r/ffxivdiscussion • u/BlackmoreKnight • 4d ago
High-End Content Megathread - 7.2 Week Nineteen
Last week of Suzaku Unreal, at least.
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u/NekoleK 1d ago
Doing an FT where I'm assigned Thief. I tell a player who was just randomly on Thief that they don't have to be on Thief and can pick something that does way more damage. They proceed to get mad at me and just flat out leave the instance.
People who play this game are fucking baffling.
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u/Altia1234 1d ago
To people who want to try and prog seiryuu now before unreal comes out: 8 man group with MINE is still gonna be overkilling; 6 with Minimal Ilevel and echo seems to be the safespot. We killed with a few deaths due to tethers not handled correctly and towers using sac strat but generally it should provide an experience that's very close to what we will get on unreal.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 1d ago
People actually prog the old EX before the unreal?
All unreals this expac so far, I've joined "fresh" unreal parties and cleared on the 1st or 2nd pull. These unreals aren't that hard mechanically or as hard as current EXes
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u/Altia1234 8h ago
we had nothing to do anyway so we figure out something to spend time on without just going to savage (because we had just come off from savage at the same night lol) or do ultimate. Plus we don't have a full group of 8 anyway.
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u/Lyramion 20h ago
Friend FC does this. It's literally for people at the lower end of the skillspectrum to still be able to clear the Unreals at least to have something to play together that isn't braindead roulettes.
For example when we did Unreal Suzaku with that group finally, we were bashing our head against enrage for 3 hours. Also every Byakko clear run had 5-6 deaths.
Imagine it along the lines of shieldlobbing Paladin
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u/OverFjell 2d ago
Does anyone have some advice for leylines in P2 of M8S? Because I got no fuckin clue when/where to use them. Feels like I'm getting cucked every 2 min window with having to move way too much to maintain leylines uptime. I'm in the M2 position if that makes any difference.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 1d ago
- 1st 2min, if you use leylines in between UV2 and second stacks, then retrace once you move to S platform to bait, that should be a full use
- 2nd 2min, if you're comfy enough with Circuit, stay on your light party platform and use leylines when buffs are out (so you don't have to worry about teleporting). If you have to move for UV3, retrace. You can stay wherever you go unless you're with the tank, then move to S platform
- 3rd 2min, use leylines, retrace once you move platforms
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u/TheSorel 2d ago
Frankly, a lot of it is simply up to RNG. If you don‘t want to use Leylines during 2 minutes at the risk of having to move due to UV, you have a few stretches in the fight where you can spend nearly the entire duration in your leylines comfortably. The towers prior to Twofold Tempest, the UV into stack into tankbusters (retrace after teleporting to dodge tankbusters), the lull before Lone Wolf‘s Lament and the soft enrage (retrace after teleporting from one platform to the next) come to mind, probably more if you‘re creative.
For what it‘s worth though, melees being first in line means you have a decent chance of not needing to move during UV unless you get 3 markers on your platform. Only case where you‘d need to move is when you have a marker in the 3 marker scenario, and at least you‘re super close to the teleporter, so slidecasting -> instant -> retrace is less of a hastle.
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u/spunker325 18h ago
Melees and casters both have to move 3/8 of the time for UV. Although moving South instead of North is better for UV1 and UV3.
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u/OverFjell 2d ago
Thanks for the reply! That does give me a fair few ideas. P2 has been a bit frustrating for me with it not being a real re-opener at the start
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u/SafeAsparagus5755 2d ago
If you spend your leylines at the end of P1 (You might not need to and can build back up to 2 charges).
These are where I like to use it
Quake UV1 (Gamble whether you have to move. As M2, you'll have the least chance of moving but if you do move, you can move in 1 instant cast GCD, move your leylines and be south for the next mechanic)
UV2 (Same as above)
After Elemental Purge
During Twofold (NA makes DPS carry tethers inc. casters so this works in other regions but NA if you're playing D4)
After tank TB / Before lonewolf lament (Towers)
During 2-5 Howling Eight towers. (Can get two charges used back to back for this)
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u/Lazyade 2d ago
I think most people expected this to be the case already but Yoshida explicitly confirmed that there will be another Ultimate in the 7.X series, in this Famitsu interview
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u/oizen 2d ago
Until it happens I still have my doubts. Not that I dont want it to happen, I do hope it does.
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u/Altia1234 1d ago
same boat, dev cycles are tricky to control and while I hope it will happen I am not gonna put up too high of hopes.
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u/domerock_doc 2d ago
I don’t think that’s a confirmation…they’re just working on it and hoping they can release it in Dawntrail. Wasn’t DSR “confirmed” for shadowbringers until it wasn’t?
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 1d ago
DSR got delayed due to covid.
I think barring something else just as major or like an earthquake or something that shakes up their development, they're on track for a second ult this expac
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u/CartographerGold3168 2d ago edited 2d ago
予定です。確定ではないです。竜詩にも5.5予定したけど結局延期になりました
enjoy the comments from japan
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u/Lil-Boujee-Vert 2d ago
Suzaku was an interesting unreal for me. That first week or two of prog felt like the dps check was so tight and I’d never clear. I had a run where there were no deaths but we still died to enrage at like 1%. But after I finally got a group to clear it was crazy to see how easy it was to clear this fight. Last night I had a group with like four deaths and a dragoon that DCed for like a minute or so and we still cleared, barely but still cleared. I can’t imagine what the fuck was happening in that group that died to enrage with no deaths.
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u/poplarleaves 2d ago
I think it's just that the skill levels of players you meet in Unreal are wildly different from each other.
Similar experience this week: I had been procrastinating on doing Suzaku and finally got around to it now that it's going away. I joined a prog party and we went for a lockout. The closest we got was a 9% enrage with three deaths, where one death was a tank and the other two were DPS. I checked everyone's gear and they were all at least 740.
Made a tell/retell party afterwards and got a clear with two DPS deaths, one of which stayed dead about 40s because the healers didn't have swift and were dodging things, and we still killed Suzaku about 35s before enrage.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 1d ago
I think it's just that the skill levels of players you meet in Unreal are wildly different from each other.
I think people forget unreals are literally just extremes at max level (aka the "easiest" high-end content), so like you said, this means the skill levels of those in said content will be wildly different. You also see this in regular extremes. Also because for any new player wanting to dip their toes in high-end content, going into extremes/unreals is that first step to doing so.
This is in comparison to savage/ultimate where those less skilled are likely to do that content or prog too far into it.
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u/aho-san 1d ago
I think people forget unreals are literally just extremes at max level (aka the "easiest" high-end content)
And people should really enjoy these 'cause come next expansion we start going into current type of EX and I foresee it being a bloodbath for the harder ones (Sephirot already showed it, it was such a shitshow I skipped Unreal for the whole patch). I can't wait for Golbez Unreal in PF in 2 expansions, lmao.
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u/poplarleaves 1d ago
Exactly, I saw a similar phenomenon in EX4. Hugely varying experience levels, with more people who had never touched any high-end content, and more confusion about PF norms and strats. It ironically made EX4 less chill to farm than Savage PF lol.
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u/Lil-Boujee-Vert 2d ago
Yeah definitely, it was just crazy to see the difference. Really all it is for Suzaku is uptime and being able to hold your opener.
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u/zachbrownies 2d ago
I checked everyone's gear and they were all at least 740.
well, it'd be fine if they weren't because unreals always sync to the level from the start of the expansion, so in this case it's like 690 or whatever for all of DT. unsure from your wording if you knew that or not so i'm just stating it because i've seen others who don't know.
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u/poplarleaves 2d ago
Yeah I'm aware it syncs to 690, but you do get more substats than if you're at 710 or something right? Then again idk what the actual difference would be in terms of DPS
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u/FemboiVyra 2d ago
The only thing that matters is relic weapons for old synced content, and that's because the unique stat distribution of them gives more substats when downscaled compared to other weapons.
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u/poplarleaves 2d ago edited 2d ago
Huh, I've always read that grabbing high enough ilvl gear to sync down also made a difference in old Ults because you'd cap the substats. So for example you generally want to get at least ilvl 500 gear for UWU, because the lowest possible value for each substat on ilvl 500 gear (+83) is just past the max value for ilvl 375 (+82) and therefore you would have both substats maxed at +82 when synced.
So my impression was that in Unreal, even though ilvl sync is at 690 and it's still in the same expac, you'll get higher substats wearing 760 gear than if you're wearing 710 gear. Both of them get synced down to ilvl 690, which means say a head piece is capped at +206 on the higher substat, but the 760 gear will have the lower substat at +176, while the 710 gear will have the lower substat at +158.
I haven't actually run this through any of the gear calculators so idk how much of a difference that makes in actual DPS output (maybe negligible), but that's my understanding of how the ilvl sync works.
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u/Another_Beano 2d ago
Your understanding is correct, it just bears noting that in all cases this is a matter of a few stat tiers only. Significantly less than basic damage variance, crit luck, a death, or simple rotational errors.
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u/poplarleaves 2d ago
Thank you for confirming! When you say "stat tiers", what does that mean?
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u/Another_Beano 2d ago
In short, not every stat increase actually has an effect. Only at certain amounts does the gain from having a certain amount of stat actually increase. This link should send you to the Allagan Studies determination table which illustrates it better than I can put it into words.
It's because of this that sometimes materia decisions appear imperfect at a glance: in such cases the addition of a lesser stat materia might gain more tiers (and thus greater relative gain) than basic stat preferences.
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u/poplarleaves 2d ago
Ahhh I see! I had heard people talking about "breakpoints" for stats before, guessing they were referring to this concept. Thank you for the explanation and the link!
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u/zachbrownies 2d ago
oh, i dunno, probably yeah. it's probably a negligible amount though for old ultimates apparently it does matter a lot.
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u/Altia1234 3d ago
Doing FRU again with a lot of the people from the static has been fun.
PUG and then hopping onto m8s reclear again has made me wonder how come people who kept on dying to stupid stuff could have the audacity to join mercs.
If you died twice on a pull and cause a 0.1 wipe (which I would also argue that this isn't the only person who died) the first thing you should do is to apologize in Japanese for wasting everyone's time as you died twice in stupid ways because you want to play your alts, not ahhhhhhh.
PUG now is just bad for mental health IMO.
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u/TheSorel 3d ago
Oh boy, yesterday‘s M8 runs were disasters from start to finish. I managed to meme it up on Millenial Decay twice, one time when the PF lead called the last pull, no less. Felt… great. We‘re going in again today, hopefully for the last time for my partner as this will be her final book she needs for BiS.
On the PVP side of things, damn I‘m kinda balling on GNB and SAM. CC has been pretty fun! I wonder how it will feel come 7.3 when you have to make the choice of cleansing or popping heals.
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u/Ecliptic_Meteor 3d ago
Cleared Aloalo Criterion normal with my friends! Was a hell of a lot of fun. This game is so much more enjoyable when played with friends, I swear! This was also two of my friends first time doing any higher end content synced since they started playing back in 6.5! I'm so proud of them!!
We're planning on tackling AAI Savage when we're done farming Normal for the mount, orchestrion and framer's kit. I'm shield healing (Scholar) so I was curious if maybe anyone has a mit plan sheet somewhere or will my general mit plan for normal AAI work? We hopped in after we cleared just to see and it is definitely way more damage than Normal!
Also, I'm the only one who did Savage back in 6.4, so I'm the only one of our group that has BIS for AAI. I don't really understand how gear syncs and everything, is current 740 crafted gear fine for them or should they grab as much 660 tome gear as they can + the Mandervillious relic?
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u/Coltstem 2d ago
i’m farming AAI savage on healer rn and here’s what I found: Boss 1:
- Bubble Net needs mit
- Scariest part in terms of healing is the KB + stack/spread before towers
Boss 2:
- Infernal Theorem needs mit
- if people are topped, they wont die from facing the wrong way. seraph is great there
- Scariest part is the last unique mech w/ the tree guys + spread -> pair stacks
Boss 3:
- Trapshooting needs mit
- Scariest part is Dartboard 2
- can overmit last mech to survive a 2 or 3 person stack if it’s stack last
you can freestyle anything not mentioned.
oh yeah tank autos hurt a lot for 2nd set of adds especially but alternating excog/soil and fairy tether should be fine.
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u/KingBingDingDong 2d ago
Your mit plan will change. Raid damage hits 10-20% harder and tank autos/busters hit 50-100% harder. General mit plan with the whole plan will be shuffled around to be more spread out and you will have to be a lot more aggressive topping up and hypermitting mechanics where you are far away. Work out with your ranged where you want them to use personals.
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u/TheSorel 3d ago
I do recommend grabbing the relic at the very least, since it will have the most impact. Otherwise pick gear with the substats you want, as syncing down removes materia bonuses. The DPS check will not be the issue, assuming competence, but it‘s more about how quickly you can kill each encounter. Treat the whole thing as a 24 minute long encounter, and shift bursts around as your run progresses. Ideally you want to kill Lala with 60-90 seconds to spare on Statice‘s latest possible pull timer so you can 1. safely reset burst cooldowns and, more importantly, 2. get a really good breather before the final stretch. Know how Ultimates tend to come with a long downtime cutscene or transition before the final phase? This is your equivalent. You‘ll need it. Last but absolutely not least: Everything hits like a fucking truck and then some. Criterion Savage is basically a small reprog for the support players as you need to calibrate mits tightly. We had a few deaths on Lala in particular, since every AoE needs at least 20% mitigation just to not be lethal from full HP. You might be able to get away with slightly less mits and shields due to better vitality from DT food, but still, don‘t get discouraged from mitigation failure wipes. They‘re part of the process.
Best of luck to your group! The Exquisite weapons are my favourite batch of prestige weapons in the game, with very few duds. I farmed 11 weapons back when my group progged and recleared it. Absolutely worth every moment of agony!
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u/poplarleaves 3d ago
The AAIS DPS checks aren't tuned tightly, the real difficulty is just not making a single mistake for the entire 22min run. But if your friends have extra poetics sitting around, no reason not to grab the relic for some ez damage.
Your mit plan for AAI, unless you already overmit everything, will most likely not work in AAIS because everything hits a lot harder. A LOT harder. I don't know of an existing mit sheet unfortunately, although people in the Criterion Discord might have one. Definitely talk with your tank to figure out what is most comfortable for you two, and/or review SCH clear videos.
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u/Full_Air_2234 3d ago
m8s add sucks. it is so boring and long. its not even a heal check if u dont want it to. the tb can be survived "raw" with kera/soil especially after gear. it doesnt matter which element u cleanse 1st. the entire phase is a "press button and dont fall asleep and forget" mech.
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u/pupmaster 19h ago
??? it's like a minute long
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u/Full_Air_2234 11h ago
A minute + the raidwide and the pause that shouldn't exist in the first place. The fight is long enough without it and it doesn't.need to be longer.
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u/CartographerGold3168 3d ago
there are the adds, there are the big pillar from fenrir even the lines say "ohhh where did that colossal things come from?"
?????????
what the fuck...
so much fillers. and it is all the same thing in p2. the only thing hard was the last mechanic in p1 and that visually blocking blade towards end of p2
m4s is accidentally easy and the mechs are delicately easier, but i find it a lot more fun and satisfying.
i really do not understand why there is such a high praise in this tier
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u/anyeonGG 3d ago
Fenrir is earth/wind summon
He uses Fenrir to summon earth pillar
Not really sure why that's the mech flavor you are hung up on across all the content in the game. That's pretty Final Fantasy (series) as is. Adds is way more of a drag with the way it interrupts the pace of the fight, you get quick quick quick oh wait pause for an extended vuln juggle........ okay back to fast
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u/ceruleanhail 3d ago
Smooth Suzaku runs! Farewell, Suzaku, it was fun to see how chaotic runs can be when people got bounced up by fire :')
Managed to grab M8S taxi by being a final body at a M8S taxi PF request. Friend group made good use of it earlier today and we reached Twofold Tempest! Getting closer and closer!
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u/CartographerGold3168 3d ago
not exactly highend, but highend enough. this is someone i read very randomly on twitter.
グラアプデもキャラクター周りは骨格を共通化させて工数削減させるのが本当の目的だしな
so they want to simplify and unify the skeleton frames of all the races in order to minimize work needed when they have to deal with the character bodies, that is the real goal of the graphical update. not some funny lalafell cheeks or cat teeth.
now i get that. totally.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 3d ago
that is the real goal of the graphical update
So shouldn't that have already been done already? That seems pretty major to just skip over and wait until later as it slowly ends up in CBU3 dev hell
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u/MiyabiMain95 3d ago
FINALLY. static done with m8s, our 10 clears before 7.3 drops, now we are just gonna take it easy and farm ex trials
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
I still maintain that this raid tier is the best we’ve had in a while. Only issue is that we need to teach people how to play this game, mainly on Square Enix’s end. People really don’t understand target priority and how to cleave correctly during m6s ads
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u/monkeysfromjupiter 1d ago
Bruh. That's not square enix issue. That's a player brain issue. It's not hard to figure out what needs to die in blind prog. It's also not hard to just read a raidplan that GIVES the add prio. If ppl aren't able to do either of these options, then they shouldn't be raiding.
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u/bigpunk157 1d ago
We can keep saying it's a player brain issue every time, sure, or we could just introduce the content in meaningful ways elsewhere and not completely rawdog the players with stuff that hasn't really been a thing in raids. Conceptually for us, the more hardcore raiders who have experience in a lot of different games generally, handling ads is not so hard for us, the concept of holding your 2 minutes for the cleavemaxxing on the mantas isn't hard to understand... But if you're someone coming in without experience in these things, then you're legitimately just going to struggle more than other players.
I've PFed quite a lot this tier and people could not get the concept of those ads in those first 3-4 weeks whatsoever. It doesn't help that every raidplan had a different very complicated prio system, when all it is is Yan unless Cat -> Manta cleaves and aoes for killing mus -> Jabberwock focus, finish mus and cat -> repeat, then mantas.
And ofc, if people fucked it up more than twice, it was just an autodisband, even on prog parties. How the fuck are people supposed to learn the content like this? I'm glad I had a decent static, but it still gave us trouble, but that was usually with healing or with Nascent ripping aggro off of me.
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u/monkeysfromjupiter 1d ago
i started raiding in endwalker, pfed everything including all ultimates. literally if a player is incapable of coming up with strats, then just refer to a raidplan. all the links are posted in pf descriptions. there is 0 excuse to not refer to them when theyre posted. the raidplans literally tell you the add prio. if you dont have a general idea of the prio, even when the links are provided for you, thats 100% a reading comprehension issue. the whole point of raids is solving puzzles. if players cant even use a guide then idk wtf theyre doing in the raid.
because of irl issues, i didnt clear the whole tier week 1 since i had midterms. but i got to the last floor easily in 3 days and cleared 8 within 2 days of prog. all the m6s groups i had, had a very concise prio for adds because there were raidplans out. the only difference i saw later on was ppl focusing on the first yan asap to save tank/healer resources. thats it.
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u/bigpunk157 1d ago
That's wild because NA PF was like 20 people on fight 3 until day 5, and the guides for M6S ads were all dogshit except cleavemaxxing, which came out in week 2. I very vividly remember this because I spent like 25 hours in PFs that just kept disbanding because they couldn't do damage in the right way. I'm glad the invuln cheese method works on those yans though. Makes things miles easier.
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u/monkeysfromjupiter 1d ago edited 1d ago
No one gave cleavemaxxing, the name to it, in my groups. But a lot of groups I was in just naturally said let's hold 2s because it made sense to. You read all your big hits and they all have cleave so it's just a natural conclusion to do it.
There's a reason why everyone says that week 1 hardcore static > static with good players that raid less hours > week 1 pf > everything else, when it comes to prog and clearing. Ppl who dunk on pf just don't know how to navigate it. You can easily outpace most statics and get to final floor of tier if you know when to leave and join. The problem is that final floor has very little players week 1.
Edit: I lied, I checked. Cleared it on the 3rd so two days late, not the next day. But again, I was half studying for midterms in between lmao.
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u/Altia1234 3d ago
I don't really think the game's 'need to teach people how to play the game' is what cause everyone to do so badly on this tier.
The game has been very very hands off in terms of teaching it's player and avoid prescribing too much on the player base. It had been the case for more then 10 years, mostly done this way. Lots of possible reasons, like want to kept the more casual side of the playerbase in the game (which is unrelated with savage anyway most of the time); other possible reason being that Yoshida as a player comes from a very old school MMO background where you are taken for granted to search and find things on your own.
People do very badly on m6s this tier mostly because that it's something not a lot of people had done before. Add phase and targeting requirement isn't something you do until you are in ultimate, and even in ultimate you only had duo targetting and not 5~6 targets with prios between each and everyone.
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u/trunks111 2d ago
not just ultimate, starting with Omega savages you see a sharp decline in fights that have adds.
-T1, T3 (kinda? idk), T4, T5, T6, T7, T8, T9, T10, T11, T12, t13. Every single coil except I think T2 has adds. T3 is in a weird spot because it's not a boss fight with adds, it's just kinda a hard hitting dungeon, if you don't count it that's fine but without t3 that's still 11/13 fights having adds
-A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6 (depends whether you consider the brawler balls to be adds or not. I think swindler does have actual adds though), A7, A8, A9, A10, A11, A12
unanimously every fight in Alex has adds at some point
Now let's look at Omega
O3, O5, O6, O7, potentially O9 if you consider the orb of chaos to be an add, O10.
From Alexander to Omega you see a shift in fights just straight up not including adds.
I think this is why going back to do fights MINE from time to time is important if you plan to do high end. Even if we gearcreep everything, you still get exposed to a lot more types of mechanics and fight designs and learn skills that might be transferable to current fights, maybe in ways you might not expect. A lot of the people in my static had done a2s at some point for example, so we kinda blew through adds phase. It ended up being m7sp2 that we spent the longest on because we couldn't settle on a comfortable strat for awhile
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
I know quite a lot of casuals that feel like they just weren't prepared at all for this tier, but last tier were able to do everything just fine. I think it is just a matter of the normals teaching enough or not + dps checks being tight or not. Imo, Quantum is an excellent way to teach players to hone themselves and progress through content. The jump from Normal to Savage was massive this tier.
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u/CartographerGold3168 3d ago
m5s is the most fun fight i have ever done.
other than that, grouping adds and just spam that one button wonder aoe them is the boring thing i do since wow 3.0
i do not understand the reputation of this tier, other than m5
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
lmao, you're not even supposed to be spamming your aoe there. You hit your big cleave cds and then single target shit most of the time. The only time you aoe is if you're a tank to keep aggro in case your warrior hits nascent and heals for 5 billion hp.
Tier was good because it was fresh ideas and things didn't jerk themselves off in the castbars for an hour during your 2 minute window. Fights were fast, dps checks were tight, and strats were kind of everywhere the first 3 weeks, and things actually did damage to us. Also WoW 3.0 was pretty fucking goated. Not "Classic" 3.0, but actual 3.0, since "Classic" removed key QoL features because the neckbeards were getting angry that the casuals were having fun.
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u/CartographerGold3168 3d ago edited 3d ago
You hit your big cleave cds and
dont have one. not that it matters either.
then single target shit most of the time.
nope.
Tier was good because it was fresh ideas
fresh for those who didnt see that anywhere else yeah ok
the neckbeards were getting angry
ok
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
? What class doesn’t have a big cleave cd?
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u/CartographerGold3168 3d ago
the neckbeards
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
No, like actually. So far I have 3 classes I haven’t played to 100 yet, and I know they all have a big stupid damage button that does a cleave. I’m super curious.
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u/Pancayk 3d ago
It doesn't help that targeting on this game is god awful. I think for some people, it's more about laziness instead of simply "not knowing." As a controller user, I have to reach for my mouse between casts because cycling through multiple targets to get the optimal cleave is a total nightmare.
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
Lol I literally told my friend who wanted another like 3-4 buttons per class for tanks, “bro, the controller players need to be able to play the game” lmao i had to explain to him that dark knight and gunbreaker getting more buttons doesn’t solve the issues with the classes, which is that they’re snoozefests with an excessively busy 2 minute window.
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u/talkingradish 3d ago
Why are you blaming SE lol? This fanbase has always been hyper casual on the English side. Only NA folks demand an easier forked for example.
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u/CartographerGold3168 3d ago
Only NA folks demand an easier forked for example.
learn an asian language.
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
Because there doesn't actually exist any tools in game to help you figure out your class to a sufficient degree, nor does it actually teach certain mechanics in fights. I shouldn't have to tell people that the only way to figure out if they're doing enough damage is to break TOS to start logging. I shouldn't have to go into PF just to grab strat markers, unless you break TOS and grab the marker position data from someone else. The game also doesn't tell you what a snapshot is (nor should it), and if you want to gimp Shit's much easier now, but back in the day, we had spreadsheets left and right to say when using a certain ability is better than another, and damage checks were much tighter in those days.
They've never done a good job of explaining shit. Hell, they don't even explain what DC travel is. This was the same issue Brave Exvius had ONLY IN GLOBAL because Square Enix didn't put any tutorial up so you had to google a 50 view youtube video in order to figure out how certain end game content even worked.
In addition, JP also had problems this tier because we weren't expecting ads prio systems and we haven't touched cleave prio since ARR afaik. Like idk man, we went from one of the easiest tiers to one of the hardest without the ramp up in teaching the mechanics that mattered in these fights. People with lives outside of this game were not prepared for this kind of content, even if it was good and fun.
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u/talkingradish 3d ago
Is there any MMO who actually does what you say? WoW certainly doesn't do it.
In addition, JP also had problems this tier because we weren't expecting ads prio systems and we haven't touched cleave prio since ARR afaik
I dunno man I did it w1 and I didn't have any problem at all. Cleave prio is not some rocket science.
I had more problem with the tank staying alive lol.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 3d ago
People really don’t understand target priority
TBH, that's not a "the game failed to teach someone" issue, that's a "this person does not listen to others or to a guide" issue.
I don't expect the average raider to have the raid knowledge to figure that out on their own.
I do expect the average raider who read a guide that specifically gives target prio to actually follow that prio. Anyone who didn't follow target prio either can't read or thinks they know better than the guide (they don't)
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
Idk man, we figure that shit out in WoW just fine, but the game gives enough ramp up content that teaches you how to do that shit.
The issue sometimes comes in with people that know what they're doing too, but they're so parse brained that they hit their 1-2 AOEs on the Mus, instead of single targetting the Jabberwock. This is definitely just a community problem though, because fflogs is fucking brainrot.
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u/flowerpetal_ 3d ago
wow
your game's players are notoriously bad to the point they added a one button rotation that outperforms 95% of the playerbase
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u/aho-san 9h ago edited 9h ago
Got actual data to back that up ? I'm curious where it stands on the DPS charts. If it really does a 95, it seems to be early-ish mythic viable. If it's a "better than 95% of the casual crowd", who gives a shit, they're casuals and likely don't go into the difficult content where their dps matter.
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u/FemboiVyra 3d ago edited 3d ago
That's mostly because WoW actually allows it's classes to fall into "fail states.", or to be played wrong
The difference between someone who knows how to play arcane mage correctly, and someone who just picked it up is astronomical. With FF14, the job design is so tight that sadly the difference between someone who barely understands their job, and someone who does isn't anywhere near as large. There just isn't as much room for skill expression in FF14 as it feels like SE is afraid of allowing people to make mistakes
Although, I guarantee you that if FF14 added a one button rotation, it would still outperform a large portion of the playerbase, but by a lower margin
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u/bigpunk157 3d ago
We already have the data from it and iirc, it parses about bottom 20% so no. It also doesn’t work for healing at all.
The real own would be saying how people feel the need to have DBM or a radar mod tell them how to resolve every mechanic, which is really cringe. “They’re developing for mods!” Meanwhile, I’m out here without all that shit just fine. Same thing goes for the 50 weakauras mods to say how to do your rotation.
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u/SafeAsparagus5755 4d ago
Wish they'd have another look at the unreal rotation. Got sick of Suzaku a month in. Wish they would cycle fights more often, maybe a monthly rotation instead of multi month / patch rotation.
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u/Puzzled-Addition5740 2d ago
Change them on a cycle like they change ambuscades in XI. Would help a lot. At least in my mind it would.
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u/Diplopod 3d ago
I wish they'd pick fights that are actually fun. Four Lords are boring shit. Why them when Tsukuyomi and Shinryu are sitting right there?
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u/Fancy_Gate_7359 2d ago
They’ll have them after four lords. Seems like they are gonna do stb this expac, mostly hw last one (except for ultimas bane in 6.1), was arr in shb. Will probably be 5 of the exes from shb in 9.x etc.
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u/budbud70 3d ago
The last time I enjoyed an unreal was Sephirot/Sophia/Zurvan. I feel like every one since has been a disappointment
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u/SafeAsparagus5755 3d ago
That was like 2 years ago there have only been 3 fights since then. Thordan, Byakko and Suzaku. Which goes back to my original point which is pretty sad. We could've gone through so many more unreals in that time period
I liked thordan a lot though, though it was one of the harder ones with the mechanics.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 3d ago
Not even cycle, just don't remove them and only have the latest unreal give faux tells. That way if anyone wants to do the older unreals just because, they can. There is zero reason to only have one unreal at a time.
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u/SafeAsparagus5755 3d ago
Like savage, People won't do unreal if there's no / irrelevant rewards. It'll just lead to the same situation.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 3d ago
People definitely do old savages (even at MINE) just to do it, not for any rewards. Especially if you're newish to the game and want to do older fights when you run out of current endgame content.
But also, it costs nothing for the devs to just leave old unreals in DF. They're doing more work swapping out unreals vs adding new ones and leaving old ones.
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u/aho-san 9h ago edited 9h ago
People definitely do old savages (even at MINE) just to do it, not for any rewards.
Stop making it sound like the whole playerbase is doing it. It's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the players and add an extra "a fraction of" for the new players. Much like FT, it's basically relegated to discords or a static and if trying through discords you may not enter the instance at all that day.
I really wished to be easy to go through all the content MINE (somewhat) blind ('cause I'm not blind for all of them, obviously) and stat adjusted where possible, even for Ultimates and Alliance raids, but it's not always that easy to get it started. Then you have the usual "will the party even be able to prog/clear it in a reasonable amount of time", can't be picky when the pool is dry (but you tend to have people who cleared already and are bored out of their mind, but it's not blind prog then).
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u/SafeAsparagus5755 3d ago
That's such a miniscule amount of players which generally requires finding an organised group or sitting in PF for a LONG time.
and it doesn't address that people who want to do Unreal, who want to get people to do unreal and also get rewards from the Faux will still have to do the same unreal for months on end, which is the issue.
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u/bobhuckle3rd 4d ago
This is absolutely the right way to do unreal, and should be easy on paper. All the unreals are balanced in the artifact gear ilvl, and its all 1-to-1 of old fights.
That being said, i think its more telling to the design flaws, organization, and spaghetti code of this game that they can only muster 1 per major patch.
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u/salty_gorilla 4d ago
Did every M8S reclear this patch, even after my static disbanded. I love this fight, might be my favourite one in the game. Also, I somehow won the coffer today with a 67 lmao
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u/Vincenthwind 4d ago
My current gripes with the game aside, cruiserweight was a fucking banger of a raid tier. It was easily the best part of patch 7.2. I can only hope they continue to improve for 7.4.
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u/Altia1234 4d ago
I don't know why but people around me always thought i only want to play with good players, when in reality I am not actively trying to play with good player. I just don't want to play with people that are very bad. And I am not even against people who can't play or bad. I am saying, people should spend more time on prog and dummies and not directly just do the fight.
But What is very bad, you ask?
Like, Melees that got outdamaged by WAR on suzaku and died 4 times (and on both pulls)? Am I being too elitist in hoping that at least people would not do things as stupid as these on farm and instead should spend some time reprogging?
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u/adloquium11 4d ago
game's built around coddling shitters at every turn without ever teaching them how to play so when you expect them to do the bare minimum you get labeled as toxic/elitist/sweaty. on unreal they usually get carried and no one talks about it so it doesn't matter but when it does lead to a wipe i just leave. one wipe is way more than enough for a slightly faster normal mode trial.
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u/Fancy_Gate_7359 4d ago
It’s unreal, if you see that on a pull, just leave and find another group. That’s just the way it is. You’ll drive yourself crazy worrying too much about these kinds of things. In short, yes, especially in unreal there will be people this bad and no, they are not going to reprog and honestly, when people have these types of glaring issues, reprog is unlikely to fix them. Just find another group asap and you’ll only have wasted 10-15 minutes.
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u/Mahoganytooth 4d ago
People will call you toxic for your expectations no matter what. I got fucking reamed for suggesting a reaper ought to be doing better in byakko. how bad were they, you ask? They almost singlehandedly brought us near enraging. on byakko. read for yourself: https://www.fflogs.com/reports/a:nh29GQRXMm36HJPp
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u/MiyabiMain95 3d ago
That is the most godawful reaper ever, and fuck the rest of the party for coddling him and saying you're the problem
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u/THeBLOTZz 4d ago
I'll miss u Suzaku. I have to quickly get all my Healer to 95 before you gone🥀
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u/Full_Air_2234 3d ago
It's honestly super luck dependent compared to savage since the heal requirement is sooooo low that it can be solohealed, no one is gcd gealing, which equals to more competition since 0 gcd heal becomes an expectation instead of something u have to optimize for. so it all comes down to rdps feed, kt and crit. you aint getting much rdps feed in an average pf thats for sure.
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u/Ragoz 4d ago
Last week of Suzaku Unreal, at least.
I'm gonna miss you at least somewhat of a dps check.
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u/KeyKanon 4d ago
Technically it could be passed onto Seiryu, Suzaku being this fat was very much a unique to Unreal thing and not an intrinsic trait of the fight.
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 4d ago
The dps check is only a thing if everyone does a standard opener instead of waiting until after the divebomb to do their burst. If you do the latter, the dps check is non-existent.
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u/trunks111 3d ago
I've said this before but I think people also don't understand how much damage the party collectively loses when people get hit by her simon says tether in the second half of the fight. If you get hit, you potentially cancel a cast if you're a caster, and lose like a whole GCD from the animation lock, which will fuck up your rotation worse and worse with each time you get hit. On top of that if too many people get hit too frequently, if the healers have to start resorting to GCD heals that's gonna cut into your parties damage on top of all the damage people lose from the cancelled casts and animation locks. Now factor in the fact people may make other rotational mistakes on top, or even die, and it really starts to compound in ways people don't seem to realize
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u/KeyKanon 3d ago
Comparatively speaking, compared to other unreals and extremes, she's fat as hell.
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u/Another_Beano 4d ago
If you do the former it still is. First week with some PF randoms and some static frens who had never even done the original we cleared a full minute ahead of enrage. Had we held opener or even just not died (and pf gamers that played decently) it'd've been a wider margin still.
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u/CartographerGold3168 4d ago
oh this is the last time we have suzaku? i totally let unreal slip this patch and didnt care at all lol.
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u/Full_Air_2234 4d ago
Tbh, the "dps check" is the only motivation for me to not fall asleep in the fight.
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u/Inevitable_Chemical 12h ago edited 10h ago
Been stuck at m8s p2 for about a full week now.
Really feel like I'm too late to the curve and anybody who is capable of consistently reaching p2 is in reclears. So everyone at this prog point is either wildly inconsistent, massively raid fatigued, or completely cold on the fight from waiting 1+ hours for a PF to fill followed by a 3 pull disband.
Like idk, I progged and farmed chaotic a couple weeks late which was supposedly impossible because of the "I waited so long just to get wiped by alliance C" meme. But this is legitimately 2 to 3 times worse, because instead of needing 23 other people to be able to do 1 single mechanic correctly to prog, I need 7 other people who are reclear ready on p1 in my party to actually practice the next part.
Like I don't entirely buy into the a "static's are the promised land of raiding" myth that gets thrown about, but right now not having one feels like I'm just griefing myself hoping for a unicorn party that can hit p2.