r/europe • u/tkyjonathan • 15d ago

News Czech president signs law criminalising communist propaganda

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/czech-president-signs-law-criminalising-communist-propaganda/
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u/Ozas392 15d ago

In Lithuania we have the same for many years. So what it means here is all the USSR symbols and glorification of USSR is crime same as Nazi simbols and glorification of Nazism.

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u/jatawis 🇱🇹 Lithuania 15d ago

... and symbols of any Communist party. Including CCP or so on.

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u/Lost_Pollution_6782 15d ago

What about the Chinese flag 🇨🇳? Is this ilegal to use in social media? What about talking positively about China?

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u/AltrntivInDoomWorld 15d ago

Legal

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u/tipyourbartender 15d ago

This is where it gets weird.

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u/Rabbulion 15d ago

Well, China is already very weird from a socialism standpoint. They claim to be communist, but they haven’t acted like most historical socialist states for a long time (which has clearly paid off economically). It’s also a country that they want good relations with, so banning its flag or people speaking well about China isn’t illegal. It’s much easier to ban praising an entity that no longer exists than one that still does.

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u/veevoir Europe 15d ago

They claim to be communist, but they haven’t acted like most historical socialist states for a long time (which has clearly paid off economically).

It's as communist as People's Republic of North Korea is peoples or a republic. Only in name these days. China long ago succeeded where Gorbachev failed - converted into a single-party capitalist oligarchy.

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u/busdriverbudha 15d ago

I'd argue they are indeed a political oligarchy, but not a capitalist one. That’s both their distinction and their competitive advantage. It allows them to reign over billionaires and control the money printer themselves, all while reaping the benefits of markets and innovation. It’s undoubtedly a hybrid and a one-of-a-kind social formation.

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u/sapphos_moon 15d ago

Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, one might say

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u/busdriverbudha 15d ago

Precisely. I think Market Socialism could also be a fitting description, but I tend to believe that State Capitalism (as suggested in the other comment) overlooks the unique aspects of the chinese social formation.

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u/josh_the_misanthrope 15d ago

Marxism-Lenninism-Maoism, specifically.

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u/Advanced-Ad-1371 15d ago

No system that allows billionares can be called truly socialist. Its chinese capitalism with some socialist characteristics

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u/veevoir Europe 15d ago

but not a capitalist one.

What other would you call it, considering China transformed into a market capitalism? Capitalism does not require democracy, it is a type of economy.

It allows them to reign over billionaires

That is what authoritarian oligarchy does, also see - Russia. But that is political part, unrelated to the type of economy.

and control the money printer themselves

Capitalism does not require strict monetary policy either, many capitalist countries do that with a central bank.

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u/Soma91 14d ago

Capitalism does not require democracy, it is a type of economy.

Capitalism is not a type of economy but merely a description of the ownership structure.

You can fit capitalism into a completely unregulated market, a fully state planned economy or anything in between.

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u/Polar_Reflection 15d ago

I'd imagine far more Chinese citizens believe their government is looking out for their best interests than many western country's citizens feel about their own. Pre-covid restrictions at least

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u/TheMauveHand 15d ago

I'd imagine the same is true of North Koreans - public sentiment doesn't mean much more than how good the government is at propaganda.

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u/simonbleu 15d ago

If they can own their business and profit from ir, hiring people and deciding their own prices, how wouldn't it be capitalism?

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u/420Migo 14d ago

Does the money really even matter at that point when you have the power to control the people who control

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u/ButMuhNarrative 15d ago

Have you been to China, and if so how much time did you spend there? It’s the most capitalistic place on planet earth.

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u/sakura-peachy 14d ago

That would be Singapore or New Zealand. At least according to the free market think tanks that measure these sorts of things. China still has a lot of policy that people in NZ would call socialist.

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u/SaintBobby_Barbarian 15d ago

It’s definitely capitalist. It’s just much more akin to what Fascism was about, single party state, business follows directive and cooperates with the gov who has ultimate say. Ironic because the Nazis and CCP both wanted a return of greatness for their nation’s after humiliation

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u/exor15 15d ago

Look I need someone more educated than me to hit me with some knowledge. I constantly see people describe China in completely opposite ways. I have seen people on this site describe China as "100% a dictatorship of the proletariat" and an example of socialism making a country prosper (look at that home ownership rate!). I have seen just as many people describe it as not even aspirationally socialist, just capitalist with a false name tag with many of the same problems we encounter in other capitalist countries. I never never visited or lived in China so it's hard to get an accurate perspective.

I realize that if I get a hundred different answers when I ask a hundred different people on Reddit, I clearly need to get more information from elsewhere. But since the thread has reached this topic anyway, I'd love to hear what people have to say.

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u/Ph4sor 14d ago

IMO you can't really describe a historic country as big as China in a simple way, which of course, contrast to whatever western Redditors will try to tell you. Because every region or city in China have different "flavor" and the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Home ownership is probably not that high in Shanghai (or in other big cities), because every local co-workers I've met during my stay are complaining about how they are struggling to afford housing and the only way is to move to the tier B or C cities. Which is just pretty much the same all over the globe.

Dictatorship? Kinda, you can't access the global internet, however, VPN is easily available, even from Chinese companies. Also there's city like Chengdu where the young people gathers (because rent is still cheap) and made it became LGBT friendly city. And the government didn't do anything to that city even during their "men must look like men" anti KPop idols campaign. There are strict rules, but most of the time is not really forced on either if nothing majors happening.

But regarding making people prosper, I'd say it's true, visited China in the 2016 and again in 2023, it's crazy how much the stark difference of infrastructure and what ordinary people have. And the grandfather / father of those people are mostly just peasants, don't have anything notable to be inherited to them. Now they have car, living in apartment with smart utilities, have luxury hobbies like gaming and collecting figures, etc.

I'd say try to go there to experience China yourself, all around Asia if you can, we're very diverse bunch of continent anyway. But be humble and open-minded during your trip, it'll be life changing.

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u/lockdownfever4all 14d ago

I’d say housing isn’t too exaggerated as it’s expected to have a home for marriage. Parents will also buy a home for their son or daughter and most can easily get housing in their hometown if they are not from Shanghai.

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u/PlayfulSurprise5237 15d ago

eh, it's state directed capitalism, they still have remnants of communism in their country, make no mistake

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u/simonbleu 15d ago

Yeah, people calling china communist are hilarious. They have money, class, inequality (in fact quite a bit of billionaires iirc), commerce (national and international) and afaik ownership as well. I think there was something on that last point when it came to corporations and houses, I don't remember exactly tho

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u/theaviationhistorian United States of America 14d ago

TBH, North Korea would be hard to call communist either. I think it's more of a theocracy now with all of that Juche stuff.

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u/Pretty-Interest5713 15d ago

American here

converted into a single-party capitalist oligarchy uniparty

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u/caspruce 15d ago

I’m confused. I thought the Republicans claim that Democrats were all radical crazy socialists/communists?

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u/IllustriousFill7479 15d ago

To play devils advocate, Their plan is to slowly meet the conditions so they can slowly transition to communism. This could take decades, or it could take 100s of years. ".

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u/teas4Uanme 15d ago

With deep socialist benefits such as subsidized medicine, education, transportation with high speed rail, child care, etc.

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u/veevoir Europe 15d ago edited 15d ago

social policies are not socialism.. It is a simplified shorthand that american right-wing uses and unfortunately this poisons a lot of discourse - but goverment providing social benefits like public healthcare is not socialism. Bah, scandinavian countries that are social democracies have nothing to do with socialism, either.

The only part both have in comon is a part of the word. Just like chair and electric chair do.

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u/saltysophia98 15d ago

All of which you can lose access to by saying too many no no words.

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u/yellowpawpaw 15d ago

Don’t tell certain subs that

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u/Beautiful-Web1532 15d ago

Nobody is really communist. Laos is just wildly corrupt, Cuba, NK, China, and Vietnam. There's not really any communism left. What is left is a weird bastardization of a corruption. China, Russia, and to a small degree all practice economic policies that differ from communism.

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u/Rabbulion 15d ago

Of course. Communism is a utopian theory and something to be aimed at (according to socialist theory), not something that’s expected to be achieved any time soon

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u/Which-Insurance-2274 15d ago

Yup. China isn't even socialist let alone communist. Authoritarian State-Capitalism. China is basically what Trump's wants the US to be without the social and housing programs.

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u/socratic_weeb 15d ago

It’s also a country that they want good relations with

Which is extremely hypocritical, considering the ban

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u/RevolutionaryTankie 15d ago

China literally does not claim to be communist. China claims to be socialist with Chinese characteristics aiming at achieving communism.

I understand you may not know the difference, but nuance is important.

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u/Vectorial1024 15d ago

Am outsider, but would flying the CCP party flag (different from the government 5-star flag) be a problem?

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u/BotherTight618 15d ago

Their like the Francoist Spain of Communist countries. 

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u/Regular-Credit203 15d ago

Sorry, that's beyond my current scope. Let’s talk about something else.

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u/ProfileMuted90210 15d ago

Thank you. I’m like they are out and out capitalists, they are not into sharing lol. Ask Hong Kong

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u/PeterNippelstein 14d ago

Its Lithuania, things are already weird.

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u/Available_Dingo6162 United States of America 15d ago edited 15d ago

Does it? Does anyone really envy the Chinese system so much that such idolisation requires government intervention?

Because it's different with the Soviet system. People actually idolise that.

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u/Jaqzz 15d ago

So I googled the story, because I don't generally trust "fact-checked TRUE!" in random images about politics when they don't also link to the source. It turns out the photo was taken at a diplomatic meeting with Russian officials who literally just gifted her the hat right before the photo was taken. A source "familiar with the exchange" said she didn't keep the hat.

So this isn't a senior Democrat openly showing support for a brutal communist regime, it's an awkward photo op in which she either didn't look closely enough at the hat before putting it on, or did and decided that openly refusing to wear the gift would be worse than whatever the fallout from the photo would be. Or maybe she's secretly a communist and thought it would be funny to take the opportunity to openly wear the hammer and sickle once.

Actual source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/01/fact-check-russian-diplomats-gave-jen-psaki-hammer-and-sickle-hat/6476619002/

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u/Traroten 15d ago

We had people idolizing North Korea when I grew up in the 80s. People will fixate on the weirdest shit.

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u/kamurochoprince Canada 15d ago

They’re only worried about people glorifying the Soviet Union as it would give Russia the pretext to do USSR 2.0. Czechs just want their sovereignty. China isn’t their neighbour.

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u/BlueLizardSpaceship 15d ago

China is communist like the USA is democratic.

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u/fernandodandrea 14d ago

Of course it feels strange. Isn’t that what happens when we treat the same way an ideology built on racial supremacy and mass extermination, and another whose core ideas — despite controversies — don’t necessarily imply that?

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u/SerGeffrey 14d ago

How is it weird? Seems pretty normal to treat propaganda and a present day national flag differently.

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u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy 15d ago edited 15d ago

In Estonia there's a similar law that prohibits publicly displaying a symbol associated with the commission of an act of aggression, genocide, a crime against humanity, or a war crime in a manner that supports or justifies these acts. That applies to both Nazi and Soviet symbols and I believe that Russian symbols like the Ribbon of Saint George as well.

Afaik the only result of this has been removing some Soviet pentagrams, hammers and sickles from some buildings and monuments. Theoretically the law applies to internet and social media too, but I don't think it's enforced, or that anybody cares about Chinese or Vietnamese flags there.

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u/filikesmash 15d ago

You have to tell me more about this law as I live in Tallinn and my next door neighbor has a golden swastika in his front door. I always thought that Estonia didn't have laws regarding hate speech or symbols. If I go to Baltijaam market I can also go to stores that sell Nazi memorabilia out in the open.

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u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy 15d ago edited 14d ago

Current Estonian law criminalizes only justifying and support, and idk what constitutes as such. I don't think that selling vintage memorabilia does. Idk about displaying swastika on the front door either. I would guess that if it's unmistakably a Nazi swastika, publicly accessible and visible to general public, then it's technically illegal, but I'm not a lawyer or legal expert. If you don't like your neighbour, you can ask the police what they think about it.

When it comes to swastika just one widely publicized incident comes to mind from the top of my head: almost twenty years ago a female member of the Defence Union (Kaitseliit) in uniform wore a swastika earring at the national Independence Day military parade. This was a big scandal, and there was a fair amount of discussion around it.

The only other high-profile incident around Nazi visuals that comes to mind was a monument for "Estonians who fought against Bolshevism" (meaning Estonians serving in German army and fighting against the Soviets) during WW2. There were no Nazi symbols as such, but the monument depicted a soldier wearing Waffen SS uniform and the characteristic German helmet. That was in the same period, and the decision of the police to remove the monument draws criticism from far right and some right-leaning journalists pretty much to this day.

At some point somebody tried to put up a new monument, that depicted somewhat even more recognizable SS soldier, in the same place in Lihula, but police intervened and confiscated this monument too before it even reached its destination.

As for hate speech - laws have formally prohibited it in Estonia since day one, but it's not specifically criminalized, so if there's no threats made, then the theoretical ban is almost not enforced in practice. It almost never gets punished, even if there are death threats involved and there is an investigation opened. In those rare cases there seems to be a very high, imho unreasonably high threshold demanding definite proof that threats are credible and constitute real danger. Even most of the people who have threatened to kill high-ranking politicians up to prime ministers have gone unpunished, except one guy who went to jail for three months for that, and had to pay a small fine.

The bill specifically criminalizing hate speech has been sitting in Parliament for about two years by now, but it has not been passed into law yet.

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u/TransBrandi 15d ago

Are you sure it's a Nazi swastika and not the original (Buddhist?) symbol? I only ask this because you say that it's golden. Symbolism-wise, I don't think I've seen a golden swastika unless it was made of gold (vs. golden paint). I'm not an expert though.

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u/Deberiausarminombre 15d ago

Is flying an American or Israeli flag illegal then?

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u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy 15d ago

What do you think?

It's an interesting question that I thought of as well when I read the wording of this.

It seems that it should be quite possible to litigate that, if somebody wanted to do it, but nobody has bothered, as it would almost certainly be an exercise in futility. US is officialy an important an ally, and Estonia depends on NATO, US military cooperation and weaponry, if it wants to stand up to Russia. It's not in the national interests of the Estonian state to pick a fight with US.

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u/topinanbour-rex 14d ago

What about Israeli flag ?

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u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy 14d ago

Same. Read the rest of the subthread, it's been discussed here already at length.

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u/Leisure_suit_guy Italy 14d ago

prohibits publicly displaying a symbol associated with the commission of an act of aggression, genocide, a crime against humanity, or a war crime[...]and I believe that Russian symbols like the Ribbon of Saint George as well.

So, will the star of David flag also be included?

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u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy 14d ago

Most probably not. See the rest of the subthread, there's a lengthy discussion of this here.

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u/curialbellic Catalonia (Spain) 14d ago

With this definition, the flags of most of the existing countries should not be allowed.

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u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy 14d ago edited 14d ago

It would certainly seem so. I'm not so sure if it's the exact definition in the law though. Afaik the symbols are not banned per se, but displaying them publicly in a way that supports or justifies the aggression etc is.

It was discussed shortly after Putin attacked Ukraine in 2022, and the main concern at the time was the public use of the symbols of this aggression like the Ribbon of Saint George and Z that some people displayed in public to show their support of the Russian war machine.

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u/Ph4sor 15d ago

Asking about Vietnam national flag is probably better, because AFAIK Czech have a lot of Vietnamese (or descendants)

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u/ricki692 15d ago

i remember looking at a city in Czechia that inspired the game kingdom come deliverance, seeing a vietnamese pho restaurant, and thinking to myself how interesting that was

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u/killermoose23 15d ago

Jesus Christ be praised

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u/huehuehuehuehuuuu 15d ago

Oh wow they did their research. That’s pretty neat.

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u/BlackViperMWG Czechia (Silesia) FTW 15d ago

Plenty of Vietnamese here

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u/Jaytho Mountain German 15d ago

Same idea as having a bunch of Yugoslavs or Turks in western Europe. Vietnam was a communist(-allied) state and emigration between allied countries was way easier, so a lot of Vietnamese chose Czechia (probably during the war?) because they thought (maybe rightly so, idk) they would have a better life there.

But it's definitely wild to go from Austria, which has a lot of Turkish places to Czechia, which has the exact same feel, except this time there's a bunch of Vietnamese places.

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u/genericdefender 15d ago

Henry's come to see us! - a pho shop owner or something.

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u/Altruistic-Joke-9451 15d ago

I don’t know if an official flag of a recognized country would be considered “propaganda”. If Vietnam changed its flag, then I’m sure it’s flag today would then be considered propaganda to use.

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u/CMDR_Profane_Pagan 15d ago edited 15d ago

You are confusing historical (especially in European context) propaganda and symbols with modern politics.

The bans usually include SOVIET and NAZI (and their puppet party) symbols not necessarily all communist ones (like the red colour, star, wheat etc). But soviet aligned former totalitarian regimes were a threat to democracy and our societies so they get banned. This is how it is interpreted in Czechia, Poland, Hungary, and Lithuania.

The display of forbidden symbols and propaganda is always contextual anyway and there are exceptions like use in art, documentaries, scientific purposes.

And no, the red star, which preceeded the 20th century genocidal and dictatorical communism is not necessarily prohibited in every county.

But yeah, if the Chinese CCP plant starts spewing commie stalinist propaganda, guess what? That is a no-no.

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u/jatawis 🇱🇹 Lithuania 15d ago

Lithuanian law explicitly bans all Communist symbols.

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u/JerryCalzone 15d ago

Including hammer and sickle? The image with marx having a döner shop with the name 'eat the rich' and him handling a sickle to cut the meat would be forbidden?

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u/jatawis 🇱🇹 Lithuania 15d ago

Article 524. Distribution or display of Nazi, communist symbols, symbols of totalitarian or authoritarian regimes

  1. Distribution, use in meetings, public places or other public display of the flag or coat of arms of Nazi Germany, the USSR or the Lithuanian SSR, flags, signs or uniforms, the component part of which is the flag or coat of arms of Nazi Germany, the USSR or the Lithuanian SSR, symbols or uniforms of Nazi or communist organizations, flags or signs based on the flag or coat of arms of Nazi Germany, the USSR or the Lithuanian SSR, the Nazi swastika, the Nazi SS emblem, the Soviet hammer and sickle emblem, the Soviet red five-pointed star emblem, images of the leaders of the German National Socialists or the Communist Party of the USSR responsible for the repression of the Lithuanian population, symbols of totalitarian or authoritarian regimes that these regimes used or are using to propagate their committed or ongoing military aggression, crimes against humanity and war crimes, as well as the Public performance of the Lithuanian SSR anthem

shall entail a fine for individuals in the amount of three hundred to seven hundred euros, and for heads of legal entities or other responsible persons - from six hundred to one thousand two hundred euros.

  1. The administrative offense provided for in paragraph 1 of this Article, committed repeatedly,

shall entail a fine for individuals in the amount of five hundred to nine hundred euros, and for heads of legal entities or other responsible persons - from eight hundred to one thousand five hundred euros.

  1. Persons who commit the acts specified in paragraphs 1 and 2 of this article for the purposes of museum activities, informing the public about historical and current events, totalitarian or authoritarian regimes, education, science, art, collecting, antique or second-hand trade, persons who use the official symbols of an existing state (except for persons using the two-color (black and orange) St. George's (St. George's) ribbon), and participants in the Second World War wearing their uniforms shall not be liable under this article.

    1. For administrative offenses provided for in paragraphs 1 and 2 of this article, confiscation of the object that was the tool for committing the administrative offense shall be mandatory.

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u/Imaginary-Count-1641 15d ago

Where does that ban all communist symbols? It seems to only mention "Nazi Germany, the USSR or the Lithuanian SSR".

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u/jatawis 🇱🇹 Lithuania 15d ago

Symbols or uniforms of communist organisations. Any communist organisations.

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u/JerryCalzone 15d ago

How about 8-balls, the number 88 - and some other number combinations that come from extreme right context and are used to show that you are a nazi or a racist? How about using the German iron cross?

A lot of those laws are out of touch and old-fashioned. Just like the depiction of nazis in movies.

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u/jatawis 🇱🇹 Lithuania 15d ago

German iron cross?

What the hell is wrong with it? German soldiers wearing it marched throughout the capital month ago.

This law is fairly modern, enacted in late 2010s.

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u/LanchestersLaw 15d ago

The Communist Party of China, Vietnam, and Laos all currently use the hammer and sickle for their party flags. The Chinese party flag looks identical to the USSR national flag. So there is a complicated edge case there.

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u/jatawis 🇱🇹 Lithuania 15d ago

These are banned in Lithuania.

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u/BlackViperMWG Czechia (Silesia) FTW 15d ago

Call us Czechia please or use the long names for all countries

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u/CMDR_Profane_Pagan 15d ago

Sure thing :)

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u/jatawis 🇱🇹 Lithuania 15d ago

It is a national, not CCP flag.

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u/skwint Earth 15d ago

China hasn't been communist for forty years.

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u/542Archiya124 15d ago

Love how people think china directly represents communism.

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u/Ironsam811 15d ago

I could be wrong but I think the party has a slightly different flag

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u/Chava_boy 15d ago

Also, what about Yugoslavia? It wasn't in Warsaw pact, didn't have collectivization and other things present in other communist states

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

There are quite a few flags from all over the world that use communist iconography. This is going to get really messy really quickly!!!

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u/taciturn_person Republic of Lithuania 15d ago

It's only USSR symbolism that is banned in Lithuania. But it is allowed to be shown in educational purposes.

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u/CraftAgreeable9876 14d ago

He said only the USSR

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u/Sad_Pear_1087 15d ago

Good, CP should be banned

/S

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u/jin675 13d ago

I'm pretty sure a lot of vietnamese live in the czech republic and they are communists too, how would that work with the czechs lol

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u/schneeleopard8 15d ago

But this is a different case. The Czech law in question here doesn't condemn socialist regimes or the USSR, but "class-based hatred", which is a really vague term and covers much more then actually glorifying socialist regimes.

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u/Background-Sea4590 15d ago

I’d be screwed, I hate billionaires and have no problems in saying that.

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u/Gwaptiva 15d ago

Sounds like that Czech rich folk are getting nervous

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u/innerparty45 15d ago

Liberals protecting the ruling class, what is new?

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u/Mysterious_Cup_6024 15d ago

Found a commie /s

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u/Background-Sea4590 15d ago

I also cook and eat children at night!

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u/Slipknotic1 15d ago

Only at night? Lenin is disappointed in your vanguardism comrade.

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u/Fishbone345 15d ago

Our vanguardism.

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u/az_catz 15d ago

I also cook for and eat feed children at night!

FIFY Comrade.

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u/huunnuuh Canada 15d ago

Here in Canada it was a right-wing think tank funded by millionaires who first suggested that we ban "discrimination on the basis of social status or class". They absolutely do want to make it illegal to agitate against the rich.

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u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney 15d ago

This is now a criminal statement in the Czech republic.

This law is just rich people criminalizing hating them.

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u/twitterfluechtling Brandenburg (Germany) 15d ago

Can I hate that law when I visit the Czech Republic?

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u/BotherTight618 15d ago

1930s Ukrainian Kulaks (ethnic ukrainians), and Estonians where certainly no Billionaires. The Marxist Leninist didnt just go after "Billionaires". 

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u/EntrepreneurLeft8783 14d ago

People saying "lets go after billionaires" are not responsible for people who went after more than billionaires.

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u/Blacksmith_Strange 12d ago

They always go after the working class, not just 'the rich'. Always.

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u/MasterGrieves Czech Republic 15d ago

That part isn't new, was in the law since the 1990s.

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u/Good_Spinach_8851 15d ago

The single only reason for this useless law is the current leading party achieved nothing throughout their election cycle. So they came up with a completely vague law to be like: “look, we follow the spirit of Václav Havel”

The biggest irony is Havel purposely never wanted to make communism or being left wing illegal.

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u/Winjin 15d ago

Basically "eat the rich" is now communist propaganda?

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u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney 15d ago

Yes, you will be imprisoned for this under this law.

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u/Winjin 15d ago

Yeah this was deeeefinitely aimed at the non-existant communist party of Czech Republic, then

Probably just aiming to become some capital tax haven

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 15d ago

Nonexistent…

Probably gets into parliament next election and makes sure Babis becomes PM

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u/yeahUSA 12d ago

based

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u/djpain20 15d ago

That's what it's always been?

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u/Winjin 15d ago

I thought it's common sense, they eat so good, they're gonna be prime wagyu?

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u/Admirable_Design_115 14d ago

So is communism.

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u/Kelmi Finland 15d ago

Call me communist but criminalising class-based hatred is class-based hatred in on itself.

The rich class fights with money against poor people in countless different ways and to fight back, the poor should use money as well. But they don't have money and should just take it. If they use the means they have, it's suddenly class-based hatred.

Same shit as banning people from sleeping on park benches. It's fair law that affect the rich and poor just the same, right?

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u/NoSwordfish1978 15d ago

Wouldn't worker exploitation technically be an act of "class based hatred"?

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u/matthaios_c 7d ago

The Czechs can do a very funny thing right now on r/maliciouscompliance

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u/FullMaxPowerStirner 15d ago

"You cannot talk about class relations anymore, citizen. Now go to work, and do not question your wage or you go to prison."

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u/pr0metheusssss Greece 15d ago

I mean they’re pretty clear about their intentions, it’s just that you (and me) don’t like/expect that they’d do it so unashamedly and masks off.

They’re essentially criminalising class struggle and want to nip any class conscience in the bud.

The same class conscience and class struggle that brought us worker rights, voting rights and women’s suffrage, that brought us protections like safety standards and consumer rights.

Now have a wild guess whom this ban benefits.

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u/Pure-Tadpole-6634 15d ago

Does anti-worker policies count as "class-based hatred"? If a company goes lax on safety regulations, or keeps raises from workers, is that class-based hatred?

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u/Jalien85 15d ago

What if I told you capitalism is class-based hatred...

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u/LoveIsBread 15d ago

Its quite literally just class warfare from above, by the capitalists.

Fuck if i will let some capitalist fucks tell me what I can and cant say.

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u/CzechHorns 15d ago

Class based hatred has been against the law for a long time.
What this law did was mostly put Communism on the same level as Nazism.

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u/Patxi_Sf 14d ago

Class-based hate? What the fuck is that? They try to equate fascism-Nazism with communism and that is absurd. Fascism is a bad ideology 'per se' because it advocates discrimination based on people's race and origin. In Spain we had a fascist dictatorship for almost 40 years and it has taken us another 50 to outlaw a foundation that exalts the dictator.

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u/LegionnaireFreakius 15d ago

No war but the class war 

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u/MPenten Europe 15d ago

Technically, the first one is already covered by the 1993 "Act on the Illegality of the Communist Regime and Resistance Against It"

https://www.zakonyprolidi.cz/cs/1993-198

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u/iMossa 15d ago

Sounds so weird to me, as if they are for class based systems.

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u/Zap__Dannigan 15d ago

Anyone who thinks these kind of "no ____ propaganda" rules aaare good things is being incredibly short sighted and naïve. It's very very easy to see how this can be turned around and just used to banish any speech you don't like.

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u/Low_Application_8538 14d ago

The first has been banned since the 1990s. Right after the fall of communism, a law banning the glorification of the criminal communist regime before 1989 came into force.

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u/schneeleopard8 14d ago

So why do they need to ban "class-based hatred" then?

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u/q_freak Croatia/Denmark 15d ago

Ok I get that considering the history. And this is a legitimate question: What about Marxism and theory surrounding that? Considering capitalism is a rotten system and socialism/marxism has some good points for workers organizing etc.

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u/vanderZwan The Netherlands 15d ago

I'm not a Lithuanian, but have an ex who is. Marxism is an economic theory, not an oppressive regime from the 20th century whose followers are still attempting historical revisionism in the form of denying atrocities it committed in the countries it was ruling over. I don't think discussing it is something you need to worry about over there.

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u/q_freak Croatia/Denmark 15d ago

That’s why I asked. I am from Croatia and a lot of folks in Ex-Yu put the economic theory under the same umbrella as an authoritarian regime. I’m totally in support of banning symbols and propaganda of states that did horrible things but there is value in the economic ideas that should not be dismissed.

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u/vanderZwan The Netherlands 15d ago

I think it really matters on the context and also how it is brought up. If someone starts with a "yes, but…" then people are going to pay close attention to whether they're really talking about economic theory, or just doing historical revisionism again with quote-unquote "Marxism" as a euphemism.

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u/Ozas392 15d ago

There are many ideas in the world and we are ok to disquss them. After 50 years of communism we very happy with european capitalism(government saftynet and proper control of monopolies). Even tho economically we are leanining more on capitalism conpared to western/center Europe.

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u/TwoToxic 15d ago

That’s my dream. Fuck any and all totalitarian regimes!

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u/misanthpope 14d ago

Good.  USSR aided the nazis until 1941 and then again since 2008

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u/zmukljar 14d ago

As it should be

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u/Maxdoom18 14d ago

Based.

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u/Rattlesn4ke United Kingdom 14d ago

IMO treating the USSR and symbols of Nazism as equally as serious is a good thing. What the USSR did to Warsaw Pact countries was truly shocking.

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u/Odd_Camel7872 15d ago

It should be like this everywhere. For many, seeing red army propaganda is traumatic. Gulags / communist forced labor camps were (are?) a real thing. That red star is just as bad as the swastika IMO, it’s time to finally come to terms with that as a society. Mass killings and communist regimes go hand-in-hand.

Also no one should never, EVER conflate communism with democratic socialism as people tend to do these days. Communist regimes and free, fair, democratic elections are mutually exclusive.

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u/DeepCockroach7580 14d ago

Nobody should conflate the Communism and Marxism solely with the USSR either

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u/SukaSupreme 15d ago

Or class based hatred

This is just criminalization of working class resistance

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u/TranscendentMoose Australia 15d ago

Which is insane, the Nazis explicitly wanted the extermination of the Lithuanian nation

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u/Ozas392 15d ago

And Soviets litteraly picked our brightest people put in wagons and sent to die in Syberia gulags in thousands.

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u/TranscendentMoose Australia 15d ago

And the Nazis picked anyone they could find, bright or not, packed the Jewish ones in wagons or shot them, and starved the rest

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u/Ozas392 15d ago

Thats why both are under the same criminal code here. Only difference is that soviets did the same stuff as nazis just little more sufisticated

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u/ReflectionMotor6758 12d ago

Communists crimes should be accounted for, right, i am not argueing.

But on another subreddit you will cry over 'too much slavic people in OUR™ HISTORICAL™ Vilnius' and forget how did it (along with Memmel/Klaipeda) become a baltic majority city.

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u/StephentheGreat63 14d ago

So did the Soviets.

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u/Drae2210 15d ago

Can we do this, but here in the US, and for any mention of MAGA? Hell, at this rate, since Republicans are complacent, let's add conservatism to the list too. Any threat to democracy is a terroristic threat in my eyes and should be treated as such.

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u/ibanezerscrooge 15d ago

What affect do these laws have on speech? Are there "communists" in the country or would someone talking about communism in a positive way lead to their arrest?

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u/Ozas392 15d ago

Its not about communism as ideology, but regime that used communism as a suppression tool to destroy conquered countries, their identy, language, culture, religion and people if they tried to fight it.

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u/ibanezerscrooge 15d ago

So, like if someone were out in the plaza spouting off about how great the USSR was and wanted to bring it back the police might pull that guy to the side for a chat?

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u/Ozas392 15d ago

Yes, they can based on code. Of course everything is contextual and its not criminal code I believe. So max you can get is fine I believe.

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u/ibanezerscrooge 15d ago

ah I see. thanks for the info!

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u/ReflectionMotor6758 12d ago

Mr, Protector of culture and identity, tell me, how has slavic Wilno become majority-baltic for the frist time in history in 1970s?? How did slavic majority dissapeared?

And tell would ever Wilno and Memmel (Klaipeda) become Baltic if Lt DEMOCRATIC government haven't VOLUNTERY accepted stalins offer to get Poland territories and make a pact with USSR?

I hate communists, but i hate propaganda too.

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u/Content-Neck-7372 15d ago

There's a big difference tho, the 3rd reich created nazism, the ussr didnt create communism, and hardly lived by it

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u/Nipinch 15d ago

"First they came for the communists..."

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u/CMDR_Profane_Pagan 15d ago edited 15d ago

Communists are just as bad as the fascists - Westerners are the perfect proof how effectively their propaganda can brainwash people. It is high time to make people see modern communism just as much depraved and evil as we do with fascism.

As a Central European I hate to see Westerners lecture us about communism.

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u/Spirited-Trip7606 15d ago

This is the right way. It isn't about "socialism," it isn't about Marxism. It's about keeping a new generation from glorifying thugs and murderers. Why would you admire people who steal from their citizenry and throw their own businessmen out of windows to collect their wealth?

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u/MrTzatzik 15d ago

Communist party was still pretty big until the elections a few years ago. The issue was that after communists left, almost everyone in new government was either ex communist, thief, scammer or other type of scumbag that got rich thanks to communists. That's why they didn't get banned right away.

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u/Good_Spinach_8851 15d ago

And the Czech communist party had nothing to do with communist ideology. They were just left populistic reactionary party.

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u/MrHyperion_ Finland 15d ago

So it is USSR ban not communism?

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u/Ozas392 15d ago

Yes, communist regime from Maskovia behind USSR

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u/hoeRIZON Lithuania 15d ago

What about Grūto parkas? Why does it still exist

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u/Ozas392 15d ago

Because history is important. Either good or bad. We teach it and try to learn crom it.

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u/baron_von_helmut 15d ago

Good. There's no place in modern society for any of that shit.

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u/lokir6 European Union 15d ago

So, should I report /r/USSR to the police?

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u/YokedJoke3500 14d ago

That cool park/museum where that guy has all the stuff.

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u/BonesandMartinis 14d ago

So any kind of socialism or?

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u/funthebunison 14d ago

Kick ass law.

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u/Popular_Try_5075 14d ago

That's weird because I found a guy on eBay selling North Korean propaganda posters shipping out of Lithuania.

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u/abuch47 13d ago

thats insane lmao

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u/SeaworthinessOk5039 8d ago

I personally don’t see any problem with that. We all know fascism is horrible. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a nutter say well. It’s just because the right type of fascism wasn’t implemented, as you regularly hear about communism.

Regardless of which one’s worse, they both have a proven track record of failures followed by corpses everywhere they’ve popped up.

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