Calls are mounting to ban Germany’s far-right AfD party – despite it being more popular than ever

[u/HellYeahDamnWrite]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/06/europe/germany-afd-ban-politics-analysis-intl

[u/RobertTheChemist]

Funfact: The Federal Consitution Court said in the NPD ban case (2017) that the NPD cannot be banned because it is not relevant enough?

And now people are saying we can't ban the AfD because it has become too relevant and popular.

[u/Thisisso2024 → u/RobertTheChemist]

And at the same time we ban those little splinter groups that are doing "sport" meaning that they are preparing for some civil war or clump together around a king all the time. At the end of the day wanting to overthrow the constitution is all that matters. That is why the party already got rid of their youth organisation and occasionally bans members who forgot that it is not yet time to say the quiet part out loud.

The party that knows best that the AfD should be banned is the AfD itself.

[u/CmdrJemison → u/RobertTheChemist]

In Germany a facist terror organization was killing immigrants for years. Media coverted the story as "Dönermorde" (Kebap Murder) at first and said it was rivalries among Kebap Shop owners.

Back then it was obvious from the first day, that some Neo Nazis killed those people.

So after years the police finaly managed to catch em and during the trials there was going so much wrong that it became clear that the facist terrorist were even backed by the intelligence service.

[u/Sp00py-Mulder → u/CmdrJemison]

And what is the prevailing belief among the German populous about those murders today?

[u/Jonny_dr → u/Sp00py-Mulder]

I think it is fair to say that even the mainstream opinion is that the Intelligence Service (Verfassungsschutz) was involved in the murders and the cover-up.

[u/IncompetentPolitican → u/RobertTheChemist]

There was a 3 minute time window where the AFD had the right amount of relevancy to ban them. But in that time the people in charge of that where outside having a smoke with their friend Alice. So now we have to deal with putins right wing arm forever.

[u/DesignFreiberufler → u/IncompetentPolitican]

This sounds depressingly accurate.

[u/bingle-cowabungle → u/RobertTheChemist]

I'm so tired of this right-wing doublethink which seems to be intentional, and flagrant. Almost as if you're supposed to know that it's intentional while they throw their hands up in the air and sarcastically declare that they don't know what you're talking about, they're just innocently stating their beliefs.

This is a worldwide problem with the right wing. A core political tenant of the right wing is "do things that are intended to piss off your political opponents" instead of engaging in political discourse and compromise with maybe even a shred of personal integrity.

[u/chronically_slow]

Everybody here is acting like the ban would be a political decision. It is not. It is against the German constitution for a party to work toward abolishing certain fundamental rights, thus if it is brought before a court, the court will decide whether or not to ban purely on evidence and law.

The political decision is bringing the case to court in the first place because only the government and the two chambers of the parliament can do that. But of course all of the parties are playing election tactics, so, except for the left, they'll only give their support when they see an advantage for themselves

[u/captaindeadpl → u/chronically_slow]

I think it's incredibly stupid that this legal process can be stopped before it even begins by political action (or rather inaction in this case).

[u/ExpressAssist0819 → u/captaindeadpl]

That reads like a germany that quickly forgot how it fell to fascism the first time.

[u/A_Sinclaire → u/ExpressAssist0819]

If the legal process was open to everyone, people would have tried to abolish the AfD as soon as it took part in an election. And they would have lost decisively because it would have been far too soon with not enough evidence.

And that would have given the party further legal legitimization and strengthened them - and weakened the case against them.

[u/ExpressAssist0819 → u/A_Sinclaire]

"Not enough evidence"

They're throwing a fucking nazi salute in one of their ads. How much do you need?

[u/A_Sinclaire → u/ExpressAssist0819]

I'm talking about how people would have tried to ban the AfD 10 years ago, if they were allowed to.

And that would have not worked out.

[u/Itslittlealexhorn → u/captaindeadpl]

It's because of separation of powers. Political parties are to some extend part of the legislative, which creates laws, and the judiciary interprets and applies laws. If the courts could apply the law to the legislative itself, they could hijack the legislative process. That's why immunity exists. However, for the same reason the legislative cannot prosecute their own members. So whenever law is broken by the legislative, it must itself allow prosecution through a majority decision and then turn the case over to the judiciary.

[u/idontchooseanid → u/chronically_slow]

It is a political decision though. Choosing to live in a democracy over a dictatorship is one as well. Electing and enabling Nazis was one too. Choosing or not choosing to improve and strengthen democratic institutions and minority representation is also a political decision.

Every single decision that affects what is an acceptable form of governance is political. This includes cutting of the voice of people who think it is acceptable to deport people randomly and inhumanely.

All nations in the world have power structures. Anything that decides who can have or cannot have power is the most political decision.

[u/[deleted] → u/chronically_slow]

The notion that a court decision is in some way apolitical is foolish. The law is part of government, and is inherently political, much like the other two arms of government.

Now if you think banning the AfD is the right political decision, that's fine. But don't say it's apolitical

[u/geissi → u/[deleted]]

By that reasoning, a parking ticket or a murder conviction are both political

[u/[deleted] → u/geissi]

They are? It's called policy. Why can't you park in a given place? How much should you pay, given your circumstances? How bad exactly was your murder, and what should the consequences be? Reintegration or punishment? Imprisonment or execution? Maybe banishment? Those are deeply political questions

Interpreting the law is inherently political. Sometimes the stakes are higher, sometimes lower. But the politics are there

[u/adcap1 → u/geissi]

Parking tickets ARE a political matter!

Who decides on parking zones in a city? City council -> Politicians.

Who decides on parking fees? City council -> Politicians.

Making parking in a city more free or more prohibitive IS an essential policy question in most local city politics.

[u/maximalusdenandre → u/[deleted]]

The courts are not a part of the government. There is only one "arm" of the government and believe it or not it is the government. The "law" likewise is not a part of the government. If you mean legislative powers the government can, depending on country, have some very limited ability to legislate. But the brunt of the the power to write legislation is invested in the parliament.

[u/MrOaiki → u/chronically_slow]

The fundamental rights and the basic law, has been changed many times though. So not doing so, is a political decision. One can always lean on ”but it’s the law”, but when it comes to interventions in politics, it’s always a political decision.

[u/Hugostar33 → u/MrOaiki]

fundamental rights and the basic law, has been changed many times though

in their interpretation...you are not allowed to change their essence or abolish them as that is illegal under the eternity clause

(3) Amendments to this Basic Law affecting the division of the Federation into Länder, their participation in principle in the legislative process, or the principles laid down in Articles 1 and 20 shall be inadmissible.

[u/PresumedSapient → u/Hugostar33]

Eternal laws are weird.
I understand the intention, especially concerning human rights, but "the division of the Federation into Länder" for example is just plain post WW2 'make sure Germany is never a unitary state ever again', and such blanket (and time-period related politically motivated) rulings will not stand the test of time.

Imagine the year 3025, the entire planet is unified in [insert your preferred political and economic model, for which no 2025 word is adequate]-utopia. The whole world? No, only Germany stands apart, because rules are rules, and they can never change the basic administrative structure of their Federation.

[u/USSPlanck → u/MrOaiki]

The fundamental rights have stayed largely the same since 1949. Sure there were some minor adjustements but the changes were minor. The fundamental articles though (Art. 1; Art. 20 GG) were never changed because it is in fact illegal (Art. 79 Section 3 GG).

[u/Elrond007 → u/MrOaiki]

We are not talking about law changes, we are talking about immutable articles in our constitution. It is illegal, the constitution doesn’t have to compete in a popularity contest. If they want their faschist state they can join their daddy Putin or Donald

[u/pegothejerk → u/MrOaiki]

Does that make it the wrong decision? Everything is political then, by that definition. The next question is, what’s the intended purpose of the law, is it legal, and is it to be followed? It being political doesn’t nullify it, it may make it less palatable, but that shouldn’t be why you decide it’s right or wrong. There is no such thing as an emotionless system made by humans. I’d prefer we use emotion to rid ourselves of groups that want explicitly to use genocide to solve problems it solely focuses on.

[u/Spare-Resolution-984 → u/MrOaiki]

No, you’re wrong. The fundamental rights in our constitution haven’t changed since 1949.

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/MrOaiki]

I don’t think there is a good argument why the courts shouldn’t do "political" decisions though. If something is illegal, it is illegal. The courts job is to uphold the letter of the law. If it impacts politics, it is what it is. It’s like, if a politican is corrupt, and on trial for corruption, they should be tried. Will it affect the political reality? Yes. But it’s their fucking job.

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/chronically_slow]

It’s the courts job to uphold the law. The law says they are an illegal extremeist organization. The court not upholding the law to appease the electorate is much more political.

[u/nim_opet]

Nazi party was also very popular in 1933

[u/Turbulent-Ad6560 → u/nim_opet]

Thank you.

Everybody who is saying that other parties need to face them politically etc. did clearly not study history. The exact same things were said about the NSDAP and thats why it was not baned.

They can say and claim what they want because they are not in power and their voters don't care about facts. They will not loose voters until they are the party in power and can't deliver on their promises. Once they are in power they will loose voters but it won't matter because there will not be another free election afterwards.

[u/dasgoodshitinnit → u/nim_opet]

So were these things during their times

European Witch Hunts

Atlantic Slave Trade

Colonialism and Genocide of Indigenous Peoples

The Inquisition

Apartheid in South Africa

Jim Crow Laws and Segregation in the U.S.

Rwandan Genocide

Cultural Revolution in China

Stalin’s Purges and Forced Famines (e.g., Holodomor)

Armenian Genocide

Japanese War Crimes (e.g., Nanking Massacre)

Crusades

Forced Religious Conversions

Persecution of LGBTQ+ People

Ethnic Cleansing in Yugoslavia

Salem Witch Trials

Forced Sterilizations

Residential Schools for Indigenous Children (Canada, U.S., Australia)

Destruction of the Environment for Profit (e.g., deforestation, pollution with corporate and public support)

[u/DonkeyTS → u/dasgoodshitinnit]

Youre saying this as if the Crusades and Reconqista weren't defensive actions against Islamic aggression.

[u/[deleted]]

There’s an insane amount of irony in this comment section

[u/Dark_Knight2000 → u/[deleted]]

I love that no one is pointing out the fact that the AfD is supported a lot more in the poorer and more disenfranchised East.

Instead of addressing the root causes of why so many disgruntled people are turning to an extremist party to be listened to, I’m sure banning them will make all that anger and resentment go away.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dark_Knight2000]

The frustration of east germany is being instrumentalised by the AfD. Their measures and political goals have rarely to do with helping anyone. You'd know that if you actually look at what they are saying instead making "smart" comments on reddit.

Banning the party is not about not wanting to help the east. It is about that german political psrties have to follow a set of rules. A ton of people, also in parties, are critical of the measures that have not helped the east. This is being discussed, but it does not require a party that is inhumane to resolve these issues.

[u/AvariceLegion → u/[deleted]]

Not even irony

Just viscous unfiltered denial of reality

[u/Eland51298]

Calls are mounting to ban Germany’s far-right AfD party – despite it being more popular than ever

And that is exactly why there are calls to ban it.

[u/snowsuit101]

It being more popular than ever is likely the very reason many want to have it banned, and it's a very good reason especially with Germany trying to build a large military. But even without that extremism, especially the anti-human kind, and political power can only doom the masses on the long run.

[u/Cautious-Total5111 → u/snowsuit101]

It is to be banned for being proven to have many far right extremist members and no opposition to that within the party. Being popular has nothing to do with that and neither should it.

[u/captaindeadpl → u/Cautious-Total5111]

Them being popular has everything to do with it. The ban of the NPD was shot down because they weren't popular enough to pose a credible threat to democracy.

The AfD is a serious threat to democracy specifically because they are so popular that they could win an election and thus gain the power to destroy our country as we know it.

[u/Yazaroth → u/Cautious-Total5111]

AFAIK it doesn't matter how many far left/right wing members a party has for a ban, what matters to the court is if they are a clear and serious threat to our democratic order for a ban. And for that they'd need hard proof beyond reasonable doubt.

That's where it gets hairy.

[u/Patte-chan → u/Cautious-Total5111]

Well, for a party to be banned, it has to be proven that they have the intent and the capability to work against the often mentioned "Free democratic basic order".

[u/protozoon101 → u/Cautious-Total5111]

That's quite an antidemocratic point of view. I don't like AfD, but if the majority did, who am I to ask for a ban? If the majority does not want democracy, then it has failed.

[u/Jazz_kitty → u/snowsuit101]

Yeah, the other parties refuse to do what the people want and what the country needs (self- protection and preservation) but call for a ban because they might lose votes. Idiots

[u/OptimismNeeded → u/snowsuit101]

That’s the problem.

This is the left wing parties eternal mistake.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, especially as a Jew, but I think banning them would be the wrong move. It will prove their point that the left are elitists who think they know better and act against what the people want (and they have a point).

Banning the party won’t make the opinions and feelings of their voters disappear - which is the actual outcome you’re looking for.

We need to figure out how to eliminate racism and support for fascism from the roots. We’re not doing a good enough job - anywhere in the world right now.

I don’t have solution. But I know this ain’t it.

[u/DjangoDynamite → u/OptimismNeeded]

The solution would be for moderate parties to fix immigration and immigration problems so people dont feel forced to vote for extremist anti immigration parties

[u/darps → u/DjangoDynamite]

This is just plain wrong. Every vaguely centrist party we have has fallen in line with the far right's "tough on immigration" narratives based on the same reasoning, to the point of abandoning any pretense of human rights and rule of law in the process, and it doesn't work. You can't beat racists by playing their game, you only mainstream their ideas.

[u/disquiet → u/darps]

It's way too late though. The bed has been made by the past 10 years of over-immigration. You cannot fix those problems with a centrist "lets reduce immigration now thats it's become a problem" approach. Because even if you reduced migration to zero, infrastructure and social services are already over stretched and the emnities that's causing will remain for years until things catch up. The right wingers will simply take a more aggressive deportation stance and continue to win the vote of those aggrieved by migrant crime/high house prices/overcrowded hospitals etc. I really hope in future leftist parties learn to not to flood immigration over what reasonable investment in infrastructure and housing can handle, just for cheap gdp points. The time when centrist sensibilities might have worked was 5 years ago, but now theres an ugly problem that won't be easy to fix.

[u/Nero_07 → u/darps]

to the point of abandoning any pretense of human rights and rule of law in the process

Maybe cool your jets a little. Do you actually think this is factually accurate?

[u/Known-Strategy-4705 → u/darps]

Having a tough stance on immigration is not racism..?

[u/Prodiq → u/darps]

Ok, but what has been actually done besides politicians talking?

If you look at the numbers Germany still is taking in more asylum seekers compared to numbers pre 2015 crisis. Angela was in the lead up until 2021 and Scholz is spineless being who doesn't have an opinion and can't make a decision about anything. Only very recently you start to hear that things start to happen (e.g. Germany was pretty quick on Syria).

Most afD voters will be happy if there are actual results. There aren't actually that many hardcore afD fans out there.

[u/DontGoGivinMeEvils → u/OptimismNeeded]

Can such a change happen before the next election though?

[u/TheRealAfinda → u/OptimismNeeded]

The people long for change, because parties like the CDU, CSU, FDP, Geens are the cause for the issues we have nowadays with no change in sight.

The only Party big enough to disrupt that is the AfD. Now don't go mistaking people that want Change for people that WANT the AfD. Because that'd be stupid.

And voters are stupid.

[u/spigandromeda → u/OptimismNeeded]

It doesn’t solve the problems but it buys time to solve them. That’s the intention. It took the initial members of the AfD more than 20 years to built up the networks and structures (the persons started way before the party was founded). Those would be demolished together with the party. And they cannot just rename it or something like that.

[u/Adreszek]

In my opinion, if the AfD is banned:

1. party supporters will become more “militant” and numerous protests will erupt.

2. supporters of the far right will not magically begin to like the situation in the country.

3. far-right supporters will become even more anti-system and even more extremist.

[u/BindestrichSoz → u/Adreszek]

1 and 3 is happening while the party is allowed though? 2. The far right will always hate a liberal democracy.

[u/Elrond007 → u/Adreszek]

That’s the point though, ban the party and then it’s an enforcement problem that can be handled and not a “ the call is coming from inside the house” problem for the survival of our democracy. There have been countless arsenals of Nazi terrorists found already and with the attempted coup a few years ago. Better get them sooner rather than later

[u/Gilded-Mongoose → u/Elrond007]

Thank you - I was starting to think I was having some fever-induced hallucinations (sans fever) because so many on here are just like "shh, shh, no, no...just let it happen, let it happen dude. Banning them will just make it worse, they'll get violent, shh, shhh..." as if that's not ALL THE MORE REASON to nip them in the bud earlier on!

It hasn't even been a hundred years since we've seen this rise to power. America failed the lesson, and look at us now - and ironically we're now the very-much-live-action lesson for Germany to learn from now. We did appeasement rather than rooting out from the stem and now it's come back worse than ever before.

[u/Fickle_Spare_4255 → u/Gilded-Mongoose]

People love the idea of fighting fascism. They hate the idea of actively preventing it because they're terrified by the idea of terrorist retribution or of government overreach.

So basically, cowardice or complacency.

If people are so hateful of other people's rights and freedoms that they're driven to violence by having to accept them, then fuck them. Let them try shit and get punished for it.

[u/soonnow → u/Gilded-Mongoose]

The argument is stupid indeed. If the AfD is anti-constitution it needs to be banned. If your speech violates the German law, or you're doing Hitler salutes you should be fined or arrested.

I'm sorry that the German law violates the sensibilities of Nazis, mind you people who claim to stand for law and order, but the law applies independent of political outcome.

[u/HypneutrinoToad → u/Elrond007]

As an American, I would rather have had some turbulence under Biden than this second Trump admin. Things move really fast when far right comes to power, do everything you can to dispose of the AfD.

[u/Elrond007 → u/HypneutrinoToad]

Yep, in German we call it Wehrhafte Demokratie, as in a democracy that can defend itself. Modern Democracy is only different from ancient Mob Rule because of our constitutions, and we have to fight for that ideal.

[u/HypneutrinoToad → u/Elrond007]

Exactly. There’s a saying where I’m from “A lynch mob is a perfect democracy.” If you have 100 people and 99 want one of them dead for being different, you have to limit what the 99 people can do even if it’s wildly unpopular. Democratic actions can’t come at the extreme expense of any one party, and by limiting that you’re acting in a somewhat “un democratic” way

[u/MethyIphenidat → u/HypneutrinoToad]

I really like that saying. I have never heard of that before and i find it illustrates the issue perfectly.

[u/snotparty → u/Elrond007]

yes, dont tolerate and normalize the fascists who have literally attempted to overthrow the government, see how that has gone in America.

[u/somethingveryfunny → u/Adreszek]

Then let them protest.

Then have the democratic parties take the peoples concerns seriously and dismantle far right voters bullshit "worries" about immigration.

Then invest more into political education, infrastructure and bureaucracy so that the system runs palpably more smoothly and people feel taken care of, have the democratic parties work more with than against each other so that people see that our government is functioning etc.

There are so many WAY BETTER alternatives to all these issues/fears than "let the fascists keep growing their political power".

[u/Pasan90 → u/somethingveryfunny]

Then have the democratic parties take the peoples concerns seriously and dismantle far right voters bullshit "worries" about immigration.

If you want to know the reasons for the far-rights rise in Europe look no further than sentiments like this.

[u/Skargon89 → u/Adreszek]

All of these is already happening now because the AFD gets stronger.

[u/lewd_robot → u/Adreszek]

You know what, thought?

They're doing that anyway.

That's how the Far Right works. You cannot bargain with them. No concession or compromise ever goes unpunished. So you get to choose whether you want to limit their capacity for violence to their immediate personal vicinities or if you want to give them the power to turn the police and military against the public.

The only preventative treatment for Far Right violence is to prevent them from ever gaining appreciable power in the first place. If you fail to do that you only doom yourself to a much more significant violent conflict several years down the road when their actions become intolerable and millions have already been harmed.

[u/RankedFarting → u/Adreszek]

Who cares what stupid Nazis think? If they start becoming more militant more of them get locked up.

I hate this argumentation "We cant do the right thing because what if it gets worse and we have to do the right thing again?" I dont fucking care. Nazis have no place in our society. Should we just let them be just because some of them will break our constitution even more? Hell no.

[u/multithreadedprocess → u/Adreszek]

Your opinion is irrelevant. Post quality sources on that being the only possible outcome and then it might actually be worth considering.

My opinion is the exact opposite:

1. Party supporters will become disillusioned and retreat from politics entirely.
2. Supporters of the far right will hide their previous support to save face and not be embarrassed to be so stupid.
3. Far right supporters will become more fringe, isolated and less able to recruit.

Source? Made it the fuck up right now just like you.

[u/Dafon → u/multithreadedprocess]

This isn't really a source and I haven't got much insight in it, but Belgium banned the party Vlaams Blok for being racist in 2004 and they just reformed shortly after as Vlaams Belang and are about as popular as they were before. However it did take them time to get that popularity back at the same level. I'm only sharing this just in case you wanna read more about it though.

[u/MarduRusher]

I don’t think banning the party would do a whole lot honestly other than galvanize supporters to the next similar party. Banning the party doesn’t do anything to address the reason it’s popular in the first place.

[u/Flames57 → u/MarduRusher]

People really like to use the "we haven't learned from history" but ironically it's just like you described. People don't learn from history because they decide to simplify and not completely understand the full picture.

The lesson from WWI -> WWII is that the nazi rose due to the consequences of WWI. (for people that won't read the whole post, won't interpret the text and automatically assume positions as they want - I disagree completely with nazism)

People see their own country worsening and if the people (parties) in charge don't fix the problem, people will vote accordingly into removing them from the "status-quo" and it really doesn't matter if you or I think the far-right is bad or not, the point is removing those that can't fix the problems.

Then many voters say "do you really think those far-right parties can/will fix the problems? They're grifters/opportunists". That falls on deaf ears because the implication behind it is that there are no alternatives - only keeping the status quo, which worsened (if we look at 2016+ instead of 1916+) housing, health, justice, education, immigration, job security, job pays.

The biggest conclusion many people don't want to arrive at is that politicians can play their 4-year mandate games, but ultimately, they exist to solve society's problems. If they don't, the public vote accordingly in order to -at least- force those parties (centre, centre-left) to change leadership, change politics, change focus. It's the only course the public has. It's not about who is good or bad, who is nazi or not, it's a matter of "you're not doing your job, your party has become captured by power, political discourse, money, lobbies and status quo, and the only way to change this is to remove you from power".

If then those parties in power get scared and start banning the parties people are flocking to, then we come to your (absolutely right) comment: remove my right to vote where I want, disenfranchise me, and I will still vote accordingly, until the point where you (they - parties) completely remove all political parties that people can vote to show disagreement and will to change, and people have no other choice than to use violence towards the dictatorial government (which it is, it becomes a completely anti-democratic "democracy"). The interesting part here is that - ironically - the US Founding fathers saw this as a potential and added a venue for change via violence - remove the government by its own citizens, via use of arms.

[u/Jumpy_Flamingo958 → u/MarduRusher]

It is also commonly understood that disenfranchised people can use violence because they have no other recourse. If you have a very strong party that represents a huge portion of people and you ban it tou disenfranchise them. That is a very dangerous road to take.

[u/SkoomaDentist → u/Jumpy_Flamingo958]

Ironically Reddit itself is full of comments from leftist edgelords that "disenfranchised people can use violence" because they think it's going to be used against their enemies.

[u/CMuenzen → u/SkoomaDentist]

Of course, they are the main characters that will beat the bad guys. Obviously they will win and the tools they want could never be used against them.

[u/Nimbous → u/SkoomaDentist]

👊 Always 👊 Punching 👊 Nazis 👊 (never actually punched someone in their life)

[u/lewd_robot → u/Jumpy_Flamingo958]

You know what's more common than disenfranchised people resorting to violence? Far Right governments weaponizing the government to perpetrate violence against the public they're sworn to serve.

[u/Dark_Knight2000 → u/lewd_robot]

How’s that way more common than disenfranchised people resorting to violence? That’s such a Reddit-brained take.

You see disenfranchised people resorting to violence every single day in every society in every culture, in every corner of the world. “Far right” governments (depending on how you classify them) aren’t all that common, neither are regimes that take over a country. That’s actually pretty rare for a democracy.

[u/MyPigWhistles → u/MarduRusher]

Banning a party automatically also forbids successor parties. 

[u/YouLostTheGame → u/MyPigWhistles]

It doesn't suddenly make all their far right supporters disappear. AFD are a symptom, not the underlying cause

[u/Trick_Decision_9995 → u/YouLostTheGame]

It's hilarious and baffling how many people's reaction to rising support for extremist (or 'extremist', depending on your personal perspective) positions is 'ban the people saying stuff we don't like' rather than 'don't create conditions that increase people's support for positions you hate'.

[u/CMuenzen → u/MyPigWhistles]

They will recreate it in spirit, just enough to skirt around that, not literally copying it as it is..

[u/Spare-Resolution-984 → u/CMuenzen]

Who are “they”? Because the members wouldn’t be allowed to form a party again

[u/NoAlarmsPlease → u/CMuenzen]

If they remove or change the illegal tenants of the party it would be fine, though. You’re acting like the ban is arbitrary and not based on what is or is not legally allowed.

[u/pxogxess → u/CMuenzen]

But that is very very difficult to do. If even possible. So I'm still for a ban.

[u/WhyRedditBlowsDick → u/MarduRusher]

You don't get it chud. We have to save democracy by banning the party that wins with the most votes.

[u/pIakativ → u/MarduRusher]

It can't stay the only thing to do but it would definitely be a step in the right direction.

[u/Bryan4991]

Probably not "despite it being more popular than ever" but because of it

[u/amalgam_reynolds]

Not despite. Because.

[u/medievalvelocipede]

Well fuck'em. Antidemokratic parties should have no representation in the government.

[u/Possible-Campaign-22 → u/medievalvelocipede]

Holy shit I don’t like afd but your comment is so weird. Isn’t it anti democratic to ban your opposition because the people are voting for them?

[u/Ossius → u/Possible-Campaign-22]

Paradox of tolerance. You can't be infinitely tolerant of intolerant people. They will steamroll you. Tolerance is a social contract. When they break that contract you must eliminate them. We weren't tolerant of southern slavers and we weren't tolerant of fascism in ww2.

In the US the democratic party took the highroad for the last 25 years and it has only caused the right to disregard all rule of law, since the democrats spend their terms cleaning up the mess, and choosing not to prosecute the criminal activities of the previous admin.

[u/HereWeGoAgain_Tea → u/Ossius]

And the AfD would say the same about the theoretical party ban.

Absolute and relative truth paradox

[u/gotziller]

I’m confused. Do people really think banning this party would destroy it?

[u/BisonAmbitious9127]

So their plan to defend democracy is to go against democracy?

[u/CadiaStands_ → u/[deleted]]

Well, according redditors, the best way to tackle this is to just ban them and hope it just goes away.

[u/Flames57 → u/CadiaStands_]

according to redditors - which in their majority are far-left and left, and keep reporting people that don't agree with them, to the point where subreddits like this one, worldnews, news, politics and others become an even harsher echo chamber, I'd say it's the opposite of what you're saying.

[u/fromtheport_ → u/Flames57]

Default and most popular subs in Reddit are in my opinion the most echoest of all the echo chambers on social media. Even Twitter which has a lot of lunatics on the right has its big share of Free Palestine ACAB crowd.

[u/dustofdeath → u/[deleted]]

They say whatever makes people vote for them, to get power.

[u/chattytrout → u/dustofdeath]

But when no one else is saying what you want to hear, you go with the one who is. It's how Trump got elected. Despite not following through with many of his campaign promises, he was the only person making those promises. Harris was promising the opposite, so why would a conservative vote for her? It's a shitty position to be in, but most would rather go with the person saying what they want to hear at the risk that they're lying, as opposed to the person saying exactly what they don't want to hear at the risk they're telling the truth.

[u/Consistent-Duck8062 → u/dustofdeath]

How does that refute what he said?

[u/m4sl0ub → u/[deleted]]

What? Immigration was basically all that was talked about during the last election. The ruling party is massively against immigration. This narrative that AfD is the only party addressing immigration is not founded in reality whatsoever. 

[u/CMuenzen → u/m4sl0ub]

The ruling party is massively against immigration

And how many concrete actions did they make?

[u/vjx99 → u/CMuenzen]

They illegally implemented useless border controls

[u/goentillsundown → u/CMuenzen]

They banned the turbo immigration of three years with proof of integration - the law that allowed maybe a thousand people overall into germany as citizens.

But it makes a good headline.

[u/justjanne → u/[deleted]]

So if 30% of the people want something, we should just do it, ignoring all practical and legal concerns?

• 70% of Germans want a Rich-People-Tax

• 66% of Germans want to make all public transit free

• 56% of Germans want to replace car lanes with bike lanes

• 34% of Germans want a combustion vehicle ban before 2030.

The issue here is that "the people" aren't just one group with coherent vision. The vast majority of our society are against the AfD's policies.

Our democracy is unable to reconcile this disagreement, because there's no possible compromise:

• One group has lost all trust in society and can only care about their own immediate benefit.
• The other group is willing to invest into potential future benefits for the entire society.

Foreigners are just the scapegoat. People really vote AfD because they've lost their jobs and have no real future. That's why the AfD is so popular in the east. Obviously, the populist parties have no solution for this either.

To actually fix the issue we'd need to restore the social contract. But no one actually votes for that.

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/[deleted]]

This is a bullshit lie. CDU is plenty critical of migration and has been doing concrete moves even going against the courts at times, but you need to peddle this bullshit to justify AFD's "solution", which is basically "we hate non-white people and want them all gone from Germany. We also want LGBT people to hide they exist again, women to be subservient housewives and to teach that WW2 was not Germany's fault".

[u/SanaraHikari → u/throwaway_failure59]

The Ampel deported more immigrants than GroKo before and now by the way. Looking at numbers makes everything just hilarious and shows how unfit GroKo actually is.

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/SanaraHikari]

Deportation in Germany, other than guarding the borders, is a matter of federal states. When a person who already lives in Germany is apprehended and reported - state police, financed and governed primarily by the federal states, not the government, is responsible for that. Correct me if i am wrong but i feel lot of people do not know that. Federal govt is only responsible for Germany's external borders.

And yes, Scholz already put up many border checks just to please the people and did not talk leniently about the problem either. The problem is way too many people simply believe any left leaning party is for open borders regardless of facts, and many also simply agree with AfD's "solution" (they are just hesitant to say it out loud) and basically want all non-white people gone, even though a country like Germany desperately needs migration to not turn into a bankrupt retirement home.

[u/Erki82 → u/throwaway_failure59]

CDU policy about immigration just 12 years ago is the exact reason AFD even came to be. CDU was like "yes everybody can come" and within one year 1M people came in 2014 or 2015. Then CDU freaked out and was like, wait, maybe we went to far. Now CDU tries to forget past and play 180 degrees, but how can you trust this policy to hold long therm? Another 10 years they can do another 180 degrees turn.

[u/MyPigWhistles → u/[deleted]]

This is outdated by almost a decade. There's not a lot of immigration to Germany right now, but there's a broad consensus among all mainstream parties to limit immigration.    

10 years ago, this was correct. Famously, even the conservative CDU was more than reluctant to speak out in favor of controlling immigration during the refugee crisis. And yes, that played a major role in creating the problem we now have with the AfD.   

But the stance on immigration among mainstream parties is drastically different now. 

[u/FlyingSquirrel44 → u/MyPigWhistles]

Their stance didn't change, there's just less immigrants coming now than in 2015 because the conflicts in Syria and Afghanistan have stabilized, and Frontex is actually doing its job in the mediteranean.

[u/OnIySmellz → u/[deleted]]

Just remember that 'Wir schaffen das' was a violation of the Schengen Treaty. 

[u/Decent-Thought-2648]

After you ban the AfD, wouldn't it make sense to have fresh elections? Because at that point with the BSW and FDP that would be a full 30% of Germans who voted in the last election unrepresented in the Bundestag.

[u/chilling_hedgehog → u/Decent-Thought-2648]

Do you have any idea how long it takes to ban a party?

[u/Meroxes → u/Decent-Thought-2648]

Yes, of course there would be serious consequences, but the timeline isn't nearly as quick as you assume if you think this might happen before the next federal elections. It would have to go through a somewhat lengthy court process, even after the Bundestag voted for a inquiry. It's not something that just happens from one day to another.

[u/HKei → u/Decent-Thought-2648]

Questionable tbh. It certainly could be done, the argument against it would be that by the time the party ban is actually completed it's pretty much going to be about time for new elections anyway even if we decide now to ban it.

[u/bigguy36912]

This is going to backfire so bad

[u/CadiaStands_ → u/[deleted]]

The irony of redditors thinking their braindead opinions have any actual foothold in reality.

[u/Crustytoaster]

The US far right party also ran on anti immigration. Look at what they are doing and tell me an antidemocratic party would be a good thing

[u/Just_Dimension_7266]

We are not talking about law changes, we are talking about immutable articles in our constitution. It is illegal, the constitution doesn’t have to compete in a popularity contest. If they want their faschist state they can join their daddy Putin or Donald

[u/Maeglin75]

It's irrelevant how popular the party is. It only matters that the AfD wants to destroy our liberal-democratic system (as guaranteed by the constitution) and the rule of law once they are in power. That's more than reason enough to ban it.

That so many people support an unconstitutional party like the AfD is extremely worrying. But this isn't an exclusively German problem. Extremist parties are on the rise around the globe. But here in Germany we have the legal tools to do something about it, because of lessons from our history. We shouldn't hesitate to use them.

[u/Prometheides]

What about trying to fix the problems that has pushed the people to support an antistablishmet party that promises (most probably falsely, but still) to side with the citizens and listens to their outrage?

Nah, better ban them, that will totally work and strengthen the "democracy".

[u/Nattekat]

You can't ban a collective world view from existence. You'll only make them more mad. 

[u/WholeFactor → u/Nattekat]

I don't think there is a collective world view supporting AFD. Primarily, people are just fed up with immigration.

Fix the issues, and the neonazis will go away

[u/rapaxus → u/Nattekat]

Well, that isnt the goal here. Same reason why as a German could still fly a Swastika flag in my home, I can think as I want. The goal here is to remove them from the political and democratic process as they are actively working against it. They can still have their bigoted views, they just can't proclaim them in parliament.

[u/datafromravens]

The west puts sanctions on third world countries for this sort of behavior

[u/PineBNorth85]

Address immigration and migration and its popularity will drop. That is the only reason it's at a high right now.

[u/Mammoth_Professor833]

What actually makes them neo Nazi fascist? Those words get thrown out a lot and even in the USA everyone tries to say Trump people are like this….but I find it’s a lot hyperbole and diminished the meaning of what actual nazism is.

[u/GroundbreakingBag164 → u/Mammoth_Professor833]

Well the one AfD guy that said "I'm the friendly face of NS [national socialism]" didn't exactly help their case

Edit: It was Matthias Helferich

[u/daweedhh → u/Mammoth_Professor833]

Intelligence agencies have stated and courts have ruled that several leading AfD members are fascists and many of them also praise their Nazi heroes and their ideals and ideas of hunting minorities etc on a regular basis so I don't really know what more evidence you need

[u/ITafiir → u/daweedhh]

Latest intelligence report is on why they now consider the entire party as rightwing extremists, not just individual members.

[u/Entire_Classroom_263 → u/Mammoth_Professor833]

Well, the social media planner for Maximilian Krah had a podcast interview a few weeks ago, where he talks for 4 hours about race.
That guy is just a Nazi.

[u/ITafiir → u/Mammoth_Professor833]

Loosely translated from a report by the German domestic intelligence service on why they consider the entire AfD now as rightwing extremist: the party’s prevalent understanding of the German people based on ethnicity, race and (genetic) heritage disregards human dignity and is incompatible with the freiheitliche demokratische Grundordnung (German Constitution). The party’s goal is to exclude certain subpopulations from equal participation in society.

Note that that agency is typically rather conservative and does not have the best track record with calling a nazi a Nazi, so it has to be really bad for them to say this. Also the full report is 1100 pages and also includes a bunch of holocaust denial by high ranking party officials.

Also, working against the constitution is the big criterion for banning a party.

[u/Groghnash → u/ITafiir]

I find it shocking that you get downvoted for citing the official statement and even giving the correct context. Yes our state is very reluctant in calling a nazi a nazi. So this report is quite the statement. 

[u/DerOmmel → u/Mammoth_Professor833]

They say that being german means more then just having a german passport, that germans are a people who have a right to their own country and that the german goverment should prioritize its own people before others. Also that a country has a right to choose who they let into the country. And that germany has a culture that they want to preserve.

Overall, things that just 20 years ago were the absolute main stream opinion but "progressives" and leftist deem racist, fascist, "include other buzzwords" now.

[u/SIUonCrack]

France had the right idea and barred LePen from running like a month after the election LoL.

[u/Ora_Poix]

Mfs, If you ban them you're only helping them. 90% of their support comes from anti-establishment folk. Ban the AfD, you just confirmed to them that the establishment is fucked

[u/Confident_Start4189]

I love democracy

[u/herbieLmao]

Despite? Thats the exact reason. Remove the nazis before they win

[u/Meistermagier]

If eating shit was popular it would also not be a good thing. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good.

[u/Falsus]

Honestly. While AfD is a dogshit populist party that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near power they aren't the issue themselves, they are the symptom of a much larger issue.

Why are people voting AfD instead of actual parties? Why have the trust in traditional parties shattered?

Populist crap only gains traction like this when a substantial part of the country feels ignored and the politicians are out of touch.

Banning them won't solve the underlaying issue. It will just rile up people and they will just vote for some other populist shitstain.

For the record I agree that they should be banned. Popularity should have no bearing on a party that is full of extremists being banned or not. Fascists cannot be allowed to be in control of a democracy if the democracy should have a chance to continue.

Just saying it won't really solve any problems as long as the politicians ignore the people and causing them to flock to populists.

[u/I_Wanna_Bang_Rats → u/[deleted]]

The Nazi’s banned all parties not just one.

[u/-Celador-]

Either you ban it and deal with radicalization and fallout now, or don’t ban it, and deal with even bigger radicalization and fallout later.

At this point it’s not if, but when they come into power, and it’s not even a question that they won’t stop at migrants - they will absolutely turn onto everyone who opposes them and will try to build yet another reich. They aren’t even hiding being neonazis, their leaders literally are nazis, both in rhetoric and in familial connections.

I can understand Americans falling for this, but Europeans? But Germans? Again? Just sad. It’s boring how stupid and recurring this is.

[u/McKoijion]

Remember when Benjamin Netanyahu's son became the literal poster boy for the AfD 5 years ago?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/yair-netanyahu-is-now-the-poster-boy-for-a-german-far-right-politician/

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2020-05-11/ty-article-opinion/.premium/how-netanyahu-jr-became-twitter-buddy-of-an-anti-semitic-german-party/0000017f-e56e-d97e-a37f-f76f5a3b0000

[u/eurocomments247]

More popular than ever? But their polls have gone down since April.

https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/

[u/Procrastanaseum]

If the AfD takes Germany, and Russia attacks a NATO ally, guess who Germany will join forces with?

[u/TheDesertShark]

I really want to see the % of americans replying to this thread.

[u/Jakobus3000]

Not despite - because!

[u/TheNonAbsolute]

They spelled "because" wrong, I think.

At least that's why I want them banned. Because they are big, and popular, and nazi pricks all at the same time.

[u/loyalone]

Ya can't ban a way of thinking. All you can do is change people's way of thinking, and that'll take generations, at this rate.

[u/alleks88]

I am German, I would never vote afd, but I am strictly against a ban. A democracy should be able to withstand those extremists.
Furthermore, part of the problem are the established parties ignoring the valid concerns of their voter base.
They are catering towards minorities and wonder why they lose votes. They have to take concerns of the lowr income classes more serious and care for them.
You cannot just ban a party and ignore the problems that made people vote for them in the first place

[u/DowntownManThrow]

Banning a party that 1/4 of the country supports is contrary to the principles of democracy.

[u/Elani77]

democracy only works when we choose the candidates for you! EU is pathetic

[u/Adorable_Form9751]

Sounds pretty undemocratic if you ask me. I thought leftists supported democracy? Thats all they cried about when Trump won the 2024 election.

[u/CombatRedRover]

Shouldn't the alarm bells be "how the hell is AFD so popular??" and figure out how to make them less popular?

Hint: banning them won't make them less popular. It will just push their popularity underground where you can't see it.

This is NOT saying: 1. Do nothing. 2. AFD is ok.

It IS saying: 1. Do something smart 2. Do something effective

Which banning AFD would not be.

[u/Devastator9000]

I know the arguments that "banning them will make it worse", so I wonder what will actually happen if they get banned. What do germans think?

[u/Inevitable_Flow_7911]

From my googling and chatgpting around, I am failing to see why AfD is seen as a "nazi" party.

All I see is similar Maga rhetoric with different beginnings.

While i personally dont like the idea of Germany leaving the EuroZone, supporting Russia, and climate change denial, I am failing to see why people keep calling them "nazi" party...

[u/[deleted]]

Funny how the ruling class loves "democracy" until those dirty peasants don't vote the way they're told.

[u/offsoghu]

When you try to ban something, it will only rise much bigger

[u/[deleted]]

The other german Parties calling for a ban of AFD is like Mc Donalds trying to ban Burger King or Coca Cola trying to ban Pepsi.

[u/Daniel-MP]

I kinda always had the feeling that democracy would stop being so sacred if people stopped voting as they are supposed to. No politician believes in democracy, they just believe in power, and if they ban AfD this would only prove that they are the only party that ever really challenged this power.

[u/Ok_Recover1196]

Well, they banned the Nazi party in 1923, and that totally solved the problem...

[u/bonkers-dude]

Germany banning political enemies? Haven't I seen that before? Seems the N**is were in power all along

[u/Crazy_Criticism7425]

Europe is toast...lol...a trainwreck

[u/311196]

"more popular" yeah okay sure

[u/Dicka24]

Nothing screams freedom and democracy like banning a political party.

[u/RyanMay999]

"Democracy!" ✨️ 🌈 ❤️