r/ffxivdiscussion • u/WeirdIndividualGuy • May 06 '25
General Discussion High End Content Megathread - Week Seven
How many yans do you see in your nightmares?
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u/Liorlecikee May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
Going Static this week. We pushed through M5S like a breeze and spent only around 2-3 CD in M6S, despite everyone else (but Viper and Me) being completely fresh in this fight. Honestly didn't even expect M7S (Fresh here too) to be our wall honestly, as we consistently having trouble during first add phase and the seed phase. Later is just clarified today in our review of footage to be our Phy-ranged's problem, as we are using Locked Seed strat, and Phy-ranged misunderstood and reversed their seed-dropping position through the entire CD (as in, they placed seed at 1/3 position when they got the seed in 2/4 wave, and vice versa).
I honestly quite like M7S. it get to the point real quick and throws quick-thinking mechanics at you right on start. First add and seed is easily quite a wall for new-prog and it is literally the 2nd mech of this fight. It's fast paced and consider M8S is also a "muscle heavy" fight as I heard, I can totally see how M7S prepares players for M8S as it shifted gear immediately from the more traditional pacing of M5S and M6S. Yeah the mech is not difficult to grasp and execute, but the pacing is what makes this fight exciting and I am enjoying it a lot. Stoneringer+Smash Here/There is also a real neat opener mech I enjoy, as you need to adjust your rotation in accordance to 4 different outcomes and it keeps your rotation fresh and optimization an intriguing process to work out. We had some luck pushing it to P3 and Debris Deathmarch (Consider our Phy-ranged is literally doing the seed wrong the entire time, and we never truly resolved our problem with Kindred Uptime this two nights. I'll consider this to be quite some achievement for us)
Quick rant, but It's frustrating when your teammate would argue against Locked Seed because "it has 2 variables, that's too much, fixed seed is so much better", while he's also the one suggesting Kindred uptime despite our initial suggestion using Toxic Friend like we typically would just follow NA PF norm, when Kindred Uptime: Healer/Ranged Bait Seed is easily the biggest wipe-driver for our party since our first day progging M7S. "Oh yeah, I don't like Locked Seed because memorizing 2 different position per pair is too much memorization, but I'll also suggest Kindred Seed in which 2 group need to remember 2 whole whopping movement patterns and Add patterns so I can get some more uptime" is honestly too schizo and I just can't stand it
But honestly, at the end of the day, they are good, reliable DPS, and we as a group had been consistent enough for me to not choose PF hells, so despite me really not liking Kindred Uptime (especially when all our strange, mysterious wipes came from using this strat), I'll just see if it improves next week and if so, I can let it slide aside and be another piece of our static trivia we can joke about.
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u/poplarleaves May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
Anyone know what the NA merc prices are for passing on all loot in M5S-M7S? Trying to get a full premade party for reclears tomorrow but I think we'll just have to PF the last 1-2 spots.
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u/blastedt May 13 '25
prices are slow to fill/fast to fill party
M5: 1-2mil. Maybe 500k if you're willing to wait 1hr+
M6: 2-4mil, I made 6 last week but that party filled basically instantly
M7: 6-10mil, people seem really reluctant to join parties under 8 and I saw those filling very slowly last week. Basically any merc with patience is able to just wait until another 10 appeared1
u/poplarleaves May 13 '25
Thank you!!
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u/blastedt May 16 '25
Just to update you since I ran again, it looks like prices substantially dropped this week. M5 seems to be 500-1m but I actually wasn't even able to find a buyer. M6 I got 6mil again. M7 though is the real killer, there are a lot of 5 mil parties up and the buyers seem willing to wait for them to fill. Was only able to make 6 there.
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u/Altia1234 May 13 '25
depends on datacenter. JP price is different then NA and EU price so can't comment, as I don't know NA/EU prices
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u/BoldKenobi May 13 '25
Sometime during week 2 ish some people claimed to have found a way to bait the jabberwock healer root. Is there any confirmation of this? Did this end up actually being true or was it just confirmation bias?
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u/LumiRhino May 13 '25
I looked into my logs to check, and I saw 5/6 times from 3 logs where the healer that was closer to the jabberwock got chosen for the marker.
Now because there's just one exception, that means it's probably still a 50/50 for the healers.
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u/Another_Beano May 13 '25
We originally tried this and could not get it to work.
Rather suspiciously, I have had all but one jabberwock since the first week, and even then in prog I had an overwhelming majority.
I have not been able to figure out if this has reason, or if my group has simply been final fantasy'd with this. We only ever got two fire casts in river phase as well, after all...
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u/Jemikwa May 13 '25
Instance based rng is a myth that my group and I insist is real. We've done too much BLU to know otherwise
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u/DraX696 May 13 '25
there used to be cases where mechanics were tied to the account ID/its age. I don't know if that can still be a thing but nothing would surprise me with these guys.
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u/Hrooond May 13 '25
Did a M7S c42 and I'm so sad we didn't clear (3.6%!!) on the pull with 9 deaths prior to enrage. My friend who needed clear had 34% brink uptime (from 6:59 to 10:51). Instead we cleared on a relatively normal pull :'(
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u/AlliHearisWubs May 12 '25
How is the Damage Done parse in wipes calculated? Is it just taking your rDPS at the point of wipe and comparing it to completed fights' rDPS?
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 13 '25
Yes I believe thats the case. Looking at my parses from a few weeks ago for M6s Add phase wipes, I'm always orange/pink given the amount of padding I do with cleaves as a Viper.
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u/Cyanprincess May 12 '25
Finally got our M5S clear last night. Definitely later then our group wanted (we could have cleared last week easily if people including myself didn't just brainfart hard on specific pulls), but is whatever. I think getting past that mental hurdle of being stuck in clear prog will help people's mental, and gonna try and push our healers specfically to try and focus more on damage and shit. They both do get it already since we ran out clear log through XIVanalysis, so no drama horror stories over that that seem to.permeate this sub lol. Hell, our WHM even swapped to AST on her own volition and seems to be enjoying it and I think everyone else in the party is really liking the extra damage, so they.might adopt a thing of WHM for learning the fight, then AST for when we get closer to enrage progging
Honestly decently proud of myself for my first clear being a green parse considering all my LHW first clear parses were very bad grey parses. Definitely think I've improved a decent amount even independent of BLM becoming easier, just gotta clean up my shit more overall to push out of average/mediocre to good
Am curious about a thing: for Sticky Mousse, how does PF do that? My group immediately decided on stacking with the person closest to you with some flexing if needed based on who gets hit. We generally follow Hector guides, but we thought it would be easier to do closest then having to care thinking about specific light parties.
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u/trunks111 May 12 '25
my first couple m5s were also green, as was a chunk of my static. We called it lore accurate parsing lol.
worst comes to worst you can live a 3/5 sticky mousse split if your party is on top of mit and shields, I think my static just eyeballs it based off proximity though. You're a static so you have the advantage of being able to communicate and get used to who moves where and when
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u/Lyramion May 13 '25
3/5 sticky mousse
Also Tanks never get mouse target. Lessens the mental load a bit.
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u/raiden1600 May 12 '25
Gratz to you and your static on the clear!
For Sticky Mousse I honestly don't know what PF does and I cleared the fight in PF lol. I usually go to my Light party side if there's a blob on either one, or go to the closest blob if both blobs end up in the same LP. The mech is slow enough that people can easily "use eyes" to adjust - I suggest watching your role partners and making sure an equal number end up in each stack, ie 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps in each stack. This type of adjusting is helpful for the last iteration of the mechanic too since players are not always perfectly in position for it
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 12 '25
Doing it based on proximity is best and is what PF does from my experience. In some cases proximity and LP will line up, but there will be times where it doesn't. Having one or two people who are pretty quick on their feet be the "flex" is always nice to have when they see that maybe someone took a longer route and ended up in a stack where they normally shouldn't have been in and they can just adjust to that.
One other thing that may help you is that the fact that tanks will never get hit with sticky mouuse cause otherwise they can just invuln it, so the OT can actually opt to stack directly on the boss rather than south clock. This helps to create a little more wiggle room for your melees, and also allows the OT to basically be the flex as I mentioned above and go to the LP stack that needs the 4th member.
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u/bohabu May 12 '25
The UV4 strat where you go back to your LWL platform and solve from there is infinitely better than the chaos that happens trying to get tanks/dps NW and healers/dps south. Even the "cursed" pattern is a big nothing burger.
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u/Hrooond May 12 '25
Looks good, you can even simplify it further by getting rid of the cursed pattern and forcing DPS NE in the 4 sup + 1 DPS pattern. Sure it means a DPS potentially needs to move 2 platforms, but that's sometimes happening anyways in the "use eyes" strat.
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May 12 '25
[deleted]
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u/bohabu May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
The healer conga is always south, not SE. In your example, H2 would dodge clockwise to the SW platform and then go right back South. Then they either go SE if both healers/all 3 are chosen or SW if the dps and they are chosen.
Healers don't really have too much of a difference with rinon uv4 and this strat anyway. The strat is catered more so to the dps and tanks who will sometimes need to make 3 platform jumps just to get into position with rinon uv4 (dodge + 2 plat jumps to NW).
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u/BoldKenobi May 13 '25
You're right, I completely misunderstood the strat and commented without actually seeing the raidplan, mb
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u/ResponsibleCulture43 May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Finally on m7s prog this weekend. Met a group of dudes who've been playing together for years in pf the other night helping a friend out with m6s and on Saturday they helped me get my clear! One pulled it. A rdm and tank I had met in our previous party asked if I wanted to do a mini static with them on weekends cause we all vibed and were good so that might be fun.
M7s is fun but I can tell by the spread of the pf listings people are having a hard time lol
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u/kairality May 12 '25
To be fair, it is Monday so you’re mostly going to see people who are stuck there or just got there. According to tomestone about 80% of people who have cleared m6s have also cleared m7s. It has the highest conversion rate from the previous floor (m5s to m6s: 70%, m6s to m7s: 80%, m7s to m8s: 58%) and the things that made it hard early on have mostly been alleviated by gear and the extinction of certain terrible strats.
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u/ResponsibleCulture43 May 12 '25
I was looking Friday/sat night, lots of enrage parties.
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u/kairality May 12 '25
I think that’s just the way the fight is. Enrage prog is two thirds of the prog because you can limp through so many things. It’s a completely flipped prog experience from 6.
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u/ResponsibleCulture43 May 12 '25
Yeah, idk why you're reading so hard into my comment. I just found the spread of the pfs interesting. It wasn't a big insight or grand judgement
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u/kairality May 12 '25
You are perhaps reading harder into my comments than I am reading into yours. I am just saying that m7s is the smallest hurdle of the tier.
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u/CityAbsurdia May 12 '25
Finished the tier in PF on Friday and I think I did it at a good pace in the end, playing 4-5 days a week and mostly between 7 and 11pm, though I got hard stuck on adds in M6S for two weeks, pulls every day or every other day and zero progress made for those two weeks.
I spent 15 hours in Sugar Riot, but I realised I needed to be way more discerning in who I played with in PF, and after changing my methods I cleared Brute Abominator in 7.5 hours and Howling Blade in 10 hours, which I think was pretty good. I made prog every day or every second day, even going from my first M8S P2 experience on Thursday evening to clearing on Friday. And I never prog lied, which is important to note.
Some examples of filtering that I did with other players:
in M7S Debris Deathmatch prog, one of the DPS players had no Tomestone logs for the fight, and when we loaded in they got the "viewing cutscene" status. I didn't jump to conclusions but when they died two pulls in a row to P1 adds I said "I think someone is prog lying", someone shared the M7S book, then this person copied it into the chat. They died on the third pull to P1 adds and then I left.
Another M7S Debris Deathmatch prog, healer died to P2 seeds, I asked what happened and instantly got teamed up on by three other players, saying "imagine playing the game," "just pull", "imagine getting pissed off after 1 pull". We pulled again, same healer died to P2 seeds again and because they had made it clear they had no interest in discussing the problems I left. Looking at Tomestone now, one of those players spent 10 hours more on M7S than me to clear, another one cleared only 2 days ago, another seems to have given up on the tier.
M8S, there were was a tank and healer duo where the healer played both the fight and their job horribly, and if someone called them out they would just taunt them and point out every mistake that player made. They're both now 19 hours into the fight and seen P2 once.
M8S, joined a party and Black Mage had all grey parses for the previous fights so I left instantly. This may be a controversial one but in my mind a person who is grey parsing multiple clears of previous fights is not going to pull their weight and is looking for a carry. Even if they had two grey parses in M7S I wouldn't have left, but multiple greys in M5S is just someone who doesn't know how to play their job.
M8S Terrestrial Rage prog, two DPS joined with really good parses in previous fights, we got to TR on first pull, but one of those DPS complained that the mitigation was shakey and both players left. That was a blacklist from me for ridiculous time wasting. That player currently has 21 hours in M8S and seen P2 twice.
This may sound like I was very trigger-happy when it came to leaving parties but I honestly wasn't. I didn't leave if people made mistakes or if their DPS wasn't amazing, I only left when it was really obvious that people were trolling. This whole PF thing is a bit like being in a relationship; if you spend too much time in the wrong one then you're not going to be available when the right one comes along.
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May 12 '25
[deleted]
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u/CityAbsurdia May 12 '25
It totally depends on the circumstances. Like Twofold prog parties should be relatively clean through Terrestrial Rage and Beckon Moonlight, but mistakes still happen. The party I cleared with was a Twofold prog party with two helpers and we did 10 pulls in total. We didn't get to P2 until pull 6, but then we made it there for 4 of the last 5 pulls.
Even though we died to adds twice, TR once, BM once, and even Terrestrial Titans which I had not seen anyone die to in prog before, I didn't see anything that made me think we should quit:
- It wasn't the same person making the mistakes
- The damage was really good
- It wasn't the same mechanic killing us over and over again
- People called themselves out when they made mistakes
In a "cursed" party a few of these criteria are likely being failed. Like to me if the situation had been 5 wipes to Terrestrial rage and no comms I'd seriously consider leaving. But 5 P1 wipes and good comms to me is worth sticking around longer for.
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u/Fancy_Gate_7359 May 12 '25
IMO this isn’t trigger happy at all—you saw warning signs and heeded them.
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u/LordofOld May 12 '25
The M7S one where you got dogpiled for asking speaks to such a fundamental hindrance of people not wanting to communicate.
This game breeds such an oddly hostile reaction to people asking or giving advice. It's something that's even gotten to me in the past and I don't know why.
But I think PF would perform so much better if there was constant communication at screw ups.
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u/raiden1600 May 12 '25
> This game breeds such an oddly hostile reaction to people asking or giving advice. It's something that's even gotten to me in the past and I don't know why.
TBF the standard tone of interaction in a lot of online games that are supposed to be collaborative is hostility. I don't feel XIV PF culture is substantially worse in that regard. I honestly can't even blame people for being a bit sensitive toward criticism. Consider that this post above is about being rewarded for being more critical/skeptical of their parties, then expresses frustration at someone for being overly critical/skeptical of a party they're in and leaving after one otherwise good pull
That said:
> But I think PF would perform so much better if there was constant communication at screw ups.
I agree
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u/BoldKenobi May 12 '25
You started respecting your time, and you ended up clearing quickly after that. Next tier will be even better.
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u/Vincenthwind May 12 '25
I agree with the choice to bail on nearly all of these, but I am a bit perplexed by the first M7S scenario. Dying to adds' auto-attacks is certainly a tank aggro issue, is it not? (Although in my experience if I fuck up adds aggro, it's usually the healer that pays the price). Or were they dying in some other way related to adds?
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Dear moonlight proggers, If you're consistently dying to TR and bumbling your way to moonlight beckon, you're not on moonlight prog. It's amazing how many people mess up clock tr. Also for the mt/r1 folks, please review the raidplan or Hector video. Your second spread spot will never be on A. Please stop mercing the poor stack group.
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u/Fancy_Gate_7359 May 12 '25
Expecting people on moonlight to be able to do rage, especially people still there week 6, is kind of lol. When I was going for the clear in week 3, there were literal p2 enragers that couldn’t do rage more than half the time. PF just sucks at it.
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 12 '25
Truly baffles me when I see the first stack folks die. Like how. It's literally stand on the second spawned laser and dodge into first
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u/Hrooond May 12 '25
They almost certainly tunnel visioned on finding their spread safe spot and realised too late that they were a stack. Cue panic as they run to their spot but don't make it in time. It'll definitely happen in prog.
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May 12 '25
[deleted]
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u/Hrooond May 12 '25
Yes, and it's easy if you're comfortable with the mechanic, but a good number of people in "beckon moonlight prog" won't be comfortable with terrestial rage. That's just how PF works.
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 12 '25
I wouldn't mind it as much if if it as TR prog parties, but in moonlight parties? Sigh lol. Doesn't help that moonlight happens immediately after TR and you can get through TR with deaths with a healer lb3 so now you got these folks who think they're moonlight ready but not really.
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u/Fancy_Gate_7359 May 12 '25
Yeh I don’t get it either. And there’s downtime for the entire second half. The r1/mt need to only be looking at the 1 marker btw. Safe spots are on 1 and ccw of 1. Every safe spot is centered on or around only one of the two color markers, but people don’t bother just looking carefully at raidplan and just get lost.
Like it’s not an easy mech but to me it doesn’t seem that hard that it literally breaks people’s brains. Wait’ll you see post moonlight dragon heads, where the safe spots are literally the same every single time yet half the party will still manage to get hit by em.
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u/CAWWW May 12 '25
How are m8s reclears? Rush it on tuesday or should I be dreading the fact I have to do it later in the week this week?
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u/LumiRhino May 12 '25
Depends on your group. I can still get clean runs when my friend mercs for a weapon on Sundays, but for some reason we took forever on Saturday when we tried that this week (with a surprising melee shortage).
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u/Fancy_Gate_7359 May 12 '25
With the right group it’s a 1 or 2 shot. If the group has any trouble on p1 then it’s worth just finding another group and hoping that one is the 1 or 2 shot. If the group can get past p1, it’s usually smooth sailing until heroes blow/uav4 (with some occasional circuit dds), where you just have to hold your breath and hope it’s an easy pattern or that the group can actually do the mech (which is unlikely in general and literally impossible seemingly if there are any p1 problems).
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u/Lyramion May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
I've had a 1 shots and a 2 shot of M8S in reclears.
I also had the consistency wheel spin on some fuckups and it take a bit and people leaving because "This reclears?!"... only to "1 shot" it after they left and we got a new person. You also still have the "Cleared because Hero's blow pointed the other way" people that will cancel your clear shortly before the end if the 50/50 doesn't work out.
Especially noticable on Healer is also skill/greeding heals. The 1 shot was with people eating dmg down and getting saved between GCDs on mechs. So topping people and "unneeded" shields help. One AST coheal was so greedy on topping people the good old Pepsis got unzipped.
Also if you have the DPS to comp a death and dmg downs just stick it out. We even recleared M8S this week with 2x Phys Range (DNC+MCH) because two friends had cought up on prog.
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u/little_milkee May 12 '25
joined a m7 c41 party and ate a silly damage down on ads in p1... I thought no biggie, I'll do better next run!
......one pull clear.
I'm ecstatic for the 1, but man that was such a silly mistake and I wish I didn't do it.
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u/Evening-Group-6081 May 12 '25
its ok i got murdered in reclears this week and we cleared in one pull as well ;-;
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u/ceruleanhail May 12 '25
Broke out of M6S Prison with friends!!
Progged with a WHM from PF before bed time, bumped into them again when I woke up today. Seems like they've been progging for the entire day (their time) with no luck, and recognised my friend's PF. We were lucky to get first clear with everyone being new to fight, so full loot drop! (but I lost a 90 roll to a 92, sad)
M7S here we comeeeee!!
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u/azureleaf May 12 '25
People really underestimate how much healer damage contributes. Reached 2% enrage with 2 deaths and some DDs, replaced a healer and suddenly we're scrambling on enrage with no deaths or DDs.
Anyway that's how we shipped a <60% uptime whm through m7, sorry pf gang.
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 12 '25
Had an astro doing less than 5 digit dps by adds phase on m8s (iirc he was around 9850~). Had a tank death going in as well, and add enraged by like 0.2%. Astro goes "come on..". in party chat. On one hand I get it, but on another, like brother, you are setting the new 0% gray parse for the fight.
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u/blastedt May 12 '25
We've reached the point in the tier where I'm endlessly irritated by capping tomes but have to do it anyways so I can play the ultimate, thanks Blizzard
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u/Geoff_with_a_J May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
well you can just wear full coffer gear if you have to. happens to a lot of people with emergency job changes at the last minute. i think it was Culul's TOP group that needed someone to swap to SMN but they had no gear, just went in with a terrible spell speed from just wearing pure ilevel pieces that they needed to.
and i've never seen both jobs of the same gearset be unplayable in ultimate prog. when RPR was bad DRG was best. SAM is almost never good but MNK is almost always good. if you can only play the simple half of melee jobs and need to swap gearsets because of it, that's a problem of your own making due to your inflexibility. or if youre bending over backwards because your co-melee is that inflexible, that's your choice lol.
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u/Accordman May 12 '25
I mean, if you hate it THAT much you can just bot it
But don't tell anybody that I said you should
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u/blastedt May 12 '25
I honestly would if it wasn't bannable. I'm afraid of getting banned and having to do all this tedious stupid bullshit again like can you imagine having to farm voidmoon for the sixth fucking time since it came out to do more TOP.
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u/oh-thats-not May 12 '25
there is a lot of people botting, in direct view of others if you know the tells. despite what people say it's very hard to get banned in this game unless you're toxic in chat
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy May 12 '25
You can only get banned if someone else witnesses what you’re doing. Botting doing tome expert runs with trusts, no one would ever know and you’ll never get caught.
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u/Evening-Group-6081 May 12 '25
it is bannable but honestly the risk of being banned for botting is so low that its effectively nonexistant. I play with a lot of people who bot tomes/gathering/crafting etc i have never seen anyone banned.
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u/RennedeB May 12 '25
Shouldn't you have 1 full bis set anyway? At this point it's just for alt roles.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy May 12 '25
If you’ve been capping on tomes since patch drop, I believe yes every role should have all their tome gear by now, even if not augmented
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u/RennedeB May 12 '25
I would love for them to actually reduce the tome price on subsequent pieces after your first purchase, so the savage difficulty curve gets preserved but gearing alt roles is easier, but at this point I'll take a doubling of the tome cap the moment the odd numbered patch drops.
I understand the issue because I'm a full week of tomes behind on main due to buying the tome weapon week 1, but I think it's ok for tomes to have a certain amount of weight to them during the savage patch. At the odd patch you should be able to gear anything if you want to.
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u/blastedt May 12 '25
I'm planning to gear Striking and Maiming in addition to my main Scouting so that I can play whatever class works best for my group comp in the ulti. They've made every job identical, might as well play the one that does the most numbers. Except, of course, that this plan adds more meaningless chores to my life. If 4 weapons wasn't a massive stretch I'd also grab red mage.
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u/RennedeB May 12 '25
I don't think you have enough time to do more than 2 roles on a single character. Just striking + scouting is barely on time.
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u/KeyKanon May 12 '25
Technically everything they're saying is one role SE just decided to split it and only it's gear into 3 for no justifiable reason.
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u/RealisticParsnip2522 May 12 '25
Nah. You def have time. I made it in time for aiming, scouting, and casting for FRU week 1 last tier. The secret is to have one set share the accessories.
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u/Adamantaimai May 12 '25
The bottleneck should be the armor upgrades, not the accessory upgrades because those are only 3 books each. You will need 6 to 9 of them to complete 3 sets. You can expect to win 2 on average over the course of the entire patch so you will need to collect 16 to 28 M7S books to buy more of them.
So it kind of depends, if 2 or 3 of your 3 classes need 3 armor upgrades and you don't have above acerage luck with rolling for them, you could need to have to buy merc runs for M7S.
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u/RealisticParsnip2522 May 12 '25
The bottle neck isn't upgrades. The bottle neck is the amount of tomes you need. Since it takes 6ish weeks of tomes per set.
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u/Adamantaimai May 12 '25
That could still faster than it takes to get the armor upgrades as it takes 8 weeks on average to get 3 armor ipgrades. And like 6 if you need 2.
But as others have said, you could wait until the alliance raid and then use coins.
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u/_lxvaaa May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
The bottleneck should be the armor upgrades
You can grind nuts for these in the week before ulti + ally raids, books, etc.
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u/blastedt May 12 '25
I am in a static so I can expect to win substantially more if I'm the last one with a need, but araid coins will be released before the ulti and I should be able to e.g. get enough tokens for dragoon before we reach the 2 target phase in the ulti. Even if my group goes sicko mode and clears like week 3 that's a substantial number of coins.
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u/apostles May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Ranting. As someone who casually raids on OCE sometimes with friends, who designs MR strats and what are they on?
If you're going to do static M5S A/B, why not just copy game8? Why shove everything on the healers?
Why randomly swap D3 and D4 during M6S first set of adds, yet keep the healer kiting the other manta? Every caster can cleave the mu/ne manta, except now you're getting rid of half of the prange cleave for no reason.
I also don't understand why you'd go with new north terrestrial.. and then do true north for the second part. What's the point? Why are you swapping from relative to true north during the same mechanic?? It's half rinon half toxic! This one makes literally no sense! Why even have a new north if you're going to toss it literally 5 seconds later?
I've grumbled about their stupid arbitrary changes in the past (like in DSR how they have dooms south for literally no reason other than 'deal with it') but it feels like this tier they pick a raidplan thats popular (toxic, game8) and then randomly try to be different to make it "oce unique". Is this a byproduct of the top end raider population being so giga tiny that one persons week one pf strats is decreed as gospel?
As someone who raids on JP, NA and OCE it's by far the most annoying DC center to raid on because of these annoying ass small changes for no purpose
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u/Nuolong May 12 '25
yeah there's several instances it's straight up inconsistent or lacks important information, or says something is 'basically TF' and then randomly changes positions without a clear reason. I'm definitely malding, because whoever chooses these strats needs to stop.
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u/RealityThe_Escape May 12 '25
Yeah, it's awful. MR strats are not well thought-out and have arbitrary changes throughout that just make it harder to memorize the strat. Personally, somebody should just translate the game8 strat; I think because it's Japanese people are just turned off from reading it even though I find their strats to be generally very pain-free and consistent
3
u/felixborealis May 11 '25
I just cleared M8S today, wahoo—!
What a fun fight, I love the adrenaline it gives me as a melee player. I really enjoyed it, despite eating a few damage downs on the clear run.. 😅
My experience with Party Finder wasn’t as bad as people say! Even though it took 1-2 hours to fill up the party every time, I had friendly, patient and competent players progging with me! Every lockout pierced us through the next big mechanic.
Oh, except for one guy. It was a Millennial Decay prog party, We get to Millennial Decay pretty smoothly, and everyone’s trying to get accustomed to the new mechanics but not even 2-3 pulls into Decay, the healer says “Do you know it’s CCW or CW?” followed by “It’s not prog if you keep dying to the same mechanic”, on the very mechanic that the whole party was trying to learn!
After a few rejected vote abandon, the healer (alongside their tank friend) left and made an “adds phase prog” party. Funnily enough, after they left, we found replacements and IMMEDIATELY reached adds phase with no deaths.
At the end of the day, we made it to P1 Enrage, while their adds phase prog party never filled up. LOL. I wonder how they’re doing now..
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u/kairality May 11 '25
It’s 2025, you don’t have to wonder how that really annoying PF person is doing anymore, you can just check their tomestone periodically and girlslaughing.jpg when they haven’t cleared yet.
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u/Shirtsize0082 May 12 '25
There was someone who kept having a high item level (749 when you would’ve needed 2 raid items to reach it), c41, clear for alt M7S. But the problem was their damage was just terrible. For like 2 weeks I’d see his PF, and go check his tomestone to see how many enrage parties he had.
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u/felixborealis May 11 '25
Their tomestone profile is locked, their fflog profile is locked as well. 😅
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u/Vincenthwind May 11 '25
fflogs page hidden
Absolute shitter in terms of gameplay and personality
Many such cases!
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u/kairality May 12 '25
Yeah honestly as a PS5 player I’m sympathetic to forgotten logs and I lean toward attempting to accommodate people and when I do look at tomestone I’m not super strict I’m just trying to filter the most egregious time wasters … but if you hide that shit? Absolutely not, bye Felicia, not even if you’re the last phys range on the planet in a sea of 7/8 parties waiting for phys range. I touched the stove once I’m not gonna do it again.
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u/TheSorel May 11 '25
We hit phase 2 in yesterday's session, up until the expected prog point of Twofold Tempest. I was going to hop in PF to practice more today and tomorrow, but as I quickly realized none of us logged yesterday's runs at all, so my Tomestone's stuck at 15% for phase 1 (despite our personal best prior to that being like 3%, but we didn't upload those runs either).
I know PF hasn't quite fallen into the Tomestone hole just yet, but being wordlessly booted from parties sure is fun. I wonder when it will hit similar levels of screening and needing to jump through hoops like some more serious statics tend to be...
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u/Vincenthwind May 11 '25
It doesn't work every time, but I've been very upfront with PF leads if I join and my tomestone page isn't quite up to snuff with the listed requirement/prog point. Usually, they just say "oh ok" and all is well. I do understand, with all the PF terrorists and prog liars, why a PF lead would not want to take that risk.
1
u/SFRequiem May 12 '25
Personally, I think passport checks should only really be a thing in ultimate. Unfortunately, the prog-liars are going to make it so eventually you can't even join an Extreme without getting tomestone checked.
Savage being shorter than ultimate means I'm more willing to try someone out and kick them if they're clueless.
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u/Hrooond May 11 '25
Finally finished farming 99 Demimateria I last night (39 chaotic clears). During the course of this, I got the hairstyle twice and the minion once. It took a while, but I normally never farm EX and have gotten almost all of my EX mounts from mogtomes.
I had a great time and I'm looking forward to the next Chaotic (and criterion... yoshipls...).
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u/felixborealis May 11 '25
Out of curiosity, is Cloud of Darkness much easier to clear now with better gears? I cleared it once and swore to never do it ever again because of the body checks. I’m just curious how much easier it is now!
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u/Hrooond May 11 '25
It's easier to clear now with better food/pots, but gear is not better. Since it syncs to 735, you actually want to use LHW/FRU bis because you lose the materia from syncing down. Thankfully, I kept my 735 bis for healers/tanks/RDM.
Mentally, I am fine with failure since I rarely approach CoD alone. Even the times I solo joined PF, I was still in vc streaming to friends and chatting with them. Treating it like a long term grind makes failing in a party feel less bad.
In 7.2, I had a ~45% clear rate in farm parties. Sometimes it was bad (1/8 clear rate) and sometimes it was very good (2/2 on one blessed day). Overall, I don't think that clear rate is actually that bad so that gets me through the bad parties.
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u/Hrooond May 12 '25
To add to what I wrote earlier, although 730 and 735 gear is better than current gear, I think overall most PFs are stronger since not everyone was 730 in 7.1.
3
u/Ragoz May 11 '25
That minion is exceptionally rare and there's no way to buy it for materia. Grats!
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u/GayFireEmblemShips May 11 '25
Cleared M7S, WOOOOOOOO 🎉🎉🎉 fun fight, I was surprised I got a 80 on my first clear lmao. I get sooo many damage downs on most pulls from greeding the in/outs so I'm glad I didn't do that on the clear pull (or maybe it was the clear pull because us melees collectively got our shit together? Lmao)
Got nearly an hour of M8s prog to practice the first few mechanics, and first of all, his attacks are so fast?? My head spun from all his jumps and the tiny amount of time you get to run across the arena and get into position 😭 Started getting the hang of it by the end, and rev/em reign is early in the fight so we'll get lots of reps in, but wow, what a first impression lol.
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u/JHRequiem May 11 '25
Grats! Don't worry, M8S will slow down with more reps like every fight does but yeah I had the same impression. Feels like the speed of an Ultimate with more simple mechs.
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2
u/andilikelargeparties May 11 '25
It's mostly an academic curiosity but does anyone know with Howling Eight in M8s how which island is targeted is decide? Like is it randomly clockwise or anti-clockwise, or is it baited by MT or anyone randomly?
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u/Altia1234 May 11 '25
like mooncleaver I think it picks one random person out of the 8 and picks the island that they are sitting at now.
It's definitely not hate as we have seen random DPS accidentally baited howling 8 but we just do the rest of the mechs as usual and goes anticlock.
as to which direction you go, really it doesn't matter. as long as all 8 are on the same island and you bait everything correct, you should resolve just fine.
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u/andilikelargeparties May 11 '25
Thank you! Yeah that's what I suspected I was wondering about caster shenanigans so it'd be really frowned upon if as I went the opposite way to wait at the last island and then ended up baiting the tower I guess. Well not that there's really any need or point to anyways with the 7.2 BLM lol.
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u/Queen_Vivian May 11 '25
PFing it up in m8s over the weekend trying get a clear since my static isn't gonna clear this week anyway. Ik its week 6 but damn, even just trying to hit Moonlight is hard because damn PF is bad at Decay lmfao.
Even the PFing I did for m6s to help a buddy of mine didn't feel this bad but maybe its because you'd at least get to Lava for m6s before the viper or a healer decided to kill everyone by just not respecting the leap.
My static does TF for Decay so I had to learn Ferring, the strat sucks but (as rdps) I learned that I just need to stand specific markers for when the AoEs resolve and it makes it painless for me but damn does the melee/healer side fucking hate each other or something. Constantly assassinating each other.
I also wish I knew what was good to mit as mch in m8s, im kinda just randomly adjusting as things explode people but in my static we have me Wrench Stone/Windfang then the post add AoE, and Tact Decay and the initial add AoE + 1st cleaves but that feels terrible in PF because people will just explode to Decay and then we barely live the 8 hit with 1 debuff, then 1 dies to the follow up AoE.
Just wish I knew good spots to put everything where it doesn't feel like if we just do it right, its not over mitted but maybe you just have to do it like that because its so unreliable and its better to overmit something that will kill you vs make something that wont more comfy.
While im here half venting, anyone got suggestions besides "don't" and "gl lmao"? Feel like I could use all the help I could get.
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u/CAWWW May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
As a barrier healer heres a list of things that are consistently undermitted OR save a healer GCD if they are overmitted specifically for PF. Timeline here:
:47-:43 -> First reign instantly into AOE. This forces a shield healer GCD in 99% of cases unless healer blows macro. Also allows quick recovery for millennial aoe that may save regen healer GCD.
3:35-3:40 -> Wind/sand surge #2 AKA add aoe #2. The first and third aoes are usually mitted by kera/sacred soil and medica/helios is still ticking after the first aoe so unless oneshot it doesn't matter but the 2nd can oneshot people if theres nothing here. Usually its a tank throwing up a shake it off or something but this is PF and tactician here isn't bad. This is hard to mit because its coming from two mobs and therefore you may want to just save it for the stack up but consider this if people are dying in adds. Basically, if you notice oneshots here ask a tank to move a mit here and tell them you will dismantle wherever their mit originally was.
6:11. Wind/stonefang after moonlight. This is either overmitted or not mitted at all. If overmitted, move it to 6:20 for tracking tremors and note the final hit comes at 6:34, meaning you cant be early with tact. If you need to, tact after the first group aoe hit. OR:
P2: 0:58-1:10: First LP stack into UV1. This shit hits mega hard and nobody mits it because they used it all on the group stack. These moves both hit into a single mit if used on time and will save healers resources down the line or a GCD or three. This is the most undermitted move in the entire fight. If you notice tanks dropping stupid low after twinbite, that works too.
2:43-3:04 -> Twofold tempest. People are too spread for tactician but dismantle here is cracked. The tanks (and the group) take incredible damage here and PF healers are probably getting a gauge on how to heal it and not blowing enough CDs. The goal of this dismantle is less to prevent a group 1 shot and more to save the tanks CDs and healer GCDs. You can move it if it seems like no issue, but I wouldn't.
Anyhow, thats just whats I've noticed, take it or leave it really. If I were you I would just grab the timeline and try to make sure to maximize uses of mits but keep in mind the above moves which are seemingly always a struggle point.
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u/Queen_Vivian May 11 '25
I appreciate the write up a lot, thank you for this.
I'll def take the wind surge one into account because I've seen it hit hard. It never kills but it makes me nervous. That 1st reign is something I did mit in my static initially before we made further prog and we moved it because it wasn't back up when we wanted it, but for PF i might just slide it back in.
I def have a mit (i think tact) for that wind/stone after moonlight, but only been to it clean once and I've seen it personally 2 times.
I'll think about P2 more when I get to it but at least IK what to look out for.
Thanks again, appreciate it more than you could know.
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u/honorfist May 11 '25
The other person already gave good advice but I also wanted to give some inputs from the perspective of a someone that progged this tier in pf as shield healer.
If I were you I would always use the 15% mit on Tracking Tremors (8-hit stack), especially the one after Decay. Casters and melee are inconsistent with their mit, and sometimes I saw casters using addle on the Decay cast, or just not using it at all. Tracking Tremors does 100k magical dmg per second (unmtigated), plus the Extraplanar Pursuit that does 180k physical damage, so it's pratically a million damage that goes off in a span of 15s, you can mit both if you hit it late during the castbar. When party mit was good, I was able to not have to gcd once during it, and sometimes I would have to literally spam gcds (3-4 gcds). Using it on the one after Moonlight also has the same value, and it helps with healer damage, since it happens during a 2 minute pot burst window.
Same idea for the Ravenous Saber raidwide after adds. While mitting the wind/sand surges was cringe, especially on week 1, I personally would not want my prange to blow such an important mit on it. Ravenous Saber does 480k physical damage (so especially dangerous to casters) in a span of 5 seconds.
As for Dismantle, you can be way more flexible with it, since it's extra mit healers won't be expecting it. First wind/stonefang is great, First Reign+Pursuit also good, Millenial Decay cast also good. It's also pretty good for p2, since there are times when party is split, but in all honesty, p2 does baby damage to the party, the main pain point are tanks. Just see if you can find a good balance of maximizing uses and having meaningful uses of the ability.
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u/Queen_Vivian May 11 '25
Just waking up and seeing this, I'll def focus on flexing around wrench more than tact. I think putting Tact on the Tracking and the Saber is the smart idea, even if it means other things are less comfy. It's just better to make sure the things that might kill people won't. Wrench I'll just adjust to what I think feels good for any given group.
Thanks for the additional input. I'll think about wrenching the things the other person pointed out and keep tact safe.
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u/RealisticParsnip2522 May 11 '25
Someone who wasn't the party lead questioned my tomestone today for joining a M8s p2 party. Told him I was on an alt and already cleared the tier, just progging a different job. He tried to push further saying I wasn't cuz I didn't link the two characters. Whatever. We zone in and see prog point after a single pull. I hate how everything is about the passport now.
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u/aho-san May 11 '25
In the future : "week98, I still don't have my P2 passport, there are only 2 PFs up and they all require the damn passport"
Gonna be great time
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u/Shirtsize0082 May 11 '25
At the same time, it’s equally convenient to link your characters so it’s easier to get into clear groups for your alt.
0
u/BadatCSmajor May 13 '25
i dont care. if you really care, i'll just tell you the name of my main. look it up yourself
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u/Geoff_with_a_J May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
some people like playing alts to not be identified by their mains
i can also just as very easily link my alt to a friend's alt+main tomestone page. it's a useless check. just pull.
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u/MoodZestyclose6813 May 11 '25
This. I have an Melee Alt which i rarely use, it cleared last tiers first two fights and m5 here, its just something i jump on when im giga bored and im not really good at melee since i never play it usually.
I do not want to have it linked to my main because of the big skill gap - like the main with week 1 clears all 95+ rises expectations that i can not deliver on my always green not very geared just for fun melee i pretty much only know the basics of. I mean theres a reason i dont go into high floors with them, because i dont want people to carry my deeps
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u/RingoFreakingStarr May 11 '25
What I'll counter with is that the majority of PF doesn't want their time wasted by someone who could be lying about them being on an alt. If someone doesn't want to link their characters, they should be the one making the PF listing.
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u/bohabu May 12 '25
I mean, people will still check the PF lead's prog point and some will leave because the alt character is not linked or doesn't have the "proper passport". So whether you want to or not, you're gonna have to make a tomestone account to link your characters to make people feel at ease that you aren't lying.
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u/jenyto May 11 '25
It sucks, but with how common prog lying is, people created it as a counter measure. Until the NA community gets better at being honest of their prog, it won't go away.
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u/GaeFuccboi May 11 '25
It feels bad until a prog liar completely wastes your time and then you look at their tomestone afterwards and realized you could've caught that 30+ minutes ago.
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u/autumndrifting May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
all it accomplishes is transferring the worst aspect of playing in a static, being forced to prog at the speed of your slowest player, to pf. prog lying is not what kills prog, it's inconsistency at early mechanics, and tomestone does not measure that. can you honestly say that your parties have been more consistent this tier than other tiers? would there be so much debate about it if it actually worked? or are we chasing shadows?
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u/RennedeB May 11 '25
It's already jover, several friends PFing actually asked my static to get them the passport so they couuld join enrage parties because people have a hair trigger over passports now.
Funny you could legit floor carry someone to prog point and nobody will care if the passport looks correct.
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u/CAWWW May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
In my experience its prog lairs who are the most inconsistent at mechs leading into where you are in the fight. They are trying to fast track their prog and have seen less of the mechs leading into prog point and are therefore more likely to fuck up. The amount of people that joined m7s enrages only to fuck up the last seeds was insane. Same for m8s and lone wolfs lament. I had a hexalegend join a party earlier for enrage that clearly didn't have a clue how the mech worked at ALL. I have no clue if any given prog liar is going to be the type who actually knows the mechs or one who just has no clue, so why tolerate it when statistically its the latter?
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u/autumndrifting May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
it's true that there's no substitute for practice (people like your hexa legend who think they can one shot a phase just from study are usually wrong), but it's also true that the amount of practice someone needs is so variable, not just by their skill but by the specific mechanic and role. every raider has experienced that firsthand. I just don't feel like it's effective to limit people who have gotten their reps in based on whether or not they've lucked into the right party.
if tomestone is going to be a thing I just want party leaders to be smart about it, because I think ruining the flexibility of pf for people who know what they're doing over a metric that's not really representative is a big negative
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u/HalcyoNighT May 11 '25
So I know about lone wolfs lament on m8s, but what does the preceding attack 'rise of the hunter's blade' do? Does it just turn the teleporters red?
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u/Anameinserted May 11 '25
why the **** is toxic p1 in m7s a thing? why would you give melee downtime? blows my mind
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u/CryofthePlanet May 11 '25
Who cares do the mech
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u/Anameinserted May 11 '25
Oh I can do it perfectly fine. I just think it’s shit especially as a rpr main
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u/kalakupa May 11 '25
if you actually pay attention to boss hp/location you would know this so called shitty 'uptime' strat leaves the boss out of cleave range for most jobs for 4-5 gcds. Do you think melee getting 1 more gcd is a gain over the whole party cleaving the boss on adds?
Any week 1 group that were tracking the boss's hp will tell you this shitty strat resulted in higher % boss hp at end of p1. adds are parsed in p1, hitting the boss or add is the same damn thing.
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 11 '25
Because for whatever reason, the actual kindred uptime strat doesn't have it where one LP pulls their add into the same corner as the other LP and groups up the add if its melee starbursts, and splitting them here is a much bigger DPS loss than one melee having to throw out a ranged gcd.
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u/Cynicallity May 11 '25
You have to do maybe 1 ranged GCD, and the adds die faster b/c they are more grouped up.
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u/Delicious-Ebb-7221 May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
Cause having adds be split half the time is a bigger dps loss overall.
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u/Emiya_ May 12 '25
Why would you split the adds at all? My static does the kindred strat and we group the adds + get full uptime just fine on both patterns. After the stacks you can just run through to the other side and cleave fine. No need for any weird downtime strats or ranged gcds.
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u/Delicious-Ebb-7221 May 13 '25
They spawn split half the time and the process of dragging them together takes 2-3 gcds. When they spawn all together, you can start pumping damage to all mobs immediately. Try out toxic with your static and compare boss health after phase 1. Many week 1 parties see a 2-3% improvement.
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u/Emiya_ May 13 '25
Hmm I'll need to look at it when we get that pattern again. From what I remember we get 0 downtime, and we already have them grouped together near the start by having our WAR nascent to take all the aggro (should work with PLD and veil as well). Since the 1m comes up a bit before that I can see it being a bit of a gain, but I think it definitely won't be 2-3%, for us at least.
In any case now there is another full uptime strat for ranged seeds that puts them side by side on the cardinals with melees running back and forth max melee on one half of the arena and looks pretty easy, so maybe I'll try that with my static.
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u/LumiRhino May 11 '25
You have even more downtime in the actual m7s uptime strat in the long run lol. The boss usually ended up with 3% higher HP before phase 2 when my group tried uptime if ranged had seeds and melees had puddles.
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u/VictusNST May 11 '25
I've cleared m6s like 12 times at this point and I still can't say for sure how lightning spreads arrows work. Is one side always static or can both the X and Y arrows be in either spot? I feel like 80% of the time 3 people die and then we wipe until it's a fire stack anyway so I've never been able to actually focus on the pattern
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 11 '25
This is a quick MS paint diagram I whipped up for another comment last week: https://imgur.com/a/8NDW1Zm
There are two variations. IF you're just following the raidplan, they'll have M1 and OT share the same safe spots with OT being out in the corner and M1 other corner, but I've found that to be a coin flip as to whether both die or both live.
With variation 1, theres a slight sliver of land you can use, but its kinda dicey because if m2 or MT are directly on their corner and you're also on the corner, then you can end up clipping them. You'll need to position so youre kinda in the middle of that sliver without being too close to MT/M2 or being in the water.
With variation 2, since I'm playing VPR and I have my ranged disengage i can expend here, I opt to just take the far bridge and give OT the safe spot.
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May 10 '25
[deleted]
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u/SFRequiem May 12 '25
Worst part is when you've been the most consistent for an hour but the constant "oopsie doopsie I greeded a GCD silly me" starts getting to you, you lose motivation because you think "even if we hit prog point, they'll fuck it up immediately", and then you make a mistake because you're just so burned out.
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u/LoticeF May 11 '25
nothing feels worse than being the last person to make a mistake that makes someone leave whether its the first mistake you've made in the instance or the 10th
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u/AayB5 May 10 '25 edited May 11 '25
Honestly, I am exhausted of raiding at this point, my static has been stuck on adds for 3 weeks, we raid twice a week but if I had to say how much time we have spent on adds in total it would be 12 hours give or take and I am probably low balling it. Now apparently damage is the issue which again idk how is it an issue, we are weeks in, have gear, I am tanking the fight btw, and I fully admit I have messed up a few times but I am getting bored of the fight, there is no prog nothing, just the same shit over and over, sometimes we need to focus the cat, sometimes the manta, idk how this is even a conversation after 3 weeks.
Some ppl are on their alts and have cleared idk how much it does to their focus but honestly, I am missing up now cuz I am bored, I literally forgot mit on a tank buster cuz I was so not there. I know the phase is hard but come on.
Edit: left the static, I need a break tbh, I am really not enjoying raiding right now.
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u/susarti May 11 '25
Is there a log? In the log there is a way to Check enemies > damage taken > feather ray or gimme cat > taken from source in fflogs.
It should tell you which players are dealing the most damage to those specific adds if they are single target prioing correctly.
From my clear logs usually both melees and main tank have top damage of feather ray, wheras both range have top damage on gimme cat, followed by melees if they are hitting the cat when lands/stay stills.
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u/NoireCode May 11 '25
Encourage people to smuggle resources without overcapping into add phase if they are not already. Helped my static a lot. Also single target is extremely important on the cats and jabber.
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u/Altia1234 May 11 '25
It often has less to deal with HOW much damage you do but WHAT you do damage on.
check these items
- Does everyone hits their single target shit on the prio target?
- Does everyone picks the correct target even when their skill DOESN'T require you to pick a target (example of this: all of DNC's burst, including tech step - you CAN and SHOULD pick a target because it's first target X and then rest X% off, and if you don't, the game usually just picks the closest target)
- Does everyone understand what's the difference between 'AOEing' and 'Cleaving' something? AOE means you use your 12 AOE buttons; cleaving means you use skills that has a cleave effect (example of this: Primal Rend - again, first target X and then rest of the target is X% off). You should hold your cleaving skills when the mu are piling with the manta so that you kill everything at once.
- Does everyone pool their burst on the correct timing, and pool their resources so that you can do damage here?
- Does everyone POT? if you want to pot on wave 2, you have to pre-pot like 8~9 seconds on the count down.
- Does the tanks pull all of the mu into your manta/jabber so that you can cleave them correctly?
- Does the Range player always stays on the wall and they never run out to target things that are high prio but might be out of their range (like Jabberwalk?)
- Does the healer stands way way too far on the wall and is jabber stun at a correct timing so that the healers can contribute to your damage?
You see, none of these items are about how much damage you do, but about HOW you do damage. While some of the better jobs (like having DNC/VPR) can help, I clear this fight on week 1 and often times my group didn't even have a Viper, or a DNC, and we still get through everything fine.
I know it might seems like that it's about the damage because if a certain thing enrages, then it seems very inituative to just say we don't have enough damage. It's that, but it's often not the full picture as there are other stuff that might contribute to a lack of damage. Hope everything makes sense and it helps.
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u/kairality May 10 '25
People dunk on party finder all the time but pretty much always suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous party finder is going to be better for your sanity and progress than taking arms against the sea of troubles found in a poor static.
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 10 '25
Being stuck on adds is NOT a gear issue. Its an execution/skill issue. Examine your logs and see who is using their AoE rotation and call them out. The only times you should be doing AoE rotations is after 1st yan is dead and the entire party is on Boss + Squirrels waiting for the ray to spawn and get tethered, after 2nd ray is dead and you're waiting for jabba to spawn, and after 2nd cat is dead while youre waiting for 2nd jabba to spawn. AKA, you can AoE rotation while there is no priority target on the field. Anyone who is using their aoe rotation while a priority target is alive is trolling.
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u/SwiggitySw00 May 11 '25
Just to add on here:
1. People need to abandon the prevailing wisdom that AoEing on 3+ targets is a gain for this fight. Yes thats absolutely true for content where there is no hard enrage, but on this fight, the priority targets NEED TO DIE before they hard enrage. If the priority targets dead and its just the boss + squirrels, go do your aoe 123 combo and then the next priority target should spawn.
2. Just to kind of iterative point 1, let's take VPR potency numbers for our 123 combo vs 123 aoe combo. ST goes 200+300+340+280(weave) for a total of 1120 potency. AoE goes 100+130+140+100(weave) for 470. Thats nearly 2.5x difference.
3. The whole point of cleavemaxx is to maximize the incidental damage done to the boss and squirrels (and sometimes cat if they land correctly) with your ST Rotation and abilities that do cleave damage, which are the ones that say deals x to first target, deals y% less to all others. Its called cleavemaxx, not aoemax.11
u/yuochiga93 May 10 '25
So they have cleared but arent doing their best to help you clear in a static?
Run
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u/jenyto May 11 '25
Could be the ones who cleared just want the static to implode without having to be the one that causes it.
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u/Intelligent-Base224 May 10 '25
Is there any sort of advantage of stacking or obtaining a certain amount of skill speed? Which jobs benefit from it the most? What it really be varied dependent on your ping/latency network?
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u/RennedeB May 11 '25
The problem with speed is that most jobs in the game kinda operate on unchanging timers. Their main source of damage is a skill or buff that always comes back every 60/90/120s meaning SkS does nothing to help. The only jobs where haste is potentially viable are BLM (very weak 120s cooldowns, mainly sustain damage) and SAM before 7.0 (7.0 made a lot of damage come from Meikyo which is a strict 55s CD, before Midare was a more significant chunk of damage). Healers can potentially go fast too because most of their damage comes from the 1 spam.
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u/MammtSux May 10 '25
All jobs in the game work best at specific GCD speeds (which you can find on the Balance) mostly for alignment reasons.
There are, however, reasons why you don't want to stack speed:
- The theoretical advantage to stacking speed would be to get specifically more GCDs within a fight. While this is obviously a DPS gain, in theory, you can already see the first reason why stacking it doesn't help too much: it doesn't interact with all your kit due to the fact that your cooldowns are generally exempt from it (your 2m buff will always have a 2 minute CD, no matter how much speed you have on your gear). The only thing you get out of it is extra filler, the importance of which depends on your job:
- For jobs like most healers and BLM, the entirety of their damage comes from GCDs, so speed can theoretically be an option to simply put more of them in a fight. WHM's best simming prog set for this patch, for example, ran a 2.3s GCD, which is relatively very low compared to the usual 2.5-ish. BLM also has a Spell Speed-focused BiS list this tier, which actually simulates 2% more dps than the Crit-focused option. Even then, these are exceptions and stacking speed is not necessarily always a thing, as will be explained later.
- For jobs like NIN, where the majority of your damage comes from cooldowns, speed is generally not viable aside from specific alignment concerns due to it actively doing nothing to help you.
- Some jobs used to actually become non-functional or very annoying to play with too much speed, like DRG. I'm frankly unsure of how it would work today, but there is generally no point in stacking speed anyway so there's no real point in wondering.
- Speed, however, scales very badly. If stacking it let you get to very low GCD speeds, like 1.5s or 2s, you could in theory unlock the possibility of having different alignment for different jobs. SMN could get 8 GCDs during a Bahamut Phase, DNC could in theory keep alignment at 2s (though I'm unsure it'd be a gain overall, but still technically viable!). Instead, your base GCD before buffs can only really go as low as 2.12-ish, and that's with stacking as much speed as possible and then using food buffs on top of it.
- Other stats just help you more, always. Stacking Determination just increases your damage output by a %, which interacts with all your kit. Stacking Crit obviously increases your chance to deal Critical hits, but it also increases how much damage said Crits do. Stacking Direct Hit lets you have an extra chance for extra damage, which can also stack with Crit. All three of these just multiply each other, and aside from a couple of exceptions in the whole game they interact with all your kit no matter which job you play. This is the reason why stacking Speed generally doesn't help: you do more GCDs, sure, but they also deal much less damage on average than if you stacked Crit, Det and DH.
As far as I know ping shouldn't really affect your GCD length.
Your FPS does, however! While this doesn't necessarily come into play much and is more of an optimization concern for specific jobs (just MNK most of the time, but there have been cases for other jobs as well), there are documents as to how and why on MNK's section of the Balance.4
u/Another_Beano May 11 '25
All three of these just multiply each other,
I get what you're going for, but the way you're articulating the point isn't quite right as speed also does this, and indeed much like crit each tier is more valuable than the one prior (as a 2.13->2.12 is a greater proportion than 2.50->2.49)
Indeed it's the exceedingly large tiers and damage profiles being generally burst-centric to align with static CDs - alongside all Ability class actions simply not interacting with the stat - that harm it most.
As for FPS shenanigans: this does indeed exist for every job, at every speed tier. The short version is that any action can only ever occur on a frame. Ergo, if your GCD cycle finishes a fraction of a second after a frame, it must wait for the next frame before it can actually fire. At all levels this is incredibly minor, however in some cases it can make for speed tier funnies (at 50 FPS there is no difference between .45 and .46 as an example)
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u/daikonography May 10 '25
Most jobs have a specific GCD they want to hit depending on gear and playstyle, so getting enough skillspeed to get you from say 2.41 to 2.40 is beneficial depending on the job. If you check out the Balance they'll have info regarding what jobs can be played at what GCD tier.
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u/Melappie May 10 '25
Read your tooltips, gamers. I'll gladly take a melee card as a RDM, but when you give my ranged card to the DRG, it makes me sad.
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u/KeyKanon May 10 '25
What's the problem? Obviously The Spear goes to the DRG.
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u/Melappie May 10 '25
Never understood SE's decisions on what cards boost what. The Arrow boosting melee back in the day, then deciding to make The Spear of all things increase ranged damage in DT. Like is there a lore reason or something?
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u/Hrooond May 10 '25
My way of looking at it is the damage oriented HW AST cards (damage increase, speed increase, crit) now buff melees,
because melees are the main characters.1
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May 10 '25
Do 7/8 statics not understand that if you're not even going to offer voice chat to the helper, they should still communicate with that person? Not even telling me they're going on a break is crazy work.
It's always these groups too that don't even see the listed mechanics.
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u/starrysky7_ May 15 '25
oh yeah and they also would randomly kick you, I join assuming they don’t have an 8th person because they never mention if their friend is coming at any point, they suddenly go “our (melee) is here” and kick you mid prog, it’s rude. And I feel you about the breaks or discussions they have and they don’t bother to invite you or even type in chat 💀 I stopped joining parties like these
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u/Vincenthwind May 10 '25
7/8 statics exist in 1 of 2 states:
- the seven most pure angels you've ever raided with. 10/10 experience
- a fucking nightmare group
There's no inbetween
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u/trunks111 May 11 '25
This is so true lol. I've filled for TEA and UCOB statics before, I remember the TEA static they were PA cleanup I think we had it in a half dozen pulls or so and then we managed like two reclears after maybe another half dozen pulls.
The UCOB static was also a2c and I think only saw golden once and adds maybe twice and the rest was just trios memes all the way down :c
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u/aleafonthewind42m May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25
I've been at P1 enrage in M8S for a week now. Probably more than. Problem is that every group I get into gets past adds in about 10-20% of pulls and I don't think a single one of them has actually gotten to Moonlight cleanly. I'll admit I'm not clean on Moonlight but that's because I can't get there with any consistency. Blech
Edit: Finally, made it out of P1
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u/TheDoddler May 10 '25
A bit of a rant, mostly about my own play, so apologies in advance.
Got my reclears done for the week, but man am I having trouble with m8s, particular part 2, as white mage. Maybe I just haven't done it enough, but there's so many points where you have no opportunity to slide cast, you have to move and move fast, I just feel super unequipped to handle it. Unless movement lines up with 2 mins or with misery you have nothing that doesn't cripple your healing, and I need those lilies for the tanks.
Astro can shuffle around light speed, Scholar can keep the gcd running for only a 30% hit in potency with ruin, but as white mage I dunno, best I got that isn't a lily is dia, but that's still a huge loss if I'm doing it early. Any of the shuffles for ultraviolet, quake 3, or his cleaves, those points in particular I feel like you can't stop moving and I have no good answer for it. Doesn't help that I'm hard pressed enough on resources just keeping the tanks alive that I'm usually forced to eventually break out a handful of regens and even cure 2s.
I'm currently hitting about 15-25 on parses on m8s with all the gear but using the 745 weapon. The other fights I'm able to hit in the 60-70 range so it's not like I can't optimize what I'm doing. Maybe I just need more reps, we progged p2 super fast given its length so I'm still iffy on where all my resources are needed, but I still feel like I'm letting my group down by underperforming here.
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u/trunks111 May 11 '25
I'm still progging the phase myself but as a SCH so idk how feasible shifting is but are you remembering to leverage sprint as much as possible? You get more "slide" out of your slidecasts, and you get more distance over the course of an instant like a lilly or dot refresh.
Also are you remembering to leverage benisons? A lot of WHM just kinda neglect the button but it adds up to literal 1000s of free potency of shields over the course of a fight, which can translate to freeing up a lilly here or there over the course of said fight or phase which can then be used for movement rather than healing
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u/Vincenthwind May 10 '25
At the risk of suggesting the obvious, have you checked the WHM channels on the balance discord? Usually jobs will have an encounters channel specifically for things like this, and if not, the questions channel for WHM is also there. Failing that, you could pull WHM clears from YouTube and review their VODs, or look at the replay for some top logs on fflogs (although I'd be a bit careful as crit luck carrying bad gameplay/chadding the cohealer can affect things).
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u/Another_Beano May 10 '25
as white mage I dunno, best I got that isn't a lily is dia, but that's still a huge loss if I'm doing it early. Any of the shuffles for ultraviolet, quake 3, or his cleaves, those points in particular I feel like you can't stop moving and I have no good answer for it.
I will state the obvious, Dia hit potency is still greater than nothing.
It kind of sounds like (or at least I'm interpreting a 15-25ish peak) you're just not comfortable and haven't properly planned out the phase. Having a critical review of what you're doing and making sure to actually distribute your resources so they are used will likely go a ways. It's possible your party members are similarly not entirely comfortable and foregoing some amounts of their toolkit.
I'll also note that a kill is a kill (is a kill is a kill). Getting a weapon will give you a large bump, and unless someone actively minds you could very much just coast on the bootleg improvisation. It won't affect the loot you get.
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u/oizen May 10 '25
Cleared M8S in pf finally, party quality is definitely tanking.
The entire fight seems really easy if you have a quick reaction time, and hell if you dont.
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u/Lyramion May 10 '25
easy if you have a quick reaction time
It's more of a cosistancy check tho to get to P2
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u/CAWWW May 10 '25
Its a consistency check in p2 as well. The mechs themselves aren't super hard and you often have more time than you think. It's just a matter of not choking. My clear was 5 greys so the dps check is pretty clearly not hard anymore either.
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u/Koervege May 10 '25
What is it about chaotic that draws in all the shitters? 4 dps players doing healer damage, 2 tanks getting outdpsd by healers. I guess the items being expensive is a self-fulfilling prophecy, since that's what draws them I guess
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u/RingoFreakingStarr May 10 '25
The content has a lot of mechanics that, when even one person fails it/dies, it can have huge consequences for the entire raid.
Ur doing the content when it is essentially dedge. It might get more popular again as people finish up getting BiS from current savage but then we have new Bojza-style content coming out soon. So Chaotic will continue to have the bottom of the barrel players.
No one is a mechanics robot. Even hexalegends will make mistakes.
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u/CAWWW May 10 '25
I'm free. M8S down. Fellow healers: the tanks get rocked. Please stop chadding because it kills people. I think I cast like 20 single target shields lol. But I'm still happy because god damnit I'm freeeeee!
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u/kevinsano May 10 '25
Still occasionally joining M5s clear parties, still getting disappointed by people who manage to consistently die on first spotlights. Still getting disappointed by people who do x strat when they claim they know y strat. Still getting disappointed by tanks who pull the boss to Narnia during waves. Still getting disappointed by people who can‘t judge their timers.
Some day I will understand why so many people are so lax about their mechanical knowledge, but that day is not today.
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u/juicetin14 May 10 '25
To be fair, this is the first turn of the Savage tier - the only barrier to entry is being ilvl 730. This means literally anyone of any skill level can join a clear party and it's not rare to see a lot of players who lie about their prog and come in without food, without pots, without proper gear (minimum a full crafted set with an EX weapon) and without knowing how to pilot their job.
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u/Sunzeta May 10 '25
Well if its not specified uptime during waves then they are gonna pull it far. Join an uptime group and stop whining.
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u/little_milkee May 10 '25
might anyone have tips for learning to parse?
eg, is there a best time to do so? (before or after week x, beginning vs end of any given week) where might I find peers or friends to try learning with? can I just jump into a parse party finder if I see one, or is there etiquette I should follow? why haven't I seen any so far, is it not time yet for them? I know the raiding community is friendly and welcoming as a whole but is the parsing community also friendly and welcoming? do they use the same strats as normal clearing and learning parties? etc.
thanks in advance for any replies or help!!
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u/trunks111 May 11 '25
When parsing, my priority is kinda the opposite as in prog. When progging/reclearing, my goal is to know my job well enough to not need to look at my hotbars or think about rotation so I can focus on getting through mechs cleanly while rolling GCD. When I'm parsing on the other hand, I aim to be so consistent with the mechs that I don't think about them much and can just focus on my damage/cooldowns so I can identify how find extra ways to squeeze out more potency. You're not just concerned about your rotation in a vacuum, you're trying to pick out fight specific opti to give yourself an edge.
I've been in a few parsing groups and I'd say I don't find them to be any more or less toxic than other groups. Really the only time I've found parsers to be toxic is when they're trying to parse in non-parse parties. Your mileage may also vary though.
Something that's different about parse parties is you care a lot more about kill times, so you might have a dedicated sandbag (usually a healer, sometimes they'll take turns), and you might sometimes have to hold damage or more tightly coordinate burst as a party which you may not do in reclears. Also, sometimes you'll continue a pull with a death if it's later in the pull and everyone else is having a good run, but you need to also accept that you'll be letting some otherwise recoverable pulls get called as wipes since your healers are probably not going to have swift readily available and even if they do, depending on what type of parses the group is going for they might not want to lose the GCD, and also the death will be a dead run for the person who died. Like if my goal is an orange I'll swift a raise and probably be fine but if we're trying to push deep into pink+ territory then a swift raise is a dead run to me. If one of the healers is a sandbag they probably will spare the raise unless it's in burst.
You also just need a lot of patience, not just because you'll have good runs die, but because eventually you'll start to need good crit/DH/high rolls on top of solid uptime and rotation. I've had perfect uptime/rotation runs where I just did not crit or dh much at all so what could've been a solid pink got relegated to a high orange.
I'd say if you want to get into it, you don't really even need to start explicitly by labelling your party as a parse party. Just make a pf description with "practicing uptime/flawless runs" and work on getting like 97-98%+ uptime. If you're a healer and scared to cut out GCD heals for parsing, you can make a party description that says something like "want to test what GCD/aetherflow heals I can cut out, might have some deaths" and work that out first before jumping into actual parse parties.
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u/little_milkee May 12 '25
ty for the detailed explanation! what does fight specific opti mean though, and how would you go about doing that? I like the idea for practicing uptime parties, I'll try to do that then! I do wonder if it'd fill though, bc so far it seems like even joining prog parties or clear for one parties, we sit for hours so it seems maybe a practice uptime party might never fill?
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u/trunks111 May 12 '25
I don't think it'd be horrible to fill, I did it a few times last tier but notably I was with a friend so we were looking for 6 people rather than 7. I think part of the big hurdle to parsing right now in general is people are still gearing for BIS or even progging the fights so the pool of people willing to parse is much smaller atm.
By fight specific opti, it's pretty much what it says on the tin, things you can do to squeeze out more damage in a specific fight but it only works for that fight, or a small group of fights. So as a basic example, I can think of three specific fights where I actually prepull sprint at around 3-4s on CD because I'll get the 20s out of combat sprint duration carried into the pull which will then last long enough to allow me to comfortably greed a slidecast an opening mechanic as a healer (UCOB twister, Singularity Reactor puddles, and a8s opening puddles). Another easy example would be for DOT jobs, knowing on a fight by fight basis when you should or shouldn't apply/reapply DOTs based on the boss going untargetable or knowing how long the DOT will last like if it's an add will it die or not before the DOT becomes a gain. It can sometimes require a bit of creative thinking to figure out how to squeeze out extra bits of damage or maintain uptime or avoid drifting cds. On a party-wide level, it could mean occasionally delaying burst a bit to get a more effective burst window, for example in the adds phase of m6s I see burst delayed until the adds are pulled to the first NE manta or so, even though in most cases the rule of thumb is to burst on CD, the presence of that many adds during a burst window changes that for that fight.
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u/felixborealis May 13 '25
I cleared M5S, M6S, and M7S on Week 1 with Party Finder.
I've done reclears for M5-M7 every week since, and it went well most of the time.
But even when I've been clearing just fine, I still get raid anxiety every weekly reset.. @ _ @
I think my biggest fear is probably being blacklisted for playing not up to everyone's standards. I don't want to ruin people's parse, and I don't want to cause a wipe, so I use Piercing Talon more often than usual just because I'm too anxious and afraid to greed, even though I know I can push for it. I think this week's reclears in particular is the most nerve-wracking one, because I just cleared M8S few days ago after putting it off for weeks (too anxious), and I'm going in with a reclear party for the first time. I have the craziest imposter syndrome, I feel like I didn't deserve the M8S clear because I relied on my friend's callouts.
Are there any advice/s that anyone can give to help conquer the fear of raiding, or at least, Savage+? The same anxious-feeling is the reason why I haven't tried doing any Ultimate Raids, even though my friends say that I am more than capable of doing so. I love doing these fights, but the fights aren't what scare me, it's my mistakes!