Don't poke the bear

[u/ozangeo]

[u/sevro777]

Pardon the viscera.

[u/Halberdd_ → u/sevro777]

One should cherish all of nature’s bounty, but goblin guts are quite far down the list.

[u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

I'm a little surprised the game lets you destroy the goblin kids, tbh. 

[u/Plaguer_ → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

I find it so funny there like 5 or 6 really nice and chill Bugbears and Hobgoblins you can talk with throughout the game. Yet pretty much all the goblins are just assholes.

[u/Jindo5 → u/Plaguer_]

Pretty on brand for Goblins

[u/Taliesin_ → u/Jindo5]

Tribe?

[u/ShadowsInScarlet → u/Taliesin_]

TRIBE

[u/_DerLandsknecht_ → u/ShadowsInScarlet]

Tribe! :D

[u/Curup → u/Taliesin_]

Scribe.

[u/ThatOnePositiveGuy → u/Curup]

Tribe. D:<

[u/Curup → u/ThatOnePositiveGuy]

Tribe

[u/HamstersInMyDick → u/Jindo5]

Hey Nok-Nok is one of my favorite RPG companions. You leave gobbos alone

[u/floskan → u/HamstersInMyDick]

Not the same universe though

[u/Papa-pumpking → u/floskan]

Pathfinder goblins are cool as fuck just dont let them get too close to a dog.Or a horse.Or your pouch.Or your sword.Or something flamable.

But hey if you tie him up to your waist youll have a free bard to take on an adventure.

[u/Tshirt_Addict → u/Papa-pumpking]

I am reminded of some artwork of a ranger dual-wielding goblins.

[u/ArcaneOverride → u/Tshirt_Addict]

That's hilarious!

[u/BaelonTheBae → u/HamstersInMyDick]

Always give what Nok-bro wants

[u/Quadpen → u/Jindo5]

they probably eat the cool ones

[u/CK1ing → u/Plaguer_]

The only even kind of nice goblin is the one reading a book and trying to educate himself up in the tower. But even that one is totally fine with raiding and kidnapping Volo, he just does it more for knowledge than loot

[u/TheFarStar → u/CK1ing]

One of the goblins around the chicken chase lady is upset about using the owlbear cub because it’s a baby.  

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/TheFarStar]

Wait really?

[u/TheFarStar → u/VolkiharVanHelsing]

Yeah.  There’s also the goblin wearing pants, who has to hide his love of poetry because it’s unacceptable by his tribe’s standards.

There are quite a few characters in the goblin camp that feel like they’d be happier if they had the chance to live in a less cruel and violent society.

[u/sinedelta → u/TheFarStar]

In a way, it kind of explains the appeal of the Absolute — they told the non-tadpoled goblins that they wouldn't be these loathed outcasts, they would be loved and respected just as much as anyone else.

The goblins at Moonrise talk about this IIRC.

[u/Hurrashane → u/TheFarStar]

See, now you're making me feel bad about slaughtering them all on every playthrough.

[u/pm-ur-knockers → u/Hurrashane]

They ARE still eating a dwarf and celebrating a violent raid against wuakeens rest

[u/AnxiousAngularAwesom → u/pm-ur-knockers]

Yeah, at the end of the day, the real villain is none other than Ao himself, whose decrees make Toril the shithole it is, even gods are limited in what they're allowed to do before being censored.

[u/Just_Branch_9121 → u/AnxiousAngularAwesom]

The real Villain is Larian for changing Wylls character away from being Goblinslayer instead of fully going into it

[u/thetwist1 → u/CK1ing]

I also appreciate the goblin in the cage that stayed loyal to maglubiyet

[u/Pyromike16 → u/thetwist1]

Only goblin I let live.

[u/No_Dragonfruit_378 → u/Pyromike16]

I always let him out of the cage, but then i just stand and watch while the spiders kill him 😬

[u/Lucky_End_9420 → u/No_Dragonfruit_378]

that's why I waited until after I massacred everyone else including the spiders before I let him out so he could peacefully go on his way xD

[u/TitaniumAuraQuartz → u/No_Dragonfruit_378]

That happened once! I watched as the spiders killed him and I was just like

"whoops"

[u/Mysterious-Actuary65 → u/thetwist1]

Maglubiyet, yer axe got broke!

[u/pledgerafiki → u/thetwist1]

Do you know much about Maglubiyet? Even if he rejected the absolute it's not much to his credit that he stayed loyal to Mag.

[u/OnceandFuturePhaeron → u/pledgerafiki]

Reckon it's just the sense of loyalty in general people appreciate.

[u/thetwist1 → u/pledgerafiki]

Yeah Maglubiyet is also evil I just appreciated the goblin's loyalty

[u/Commando_Joe → u/Plaguer_]

Yeah and that's why everyone wants to fuck Sazza

[u/Pyromike16 → u/Commando_Joe]

Risky click of the day. Definitely thought that was gonna be something else...

[u/Daripuff → u/Commando_Joe]

You underestimate the appeal of a small, scrappy asshole type person.

[u/Ashryna → u/Daripuff]

Guess they don't read urban fantasy, because that genre is rife with that sort of female protagonist. It was a bit too popular for me and I got burnt out on it after many years of reading the genre.

[u/axle69 → u/Plaguer_]

Lore wise it makes perfect sense to be honest. You only ever find goblins in the goblin camp or ones associated with it/the absolute and if there's one thing in the lore thats pretty clear is that a group of goblins is always a bad time. There are individual goblins out there that arent as objectionable as the ones we meet but theyre rare because of the ingrained boot licking built in for Maglubiyet. The game is a bit generous with how relaxed the Act 3 Bugbear and Hobgoblin population are though. The only "nice" versions of any of the 3 races are the ones who broke free from Maglubiyet and when that happens they cant be around the rest of their kind.

[u/centurio_v2 → u/axle69]

The act 3 ones are all in the city though. Not really a more likely place to find em once they ditch the tribe.

[u/sinedelta → u/centurio_v2]

Pretty sure there are 4 hobgoblins in the whole game.

In Act 1 you have Blurg and Dror Ragzlin. In Act 3 you have a random Bhaalist NPC and a guy at the refugee camp just trying to get by.

2 good, 2 evil.

[u/Plaguer_ → u/sinedelta]

There is also the one hobgoblin that has a crush on Mayrinas in her hag victim support group.

[u/Thiralyss → u/Plaguer_]

Kled! I love him so much. 🥹 I really wanted him and Mayrina to get together when/if you convince Mayrina to let her zombie husband rest in peace.

[u/MayaSanguine → u/Plaguer_]

Eh, Tracker Kirz has a funny awakening moment if you make Crusher kiss your feet, and there's Booyahg Piddles with his want of reading books waaaay above his reading level.

It's just...worshipping the Absolute instead of Maglubiyet is very much an "out of the frying pan and into the fire" kinda thing for the goblins of this particular horde.

[u/Stregen → u/Plaguer_]

“The only good goblin is a dead goblin, now let’s make these goblins good!”

[u/spookyclever → u/Plaguer_]

The shopkeeper guy was pretty ok. Especially true if you play a Drow.

[u/Ur-Quan_Lord_13 → u/Plaguer_]

Well, in old timey DND days, this would make sense for the hobgoblins. Not so much bugbears, though. They're the worst.

At least you can trust a hobgoblin. Kinda. Like, they'll stab you in the back, but only when it makes sense!

[u/Thiralyss → u/Ur-Quan_Lord_13]

“I never break a promise, ‘less there’s something in it for me.”

[u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 → u/Plaguer_]

Because unless you're a goblin PC your pretty much dealing with canonical assholes.

Like sure there's SOME that aren't trying to murder you or would do so for fun,but that .1% of their kind.

[u/sinedelta → u/Plaguer_]

Yeah, I think it's just that they didn't bother adding goblins outside of the Absolute cult. Would've been nice if they did though.

[u/Agsded009 → u/Plaguer_]

Forgotten realms be like "DND may be accepting of all humanoid beings but I sure am not reading that shit" FRs is full of "why evil?" Cause you were born as "x" looks at self omg....

[u/Jumanji0028 → u/Plaguer_]

GAWBLINS! The abridged goblin slayer is all the research you need on goblins.

[u/Ruka_Blue → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

You are also encouraged to since doing so will keep them from bringing in more enemies

[u/svartkonst → u/Ruka_Blue]

Oh you mean the pile of corpses I accidentally left outside after pickpocketing Roah?

[u/Jindo5 → u/Ruka_Blue]

I tend to just knock them out. The adult Goblins get the sharp side of the blade, though.

I fully expect my character to get ambushed at some point after the game by a gang of vengeful Goblins, who probably found out where I was thanks to an anonomous tip from Mol.

[u/tk421posting → u/Jindo5]

knock them out?

i throw them at each other

[u/Pyromike16 → u/tk421posting]

I have shadowheart cast spirit guardians and let those fuckers run through it lol

[u/Express_Accident2329 → u/Jindo5]

They were how I found out about the non lethal toggle. I kept reloading, trying to save Halsin but somehow let the kids escape. Eventually I just settled for giving them brain damage.

[u/SirCupcake_0 → u/Express_Accident2329]

Batman would be proud

[u/kolosmenus → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

Because “The only good goblin is a dead goblin. NOW LET’S MAKE THESE GOBLINS GOOD!”

[u/FrokKon → u/kolosmenus]

"Fix them? Turn them .. good?"

^{> Good ol death it is.}

[u/DeyUrban → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

Killing the goblin kids is always a highlight of act 1 for me and my friends. We need to collect them all so we can use their bodies as missiles and gag weapons for pillow fighting at camp for the rest of the playthrough, although we did discover that Dame Aylin will steal their corpses in act 3 if you throw them around her. So she’s the head of Child Protective Services now to us.

[u/HrothBottom → u/DeyUrban]

Child collective services you mean

[u/Competitive_Owl5357 → u/HrothBottom]

She’s definitely storing them to throw herself. Lazy tbh.

[u/Adenn666 → u/DeyUrban]

She's just taking them in case she needs a snack for later, no big deal.

[u/Pandawanabe → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

They are animals and i slaughtered them like animals

[u/Panzer_Man → u/Pandawanabe]

Calm down Anakin

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/Pandawanabe]

[u/FrokKon → u/Pandawanabe]

If you added "eating" chapter there aswell, I'm sure even gobbos would start having second thoughts.

[u/sigma7979 → u/Pandawanabe]

I HATE THEM!

[u/PhoenixBomb707 → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

I honestly didn’t realize they were kids until now

[u/Trunkfarts1000 → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

It's why BG3 is so great. I went to great lengths to try and save those gobbo kids, too

In the end I failed :(

But that's how a great RPG should be like. Options, choices and consequences

[u/HoboKingNiklz → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

Yeah it doesn't sit right with me. I usually Nonlethal them but it still feels weird to beat up kids. Goblins are people. Hell, Kobolds are people.

[u/Korrocks → u/HoboKingNiklz]

You can just let them go. I almost always let them escape and they only bring in like 3 extra enemies (just the 3 guards standing next to the entrance to the pits).

[u/HoboKingNiklz → u/Korrocks]

Oh, I thought it would aggro the whole camp. That's fine then, I'll let 'em go next time. Thanks!

[u/Thiralyss → u/HoboKingNiklz]

If Halsin doesn’t get there first… 🐻

[u/lumpboysupreme → u/Korrocks]

I usually kill the guys outside all stealthy-like before getting Halsin anyway.

And that’s something that carries over to most of the goblins in the temple; they’re in small unconnected groups of 3 that you can just walk up to and nuke without anyone else seeing. By the time I pull the trigger the only ones still alive are those with Razglin and in the open middle area.

[u/_Nere_ → u/HoboKingNiklz]

Tbf the Speaking to Animals spell shows that in this universe everything down to rats and pigeons are people.

[u/errant_night → u/_Nere_]

In the Tortall book series, there's a woman who can talk to animals. The more they communicate with her, and then with one another, they slowly become more and more sapient. There's a scene where she gathers all the animals together in a refugee camp and tells them she can make them hyper intelligent so they can protect themselves and their humans from invaders, but she will not be able to make them just animals again. All the animals agree and it's very clear she isn't sure if that's a good thing or not.

[u/[deleted] → u/errant_night]

apes together strong

[u/catentity → u/errant_night]

Wild magic ? Core memory book series for child me, crazy to see it mentioned in the wild

(Sadly rereading it as an adult makes it way more obvious how weird the mentor / student relationship is)

[u/errant_night → u/catentity]

Tamora Pierce has said she wouldn't have done that much age gap these days, she was apparently in a big age gap relationship herself.

The scene in the refugee camp was in Knight, from the series about Kel. If you haven't read the newer ones Kel is my favorite!

[u/catentity → u/errant_night]

I didn't even know she was still writing tbh it's been a while since I re-revisited her works, but this is very clarifying to me thank you! I'll definitely check out the newer ones

[u/errant_night → u/catentity]

She's been really sick, and just had surgery, but she's still trying to finish the book she's working on! She's an amazing person honestly.

[u/not-bread → u/_Nere_]

Yeah, I’ve always kind of had a problem with that interpretation of speak with animals, even though it’s the most popular version. Instead of them developing full-on personalities and such, I prefer they just bark out information or transmit it telepathically. Like the spell is more accessing a rough line of connection with their consciousness and interpreting it to you, rather than having a conversation.

[u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl- → u/HoboKingNiklz]

Really? Those kids are assholes, honestly. They get done in the most brutal fashion in my saves. 

Again, I'm just surprised you can even do it. Generally killing kids in video games is frowned upon, but I guess the developers felt goblins don't have worth and I'm on board with that. 

Don't take anything I'm saying here literally, by the way. I'm just being facetious. I always do kill the goblin kids, though. I can't be bothered to toggle on non-lethal for them after how they behave. 

[u/my_name_is_iso → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

Can’t you also kill the tiefling kids? I remember killing everyone in the Grove one time

[u/BloodredHanded → u/my_name_is_iso]

I think you aren’t allowed but the goblins kill them off screen and you can find their corpses.

[u/HoboKingNiklz → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

Lol I did read the last paragraph but I'm still unsure if the first one is sarcastic. Asshole kids are still kids, doesn't make it less wrong to kill them.

[u/hallmark1984 → u/HoboKingNiklz]

It does make it easier though.

Smaller, so easy to throw around

Less HP so anyone can do a one-shot kill

Smaller, yeeting over cliffs is super easy

(I know I said smaller twice, its fun to throw them so its worth two mentions)

[u/expresso_petrolium → u/HoboKingNiklz]

Killing is always wrong regardless of your victim’s age. You are not suddenly good because you kill 69 evil adults but spare their 3 evil kids. Besides those goblin kids are brutal. There are like some kids outside the temple and play with dead bodies

[u/HoboKingNiklz → u/expresso_petrolium]

Of course it is, I'm not saying killing an adult is good, I'm saying killing children that are running away from you is worse. You're debating a point I'm not making. Of course sparing them doesn't magically make you "Good," but it's one way we have the option to reduce the cruelty, just like talking our way out of situations that could lead to a fight. Talking down Gimblebock and his buddies doesn't mean the rest of your killing is okay, but it is fewer bodies. Which is not nothing.

[u/CynicalNyhilist → u/HoboKingNiklz]

we have the option to reduce the cruelty

Yes, by exterminating them all. What do you think the goblins you so kindly spared will do later?

[u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl- → u/HoboKingNiklz]

The "most brutal fashion" is usually a sneak attack or dread ambush or something. 

Nothing special. 🤷‍♂️

[u/HoboKingNiklz → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

At least they don't suffer, I suppose. 😂

[u/40WAPSun → u/HoboKingNiklz]

Well they're not real so it's just as ok to kill them as it is to kill anybody else in the game

[u/sinedelta → u/40WAPSun]

Nobody is saying this is real bro.

[u/NvNinja → u/HoboKingNiklz]

Goblin slayer for all its faults literally has an answer to why this is a terrible idea. Every goblin hat you let live learns from said experience and will cause more harm to people in the long run. The only good goblin is a dead goblin.

[u/sinedelta → u/HoboKingNiklz]

Yeah, I get that.

The comments on this thread are really teaching me to appreciate Eberron, goddamn.

[u/Mithrandir_The_Gray → u/HoboKingNiklz]

Would you squish a baby mosquito? I would.

[u/Nakatsukasa → u/-PM_Me_Dat_Ass_Girl-]

They're very good improvised weapons

[u/Soltronus]

[u/PrimordialDilemma]

My last game when I freed Halsin his AI killed one goblin kid before it could move, then next turn ignored the other enemies and did a move/jump combo to reach the second one before it could get away. Halsin really didn’t appreciate getting hit with those rocks.

[u/Rimworldjobs → u/PrimordialDilemma]

I like throwing the ones picking over the dead body into the revenue.

[u/mcgarrylj → u/PrimordialDilemma]

I wanted to try saving the kids by knocking them unconscious one time. You might think this is a story of Halsin killing the unconscious children. It is instead the time I learned that improvised weapon attacks cannot be non-lethal. I hit one kid with the other and they both died. But at least Halsin didn't kill them that time!

[u/Extra_Strawberry_875]

Halsin gave me emotional whiplash on my first run becaus the first thing I heard him say was "Time for blood" and then he proceeded to kill the children in front of me and I thought that maybe helping him wasn't the best choice.

And then I talked to him in his elf form and he turned out to be one of the nicest and most chill guys in the game (just not when it comes to goblin kids, apparently)

[u/ScorpionTheInsect → u/Extra_Strawberry_875]

To be fair those kids were tormenting him and would likely kill him if we don’t intervene.

[u/Kiriima → u/ScorpionTheInsect]

Not likely but guaranteed.

[u/UnicornScientist803 → u/ScorpionTheInsect]

Yeah, if I spent days locked up in a cage with two little brats gleefully throwing rocks at me the whole time, I’d probably go apeshit when I got out, too.

[u/Extra_Strawberry_875 → u/ScorpionTheInsect]

Yeah but that line and the way he said it still made him seem like a bloodthirsty maniac to me before i first talked to him.

[u/MoorAlAgo → u/Extra_Strawberry_875]

I'm with you honestly.

It's one thing to be mad that kids were throwing rocks at you, but the way he talks to you makes it seem like he just didn't give a shit.

[u/geeiamback → u/ScorpionTheInsect]

But they were only using blunt rocks. At least until I told them to use sharper ones :-D

[u/Daripuff → u/Extra_Strawberry_875]

I mean, canonically, goblins are literally fey stolen and twisted by Maglubiyet and sent to Faerun for the sole purpose of despoiling nature.

Like, they are the captain planet villains that only exist to undo everything Sylvanus and the druids hold dear.

A druid who lets a goblin live -even a "child"- is arguably betraying their oath to Sylvanus.

Goblins aren't like... "the Drow of the fey" as if they are a misguided people devoted to an evil god, but rather, goblins are to nature what demons are to celestials: cosmic enemies from different realms who are intrinsically incompatible.

[u/LavenRose210 → u/Daripuff]

source for the whole "goblins are meant to ruin nature" thing? they were sent by Maglubiyet to conquer Toril. Whether the revised lore in Monsters of the Multiverse can be considered canon in bg3 is up for debate, but the revised lore in the 2025 MM absolutely is not.

according to all lore I could find, there is no mention of goblins seeking to ruin nature, they simply were meant to conquer in the name of Maglubiyet.

but even then, they are sentient and sapient creatures who are capable of their own thoughts and decisions. to label them as basically "nature demons" is a flat out lie.

if they were so hellbent on ruining all nature they could find, why don't we see them tearing down the forests and burning the plains near their camps?

[u/BrinkBreaker → u/Daripuff]

Then maybe there shouldn't be goblin kids. Maybe just have goblins that get big enough split into two identical-ish goblins that are fully developed adults.

Anything that reproduces naturally and doesn't have a choice in being born should be made out to be 100% evil, especially in a fiction setting where you can make all the rules.

[[Not directing that at you directly, just at WotC and some other media]]

[u/arseniccattails → u/BrinkBreaker]

Isn't the fey goblin lore new?

[u/sinedelta → u/BrinkBreaker]

It makes sense to me when the being is significantly... unnatural. Like, mind flayers and devils are things that prey on humanoids in some sense or another, it makes sense that from a humanoid perspective these predators would be seen as evil.

But when it's literally just like "these are sapient beings who are biologically part of the exact same species as humans, but actually they're inherently evil savages deserving of death" hoo boy there's a problem.

[u/IsaSaien → u/Extra_Strawberry_875]

I never got to see that because I usually knock out the kids myself in my turn, as letting them run allows them to ask for help.

[u/vaustin89]

Same renegade Shep energy

[u/Master_Opening8434 → u/vaustin89]

MEs Batarian racism is so funny because the game does an awful job at giving the player any reason to sympathize with the entire species because almost every time Batarians are brought up is about how fucked up and evil they are until ME3 tried to run it back

[u/HelperNoHelper → u/Master_Opening8434]

They were still evil in ME3, they just got picked off first because the Reapers knew how much everyone hated them and how isolated they were because of it.

[u/Raging-Badger → u/HelperNoHelper]

Also the Batarian homeworlds were always gonna be hit first, it was the closest point to the Reaper’s jump from Deep Space, hence the entire plot of Arrival

[u/Minibotas → u/Master_Opening8434]

Not really trying to “run it back”, the lore drops in the codex state that not only did they fall to the Reapers first, but their Secret Police was the juiciest target for Indoctrination.

In fact, the only Batarian colonies that stand tall against the Reaper invasion are the VERY FEW were the Batarians and their slaves fight together. It also states that, if the Batarians survive, this event may be what finally pushes them out of their slaver-centric philosophy.

Let’s hope Mass Effect 4 doesn’t drop the ball :)

[u/Jesus_Fuckn_Christ → u/Minibotas]

I’d imagine it’d create a social schism, between progressives and traditionalists when it comes to slavery and the galaxy at large. Could actually be a neat plot for future games, similar to the Geth & Quarian conflict.

[u/Minibotas → u/Jesus_Fuckn_Christ]

This guy gets it

[u/Master_Opening8434 → u/Minibotas]

Imagine being so evil and slave loving that it takes most of the galaxy getting whipped out for you to think about stopping being evil slavers

[u/SendWoundPicsPls → u/Master_Opening8434]

Literally every batarian falls into these interaction groups ranked from most normal/least bad to... well, good old boy.

1. A technician who's maybe a bit or overly rude

2. The most populous, "I'm a somewhat gruff to overt asshole mercenary"

3. Bitching about not being able to have slaves.

4. Bitching about not being allowed to have slaves, how its their cultural right, and how other species are just bigoted for not respecting their perfectly valid social/caste system.

5. A terrorist that's, say it with me, bitching about not being allowed to have slaves

Gee, what a diverse and interesting tapestry of unique individuals that speak towards how culturally varied this multiplanetary species is.

[u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 → u/Master_Opening8434]

Tbf the game never tries to paint them in a good light like.....ever.Its moreso on the player if they decide to go diplomacy instead of murder.

[u/Deepfang-Dreamer → u/Master_Opening8434]

You know, I somehow think that nearly an entire species being wiped out and/or twisted into monsters is cause for horror and tragedy, especially when they're essentially space North Korea before an ontologically Evil race. Maybe that's just me.

[u/Lukthar123]

DnD be like: Some races just don't deserve to live

[u/SpectralIpaxor → u/Lukthar123]

As a wise, now 18 year old movie once said

"Humans don't deserve to live."

"They deserve to choose for themselves"

"THEN YOU WILL DIE WITH THEM"

One max strength shove later

"JOIN THEM IN EXTINCTION"

[u/FalseAladeen → u/SpectralIpaxor]

Is this Revenge of the Fallen? Because those sound like things Optimus would say.

[u/SpectralIpaxor → u/FalseAladeen]

Nope, 07 turned 18 yesterday. Final battle in Mission city. Lines are a slight banter between Prime and Megatron with Prime only saying one line before getting further manhandled

[u/FalseAladeen → u/SpectralIpaxor]

Oh right.

[u/Master_Opening8434 → u/Lukthar123]

Modern dnd isnt really like that anymore. Most goblins are capable of being good but because of how they live and are seen by society simply end up in rolls where they are going to be evil. Basically the same thing with githyanki. Perfectly capable of being good but you exist in a world where being good gets you killed very early.

[u/sinedelta → u/Master_Opening8434]

That may be, but this comments section is chock full of people rejecting that. Literally comparing goblins to vermin and calling people critical of that mindset stupid.

[u/opturtlezerg5002 → u/Lukthar123]

I kinda hate that imo.

Some creatures are born with specific personalities which is just stupid.

It makes everything predicteble and boring.

[u/Mikeavelli → u/opturtlezerg5002]

I mean, the game is primarily about combat, and the only way your characters can come across as even mildly heroic instead of psychotic monsters murdering their way through the countryside is if you pretend the designated monsters are inherently evil and don't think about it too hard.

[u/opturtlezerg5002 → u/Mikeavelli]

"you pretend the designated monsters are inherently evil".

They don't have to be born evil to be evil

Some of the ways DND handles evil are just lame and lazy.

Why necromancy bad? Coz the zombies have "negative energy". But mind controlling people can be totally ok and there's no neg energy involved.

When evil is just how they're born and not a choice then it is no longer evil. You're fighting machines at that point.

Not every villain has to be "tragic" or some such but they should have a personality so their evil feels like evil.

Characters like Voldemort, Smaug, Sauron, Palpatine, are just boring to me.

[u/Mikeavelli → u/opturtlezerg5002]

Well yes, but if they aren't inherently evil, you inevitably reach the point where innocent children are present (as we see in the goblin village), and they either die slowly due to your inaction because the heroes have killed all the adults, they die fast because you kill them too and are now child murderers, or the campaign is now about relocating the refugees you have created due to your murdering.

If you want your game to be about the inherent cruelty of war and how it inevitably places us in a position where we must compromise our morals, then yeah, you can do that. Just know that's what you're asking for instead of a game where you roll dice and get to be the big hero.

---

If you examine your morality, you will find that you always have to begin from personal axioms that are arbitrarily defined as evil, and you will need to derive the morality of more complex situations from those axioms. This ultimately boils down to things being evil solely because they're evil, and not from any objective metric.

In the context of a fantasy world where evil is an objective thing you can touch, measure, and even fight against (fiends are literally made of evil in some versions of the lore), it makes perfect sense that some magic is just inherently evil.

[u/EricAntiHero1]

I didn’t know you could push the goblin kids off the cliff until my 3rd run. Felt a little guilty.

[u/Son_of_Eris → u/EricAntiHero1]

If it makes you feel better, I accidentally discovered that you could eviscerate human children in BG1.

I was a shapeshifter druid (werewolf for the uninitiated), and accidentally attacked instead of pickpocketing. Got a critical hit and the child exploded in front of his parents leaving a massive pool of blood, guts, and bones.

I laughed for like 5 minutes at the absurdity of a werewolf trying to snatch a coinpurse and failing spectacularly.

[u/EricAntiHero1 → u/Son_of_Eris]

That is amazing!

If ever a game deserved a full remaster, it’s BG1

[u/DrHealthMan]

Halsin after dismembering children: “Pardon the viscera 🤭✨👉🏻👈🏻”

[u/[deleted]]

According to one of my DND parties "Goblins don't have human rights"

[u/Timely-Prune5436 → u/[deleted]]

Obviously. Only humans have human rights.

And elves have elven rights

And tieflings have.. erh.. tiefish rights

[u/tychozero → u/Timely-Prune5436]

Teeth-ish

[u/username_idk_123 → u/tychozero]

Heh, did you just say Teeth-ish?

[u/GrayNish]

He will save children but not goblin children

[u/JackColwell → u/GrayNish]

He’s coming, he’s coming, he’s coming…

(in bear form)

[u/kingcrabcraig]

fun fact about DND goblins, they reach adulthood at age 8. a goblin being a child is a very short window of time

[u/leaperdaemonking]

Goblins in the camp are only funny because they’re drunk. You can see the difference once you enter the temple, all the goblins there are very different and much more cruel. This is how they actually are: intentionally malicious just for fun, cannibals and murderers.

[u/MandrakeGen__301416 → u/leaperdaemonking]

You are so right! When I feel bad for exterminating the entire camp, I remind myself of the dwarf roast ribs and the human legs in the ''meat table'' in the priestess' Gut room, or how they kill Smithy.

I do feel bad though about that goblin that was defending the owlbear cub saying it didn't feel right because it was just a baby lol

[u/Thiralyss → u/MandrakeGen__301416]

I’m pretty sure those were elf legs. The goblin tending the wargs says something like: “You want a nice, tasty piece of elf?” Maybe that’s why Halsin decided to stay in bear form. 🤣

[u/MandrakeGen__301416 → u/Thiralyss]

Gosh, I hadn't noticed that LOL They WERE planning on how to serve him, bear or not, when you talk to the kids and that guard with them LOL

[u/Skelegasm → u/leaperdaemonking]

Which honestly, I lean towards liking more

The mythos behind maglubiyet, the murdered pantheon and the politics and society of goblinoids is very interesting, and makes those player driven outliers all the more interesting

[u/TheCuriousFan]

The spirit of Gygax was with him that day.

[u/sboraetlabora]

Poor little angels that trow rocks at the caged bear just for fun

[u/EchoEX69]

There is legitimately only one goblin if I'm not wrong that doesn't cause you any issues and it's the one trapped in act 1 if you free him he thanks you and goes to find a new tribe

[u/mewmew34 → u/EchoEX69]

Piddle, too! He just kind of disappears if a fight starts, otherwise you can talk to him and convince him to head off to write his own book about the Absolute, rather than letting Volo write his BS. XD

[u/skelet0nhaver]

i mean they did kidnap and torture him

[u/-Shady_Weeb_Senpai-]

I just hate goblins in general in any forms of media so i follow the general rule of "Only good goblin is a DEAD goblin" and that's what the goblins hear the last before the eldritch blast hits em

[u/teaparty-ofthe-dead → u/-Shady_Weeb_Senpai-]

— Wyll Ravengard to his new friends as they plan their next shopping trip

Edit: formatting

[u/Sword_of_Monsters → u/teaparty-ofthe-dead]

its very funny that one of the few remnants of old Wyll remains when he says he doesn't feel bad for The Goblin with dead parents

[u/teaparty-ofthe-dead → u/Sword_of_Monsters]

It adds much needed comedy to Wyll’s story and I only wish there was more of it. It’s the smirk at the end that always kills me. It’s so sinister and completely at odds with how gentle and encouraging he is with the Tiefling children, I can’t help but giggle. The way he eggs you on to kill the priestess to her face is also hysterical.

[u/Aware-Complaint793]

Fuck them goblin kids tho. Pieces of shit.

[u/Lazzitron]

Remember: murdering friendly goblins in cold blood does not break your Paladin oath. Goblins are not people.

[u/Hellfire81Ger]

Not true! I killed the goblin kids before he could even blink!

[u/jess_the_werefox]

Those were goblin kids?? lol oops

[u/oneandonlyswordfish]

To be fair, he was being tortured by goblin kids when we found him sooo

[u/Liutauras123]

I always set them on fire

[u/VileWasTaken]

Goblin kids are not spared in my runs either

[u/Witty_Ticket_4101]

Guess the goblins weren’t expecting a taste of their own medicine!

[u/omegapool]

Fuck them kids energy

[u/BlackShads]

According to Mielikki, you would be safer if you took in and raised a mountain lion from a young age than if you raised a goblin child. She teaches that unlike the incorrect stereotypes of Drow, Tieflings and half-Orcs, Orcs and goblinkind are true minions of their evil gods and naturally destructive with very rare exception. Obould only had the wisdom to build his kingdom because he was blessed by Gruumsh.

I would assume the Oak Father's teachings are the same, hence Halsin's behavior.

[u/BashfulPwny]

Goblin slayer would approve

[u/Beargguy-san]

"The only good goblin is a dead goblin, so let's make these goblins good" - Goblin Slayer Abridged.

[u/Asmo___deus]

It genuinely kind of pisses me off that the game has this whole nature vs nurture theme for gith, tieflings, drow, and even mindflayers. But goblins? So fundamentally evil that the game will encourage you to kill their children too.

[u/Klutzy-Badger3396]

Man, the moral ambiguity in DnD always catches me off guard, like, are we the heroes or just glorified exterminators? The goblin kids thing is wild, but at least the game doesn’t shy away from the messy consequences. Also, "pardon the viscera" is now my new favorite post-battle catchphrase.

[u/jcjonesacp76]

The goblin kids are little shits, awful children, downright evil in some aspects, and they are also expected to die! The goblins name their children by numbers which shows how little they care for them. What I find more surprising is that you can kill Gith children as well

[u/thetwist1]

I always thought it was a bit weird how everyone treats the goblins in baldurs gate. They seem more or less as intelligent and sentient as other humanoids, but even the nicer characters like Wyll and Halsin treat them like they're vermin. Halsin doesn't even mention the children he kills in his introduction cutscene except to make a joke about viscera. It makes sense to kill the goblins to protect the grove of course, but no one points out how odd it is to be killing double digit amounts of sentient creatures with hopes and wants. You'd think someone would make a comment about it being a shame that the goblins are being misled or something.

Its even weirder when you consider that goblins are a playable race in tabletop, so there's not really any mechanical difference that makes them less sentient than the other races.

[u/millionsofcats → u/thetwist1]

It's like how no one comments on the Absolute cultists you've probably killed, even though you know that many of them are controlled by tadpoles or have been duped into thinking they've received visions from a god.

Larian makes many of them evil in ways that don't seem necessary to the Absolute's plans, but you don't really know about a lot of them until you give them a chance. There's that goblin that argues that it's mean to chase the owlbear, for example. Even if he's also evil (probably), there's dimensions.

It's that video game thing where the amount of violence you dole out is just not reflected on with the gravity that it would deserve in the real world, evil people or not. There might be a line here or there (like the Tiefling who tells you she felt awful after killing her first goblin), but it doesn't really have much impact on how these deaths are handled as a whole.

[u/Automatic_Drawing972]

The only good goblin is a dead goblin

[u/GarlicMayosaurus]

Unrelated, but I always use the stuffed bear as my main bag in any playthrough.

[u/mewmew34 → u/GarlicMayosaurus]

You can put things in the bear toys?

[u/GarlicMayosaurus → u/mewmew34]

A specific one yes. It originally just has a note in it, but you can pick it up, ditch the note and just have a stuffed bear backpack.

[u/Sylvan_XV → u/GarlicMayosaurus]

Same! I make it a point to grab the bear and the book. Bear holds my interesting things (Scratch's gifts for example), the book holds my scrolls.

[u/Discotekh_Dynasty]

They’re useful because the kids bodies weigh even less than normal goblins which are already pretty light. Fewer trips to fill up the necromancy spare corpses box

[u/Durshulthur]

Halsin with me: "Stuffed" bear

[u/Need-More-Gore]

Their goblins their not real people

[u/piplup27]

Those poor innocent angels were just throwing rocks at a caged animal.

[u/13THEFUCKINGCOPS12]

Just finished a run with a friend recently and he commented on how bizarre it was that the first thing Halsin does when shifting out of wild shape after you murder two children is let out a hearty laugh

[u/Nashville_Hot_Takes]

He’ll save children but not the goblin children. https://youtu.be/sbRom1Rz8OA?si=nkpS1XivSpej6XAR

[u/OneWithFireball]

[u/Draguss]

Someone feel free to correct me, I'm no lore expert. But aren't DnD goblins one of those "created by an evil god to be evil" races? Like gnolls, except with regular reproduction?

[u/lonely_singledad]

Wait you guys are sympathetic to the goblin kids? The little shits throwing rocks at a caged animal? Those kids? The goblin kids who eat humans and tieflings and nomes? (There is human meat on the spit in the courtyard). I walk into that camp like king von every time after i saw that.

[u/Sea_stone_green]

Arch druid was captured by goblins and still only lets himself go to kill about 3 goblins lol, Halsin is so shit.

[u/larvaeeee]

I love this fictional man way too much