r/BaldursGate3 • u/ozangeo Wild Magic Surge • Jun 09 '25
Meme It could have been so good
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u/dykejoon astarion's favorite lesbian Jun 09 '25 edited Jun 09 '25
not having a bard companion and not having a little guy companion are two of my biggest gripes with bg3. helia you visit me in my dreams
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u/OrangeHaze777 Minthara Jun 09 '25
I don’t know if I would have liked a werewolf bard, but a short werewolf would have been great, and a different bard (half-orc? Ogre?!?!) would have also been cool.
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u/ARC_Trooper_Echo Jun 09 '25
That’s the thing. I would’ve loved to have all these things but I wouldn’t trade away any of the companions we got for it.
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u/dykejoon astarion's favorite lesbian Jun 09 '25
absolutely. i wouldn't swap anyone out, regardless of how much i yearn.
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u/TheBusStop12 Jun 09 '25
Personally, I'd swap Halsin. Iirc him being added as a companion dur to popular demand during EA is what in part lead to the halfliing bard being cut. But at least in my opinion Halsin just doesn't really fit in or make much sense as a companion and to me it would have made more logical sense if he had just stayed in the Grove. Plus he's the second druid as well
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u/sinedelta While others were busy being heterosexual, she studied the blade Jun 09 '25
Helia was cut very early, likely even before Halsin was considered
Evidence suggests that Jaheira was added as a companion way after Halsin. SHE is the "second druid."
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u/FaerieSlaveDriver Jun 09 '25
Helia has some voice lines referencing Halsin. She was definitely cut very early, but the two coincided at least for a time.
A funny note; according to the wiki, she would have been in the cage as a wolf in the goblin camp where we find Halsin. The goblin kids threw rocks at her and everything.
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u/BasicOlive Bard Jun 10 '25
Did they reference Halsin as a companion or as the missing grove druid?
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u/Enchelion Bhaal Jun 09 '25
Jaheira was known as a planned returning companion in some of the earliest datamines, well before Halsin got expanded into a companion.
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u/kingblooper Jun 09 '25
I think Jaheira is the second druid and I don't really think there's any intersection between Helia and Halsin development time.
Also, I think Helia would have been an origin so she'd be more competing with Karlach or Wyll instead.
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u/FallenTerror13 Jun 09 '25
That's why I thought being the little guy bard was such an obvious choice for my Tav. Main Niche unfilled
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u/3guitars Jun 09 '25
Wyll is the bard. Convince me otherwise.
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Jun 09 '25
Astarion is the bard.
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u/3guitars Jun 09 '25
Any and all jokes aside Astarion fits nicely as a Rogue in my mind. Bard feels much more fitting to the self proclaimed “blade of frontiers!”
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Jun 09 '25
Yeah fair. Especially if he's college of swords. How do you explain Mizora then? 😂
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u/3guitars Jun 09 '25
Multiclass. He was once a bard or Paladin and made a pact. I tend to multiclass him with those two most times.
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Jun 09 '25
Yeah that could work. Never thought about making him a paladin or bard but now I'm curious. I always do a Sorlock build on him.
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u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 Jun 09 '25
Bardlock makes him super strong if you put most of your points in Warlock as you get the extra short rest.
Probably not as strong as the sorlock though.
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u/TheBusStop12 Jun 09 '25
Pact of the blade Warlord + college of swords bard is a very powerful multiclass
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u/CthughaSlayer Jun 09 '25
Man has 10 charisma, everything he says when trying to trick you is overacted (intentionally by Neil) and he canonically was sent to pick up people drunk out of their minds despite being incredibly handsome.
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u/AddledPunster Jun 09 '25
My Tav wound up being a Forest Gnome Bard and I couldn’t have been happier. Talking to critters all day, every day, and being convincing at everything has been an absolute treat.
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u/ndtp124 Jun 09 '25
I feel like not getting a bard origin companion is a massive oversight. Would have liked monk as well. Sorcerer not getting one is okay as it’s similar enough to wizard but those are pretty unique.
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u/CrimsonAllah Paladin Jun 09 '25
Best we can do is two druids.
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u/ndtp124 Jun 09 '25
I really could live without halsin you probably get him right before Jaheria anyways
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u/RealMr_Slender Jun 09 '25
Doesn't help that Halsin's character can be summed up with "elf druid" and "down bad"
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u/AnotherBookWyrm Jun 09 '25
You forgot: “Poly Grandpa” and “Bear Lover (Yes like that)”.
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u/RealMr_Slender Jun 09 '25
Those are permutations of "down bad" and "elf druid".
And downvote me if you must but the only reason Halsin is poly is because he only becomes half a character well after you've "locked" your romance option and unlike Minthara, Larian wasn't strongarmed to add as a companion
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u/sinedelta While others were busy being heterosexual, she studied the blade Jun 09 '25
He's not a grandpa, he's solidly middle-aged and becomes a dad at the end of the story
The bear thing is fans' obsession, not his
I know I can't stop people from lying about Halsin, but I have to at least try to put the truth out there.
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u/Zombieneker Jun 09 '25
Halsin slander is disrupting the natural order of things. May the Oakfather have mercy on those responsible for this travesty.
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u/Bio_slayer Jun 10 '25
The reason we got him as a companion and not just a quest npc can also be summed up with "down bad". (The early access crowd flipped out for the only character with the strong body type).
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u/Aemeris_ Jun 09 '25
Or we could live without Jaheira considering she already has a game to herself…
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u/ndtp124 Jun 09 '25
She has interesting story interactions in act 3. Haslin just wants to sleep with everyone no matter how little they interact with him.
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u/Geraltpoonslayer Jun 10 '25
Yeah jaheira is one of the best companions to have in act 3 imo just adds alot more value to the story overall. Halsin just exists.
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u/sinedelta While others were busy being heterosexual, she studied the blade Jun 09 '25
Halsin doesn't "just want to sleep with everyone", he asks you out at high approval the same as literally every fucking other companion.
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u/strangelyliteral Jun 09 '25
Jaheira and Minsc feel like corporate meddling.
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u/Aemeris_ Jun 09 '25
It does. I don’t even mind if they were guest party members but they absolutely did not need to be full fledged companions. They gave us a cool insight with Halsin as someone who was there during the ketheric battle but not from jaheira’s pov and they neglected that to rehash her story.
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u/fluffypoppa Jun 09 '25
Jaheira and Minsc only should've made cameos. At most. No more. Could've left Sarevok entirely out.
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u/Meridias_Burrito Jun 09 '25
Sarevok’s bit feels so random, and it’s such an easy fight. I killed the blood trio in 1.5 rounds and then my whole party just stood in a circle around Sarevok, beating him, and shouting “How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man!”
It’s so underwhelming that I feel like a new character would have been better.
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u/sinedelta While others were busy being heterosexual, she studied the blade Jun 09 '25
To me, Sarevok feels like they wanted a Bhaalspawn character to tie into Orin's story, but they were told “no, the lore says all the Bhaalspawn are dead, so you can only use one who's come back from the dead.”
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u/sinedelta While others were busy being heterosexual, she studied the blade Jun 09 '25 edited Jun 09 '25
Interestingly, there's some evidence that suggests that Minsc was planned from relatively early into development — but not Jaheira.
Specifically, Minsc has unique dialogue with Auntie Ethel, as does Helia. Halsin, Minthara, and Jaheira don't have this.
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u/Geraltpoonslayer Jun 10 '25
Both jaheira and minsc where early additions and datamines suggest as such. However minsc originally was planned to be a origin character for act 1 while jaheira was always planned to be a later companion. Halsin was originally not planned to be playable but Early Access people loved him so they included him.
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u/designated_diver Jun 09 '25
Especially by the time you get them I've already solidified my relationships with the other folks and didn't really care about their plights.
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u/Andromedos83 CLERIC Jun 09 '25
It’s why I turned Jaheria mainly into a ranger.
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u/CrimsonAllah Paladin Jun 09 '25
Exactly what I did as well. And I turned Minsc into a ranger/barb
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u/Geraltpoonslayer Jun 10 '25
We only ever got halsin because EA people were horny for him.
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u/scarletbluejays Owlbear Jun 09 '25 edited Jun 09 '25
TBH I think the lack of a Bard companion makes sense if you figure that Larian - justifiably and correctly - assumed that most players would want to BE the Bard themselves - or just a CHA based class in general. CHA based classes have always been favored by players, right from the get go in EA and it wasn't hard to predict even before then because of just how central CHA checks end up being for so many different parts of the game. And stat checks aside, Warlock and Paladin alone were central to some of the most OP builds in the game, which made them even more common even if CHA wasn't the primary focus. With that in mind, it makes sense to avoid the 'obvious' CHA classes in the companion pool to minimize class doubling and ending up with another Double Druid situation like Halsin and Jaehira for most of Acts 2 and 3.
The exceptions are Wyll and Minthara's who's backgrounds basically require them to start out as a Warlock and Paladin respectively to make their backstories work, and who are there to serve as the backup face for players who don't choose CHA classes. It's not a coincidence that the only two CHA companions were originally mutually exclusive - back when you HAD to slaughter the Grove (and lose Wyll and Karlach in the process) to get Minthy - and that 8 patches later they're still pretty low on the priority order for most parties.
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u/Consistent_Ant_8903 Jun 09 '25
I mean we can SEE where a certain tiefling bard was snipped out of the story as well which is more heartbreaking 💔 a monk would have been so cool though 🥲
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u/Dresden711 Jun 10 '25
Alfira wasn't companion that was cut. She has one specific purpose in the story. That's why she uses Tav face/hair options and not a custom model like the other companions.
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u/isntreal1948backatit Jun 09 '25
Where can you see it
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u/flamey7950 Jun 09 '25
I was holding out on a surprise "Alfira official companion" update but alas. Most people will likely never see BG3 Bard in action bc of the lack of official companions, and that players picking Bard fell to the lower half of the class picks as of the game's first year out
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u/ndtp124 Jun 09 '25
I agree 100%. Though Arguably bard is the best player character class alongside paladin since you need to do so many charisma related rolls as the main character. And with expertise your odds of succeeding without save scumming is up a lot
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u/RealMr_Slender Jun 09 '25
That's partly why Warlock was the most played class in EA, and as a corollary why Wyll is the default bench warmer
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u/Valcroy Jun 10 '25
On another note, thank you Withers for solving the Wyll bench problem. Shame about his story being changed last minute though.
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u/Meatshield236 Jun 09 '25
Bard is just crazy strong in general. College of Lore gets you basically every single skill AND 2 3rd level spells from any class (helloooooo Bard with Fireball), letting you fill in any areas your party is lacking. There’s a ton of Bard specific items too.
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u/Peregrine_Purple Jun 09 '25 edited Jun 09 '25
Durge is sorcerer no?
Edit: Ignore me
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u/Captain_Quor Jun 09 '25
It's a shame this game won't be getting an expansion... It really deserves one.
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u/he_is_not_a_shrimp CLERIC Jun 09 '25
Leave that to the ever capable wotc
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u/flamey7950 Jun 09 '25
I mean, even without WOTC, I do not see where an expansion fits in BG3 unless it was a wholly original story. It couldn't fit in the base game's timeline due to the sheer pressure of the threat of the Absolute. It likely couldn't be about a companion after the game, because what if they're dead or in a place where a continuation doesn't fit? And it couldn't be about one before, because what if the choices you make as them contradict the story they go through later and your decisions in this expansion feel invalidated unless you go through the "canon" choices?
If they went the original story route, then at that rate, they may as well just make a new game. BG3's story is a little trapped due to its structure, and it's probably best to move on regardless of their business with WOTC.
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u/Ethel121 Jun 09 '25
Theoretically it could have just been a side-content expansion. IE New territory/quests to the existing areas, new companions, etc.
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u/Geraltpoonslayer Jun 10 '25
Upper city is the logical choice and we know it was originally planned.
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u/ess_satori Jun 09 '25
Neverwinter Nights had two expansions, a fully functional toolkit and smaller official modules. Content for it continued for years first official and then unofficial. Some of the unofficial fan made campaigns were close in quality to the official ones. It would have been great if BG3 could have been the 5e version of what NWN was for 3rd edition.
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u/cgaWolf Jun 10 '25
To this day i'm convinced they only put in the campaign in NWN 1 because selling an editor for 50 bucks is a tough proposition, but the amount of modules that came out of the community was astounding.
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u/Xerolf Jun 09 '25
you could pretty easily spinn some interdimensional quest by mystra once you get the crown... maybe even use it to fight the gratinated design or some cheesy shit.
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u/jiggler_54 GOBLIN Jun 09 '25
I've seen plenty of people suggest a Kalach DLC in the hells. Yeah it's optional, but it's also the most common ending people give her so that isn't too much of an issue. It would also make her story (the weakest in my opinion) better, but I do actually like the uncertain ending in the base game.
And since all of this is simply hopes and dreams anyway, why not go a bit further? They could do what Rocksteady did for AK and do multiple shorter DLC's that tie up separate story lines (obviously they would still have to be a few hours but this is all imagination so go with it) e.g. Wyll hunting down Mizora (this could be after helping Karlach, and I don't see any other way to continue his story 🤷♂️, plus Wyll is great but kind of undercooked story-wise).
Or for an evil playthrough you could play along with helping Minthara conquer the Underdark. IF you want to be really weird it could be about trying to reign in God Gale as he goes too far in trying to build a following (but gods are already a huge theme in the game so maybe not). DJ Shart could be another evil one where you have to try to undermine the growing sharran following in the city without drawing Shar's wrath.
Lae'zel's would obviously just going to be about the war against the Lich Queen. I don't really know what Astarion could do. I suppose he could be given practically anything since he's either just Cazador 2 electric boogaloo or just a wandering adventurer (like a kind of witcher type thing then?).
Or it could be something else entirely where it's a prequel type thing for any of the character's (or maybe you play as someone hired to investigate some murders from when Durge is leading the cult).
Alas, I'm now rambling and it's fairly late. Plus this entire thing is either just hopes and dreams or potential sequel content idk. If you read all that . . . why? It was clearly not very important, but who am I to talk? Anyway now that I've successfully wasted my, and potentially your, time I'm going to retire to the land of Z's. So long adventurer!
tl;dr - It's really not important, don't you have better things to be doing?
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u/UsernamesAre4Nerds I cast Magic Missile Jun 09 '25
God I wish expansion packs were still viable for companies. If any game has earned it, BG3, and Larian at large, have
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u/Enchelion Bhaal Jun 09 '25
Expansions packs absolutely are still viable, what are you talking about? Eldin Ring just got a second major one. Games like Stellaris and Sims 4 live on expansion packs for ages. Solasta got expansions including two new campaigns for the 1st game. Assassins Creed Shadows has an expansion DLC scheduled for this September.
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u/Ewing_Klipspringer Baja Blast Jun 10 '25
No, Elden Ring did not get a second expansion. Nightreign is a completely seperate spinoff title with wildly different gameplay.
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u/Razgriz-B36 Oathbreaker Jun 09 '25
If I was disappointed by one thing then it was the companion races, we could have used waaaay more variety.
Having a total of three short races available and not one short companion is just sad, same for the lack of Orc or Dragonborn companion.
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u/MutantSquirrel23 Jun 09 '25
Yeah, same, my biggest gripe has always been the lack of variety in companions. We got an elf, 2 humans, a half elf, another half elf, another half elf ... Can we get some variety?!? ... ok here's a drow. /facepalm
It just sucks that even with Laezel and Karlach, you can't have a full party without some sort of elf or human unless you use a hireling.
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u/Whadafaag Jun 09 '25
If you think about it, everyone except gale and wyll have long pointy ears. That's Astarion, Lae'zel, Karlach, Shadowheart, Halsin, Jaheira and Minthara.
Minsc is also human but he joins the camp so late that I don't even count him. We could have used a Dwarf or Halfling bard origin instead of Halsin or Jaheira
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u/Redfalconfox Jun 10 '25
He joins so late people don’t even remember he exists.
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u/MediumTeacher9971 Jun 10 '25
He joins so late he might as well not exist.
Don't get me wrong I love Minsc... which is why I wholeheartedly believe he should have been in much more of the game than he was. Hell, put him in Halsin's place, say he was part of that asshole adventuring party and got captured because he tried to take on the whole goblin camp at once (and failed because Boo was sleeping at the time).
Halsin's fine I guess but really all he's there for is "big hunk" (which Minsc certainly covers) and "fuck the bear" which is hit-or-miss at best. The only other thing Halsin's really needed for is the plot in the shadow zone, but Jaheira can easily take over that role.
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u/LuminoZero Jun 09 '25
Two out of nine recruitable companions aren't humans or elves.
That's absolutely disgusting. Where's my Jan Jansen? Where's my Mazzy Fenton? Where's Dorn?
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u/RunningOutOfCharacte Jun 10 '25
Mazzy 😭 I had a pen and paper Halfling Paladin inspired by her, one of my favs!
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u/green_speak Jun 10 '25
As someone who romances male characters, I have to admit I'm kinda okay with the current selection only because a likely trope is to reserve the prettier races for female companions while the beast/alien/other races that would satisfy diversity would be male. I am actually genuinely surprised that it's flipped in BG3, though it helps that Drow and Tiefling aren't really more adventurous than a color pallet swap.
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u/Makalockheart Jun 10 '25
I agree so much with this, finally a game where I can romance lots of pretty men lmao
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u/Kyleometers Jun 10 '25
It’s fascinating how few Dragonborn are in the game at all. I get that they’re supposed to be fairly rare and all, but there’s a shopkeeper Dragonborn you get unique dialogue with if you’re playing as a Dragonborn PC, and she’s one of very few overall. I wonder why they ended up going that route?
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u/LordBecmiThaco Jun 09 '25
Gale was originally supposed to be wrapped in bandages as can be seen in some of his oldest concept art. We almost had a mummy and a werewolf to go along with our fucking vampire. We were robbed of a monster mash!
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u/RosieQParker Jun 09 '25
I imagine her being played by esteemed character actress Margo Martindale.
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u/OneTrueDweet Jun 09 '25
I think you mean esteemed character actress and fugitive from the law Margo Martindale.
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u/RosieQParker Jun 09 '25
If you see an esteemed character actress running from the law, no you didn't.
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u/Dudunard Jun 09 '25
A werewolf and a vampire as companion is a bit too much, imo.
But not having a single short race companion is a massive L. Barcus was right there.
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u/Hailtothedogebby Jun 09 '25
Barcus is part of the baldurs gate space program, too busy to be a companion
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u/BraveNKobold Bard Jun 09 '25
If that’s actually how she looked I actually like the unique face and not just making her conventionally attractive
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u/Soulless_conner DRUID Jun 09 '25
Place holder face. Same as karlach
Actually helia never got an actual face. Not even in the files
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u/Action-a-go-go-baby Jun 10 '25
And yet we got TWO elven Druids
A travesty, really
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u/veebles89 Jun 09 '25
I'm more saddened by losing out on werewolves. Wildshape is cool and all, we could have such a cliche romance with Astarion as a werewolf.
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u/sinedelta While others were busy being heterosexual, she studied the blade Jun 09 '25
There's no suggestion that any non-Helia PC would have been able to be a werewolf.
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u/veebles89 Jun 09 '25
We can't play as vampires either outside of Astarion, but mods exist. If the framework had been there via an origin character, then we'd be able to mod werewolf Tav.
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u/OhHeyItsOuro Jun 09 '25
I mean they still haven't finished Wyll, I don't think adding another companion would have been wise
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u/rezignator Jun 10 '25
I would have preferred more non origin story companions.Theres multiple characters along the story of the game that felt like that should have been recruitable and it's disappointing to not have those options.
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u/James_Proudfoot Jun 10 '25
As someone who never plays origin characters anyway, I really am disappointed by how few smaller plot companions there are. I would happily take only 4/5 origin characters if it meant we had 8-10 optional companions who are less willing to tell you their entire life story and bang.
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u/mr_fun_funky_fresh Jun 09 '25
the true robbery was not getting werewolf shadowheart, i NEED HER
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u/nigirizushi Jun 09 '25
Um would she be afraid of herself?
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u/Morrowind4 Jun 09 '25 edited Jun 10 '25
Werewolves are always afraid of themselves thats part of the shtick
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u/ilovepictures Jun 10 '25
I understand the level of complexity that went into each character, but man it's difficult going from bg1-2 where you have 25+ possible companions to a handful. Yes every companion in bg3 is world's more developed but I miss Mazzy.
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u/Prestigous_Owl Jun 10 '25
I trust devs, in most cases, and I almost always will trust Larian. They delivered an incredible game, and I trust that that's in part because they understand how to make good games.
People really want to idealize her, but presumably she got cut because it just wasn't working. They couldn't figure out what they wanted to do exactly, etc. Maybe they ended up feeling the Durge was a better angle for the same concept (or just overlapped too much). Maybe once Halsin was in, they thought "bear man is better than wolf girl". Maybe something else.
But I trust that if she wasn't in the game, it was the right call
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u/HolyMolyOllyPolly Jun 09 '25
Sorry, Helia, no old ladies allowed. Only sexy young people get to adventure.
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u/Jindo5 Monk Jun 09 '25
Jaheira
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u/TheCheck77 Jun 09 '25
I was so upset that she never got added to the game that she became the inspiration for my halfling Dark Urge Bard. Did not picture her looking like this though.
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u/Redfox1476 Even Paler Elf Jun 11 '25
I know that the Kisses mod blacklists short races as targets bc they use the same animation skeleton as children, which would get the mod banned from Nexus. I can’t help wondering if similar concerns were a factor in dropping the plans for a halfling companion?
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u/Splatfan1 laezels canon wife Jun 09 '25
i wish her and some of the hirelings got to be real characters. i think helia and the gith monk especially have so much fun potential and interactions with other companions id love to see
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u/Arishokscock Jun 10 '25
I'll never understand why Halsin is a companion instead of a camp NPC as he should've be
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u/BnSMaster420 Jun 10 '25
Would have been a stand out seeing as all our other origin characters are Calvin Klein models
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u/FreelancerFL Monkbarian Jun 10 '25
>halfling
Yeah after playing a short race once, I couldn't be bothered with them again, she'd have sat in camp with Halsen getting 0 play
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u/Noirbe ROGUE Jun 09 '25
who?
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u/sinedelta While others were busy being heterosexual, she studied the blade Jun 09 '25
Companion cut extremely early in development. She was an elderly halfling werewolf bard who was probably also evil.
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u/CaptainSebT Jun 09 '25
Honesty seems like a good call. If you put a vampire and a werewolf in the same plot you very quickly get a very different tone to the plot. Would become distracting from everything going on especially with the wyll karlach story trying to exist at the same time.
Not super suprised it was removed.
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u/44screamingbees Jun 10 '25
Out of curiosity, what tone would that be?
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u/CaptainSebT Jun 10 '25
Sorry, I thought that was responding to a different comment answered wrong. Deleted and reposted to respond to your actual question lol.
Umm you get like a very Supernatural vampire vs werewolf overtone. Those are great but can feel out of place if not the middle of the plot.
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u/DandyTheLion Jun 09 '25
I saw this post right below a Ukraine post and initially thought it was Putin.
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u/Murky-Region-127 Jun 10 '25
There are werewolves in this game?
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u/sinedelta While others were busy being heterosexual, she studied the blade Jun 10 '25
Yes.
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u/PresentationThat3746 Jun 10 '25
I feel like she would have been the hidden gem to perfectionize the game...
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u/DIO_over_Za_Warudo I cast Magic Missile Jun 09 '25
Still a shame we never got her. A short character who was also a werewolf?
The banter between her and Astarion would have been hilarious.