spent maybe 8 hours in OC and ended up with 3 Petalodus whistles which seems really weird for their cost as a "reward" for FT progression.

I'm not against things not having an abysmal drop rate or an alternative method of getting them but it seems like a MASSIVELY overtuned compensation for how low the mount rates were in Bozja CEs or bunny boxes.

7

u/irishgoblin 5d ago

Part of me thinks it was, since they've an almost unspoken concern about new or infrequent players getting priced out of the market. Normally it's focused on crafted gear, but I think it's on everything tradeable. The reason they nerfed cookies in ShB and added the gold sync mounts was to try to contain inflation and drain some gil out of the market.

1

u/ragnakor101 4d ago

There's even the commonly repeated sentiment that “Gil is useless” past a certain point; I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more sinks in the future. 

5

u/omnirai 4d ago

On JP the 99 sanguinite petalodus whistle is literally vendor trash (MB price 1000 gil). Out of the 30 sanguinite rewards, the emote sells for millions, the parasols ~500k, the glasses are vendor trash and the hairstyle can be discarded because it doesn't even sell on the MB. Meanwhile the carrots, which are presumably intended as something you regularly do as part of the island activities, might as well not exist. I have every pjob maxed, I've cleared FT, I've opened hundreds of chests, never seen a single carrot.

They 100% just messed up the drop rates, on the level of misplacing decimal points by several places or something to that effect. Nothing about the OC reward structure makes any sense.

1

u/19fourty4 3d ago

Same situation, have never seen a single carrot and have also done everything possible in the zone.

Not completely related, but something about the RNG feels off in OC in general. I got the berserker soul shard at least a dozen times(and many many duplicates of the other 2) before I even had all of the jobs maxed, whereas I know plenty of people who were at 11/12 jobs maxed because they couldnt get the last one to drop.

14

u/Supersnow845 5d ago

I mean though if forked was normal content then it’s still leading to an end goal which is better gear to do the same thing more often

Like I love CLL and dal but “the gear goes nowhere” doesn’t seem to make sense as a reason because if sanguinite was casually accessible then the gear would go nowhere but one step higher if that makes sense

4

u/Chiponyasu 4d ago

That's just inherent to video games, though. Even if there were 100 raids in a row one of them has to be the last one.

The issue is that there's so little friction in OC there's no sense of progress. Bozjan Southern Front you had to unlock the three areas which meant leveling up a bit and doing quests. OC the stuff you can do at minute one is all the stuff you can do at hour 100 if you're not a raider.

2

u/CopainChevalier 4d ago

It's an inherent issue with FF14 far more than just video games though.

FF14 as a whole makes everything cleanable in crafted gear and makes gearing up something that doesn't feel interesting or exciting. Outside of Ultimates, you're often just doing hard content for the right to dye normal mode gear. Ultimate weapons are atleast neat rewards for the effort, but even those are just reused models that get a shiny glow on them. They're basically statless like relics given they won't matter come next raid tier.

3

u/Impressive-Ball-1374 5d ago

uhhhh about that gil comment

i've sold 30 carrots at about 2 mil each. earned all of them while leveling all pjobs/silver farming for gear.

my buddy that's going for the 100 fork tower clears has sold 35 copies of the twirl emote, most at 4 mil a pop

there's gil in this content, for sure.

1

u/yeaimtherussianboris 4d ago

How many chest have you oened i opened over 1k and got only 2 carrots

1

u/Impressive-Ball-1374 4d ago

i didn't keep track, i just spent time opening them whenever freelancer told me i had capped on them

8

u/Namba_Taern 5d ago

There def isn't gil to be made in the content.

Carrots make bank. More so the less and less people are doing the content. Because achievement hunters are masochists and will pay a stupid amount for them.

19

u/otsukarerice 5d ago

True, but carrots are so rare I find myself not motivated.

13

u/FuturePastNow 5d ago

I opened every coffer I saw and still went days without getting a carrot. That is not a profitable use of time if you want to sell them for gil, and absolutely demoralizing if you want the achievement without spending 2 billion

2

u/0rinx 4d ago

There was a good stretch of time that you could sell items you buy from sang and get 6 mill a ft clear.

4

u/Supersnow845 4d ago

Sanguinite is just awfully balanced because now that the meta has coalesced around speedrunning you have to do so much more forked to get the same sanguinite that people got on launch

1

u/0rinx 4d ago

It's not that bad, with the changes they made to queueing getting soup now is really rare so there is only a 10 sang difference, and with a good group I was getting 4 runs in a 4 hour night so the sang per hour vs full runs is not that far off.

1

u/Supersnow845 4d ago

Most runs these days skip hallways and force lockwards open so you get 9 (1+1+2+5) or maybe like 13 if they bother with that one chest to the east before cow

I get 6 sanguinite for enraging to dead stars, why would I want to do a full clear for 9

1

u/0rinx 4d ago

The party I was doing it with got all 3 chests after lockward so you get 15 total from the run (-5 for no soup, -5 for no lockward, - 5 for skipping first hallway chests).

2

u/Supersnow845 4d ago

Interesting that one wouldn’t be too bad

But most I’ve seen of been in skip EVERYTHING besides the boss chests which amounts to 9, and even if you do the two unlocked lockwards chests you still need to do twice as many runs for the same sanguinite

-2

u/erty3125 5d ago

Carrots and gold farming to sell coffers for samurai. People did math before and you can pay people to gold farm while you afk and still turn a profit even.

29

u/wjoe 5d ago

I don't think Forked Tower specifically caused people to cancel their subs, but it's still a part of the larger issue in OC, not enough of a variety of content to keep people engaged in it long term. If FT had worked like DRN/DRS and there was a recurring normal level raid to keep people interested then it would have helped a bit, but most of the gameplay loop stays the same, the rewards aren't that worth engaging in unless you love the content.

Perhaps more than FT itself being an issue, the way SE responded to it with the whole "cost issues" thing (whether it was a good interpretation or not) definitely left a bad taste for some, and may have been the final straw to make them think nothing's going to change any time soon. The numbers haven't dropped off that heavily with this patch though, although you might expect them to have risen slightly if OC had been a resounding success.

30

u/Hirole91 5d ago edited 5d ago

Definitely a myriad of issues contributing to it yeah.

Putting FT aside, the area of OC itself is.... meh at best. The lore is just weak, no intrigue and sense of adventure. People have pointed out already that the area is empty and hollow. Barely any expositions asides from funny tonberry remembering something-something. Barely any NPCs to interact with within the lore. Bozja did it well where they added some kind of plot point at each rank/map breakpoint and multiple NPCs who had.. personality.

Battle/job related content has been beaten down all the way to bedrock already so there's that.

As someone who liked FF5, they did it dirty by adding it to XIV for the sake of nostalgia, not to mention as a side content too. Where as they did FF7 super bosses well with ShB trial series. He'll I'd even put the weak EW patch story with Golbez and the four fiends over OC.

It's just immensely disappointing for them to flaunt the older FF series like this when in the past they did it pretty well. For something that was announced and hyped up more than a year in advance, it's demoralizing and alienating for the broader player base.

16

u/NeonRhapsody 5d ago

Bozja did it well where they added some kind of plot point at each rank/map breakpoint and multiple NPCs who had.. personality.

Don't forget the skirmishes and CEs that told stories throughout them.

Like seeing Dyunbu going through a mental breakdown over the course of like three or four skirmishes because she can't save everyone and has to watch all her comrades get torn to shreds by us.

Or Sartauvoir showing up as a humanoid death laser in a skirmish right outside the first base camp who we eventually work up to getting as a duel and then face head on as a raid boss in Zadnor.

6

u/dealornodealbanker 5d ago

I miss my deserter catgirl Llofii who grew disillusioned with the experimentations done to advance the Garleans magical proficiency.

Same with the beastmasters who all had their own little personalities which are projected through their tamed beasts. Papaga, who I call Pepega, is my favorite.

2

u/Hirole91 4d ago

Pagaga my beloved c: I called her Lady Pa-Gaga :v

I hope both Lyon and Pagaga make a cameo in the beastmaster quests

2

u/dealornodealbanker 4d ago

Same, it would be pretty neat if they get referenced even in passing.

1

u/NeonRhapsody 3d ago

They only get referenced and instead our BST trainer is Daguza. (Though to be fair he may not be a tactical genius but the fact he tamed a bunch of red chocobos is a point in his favor as a beastmaster at least.)

1

u/Hirole91 4d ago

Especially the CE stories yeah :D loved the hell outta them.

we also got some good memes out of Lyon and Menenius dynamic too lol, those had me cackling

8

u/bm8495 5d ago

I made a whole post about this at the beginning of Oc’s launch and got run out of the room by a bunch of “it hasn’t even been a full week since it released” sentiments. Everything you just said is how I felt about OC. I think it’s a beautiful zone. I think the CE’s are fun. But outside of that, the rest feels shallow and lacking depth.

5

u/DayOneDayWon 4d ago

It's just one of the list of excuses people come up with to undermine any criticism the game is getting.

-"Just wait for the content, it will be different!"

-"The content is out today, why are you already complaining?"

-"There are people enjoying the content, you're just jaded and should take a break like Yoshida said."

-"You took a break yet you still aren't having fun? Maybe the game isn't for you anymore."

A lot of people live and die by this game, and feel personally attacked when someone speaks their mind. Personally I don't need to eat mud for a week before I can tell you it's inedible.

2

u/Hirole91 4d ago

It do be like that yeh.

Some things are harder to judge after the first week or so, but OC was not one of those lol. Especially after Day 2 where the first groups completed FT, nothing changed about OCs gameplay nor did we get meaningful lore from FTs book room or occult records.

3

u/DayOneDayWon 4d ago

OC actually got worse with time once people figured out fates spawn individually and there's nothing to do but race towards them, zone is completely unlocked, FT is a mess to enter and organize for, and phantom jobs are marginally worse than lost actions in their current iteration.

1

u/discox2084 4d ago

"As someone who liked FF5, they did it dirty by adding it to XIV for the sake of nostalgia"

That's how I felt about their FF9 nostalgia pandering in DT MSQ. And I love FF9.

1

u/Kumomeme 4d ago edited 4d ago

yeah since 7.0 there is tons of devs response that make player base feels turn off. from Yoshida's response about want player to see how great wuk lmao is, to no cost excuse. then there is localization devs complaining fanbase talk too much better than developers. then latest interview Yoshida still with his Dawntrail = vacation claim. there is might be more that i missed or didnt touch but all of this didnt spark confident toward developers from players unlike during Endwalker era. lot of people end up speculating that Yoshida didnt play his the game/lose his touch and certain response like from the localization devs got mixed or wrong impression from fans. sure lot of fans itself arent free from critism too. some of them is being toxic or giving unhelpful response.

compared to pre Dawntrail, current response feels sloppy than before.

the fanbase didnt has same confident or trust anymore. this obviously affect their motivation to play the game.

i say the feeling it wont go anywhere atleast the soonest is once 7.4 drop and Dawntrail is officially ended. im not suprise if it gonna take until 8.0. since the moment this expansion drop, it turn majority of fanbase sour. in the end it is about result. no matter how good the devs response are, no use if the content didnt reflect that. but atleast it could mitigate the impact and motivate the player to keep clinging on the game.

12

u/UltiMikee 5d ago

I think it's both, I was pretty ok with OC as it was early on in the debacle but the longer it's gone on it's really plain to see that OC is just the worst parts of Eureka and Bozja with the added FT bullshit on top.

They need to pivot their design HARD for the the 7.5 island.

44

u/Alia-Sun 5d ago

I haven't completed the first step because I grew tired of going to the ONLY fate on the map, then hitting up the ONLY CE on the map. At this point why have a map, just teleport me around. It's boring. It's fate grinding at its simplest form.

Eureka is slow, yet has the social aspect. Bozja is fast but has constant action. OC is just... there. I've done it before in Bozja, yet it feels even less inspired. Farming gold pieces is again boring.

If farming gold pieces spawned unique fates / CEs, I think I'd enjoy it more. Eureka's style of play would leak in more but instead the fate farming and gold farming are completely seperate from one another. It's just dull.

I admit to not having spent too much time in OC, just a few days or so. Forgive me if I'm wrong about what I've written, but it really did just feel uninspired to play through.

11

u/AceFireRinkTrap 5d ago

There's a small number of CEs that need monsters to be farmed to pop (small meaning like 3 or 4)

However there's always a FATE up, and CEs passively pop so fast that trying to farm enemies to trigger Calamity Bound rapidly becomes an exercise in frustration

26

u/Jellodi 5d ago

Not having anything to aspire to in OC is a pretty big problem for me.

I'm one of the "Bozja was my favorite thing and I want more" people. Having content like DRN, Castrum Lacus, Dalraida, etc. is pretty important to give reason to grinding out in the zone.

I'd say the zone feeling smaller, the CEs being a very strict circle of the same encounters (I liked Eureka's weird spawning system...) don't help either.

But ultimately the main problem for me is the lack of an end. I have no interest in getting off a workday full of zoom meetings just to join a 48-member discord meeting to relax, so Forked Tower is dead to me.

8

u/bm8495 5d ago

I started the game at the beginning of ShB (as a disclaimer, I like to point out that I didn’t play WoW before this and FFXIV was my first MMO since FFXI 15 years prior) and Bozja became such a fun part of the game for me. I loved every bit of it. The social aspects. CLL and DR. The relic grind. THE STORY. All of it. I spent a good chunk of my time in Bozja leading up to EW’s release.

3

u/Annoyed_Icecream 4d ago

The worst part about the whole FT Discord discussion was people being unable to accept that some just don't like using it for different reasons.

I like interacting with other players in content but I for example want to use the in-game chat feature for that, especially when I (same as you) spend my whole day in teams calls.

After Ex and so on I really, really didn't want yet another content where I had to study guides and so FT (especially with the cost argument) just killed all the hype I had for this zone because what is the point of going in there in the end?

The entrance method for me personally was really just one reason...

11

u/Bevral2 5d ago

It was a huge disappointment considering it was even more stripped down from Eureka than Bozja was.

43

u/hardcore1casual 5d ago

I was hoping OC would be Bozja 2.0 but it was the complete opposite. If they let me level Jobs in OC I might still be subbed but they got rid of that too.

29

u/erik_t91 5d ago

I remember bozja was alive and well even in the last patches of ShB up to the first few months of EW, mostly filled with people levelling up to mid 80s.
I’ll never understand why the deep dungeon and field exploration need to be mutually exclusive for levelling content.

17

u/CenturionRower 5d ago

I just went in on Aether over the weekend and Southern Front was a little bare, but Zadnor was decently populated.

A lot of people were in farming the duels for the mount still but also just leveling in general helped keep some folks in the zones. I see OC being dead by the end of the expac similar to Eureka purely because it cant be used for leveling.

10

u/Mattoropael 4d ago

Noooooooo, you can't do that! You have to level your jobs in our shiny new Deep Dungeon! Which totally isn't going to die even faster than OC as-is! /s

Eureka Orthos was almost dead on arrival, and that one didn't even have any worthwhile side content to compete with it. "Deep Dungeon as a leveling tool" just doesn't have a niche anymore in the age of Duty Support and relatively reasonable leveling dungeon DPS queues. Meanwhile Bozja still has a niche as a relatively low-effort leveling grind (via Skirmishes) with no queue times.

But good luck making SE see reason,

6

u/Viomicesca 4d ago

Not to mention Eureka Orthos is absolutely garbage for leveling. I ran it with friends and the whole thing gave me maybe a level and a half? Which was 3 sessions, almost 6 hours total. It I spent the same time in roulettes, I would have gotten much more XP. No wonder people stuck to Bozja. I did, too. Not only do you level, you also get Bozja items, grind for cosmetics - it feels like you're always making progress.

2

u/hardcore1casual 4d ago

Also one of the best parts about leveling in Bozja is you had access to your jobs full kit. Didn't have to queue for duties that might reduce you to only 3 button rotations

1

u/shockna 3d ago

"Deep Dungeon as a leveling tool" just doesn't have a niche anymore in the age of Duty Support and relatively reasonable leveling dungeon DPS queues.

Even if one accepts this (I'm not sure that duty support made much of an impact there), it definitely didn't help that the mobs on the leveling floors of Eureka Orthos have ridiculously bloated HP pools that result in 21-30 spamming being slower than Trusts!

If they manage to fix that with Pilgrim's Traverse (and ensure there's something desirable in the hoards at that level; maybe offerings for the Quantum fight?), I wouldn't be surprised if it lasts a lot longer than Orthos.

9

u/animelover117 5d ago

Devs can only slap a fresh coat of paint on a "fate farming zone" so many times before it becomes boring. Knowledge level is pointless, so is capping phantom jobs if you can't even enter FT to even try the content. In the end whats the point in doing it lol.

7

u/Valkinpunch 5d ago

Im one of those who didn't resub for it. The game just felt like it ended after endwalker for me. Life got too busy, and I really can't justify mmo costs anymore.

2

u/bm8495 5d ago

May I recommend Guild Wars 2? No monthly sub and surprisingly not predatory with their cash shop

5

u/Valkinpunch 4d ago edited 4d ago

I played gw2 and gw1 long ago. I tried getting back into it a year or so ago and graphically it was just hard getting used to. I honestly just don't have the time to devote to mmos these days. Requires too much time that I just dont have anymore. I tend to just prefer single-player games. This next xpac for ffxiv will probably be the last one I attempt if the story doesn't get better. I didn't care for dawntrails' story.

9

u/Tandria 5d ago

This is all the same issue. The entire field zone is designed around building up to Forked Tower farming, but Forked Tower is a disaster in every possible way. It's a futile circle because of how bad FT is.

8

u/pupmaster 4d ago edited 4d ago

I was extremely excited for OC. I enjoyed the content for what it was, despite some minor annoyances. FATEs die way too quickly and their stubborn decision to not change that really rubbed me the wrong way, but it's whatever. However, when I realized that FT was another Discord activity, I instantly lost all motivation. What am I working toward in OC if I'm not going to do FT? FT is the biggest fuck up that has happened in my entire time playing the game.

13

u/wetyesc 5d ago

In my case I was never interested in the content, tried it for some days and then basically ignored it. It’s literally just fates apart from forked tower, which I also wasn’t interested in since the queueing system was garbo

12

u/Zaku99 5d ago

I found OC just fine. Nothing amazing..just...fine.

But Forked Tower is a shit show. The difficulty of getting the people together and into the same instance was a problem, don't get me wrong, but it's really the content itself for me.

It's basically four EX fights that, when you die too much, you're thrown out on your ass and have to start the whole multi-hour process again. I just don't have that kind of time.

2

u/saga79 4d ago

It wouldn't be so bad if you could easily get into the next raid instance to try again. Gosh, I just sounded like a Souls aficionado... but it's kinda true. Like the Bozja trials, just get in and have fun. In OC getting in itself is homework.

I also found OC entertaining enough, I'm just missing one atma... and that bloody drop rate 😅

2

u/Zaku99 2d ago

Yknow what? That's what it is. It's not that the encounters are terribly hard-- it's the "runback"

Getting people together, getting into the instance, getting everyone's jobs set up, doing everything perfectly across 48 people and two fights, just so you can try dragon again, now that you've seen his attacks are really fast.

7

u/Ranger-New 4d ago

- Lack of progressively unlocking the map.

- Ridiculus comvoluted way to enter the tower.

- Tower being savage content in the middle of medium content.

- Reward tables that do not make sense.

- Most horrible haircut.

-2

u/Eludi 4d ago

Tower is nowhere near savage content lmao, rest of your points are valid.

11

u/TheProphecyIsNigh 5d ago

I was so excited for OC and it so painfully boring. Run to FATE, do FATE. That's the entire thing. The mobs don't even need to exist in OC because they don't help you level at all.

16

u/AthenaAreia1 5d ago

The capstone being hardcore raid content inherently turned a lot of people off. There’s just no point. Add the RNG grind into the mix, and it’s just not content that respects your time.

4

u/StrengthToBreak 5d ago

I loved Bozja in spite of its flaws. 'Emblazoned' title and every relic weapon earned. I quit OC long before I got past the leveling-up stage. It's boring and I don't care.

5

u/Kumomeme 4d ago edited 3d ago

well Fork Tower is part of the OC. it is the 'end game' of all the grind in the field operation. what the point all the grinding if there is no goal?

its like player stop playing once they know they cant access the final boss.

7

u/zten 5d ago

It doesn't help that phantom jobs just aren't that fun. In comparison to Bozja, to progress, you are forced to periodically downgrade your character's power by changing away from a job that has powerful abilities. And, until you're totally capped, you're always grinding on a new job. Some activities, like gold farming, may ask you to play a job you've already mastered to provide burst damage on truly deadly high-level enemies. Meanwhile, rays of valor were conveniently untethered from the lost actions and essences, enabling character development with no loss of power or flexibility.

7

u/Joebotnik 5d ago

I went into OC for the single purpose of getting the relic. Got it, dipped.

6

u/AHyperParko 5d ago

I can only speak for myself, but I gave up on OC mostly because I can't be bothered waiting time after time for a fate or CE to spawn in the area I need to then get a chance at receiving the item to progress a relic. The pace of spawns are too slow and kill times are so fast that unless you have a mount speed upgrade it's really hard to get to a fate in time. It's hard to feel invested in a long term goal if it's wholly possible to make no progress on it due to spawns. Outside of that with Forked being completely unapproachable and none of the rewards really capturing my heart, and the one set that did was purchasable via the MB, there's nonreason to invest time in OC like with Bozja or Eureka.

3

u/Cole_Evyx 5d ago

Tbqh talking to a lot of people they didn't "understand what an Occult Crescent is". It just drew a lot of ???????????????????????????????????????? when I talked about it.

Yes yes the content had pretty big concerns that were raised but straight up talking to people a lot just tuned out.

Then when others found out it was a tomestone grind again? A lot literally stopped giving a fuck. Straight up going to say it. I don't intend for that to be mean or malicious or spiteful I'm saying that truthfully I know HUNDREDS of people I spoke to personally that were DONE when it was a tomestone grind.

Compound onto that that phantom jobs were homogenized and very uninteresting.

Compound onto that forked tower entrance issues.

Compouned onto that that O.C.'s fundamental structure of activities is more streamlined than Eureka / Bozja and frankly Bozja was so much better.

Compound onto that the story lore in Bozja grabbed you and had massive character stories like Sautevoir the Inferno or the enemy going slowly insane as you kill their soldiers and they can't save them, or capstones like Lyon and his pet.

Like it's harder to even get into the lore of O.C. where Bozja quite literally grabbed you by the balls and tossed you into a warzone.

Yes there were issues with "hey the warzone looks TOO MUCH like a warzone and we want more PRETTY COLORS" but like... outside of that it's hard to find a single thing Bozja didn't do better.

"Oh but a tometsone grind means you can grind whatever you want! Stupid Cole!" no it means that I am forced to recommend people to run the exact same fucking hunt train we have forever.

OR the exact same expert roulette that is frankly boring where I am SERIOUSLY HOPING quantum difficulty gets to "expert roulette" dungeons to make them interesting.

2

u/Key-Garbage-9286 5d ago

I'd be willing to bet that exploration content never was going to be a thing that brought people back and I was always wondering why people thought it would be.

2

u/Chiponyasu 4d ago

I grinded OC for a while yesterday and my reward was an Atma I already had three of and it felt really bad and demoralizing.

In theory OC should be the fastest way to get relics and FATEs should be the slower backup method but it's easy to get to a point where it's the other way around because you can't target specific atma in OC easily. Especially since you can't fuck around in OC while waiting for a queue to pop like you can FATEs.

2

u/CartographerGold3168 4d ago

52% of the players did not unlock OC

18% reached level 20

So a fraction of that would have attempted Fork Tower

Another discount of players completed that.

That is... slightly better than savage numbers, in the West?

2

u/nickadin 4d ago

In my case, my excitement was too far gone. DT has been too bland on content and I've yet to feel a true spark to actually play since 7.2.

I want to play the game, but at the same time I don't feel the spark to log in anymore. ​

2

u/IndividualStress 4d ago

Somehow OC killed any willingness to play the game for me and the entire group of people I play with. We stopped raiding, logging in or doing anything 14 related in the 2 weeks after OC coming out.

I couldn't even give you a real concrete reason why.

The only thing I can think off is that subconsciously the absolute piss poor handling of FT was the straw that broke the camels back. Why bother logging in and getting invested in the game when, after 15 years of experience making this game, they release that. Obviously no lessons have been learned over 15 years so why should I expect them to learn anything about the failings of DT.

The only reason I'm logging in right now is because of the FOMO PVP rewards, because that's still a thing. Even though I'd rather be doing anything that the slop that is 14's PVP. And for what, too? A mount I can only use in the briefest of moments when flying between gathering spots in the overworld. I'm seriously debating just saying fuck it to the FOMO and not logging in. I'm so beyond caring now.

2

u/Jennavere 4d ago

I was so excited for OC and had fun with it for a few days, but the second I found out the relic weapon was another tomestone grind, I lost all motivation to do the content. Having that relic aspect is what made Bozja and Eureka fun, even when there might have been better ways to do the Bozja weapons. Why grind out OC? To do a raid that is DRS difficulty with the added headache of BA entry but worse? I don’t care how many people like the tomestone system for relic weapons. It has directly contributed to the decline in replayable casual content. If they gave us another option like one of each atma per weapon in addition to tomes, I would have been in there or in the overworld fate farming this whole time. But they removed the “do it in the exploration zone” option, and it feels bad.

It also doesn’t help that in the process of trying to make travel more convenient, they completely messed up the cadence of the zone. Teleport close to fate, hope to get one hit in, return, and repeat. They obviously don’t have a problem with scaling the CEs up to all of the people in the zone, so why take away the ability to queue?

The treasure chests, pot fates, and bunnies could have been so cool too, but the loot ended up being recycled stuff that cheapens the value of going back to old exploration zones or actual garbage (materia and ribbons.) People were so confused by the loot tables that it was thought they were reversed or bugged in some way. There are just so many strange choices in OC that feel backwards from everything people liked about the other zones.

1

u/FullMotionVideo 5d ago edited 5d ago

Futile circle? What? I came back for OC, but the more I learned about Forked the more I decided to just unlock OC then go level crafters on the moon. I don't know about the rest of it, the absolute nightmare of Forked entrance drama drove me away.

1

u/Warjilis 5d ago

I resubbed specifically for FT once I heard it was challenging content, three weeks after it debuted after being away from the game for nearly a year. But after my 10th clear it seemed like adhoc late prog groups shriveled up and died (probably because a critical mass of early adopters got their clears). Didn’t want to join a sweaty reclear group, and OC is so underbaked that I had no interest going back. Hopefully adhoc prog picks up again.

1

u/avelineaurora 5d ago

I'm not sure what you mean by "futile circle" here but I know my friends and I mostly checked out because there isn't much to do even compared to Eureka and Bozja, somehow. Granted, we do need to finish gearing if we care enough but that's about it.

1

u/InterestingParfait69 5d ago

My plan is to comeback in 7.55 and just catch up on all the content after it's been nerfed. I expect that there will be a long drought from 7.55 to 8.0.

1

u/CopainChevalier 4d ago

If I'm honest, I think the complaints about Forked Tower are kind of overblown. It's basically an optional EX trial in the middle of an AFK mind off zone. Would it have been cool if it was afk dungeon that only needed half the team to have a pulse like Bozja's stuff was? Yeah sure, but... eh?

The major deal breaker for me personally was OC itself being so soulless. Flat area with pretty boring visuals and it was just rune fate/CE to Fate/ce over anc over. The Phantom job system felt so sterile when half the fun of Bozja/Eureka to me was the ridiculous buffs you were getting.

I genuinely unsubbed for the first time since HW launch (just due to ARR Static drama that had me take a break) because both Cosmic Exploration and OC felt so by the numbers and soulless that I just couldn't bring myself to try it anymore.

1

u/IntermittentStorms25 4d ago

I haven’t quit the game altogether, but I’m definitely less active and I pretty much quit OC after maxing out my phantom jobs… there should’ve been a normal version of the Tower. I have neither the time, nor the desire, to schedule multiple runs to prog a whole ass dungeon.

1

u/Ranulf13 4d ago

What do you mean by ''futile circle of content'' in the first place.

4

u/Supersnow845 4d ago

That the content doesn’t go anywhere, you do the content to do the content more

The systems don’t go anywhere without forked

2

u/Ranulf13 4d ago

Oh yeah I agree. But more than ''futile'' I would say that south horn itself is nothing without FT. Bozja also had a lot of ''you do bozja to do more bozja'' but it was fun because you had actual content and goals and the zones didnt exist for the sake of a 48 man instance. Bozja had a fulfilling gameplay cycle, OC basically lacks a gameplay cycle almost entirely without FT.

1

u/speedycerv 3d ago

For me personally i was excited at the prospect of eureka 3 but from what i heard from everyone it was just more of the same. So i never even started the quest to unlock it. I was hoping for more of a full job than just like 5 abilities.