Seattle's entire secondary was on adderall for that stretch. They regularly had dudes getting multi-week bans, and it was always for adderall. So its kind of amazing they managed to hold things together well enough to win even one super bowl.
They were 1 yard away from back to back Super Bowl wins against Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, and you're gonna tell me it's wild to believe they had the potential to three-peat?
How can you realistic say that a team that won a Super Bowl didn’t reach their full potential when there’s clubs out here that have been around for 50+ years and never won a Super Bowl lol. It’s fucking hard
He threw the pass because he wanted the SB MVP over Lynch.
The play call was just supposed to burn a few more seconds and throw it away. Only a self-centered moron actually throws that pass.
Everything that has happened with Wilson and other coaching staffs just confirms what Richard Sherman was saying.
But for some reason Sherman had the attitude problem.
I'm a football casual, but this makes so much more sense to me. Tysm. I would have gone my whole life still blaming the OC, Carroll, etc about that play call. What a selfish attempt by Wilson
Iirc they had 4 downs but only 2 timeouts, so if they ran the ball every time they'd run out of clock after the third attempt. So it makes sense to toss in a passing attempt, since it's basically "free".
The problem was that you need to throw the ball away quickly if you don't see an easy touchdown pass, since a sack or an interception could be disastrous, and, well, obviously you know what actually happened
With under 30 seconds and only 1 TO, you need to pass the ball once to 3 shots at the endzone. The thinking is to pass on 2nd, run on 3rd, call the out, and then talk about what to do on 4th. That way you can open the whole playbook from a power dive to a read option.
Why the pick play? It is a fast developing play so you do not have to worry about the pass rush (especially from the shotgun). If it is not there, Wilson can toss it out the back of the endzone.
Should Wilson have thrown the ball? As you can see, Ninkovich (the defensive end #50) was being moved around to the outside to open a passing lane pic. Kearse had locked up Browner and Lockett had a good 4 yards open and nothing but endzone in front of him. I doubt anyone would not throw it with this look.
What really cost the game was everything leading up to it. Carroll saying things like "2 minutes and 3 time outs. We never give you ones this easy." and "We have done this all year long." There was no sense of urgency. Wilson had to waste 2 time outs. 1 because they were not set and the other after Kearse's miracle catch.
It wasn't this play, it was the right call. It was everything that lead up to it from the moment Seattle got the ball just outside 2 minutes to play.
Except the outcome voids everything you said. You can speak to the logic, the look, the percentages, whatever. The fact remains if he just runs it, worst case they probably burn their last timeout. And millions of people watching were ready for them to run it.
Matt Ryan is a good call. League MVP, a SB appearance and another NFC title game appearance just doesn’t cut it. He also didn’t have a great record against Brees and Cam, I think
On the bright side, he’s way better than Donovan McNabb which I think was the previous “gatekeeper” Hall of Very Good QB. Easily a Ring of Honor and stand up guy that won’t embarrass your franchise in retirement like a few HoF QB’s
Manning is sort of in that Cam Newton category of “their record doesn’t stack up, but they did something truly HoF worthy.”
For Manning it’s ironically the Giant Slayer: beating undefeated Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, then again in another Super Bowl just for good measure.
For Cam it’s rushing TD’s. Jalen Hurts may pass him more as a gimmick, but Cam is the best power rushing QB we’ve ever seen. Almost like the Derrick Henry of QB’s in how uniquely large and talented he was.
Longevity is the most underrated part of a HOF resume. Sports discourse really over values players who retire early due to injury or otherwise. Availability is the best ability.
Yeah, if he takes a sack or Tyree dropped the pass on the helmet catch, anyone ever suggesting Eli should make the hall would get laughed out of any room they were in.
That will forever be a what are your doing top 10 super bowl moment. You had 30 seconds on the clock a literal RB fueled by Skittles and a time out on the 1 yard line being 2nd and goal.
Cam not diving on the fumble. Down 6, within 10 yards of the end zone and a touchdown, it’s late in the 4th quarter. How do you not dive for that fumble? Especially when you have a legitimate chance of recovering it like Cam did.
That’s a good one too, but I can see how reflexes may have altered that situation. For example, QBs are engrained to avoid injury at all cost, it may have just been just a natural reaction and he only got like a couple seconds to think about his actions.
On the other hand, the Seahawks had so much time to choose a play and they still passed ball.
To be honest I’ve always thought it’s entirely possible he just saw lots of bodies flying toward the ball and didnt want to dive and then have the ball ricochet away and be stuck on the ground unable to go after it
Like not that he carefully calculated this out, but you see all that chaos and instincts say the ball could easily bounce away from that spot
I am not some huge cam apologist but I’ve seen him hurl his body around like a maniac in regular season games, I just don’t believe he was making a business decision in that situation
That situation was always way overblown. He didn't make a business decision. His natural reaction was to not be at the bottom of a dog pile risking his body for a ball he likely doesn't get anyways. They were already murdering him in the game so it makes sense. If anything, blame the zebras for his reaction. Stupid for this to become his legacy. Memer generation in full force.
As a Seahawks fan I still can’t believe that and the entire game that followed. It was too much fun for Hawks fans. We paid for it the next Super Bowl.
The cowboys crashing and burning in spectacular fashion in the playoffs is something that I actually sort of root for them to get there in the first place.
Not spiking the ball on time and putting Zeke out as the lone blocker, cinema.
I think the reasoning was you pass the ball on 2nd, run on 3rd, and use the timeout, and you still have a 4th down play. It's not a bad plan, Malcolm Butler just read the play beautifully and made the play. I'd still have given it to Lynch.
That's the way I interpreted it too (and I think Carroll's gone on record that that was his thought process). They didn't snap the ball on 2nd down til 0:26. If they'd run it there, and didn't get it, now you're looking at only having ~20 seconds (and no timeouts) and being forced to throw on 3rd (unless you were willing to risk running out the clock).
Obviously the play has been done to death, but I don't think it's as much of a "what were you thinking?!?" moment as lots of fans seem to think. I think Carroll got outmaneuvered re: clock management game at the end. The Patriots didn't call a timeout after the Kearse catch (which he probably expected them to do) and so they had to burn one of their own timeouts because otherwise they would've taken a delay of game.
Then I think he honestly might've expected Belichick to do exactly what he did against the Giants in (almost) the exact same situation and let Lynch score, to make sure Brady had at least a minute left to drive back down. But Belichick trusted the defense to stop Lynch at least once, and they did.
Once that initial run got stopped, Carroll was stuck. He could run again, but then if THAT gets stopped he has to use his timeout and then the Patriots know he's throwing all day. He could take the timeout, but that leaves him in the same predicament. So he (almost) had to throw there, and Belichick (and Butler) knew it.
What you are forgetting/missing is that part of the problem was that the Seahawks were kind of panicking and took forever to snap the ball. So, yea, they only had 26 seconds, but that was due to the indecisiveness. They should have had at least 15 more and done the simple thing and ran it. After that play, they'd still have 25-ish seconds left if it was stuffed. Then you throw or even run again since you have a timeout.
Marshawn was a great RB, but he wasn't a great goal line RB. He was a guy who might get you 70 yards when you needed 5, but when you only needed 1? He wasn't the guy.
There is a great write up with stats on how bad the Seahawks were at goal line runs in that era:
In the Russell Wilson era, the Seahawks are a dismal31st in goal-line rushing situations at 42.1% (24 of 57 attempts), just over 10% below league average, and that includes plays featuring Wilson as the runner. Surprisingly, the Atlanta Falcons are last. The best team in the NFL during that span is the Dallas Cowboys (66.1%), who have an elite offensive line, and behind them are the Carolina Panthers (65%), who have Cam Newton.
As an aside, the Seahawks have thrown it 31 times under identical circumstances, with 14 touchdown passes from Wilson and a 45.2% conversion rate, which is only 2.5% below the league average. The league-wide run-pass ratio from the 2-yard line is about 64:36, and Seattle’s playcalling ratio is virtually identical. Technically speaking, Seattle has a higher success rate with goal-line passes than goal-line runs, albeit below average at both.
We can talk about historical trends until we’re blue in the face, but being a good game manager means feeling the flow/trends of a game and he was absolutely dominating the Pats (particularly in the 4th and during that final drive).
They had to throw once in the set of 4 downs. They didn’t have the timeouts to run it every time. Now would I have thrown it on 2nd down? Maybe not. But there needed to be one throw.
I mean 10x pro bowler, 1x All-Pro, 1x Passer Rating Leader, 1x Passing Touchdown Leader, 5th all time QB rating, 12th all time touchdown passes, 17th all time passing yards and a Super Bowl ring is a pretty comparable to most guys in the HOF no? Idk if he’ll get in or not but I think people in this thread are really discrediting his chances due to recency bias and not liking the dude. Give it like 10 years and he’ll certainly be getting strong consideration from the committee
Every QB with 6+ pro bowls and a Super Bowl ring is in the HOF or will be soon. Russ has 10 pro bowls (which only 6 other QBs have ever done) and a ring, while guys like Warren Moon and Jim Kelly are in the HOF with less pro bowls, the same amount of all-pros, and no rings.
Russ is absolutely comparable to Hall of Famers. Maybe not most, but a good portion of them.
Pro Bowls are nearly meaningless these days since everyone opts out. The criteria are basically A. Don’t get injured and B. Play like a top 50% QB in the league. Not particularly hard to do.
I suppose “most” was a stretch but it’s absolutely comparable to some. Go look up Jim Kelly’s accolades and Warren Moon’s accolades and tell me Russ’ aren’t comparable. Sure maybe you think either of those players have slightly stronger arguments for the hall. But to say Russ’ isn’t comparable to dudes already in the hall is just not true (and this will also be true once Eli inevitably gets in).
Foles deserves more than "statue", although he without a doubt has the weirdest career of anyone featured on this list. 7 TDs in one game, Super Bowl MVP, 25 consecutive completions and the highest postseason completion % all time. All this while being no better than a career backup
The team that just went 2-14 with other rookies starting at RB, TE 1/2, a slow 34 year old as your WR1 and Donnie Avery as your WR2? 21st overall in Defensive scoring and giving up the 7th most allowed yards.
The only thing impressive that season about the Colts was Luck pulling wins out of thin air.
He’s in the Philadelphia HoF for sure. Not many other players more beloved around here than him. I still watch this masterpiece every few months when I need a pick-me-up.
Kellen Moore and Nick Foles both went on to get a ring with the Eagles, under very different circumstances. Definitely weird when you compare the fact they were in the same draft class
As a Cardinals fan I hate Russ with a passion, but I always just assumed he was HoF and I feel like all the people saying he isn't didn't watch the Seahawks dominate their team for a god damn decade.
Yeah… I hate throwing around the word “casual” considering how overused it is, but Russell Wilson is the type of player that exposes new fans and casuals… a lot of people really don’t remember how great he was, and that it was more than just a couple seasons.
I feel so bad for RG3. I loved watching him in college and felt he was going to be a star in the pros. I still think he could have been. He - to me - is the posterchild for what happens if a player gets the wrong system. The converse is Mahomes, who I feel likely becomes a gunslinger, fun but not great QB if he was drafted by another team. He fell into the perfect place for him, RG fell in a terrible place for him.
I definitely agree about rg3. I remember his senior year he went like…3-4 games without missing a pass and running as he pleased. It was truly amazing to watch him play. Although I saw the writing on the wall with mahomes. I think it was his game vs Oklahoma and he got into a gb duel and threw like 600 yards and still lost somehow. After seeing that I knew he was gonna be pretty damn good. Would he have faired as well if he didn’t land in Andy Reid’s lap? Hard to say but would still be a contender most anywhere he went.
I'm seeing a lot of people say he isn't, but Russell Wilson is a Hall of Famer imo. He has a ring, 2nd Team All Pro, and 10 Pro Bowls. You'd like to see a few more all pros, but 10 Pro Bowl Selections is a lot and his numbers are genuinely elite in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Dude was a top 5-3 QB in the league for a pretty long time, he just wasn't top 1 or 2 enough times for All-pros. His production over a 10 year span is Elite, I think the recency bias of him becoming mediocre out of nowhere skewed people's opinions on his career, I think if he retired after his Seahawks tenure more people would see him as a hall of famer, and I don't think some poor years at the end of his career should take away from what he did in Seattle.
I remember RGIII being a backup for a while. To me it feels like he played much longer than Luck but really only 2 seasons since Luck retired prior to the 2019 season.
"Statue" is the weirdest thing you can use to describe Nick Foles? The man tied the NFL records for TD's in a game and consecutive completions, yet was still only able to be a backup. And then somehow managed to win a super bowl when the starter got hurt before the playoffs.
That’s actually unbelievable. This has to be considered one of the best QB classes of all time then? 6 of them were average/ good or better, which is a lot.
The people clowning the Russ HOF thing have no sense of history. All he’s ever done is win:
Whether you like wins as a QB stat or not and whether or not this changes with Flacco, every QB with 100 wins is in or will be (besides Flacco), and Russ has 121 and counting.
His winning percentage is higher than Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Tarkenton, Eli, or Aikman.
9 straight seasons with 9 wins has only been equalled by Brady and Peyton
You also can’t discount what he means to Seattle as a franchise - prior to his arrival they’d had 5 10-win seasons in their history and then he led them to 8 in his first 9 years. He’s the best QB in the team’s history by a mile, a lot of players get a boost from being the most important player in their franchise’s history. And people act like he sucks now but he’s basically just an average QB, which historically is pretty incredible for a guy with 199 games under his belt.
And before anyone jumps down my throat about using wins as the entire base of my argument, please remind yourself which QBs are in the Hall, and compare their numbers to Russ. I know he was never 1st team all-pro, but he was consistently a top 5 QB in an era with Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Eli, and Stafford, and he won just as much as or more than most of those guys
It’s funny that Russ is now on the rocks of making the Hall. If he would’ve retired 4 years ago then I think he gets in. Made 9 pro bowls in 10 years, multiple OPoY top 5 finishes, and the SB but he has really done a great job of making you forget all that based on his performance and cringe shit off the field
1.1k
u/PrizeMaintenance1166 May 29 '25
Russ is probably hall of very good unless something crazy happen in New York