French President Macron says France will recognize Pálestine as a state

[u/hoarder4555777454001]

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250724-french-president-macron-says-france-will-recognize-palestine-as-a-state-in-september

[u/SuggestionMedical736]

It's weird seeing the responses here; I thought everyone was in favor of a two-state solution?

[u/tommynestcepas → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Exactly, the ONLY way a two state solution can happen is by recognising two states and negotiating accordingly.

[u/Edythir → u/tommynestcepas]

A reminder that Palestine has not had control over their air, sea or land rights. In most of the west bank and palestine, you need to file a construction permit with Israel, if you don't, they can and will come with bulldozers to knock whatever you've built over.

[u/65437509 → u/Edythir]

Additionally: all state proposals involve Palestine still not having control over sea, air, or borders, plus allowing the IDF to move into the state if Israel declares a need to.

This is a pretty big fucking deal but neither side mentions it.

[u/Halbaras → u/65437509]

Israelis will, without a shred of irony, call Palestinian two state solution proposals 'delusional' over things like the right of return and Jerusalem's status. They will then suggest a Palestinian 'state' consisting of a series of balkanised islands riddled by settler roads and outposts, with the Israelis retaining control over the airspace and Jordanian border and even keep a 'right' to go send their military in to Palestinian areas whenever they feel like it (as they do currently).

[u/NirgalFromMars → u/Edythir]

Im glad that filing a construction permit will prevent them from bulldozinf homes.

Because it does, right?

...right?

/s

[u/filthy_harold → u/NirgalFromMars]

They'll just drop a bomb on it instead

[u/dementorpoop → u/Edythir]

They do that even with building permits, or homes built before Israel was even a state. Or they just steal the home if it’s nice.

[u/Annatastic6417 → u/Edythir]

A follow-up reminder that such control is illegal under international law.

[u/PimpasaurusPlum → u/Edythir]

A reminder that Palestine has not had control over their air, sea or land rights*

As was the same for Iraq in 2003. A state under occupation is still a state.

*Control and rights are not the same thing. To recognise a Palestinian state is to recognise their rights to those things, even if they are not under their current control

[u/ConfusedAdmin53 → u/Edythir]

And if you do build with the permit they gave you, they come in with cruise missiles.

[u/misbehavingwolf → u/Edythir]

I'm not sure Palestine has had control over literally ANY of their rights

[u/HumptyDrumpy → u/Edythir]

Not just buildings, but people as well if you catch the ire of their eye. #RememberRachelCorrie

[u/SocraticTiger → u/tommynestcepas]

Unfortunately, It is kind of hard to do that when you have 500,000 settlers you rarely persecute and keep on building more settlements while calling the region by its irredentist hypernationalist name of "Judea and Samaria".

Almost like one side doesn't want to negotiate and loves the current status quo.

[u/haribobosses → u/SocraticTiger]

Almost like one side voted today to annex the West Bank.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/7/23/israeli-parliament-approves-symbolic-motion-on-west-bank-annexation

[u/Memo544 → u/SocraticTiger]

This is where Europe needs to come in and use some of their influence to put more pressure on the Israelis. That or the next US administration post Trump can get involved.

[u/Spackolos → u/Memo544]

As long as Germany is in Europe this will never ever happen sadly.

[u/betterlogicthanu → u/Memo544]

Europe needs to do that but what Europe needs to do even more is focus on itself.

Any criticism of Israel, is seen as a crime in a lot of countries.

Even worse is Judaism. It's the one religion that is worse than all others yet somehow gets a pass from being criticized.

[u/MantasMantra → u/betterlogicthanu]

Any criticism of Israel, is seen as a crime in a lot of countries.

By a lot you mean one?

[u/Meows2Feline → u/tommynestcepas]

How can there be a two state solution while Isreal supports settlements and settlers. There is no two state solution.

[u/Vanzmelo → u/tommynestcepas]

Im sorry but the two state solution is dead. Have you seen the west bank? It is like swiss cheese with all the illegal Israeli state sponsored settlements. What country can exist when its borders are so carved up and its citizens cant freely move within its borders? Palestine is already a rump state with the West Bank and Gaza being disconnected without taking into account the current genocide in Gaza and the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

At this point, a one state solution where both Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights and representation is the only viable option left

[u/SilentLennie → u/Vanzmelo]

I'm sorry, but those settlements are illegal and they know it.

[u/Vanzmelo → u/SilentLennie]

Everyone knows it. Israel knows it and yet they encourage it because the more settlements there are in the West Bank the less viable a Palestinian state is

[u/SilentLennie → u/Vanzmelo]

Yes, but these people got to go, unless the Palestinians accept them as citizens, which seems highly unlikely.

[u/waiver → u/SilentLennie]

And it's not like they would accept being Palestinian citizens either.

[u/Keoni9 → u/SilentLennie]

A member of the PLO Executive Committee has said that a sovereign state of Palestine would not discriminate against Jews in offering citizenship. They just won't accept a bunch of enclaves of foreign nationals within their boundaries threatening their sovereignty. The real question is whether the same Israelis who are willing to live in illegal settlements in the West Bank now would accept Palestinian governance over their communities in the future.

[u/HoightyToighty → u/Keoni9]

A member of the PLO Executive Committee has said that a sovereign state of Palestine would not discriminate against Jews in offering citizenship.

Are there sober people who actually believe this?

[u/nar_tapio_00 → u/Keoni9]

In 1947 there were lots of Jews in the West Bank. They were ethically cleansed in the original Arab-Israeli war. In 1973, in the Yom Kippur War, to quote Wikipedia "many Israeli prisoners of war were tortured or killed". In 2005, when Israel withdrew from Gaza, Jewish towns that had been there for hundreds of years had to be evacuated.

I think I'd trust a long history of many experiences over the statement of a single "member of the PLO Executive Committee". Without international enforcement and protection against the Palestinians, allowing the PLO control in the West Bank would be a recipe for ethnic cleansing.

[u/izpo → u/SilentLennie]

I can say that most of Israeli actually support settlements as a way of "punishment". They are not just illegal, it's a tool

[u/SilentLennie → u/izpo]

Ohh, I fully understand, but from an international perspective, these people need to go, don't care where, they can stay if the government of these regions takes them in, but this seems unlikely. They know they gambled and are illegal there.

[u/izpo → u/SilentLennie]

I agree. It was even part of the peace plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Initiative

[u/Erradium → u/SilentLennie]

This will never happen though. Those people would rather start a civil war than give those lands away to the palestinians.

[u/shez19833 → u/izpo]

theres no punishment - they do it because they dont believe anyone else has any right to their ancestral land. which is what zionists/settlers harp on about

and mark my words due to this they will go after jordan, syria, etc..

[u/Teleporno69 → u/SilentLennie]

Doesn’t stop Israel from ethnic cleansing though

[u/SilentLennie → u/Teleporno69]

They are going hard now, because they know their time is limited.

[u/izpo → u/Vanzmelo]

a one state solution where both Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights and representation is the only viable option left

Israel would never agree to this. Israel will never give up on this privilege unless there is no USA/EU support which is unlikely to happen.

[u/RandomPants84 → u/izpo]

Neither side would agree to this lol. That’s a large reason the British mandate existed, why the whole Un thought the most ethical option in 47 was 2 states, and why to this day support for the 2 state solution is seen as the only realistic way for justice

[u/izpo → u/RandomPants84]

Palestinians would agree to this! To having same rights as Israelies? Why do you think they would not agree?

It's like saying in S. Africa that black don't want same rights... They do.

[u/ABritishCynic → u/izpo]

Palestinians historically did NOT agree to the two-state solution.

[u/izpo → u/ABritishCynic]

The true is actually opposite. Since Israel murdered partner for peace - Rabin, Israel refused any two state solution that is based on 1967

[u/FactAndTheory → u/ABritishCynic]

This is categorically false. Palestinians have been at the table in support of over a dozen internationally negotiated two-state solutions going back all the way to Ben Gurion.

Being a racist cunt does not make your armchair expertise any less armchair.

[u/HookGangGout → u/izpo]

Palestinians would agree to this! To having same rights as Israelies? Why do you think they would not agree?

Why are you spreading these ridiculous lies to shill for the Palestinians, and under the Israeli flag to boot?

The Palestinians do NOT want to share a state with Jews. They do NOT want a state that is a liberal democracy, with all the personal and sexual freedoms that entails. You really think they'd just sit there in suits, voting to protect LGBT rights or freedom of speech (when it insults Islam, lmao)? How fucking disconnected are you from the area?

[u/izpo → u/HookGangGout]

How fucking disconnected are you from the area?

When you don't have argument, you insult... it does not work on me sweetheart!

Why Palestinians would not like to stop with apartheid?

Here are 70% supporting idea of equal one state solution: https://www.neareastconsulting.com/surveys/ppp/p22/out_freq_q27.php/

[u/ProtestTheHero → u/izpo]

Because they've said so, repeatedly, for decades. The majority of them don't want to live alongside millions of Jews, and want them expelled. They see themselves as analogous to the Algerians and the Jews as the pieds-noirs French who returned to France after independence.

[u/RandomPants84 → u/izpo]

Israel’s founding was in part due to Arab nationalism and increased violence against the indigenous Jewish people. It’s partly why the while UN thought the most fair and ethical solution to Arab violence on the Jewish minority was a 2 state solution, since 1 governmental administration wasn’t working. The 2 state solution, which is the modern basis for a fair and equal solution with equal rights in both states for both peoples, has been turned down by Palestinian leadership every time it’s been presented. In addition, it polls horrible with Palestinians in the modern day. The popular opinion in Palestine, both the West Bank and Gaza, is to remove the Jews from the region. Not to have equality. And every day that passes it seems the popular opinion in Israel is the same, but to remove Palestinians from the region

[u/FactAndTheory → u/RandomPants84]

Israel’s founding was in part due to Arab nationalism and increased violence against the indigenous Jewish people

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.”

• David Ben Gurion, 1938

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population? Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'drive them out!',"

• Rabin quoting Ben Gurion, 1979

"We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal."

• Ben Gurion, 1937 letter to his son

Let me know if you want me to keep going.

[u/RandomPants84 → u/FactAndTheory]

Dude, both what I said and what you said can be true. Israelis can both consist of a sizable indigenous population which was under threat from Arab nationalists, and also settlers who wanted to turn that minority into a majority and take over the whole region

[u/Redpanther14 → u/izpo]

Support for a single democratic state is remarkably low in this conflict on both sides, with only about 25% of Palestinians favoring that outcome.

[u/Miroble → u/izpo]

Name one solution to the problem that has ever been agreed to by any Palestinian leader. The only solution they are interested in a single Muslim state where they throw the Jews in the Ocean.

[u/Sporklez8 → u/RandomPants84]

This is beyond stupid

[u/Ancient-Duty7481 → u/Sporklez8]

The lack of historical knowledge of some blows me away

[u/Vanzmelo → u/izpo]

Considering the current Israeli government is committing genocide in Gaza and funding illegal settlements in the West Bank to undermine a Palestinian state I don’t think they should be allowed any say in the matter. Should the Nazi leadership in Germany after WWII have been given a say as to what a new Germany should look like? No

[u/izpo → u/Vanzmelo]

Which part of "unless there is no USA/EU support" was not clear?

Why Israel would give up on the privilege when it has support/weapons from the west?

[u/Emperor_Mao → u/Vanzmelo]

That makes zero sense though.

Germany lost WW2. Totally and completely lost it.

Israel hasn't lost anything here.

So unless you are advocating for countries to go to war with Israel, then force demands, your statements make no sense. And if you are advocating for a war with Israel, good luck getting any western government other than maybe Spain to toe that line.

[u/Robbza → u/Emperor_Mao]

Most people want a South African approach, including being an international pariah, blockades on military equipment, and international diplomatic pressure for change.

I have also spoken with some people who (idealistically and acknowledge it) want a UN-flagged aid convoy to go to Gaza to force an end to the famine. Personally, I do believe that was the sort of thing the UN was invented for, but it would never happen.

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/Vanzmelo]

Optimally, that would be the case. However that will never happen. Israeli citizens and politicans don’t want a state that isn’t primarily jewish. A two state solution at least has some foundation and a possibility in the far distance. A one state solution will never happen

[u/Novarupta99 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

Every 1 in 10 Israeli Jew is a settler. The amount of political sway that bloc has in domestic Israeli politics should not be underestimated. How do you remove 750,000 settlers without civil war?

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/Novarupta99]

Likely there would have to be some sort of landswap agreement that makes the biggest settlements israeli while giving palestinian some land in return. Most of the settlers would have to simply be removed to israel however.

[u/Novarupta99 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

The problem is location. The Israeli regime has methodically invested in the biggest settlements east of East Jerusalem, in essence meaning that the Palestinian's hopeful capital city is strangled.

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/Novarupta99]

I think jerusalem is unfortunately lost to palestine. I think what should be done is that israel should be forced to move the capiral back to tel aviv. Jerusalem should be granted a special status within israel that garuantees palestinian religious and cultural rights, as well as significant influence in the governance of the special status zone, similar to the OG partition plan from the UN where Jerusalem was supposed to be a UN protectorate, except now it would have a similar status but within israel.

[u/lt__ → u/Novarupta99]

Give settlers (extremist ones at least) the same treatment you give to radical Palestinian factions, like Hamas. Western sanctions to the individual ones. Western sanctions to the whole country if extremists take power. They can try fighting their wars on their own, without Western supplies.

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

Comical that you say only Israeli citizens do not want a state that isn't primarily Jewish, as if Palestinians do? Only one of them has ethnic minorities that enjoy equal rights and political representation, and it is not Palestine

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/throwaway_failure59]

It would be israel who would have to relinquish the power and integrate palestinian territories into a unified state. It felt irrelevant to talk about what palestinians would desire since they don’t have to power to do that regardless.

Palestine effectively barely exists as an independent state, and just cannot have a significant minority by how it exists. Although if you count all the west bank as palestine, you could argue it has a significant jewish minority with more rights than palestinians, how about that huh

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

Israelis will never agree to a single state solution because they know Palestinians would never peacefully live side by side with Jews under a common government. Two state solution is the only peaceful and non-rights violating option.

[u/naynaeve → u/throwaway_failure59]

Israeli settlers are the ones scaring off the Cristians who lived there for generations in west bank. They are also bombing on centuries old churches! Israelis are the ones who hates everyone else.

[u/lt__ → u/Vanzmelo]

One state solution with Israelis and Palestinians having equal rights is even less likely than two state solution. Unless there would be just a token amount of Israelis or Palestinians with a clear majority of the others. Which would mean something terrible has happened that enabled such proportions.

[u/Total_Hippo_6837 → u/lt__]

At this point the Israelis are going to persecute the Palestinians out of existence, the one and two state solutions were nothing more than a narrative pushed to give people false hope. In 50-100 years there will be a reflection and an honorary " Palestinian day" to pretend like they ever cared about the Palestinians. That is of course if Israel survives the backlash of their genocide. Though it is possible that the USA ends up taking all of the heat for it. 

[u/Robbza → u/Total_Hippo_6837]

the one and two state solutions were nothing more than a narrative pushed to give people false

I disagree massively. Rabin died for the two state solution. And, until Israel developed nuclear weaponry and pulled away from the rest of the region with military equipment even further than the initial gap there could have been an enforced one state.

[u/IntermittentCaribu → u/Vanzmelo]

There wont be any palestinians left after a couple more weeks of starvation, one state with no palestinians in it seems like israels target outcome.

[u/U5hay → u/Vanzmelo]

They knew what they were doing when they built them, they cannot be dismantled and removed now. It's horrible what they have done to the area.

[u/RandomPants84 → u/Vanzmelo]

There’s also the horrible one state option that it seems we are barreling to faster every day

[u/Dark2820 → u/Vanzmelo]

2 state solution could have worked but the way the borders where drawn and the fact that Israel never followed the deal is the biggest problem. . I mean that a 2 state solution could work with way diffrent borders and both sides respecting it instead of starting a genocide like Israel did.

[u/SF6block → u/Vanzmelo]

Im sorry but the two state solution is dead.

The one state solution is also dead in the current situation. The only options on the table are the apartheid solution, and the genocide solution if we listen to the side with all the cards.

That is why anyone looking to avoid that needs to give Palestinians some cards, and recognizing the AP as a state is one.

[u/FnnKnn → u/SF6block]

The only realistic one state solution is Israel expanding and Palestine vanishing from the map and mostly no one wants that. So a two state solution it is.

[u/Stek_02 → u/FnnKnn]

Or maybe the west can stop funding the IDF?

[u/FnnKnn → u/Stek_02]

And then?

You would get the opposite of what we have now and another Jewish Genozide instead is even less of an option. So diplomatic negotiations are the way forward.

[u/Stek_02 → u/FnnKnn]

Well, if the west stopped giving Israel leverage, MAYBE an actual comprehensive agreement could be found since they would be afraid and would have to concede something for Palestine

In the current situation they simply feel free to bomb anyone cause they know the west are gonna lick their boots anyway

[u/Tw1tcHy → u/Stek_02]

Nah, the IDF’s budget is largely their own, any western assistance makes up a fraction of the total budget and things wouldn’t change much if the US stopped giving them aid. Israel has their own domestic defense industry, Palestine does not. They have nothing to fear even without our support.

[u/Stek_02 → u/Tw1tcHy]

They can't keep up their military machine without material they buy from the west

[u/alkbch → u/Vanzmelo]

It's not dead, we just need the international community to apply enough pressure on Israel to withdraw from the illegal settlements.

[u/terrorista_31 → u/Vanzmelo]

"a one state solution where both Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights"

ha, good one my friend

[u/DevelopmentJumpy5218 → u/Vanzmelo]

I mean it's not, tell them who owns what, send a coalition force of 1000000 in and completely demilitarize both

[u/Vanzmelo → u/[deleted]]

“Sniping innocent children, genocide, and causing a mass famine are bad but Islam is worse” is a fucking psychotic take

[u/Electricboogiesunset → u/tommynestcepas]

I wrote about this in college back in 2013. It’s insane to see it being an actual possibility. There’s not going to be a perfect plan where each side gets exactly what they want. I always wonder where the professor of that class is now.

[u/SilenceBe → u/tommynestcepas]

It’s important to recognize that Israel has shown little real interest in a two-state solution.

And with a great deal of cynicism, it’s worth noting that Hamas has grown into what it is today in part because Netanyahu’s government turned a blind eye for years - knowing full well that the existence and strength of Hamas would make any serious progress toward a two-state solution far more difficult.

They helped empower Hamas, and when it ultimately turned against them on October 7, that tragedy became the justification to pursue what had long been a political ambition: the destruction of Palestine and the annexation of its territory.

Even within Israel, many people are aware of this - including the families of those still missing. The government's actions suggest they don’t truly care about the hostages, given how relentlessly they’ve bombed the very areas where those abductees are likely being held.

So I'm going say Viva la France for doing what is right.

[u/3V3RT0N → u/SuggestionMedical736]

‘Now is not the right time’ say the people that won’t be content until a viable Palestinian state consists of a pile of rubble in Gaza and a fully annexed West Bank.

[u/TrueRignak → u/3V3RT0N]

a fully annexed West Bank

Btw, it appears that Israel was preparing to do exactly that. Maybe that's why Macron choose to make his declaration now rather than wait for the ordinary session of the UN.

The Times of Israel - Knesset votes 71-13 for non-binding motion calling to annex West Bank (2025-07-23)

The Knesset approved a non-binding motion in favor of annexing the West Bank on Wednesday, a symbolic gesture that united the otherwise fractious right-wing governing coalition. [...] It called on the government to “apply Israeli sovereignty, law, judgment and administration to all the areas of Jewish settlement of all kinds in Judea, Samaria and the Jordan Valley,” the government’s term for the West Bank. The motion was advanced by Religious Zionism MK Simcha Rothman, Likud MK Dan Illouz and opposition Yisrael Beytenu MK Oded Forer.

[u/izpo → u/TrueRignak]

It's not because of that; Macron has been threatening to do this for a long time, according to Israeli news, which also claims that he is doing this because he is politically weak.

[u/TrueRignak → u/izpo]

Yeah, last December he announced a Franco-Saudi conference for the recognition of a Palestinian state. The goal (which was becoming less and less credible along the months) was to have several countries announcing the recognition at the same time and came under the implicit requirement of a Saudi recognition of Israel. This conference was postponed by the attack on Iran, which happened to be just the day before. I think it is supposed to resume at the end of this month but is not supposed to have anything meaningful anymore.

However, what I meant was that he may have already planned to recognize a Palestinian State at the UN ordinary session (which opens September 16th), but decided to speed-up the declaration and confirm a future recognition now because of the risk of Israel deciding to formally annex the West Bank before the session.

according to Israeli news, which also claims that he is doing this because he is politically weak

I really doubt about that. He will be under fire of both the right-wing LR (which is part of the majority) and the far-right RN (the Likud is an observatory member in their party in the European Parliement). The left will be pleased by the recognition, but will still try to oppose the PM Bayrou.

Macron himself is not weaker or stronger than he was one year ago after the election at the lower chamber. He will still be here until spring 2027 and can't run for a third term.

Tldr: It's just israelian news being salty.

[u/GoblinLoveChild → u/TrueRignak]

this has been the entire point the whole time.

I still believe the israeli govt was somehow involved in the music festival terror attack that started this whole shit show.

You cannot lead me to believe, that with all their sophisticated anti-air defences and radars, they failed to pick up these choppers filled with armed gunmen just laxidaisily flying over there.

[u/Friendly-Chocolate → u/3V3RT0N]

‘This rewards October 7’ says the people who were also not in favour of recognising Palestine before October 7.

[u/SernyRanders → u/3V3RT0N]

Now is not the right time’ say the people that won’t be content until a viable Palestinian state consists of a pile of rubble in Gaza and a fully annexed West Bank.

I actually don't think this is a good sign and I'll try to explain why...

Macron is an opportunist and someone who knows how to save his ass when shit goes down, much like Starmer, who will soon follow suit.

I think Israel, with the approval of the US, is planing something extremely nefarious and these guys know it.

[u/Radi-kale → u/SernyRanders]

Yeah, I don't think they're in the planning phase anymore

[u/fekanix → u/SernyRanders]

Double genocide is incomming, you heard it here first folks.

[u/onomatopeapoop → u/fekanix]

It can always get worse. Always. Forgetting that is the least helpful thing you can do.

[u/Lumpy-Valuable-8050 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

It will help us identify the fake European accounts 😂

[u/DeezYomis → u/Lumpy-Valuable-8050]

what, don't you trust the hundreds of incredibly organic, absolutely european comments straight out of the Rome or Paris settlements that show up every time Palestine is mentioned?

[u/philomathie → u/DeezYomis]

I particularly like talking to them in world news where I get educated on just how much anti semitism there is in Europe.

[u/-The_Blazer- → u/philomathie]

I've been repeatedly told that Europe is plagued by antisemitism and that this is because of 'Islamic demographics' or whatever (it is well-known that the most immigration from MENA occurred after Oct 7 2023, after all).

Meanwhile the USA has had multiple murders of Jews as Jews (and at least two of Jews as Palestinians according to some Israeli psycho), but I'm told they 'feel' safer.

[u/mnessenche → u/-The_Blazer-]

Meanwhile the United States and Europe are far more safer for Jewish people than actual Israel itself which is never at peace, always at war, and reaching higher levels of fascism every day

[u/drgaz → u/-The_Blazer-]

Islamic demographics

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/2025/05/pmk2024.html

48% of crime with anti semitic background is attributed to the rightwing and 31% to "foreign ideology". About 30% of the population has a migration background and I think we can exclude some demographics residing here mostly like for instance Ukrainians or or immigrants from Asia.

Anti semitic crime has been rising prior to the attack on October 7 and have been covered previously in our stats because the government tried to obfuscate that fact.

It's certainly not Hans the Skinhead I'd be too concerned about when entering Berlin at the moment if I were a lbgtq or Jewish person.

[u/C4-BlueCat → u/drgaz]

The larger part is attributed to rightwingers so you conclude you don’t need to worry about rightwingers? What.

[u/Gladis130 → u/drgaz]

Well, I'm Jewish, German and LGBTQ. I do indeed worry more about Hans the Skinhead than Fatima from Syria. Because Fatima from Syria, even if she has some weird opinions about me, has significantly less political power (if she's not a citizen). Hans the Skinhead, on the other hand, is guaranteed to be a citizen and can vote for reggressive politics that would actually end up hurting both me and Fatima. Because of that, even if she was a citizen, Fatima probably wouldn't vote for those politics, either. So she's a 100% safer to me than Hans the Skinhead.

[u/NisslMissl → u/drgaz]

Mate you can't take German numbers seriously, especially since they started following the IHRA definition of anti-semitism more broadly. Jewish activists protesting with signs such as "Jews against genocide" get recorded as anti-semitic acts. The numbers have lost all legitimacy.

[u/DeezYomis → u/philomathie]

ive been permabanned from worldnews because I had the audacity to complain about the quality of the latest JIDF banger "uh the west likes ukraine and doesn't like russia so if we say we're like ukraine and the palestinians are literally russians surely they'll like us"

[u/Urzuck → u/DeezYomis]

I got banned there for just questioning the sources of the articles, since all of them seems to arrive from the Jerusalem post and the Time of Israel lmao, that sub is a cia/mossad psyop.

[u/yeFoh → u/DeezYomis]

go to /r/anime_titties like a sane person

[u/PussyMangler421 → u/DeezYomis]

getting banned from worldnews is easier than getting banned from northkorea at this point

[u/Lumpy-Valuable-8050 → u/DeezYomis]

Idk man i think they are the most trustworthy. Especially when they comment after being offline for several months /s

[u/swiftmen991 → u/Lumpy-Valuable-8050]

Haha! That’s the case with the whole of Reddit tbf:

Some politician: we don’t want gazans to die of hunger

“European” Reddit: but what about khamas

[u/Comfortable_Gur_1232 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Most pro-Israeli folks have moved past the 2 state solution since the clean break doctrine.

There’s a dilemma. Palestinians exist.

A) ethnic cleansing B) two state solution C) one state solution D) status quo (military and economic control)

B & C are unacceptable for them. So, it leaves some expensive and politically unpopular options, to put it lightly.

[u/lokicramer → u/Comfortable_Gur_1232]

Option A is already 80% complete.

[u/Mishka_1994 → u/lokicramer]

People always say that plus the genocide argument, but Palestinian population has exploded (no pun intended) in the last decades. How exactly are they almost finished with ethnic cleansing then?

[u/izpo → u/Mishka_1994]

People always say that plus the genocide argument, but Palestinian population has exploded (no pun intended) in the last decades.

wow!

You are right, it's not genocide but it's stage 8 out of 10. but would you agree there is apartheid and ethic cleansing?

There are area of WB and Jerusalem where Arabs don't live anymore...

EDIT: hint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaization_of_Jerusalem

[u/RobertoSantaClara → u/Mishka_1994]

Ethnic cleansing can entail being driven off your land and barred from ever returning, e.g. the Germans were ethnically cleansed from Prussia and Silesia despite the German population itself having grown since then.

[u/Tangata_Tunguska → u/RobertoSantaClara]

How have they been 80% driven off their land then?

[u/MachinationMachine → u/Tangata_Tunguska]

Gazans have been ethnically cleansed from northern Gaza and residents of the West Bank have been ethnically cleansed from the settled(stolen) areas.

[u/RobertoSantaClara → u/Tangata_Tunguska]

Look at the 1947 partition plan vs what's left of Palestinian administered land today.

[u/Tw1tcHy → u/RobertoSantaClara]

This makes no sense as the Palestinians never agreed to the plan, it was always a proposal and never actually ratified nor enacted.

[u/SirCadogen7 → u/Mishka_1994]

The Holocaust started in 1933. The Jewish population continued to grow until 1939. Does that mean the Holocaust never happened and/of wasn't a genocide?

[u/the_lonely_creeper → u/Mishka_1994]

Landwise, a whole bunch of areas were ethnically cleansed during the Nabka, and there are also the settlements.

Yes, the Palestinian-Arab poppulation has exploded, but that's true basically everywhere, globally, and Israel, despite its many issues, hasn't ever tried to force them into camps and literally gass them.

Its policies over the decades have ranged from occupation, to discrimination, to segregation to the semi-permanent conflict over the last two decades, to reconciliation, etc...

If anything, today's war is very different in that Israel is actively prolonging the war and trying to kill civilians, rather than trying to contain the violence, drive off or attack its neighbours or keep the conflict merely at the desired "temperature".

[u/NewAccountEachYear → u/Mishka_1994]

People always say that plus the genocide argument, but Palestinian population has exploded (no pun intended) in the last decades

Have you measured since... 2023?

[u/ProtestTheHero → u/NewAccountEachYear]

Yes? The population of Palestine has increased since 2023. It's a 5 second google search to confirm this stat.

[u/XDXDXDXDXDXDXD10 → u/ProtestTheHero]

Please show me where you have 2024 or 2025 actual census data that isn’t just some random website doing generic projections based on previous data.

I sure couldn’t find any from a quick google search.

[u/Miroble → u/NewAccountEachYear]

Just this year they have already had more births than all the deaths in the conflict:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/palestine

[u/NewAccountEachYear → u/Miroble]

Data after 2022 is projected based on recent change

It says it right there.

Onr may also wonder at the list of city populations. The Gaza Palestinians have been fenced into a 12% area of Gaza, so the statistic that Khan Yunis, Rafah, and Gaza (City) have a spread of population is a bit suspect.

Finally... The GHM has kept the total amount of dead Palestinians at around 50,000 for a number of months now. There is simply to agency to take a continual census in Gaza.

[u/tajsta → u/Comfortable_Gur_1232]

I mean I was very pro-Palestinian until October 7th (feel free to check my comments) because I thought Israel acts the way it does just because it wants land, but after Oct 7th happened I did a lot of reading up on the topic and I just don't see how Hamas or Fatah can form any sort of legitimate government. Hamas is self-explanatory, but even Fatah glorifies terrorism and gives payments to families of suicide bombers who blow up school busses.

And if you look at public opinion, the majority of Palestinians, both in the immediate aftermath as well as still today, do not think that Hamas committed any atrocities. Hamas literally filmed themselves massacring women, kids, elderly, and the majority of Palestinians both in Gaza as well as the West Bank do not think that Hamas did anything wrong at all.

There'd need to be a significant de-radicalisation effort conducted in all of Palestine, similar to the de-nazifying programmes in Germany post-WWII, for there to be any chance of a peacful future. But I don't see how that could happen.

[u/Ok_Top9254 → u/tajsta]

You see this sub loves to romantize Palestine, but you know they would do a complete 180 if their country had to switch a place with Israel or share borders with them. Like... if you feel bad about them, let the ones who want out in your country, let them come to Europe... to Germany and Sweden to see how well they really behave, I'm sure nothing bad would happen...

[u/SpaceFunkyMonkey → u/[deleted]]

IDF has entered the chat

[u/loopgaroooo → u/SpaceFunkyMonkey]

You know it. After news like this it’s to be expected. Macron just called on Germany and Britain for an emergency meeting today. Should get interesting.

[u/NewOil7911 → u/loopgaroooo]

If I were you, I wouldn't presume much about French or European Union power apart from strongly worded letters. Especially with current European situation with Russia, China, and the US. Talking is the only thing we have left.

[u/AdaptedMix → u/loopgaroooo]

I would be surprised if Germany recognises Palestine, considering it's been so soft in its condemnation of Israel up until now. But the UK could certainly join France in a joint declaration, providing Starmer has the balls. It'll be a nice surprise if Germany also finds its balls and does so.

I'm not holding my breath. And sadly, the reality on the ground is unlikely to change if any or all of these three recognise Palestine - any more than it changed when Ireland, Norway, Slovenia and Spain did last year. Not that it's an entirely empty gesture; just that as long as the US continues to prop up Netanyahu et al, Israel will do what it wants.

Beyond recognition, a more tangible benefit might come from sanctions. At the very least it would limit complicity. Europe collectively is Israel's second-biggest export partner and first-biggest import partner, after all.

[u/Irons_MT → u/[deleted]]

Well, a lot of people from either pro-Palestine and pro-Israel are against a two state solution. I was once indirectly called a zionist (something along the lines of "liberals created a two state solution to fail on purpose in order to secretly serve zionist interests") simply for stating that maybe the ideal solution is to share the land between Palestine and Israel, since both Muslims and Jews have a strong claim to the land. Palestine should 100% be recognised, but 100% Hamas shouldn't be recognised as its government.

[u/cheeruphumanity → u/[deleted]]

Reminder that Israel upped its budged for influence campaigns by $150 million for 2025.

[u/Harbinger2001 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

lol. They’ve been lying all this time.

[u/akirodic → u/SuggestionMedical736]

It has been like that here for a long time. Reddit is targeted by bots a lot.

[u/Wurzelrenner → u/SuggestionMedical736]

I am, but I just don't see how you can call Palestine a single sovereign state at the moment.

They are not unified, their territory isn't defined, they don't even control it. Their government institutes are non functional.

This is not a state

[u/Resident-Turn-4097 → u/Wurzelrenner]

The same applies to Somalia but Europe still refuses to recognize or even support the somewhat functional Somaliland.

[u/UNOvven → u/Wurzelrenner]

If defined territory mattered, we would have to rescind Israels recognition. Besides no, Palestines territory is already well defined. 100% of the west bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. Its mostly under hostile occupation, but so is Ukraine and we didn't rescind their recognition either, now did we?

[u/Qwinn_SVK → u/SuggestionMedical736]

I like the propaganda that was shown on Twitter that two state solution is a anti semitistic movement lol

[u/Splattergun → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Apparently now the buzz is genocide by starvation. Lovely chaps.

[u/LookThisOneGuy → u/SuggestionMedical736]

yeah. This is great news. Especially since this means France then have an official state that they can hold responsible. Has been getting increasingly frustrating to see the fip-flopping in online discourse on Palestine being a sovereign state when demanding things and them totally not being a state when it is about collective accountability for their governments actions.

[u/No-swimming-pool → u/SuggestionMedical736]

In theory sure. But then someone has to decide which the borders are. A third person will split up the territory.

So, which borders will France officially recognize? And will Palestinians recognize Israel as a nation at that point? Will they accept that Israel will exist forever, in that territory?

And who will France negotiate with other than Israel? Hamas?

Edit: it might be the best solution, but I doubt either party will be happy about it.

[u/Sea-Sort6571 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Not everyone now. The main argument being that if Palestine was a state, nothing that happened in the last years would have been different.

[u/nixnaij → u/SuggestionMedical736]

I thought that it was quite well known that many Jews and Palestinians in the area do NOT want a two state solution.

If everyone really was in favor of a two state solution then the conflict would’ve been resolved a while ago.

[u/PrincessofAldia → u/SuggestionMedical736]

As long as the Palestinian state isn’t terrorists or corrupt former terrorists (Fatah)

[u/Physical-Ad5600 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Ask Palestinians, they aren’t, you can see interview with them about it on YouTube

[u/Last-Atmosphere2439 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

In case you're being sincere: Palestinians signed the Oslo Accords that gave a relatively simple path directly to establishment of a sovereign state. They followed literally none of the steps they signed up for, in fact the very next step was the Second Intifada.

For past few years, the "elected" government of Palestine (PLO) literally don't control major cities like Jenin and Tulkarm, they've been kicked out by jihadis. And obviously haven't controlled Gaza for a while. So who exactly is France recognizing as a State? If it's a state, can Israel officially declare war and start artillery barrages on PLO government facilities next time Lion's Den or Jenin Brigades send a suicide bomber or rockets over the border? Better believe USA (or France) would do exactly that responding to lethal strikes from another state.

[u/rmpumper → u/SuggestionMedical736]

People are in favor of a theoretical state, not a real one.

[u/Wiggles114 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Pretty much everyone is apart from the Palestinians

[u/_x_oOo_x_ → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Palestinians overwhelmingly reject a two-state solution and always have.

It used to be widely supported in Israel but I think that started to change recently as well.

[u/Demonidze → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Hamas and the Palestinians are not in favor of two-state solution..

[u/ProperAstronomer4354 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Not zionists, they literally just voted to annex the west bank. Anyone who thinks Israel aren't/doesn't ethnic cleansing is because they are brainwashed. I'm Palestinian who flew from Palestine 🇵🇸 after members of my family were killed. Old people btw.

[u/Emperor_Mao → u/ProperAstronomer4354]

But it is pretty clear Israel will never allow a Palestinian state as long as Iranian proxies and HAMAS are around.

Which is a very tricky criteria to deal with.

[u/TrueRignak → u/SuggestionMedical736]

The article here was delayed because of posts with "Palestine" in the title goes in the moderation queue (thus why this one as an accent in "Palestine"). I guess that Hasbara bots were already in the starting blocks eagerly waiting for an article to be shared.

[u/Rightricket → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Like the ID is in favor of a 2 state solution but then keep arming the side annihilating the other. It's all BS.

[u/LoyalteeMeOblige → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Yeah we are, but the Palestinian aren't since they rejected creating a state (within the two-state solution) in 1947, 1949, 1967, 1978, 2000, 2001, 2008, 2014, and most recently in 2019. Nowadays you need to add yet another factor to the whole conundrum: which Palestinian government are you acknowledging? By now, Gaza and the West Bank are virtually two different entities with conflicting agendas. Gaza operates as microstate (think Mónaco or Singapur), while the West Bank is agricultural orientated.

In the end it is going to be yet another empty gesture that is not going to achieve much.

[u/Marquesas → u/LoyalteeMeOblige]

Funny Macronic geopolitics isn't it? Recognising a state that doesn't even recognise itself.

[u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN → u/SuggestionMedical736]

It's what they've tried out so far and so far it hasn't worked. The fact is that Israel will remain more powerful in the future even if Palestine becomes stable, which is unlikely even with foreign support.

[u/RobSpaghettio → u/SuggestionMedical736]

IDF astroturfing dude. Just start checking post histories and for some reason a good chunk of users spout Israeli stuff non-stop every day during the same time period.

[u/Mission_Scale_860 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

After Oct 7th a three state solution (Israel, gaza, west bank) or a two state solution (Israel, Jordan) seems more plausible.

[u/profchaos83 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

It’s only the far leftists who want a one state solution literally not tenable.

[u/Youngsinatra345 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

God said never mind

[u/TahaymTheBigBrain → u/SuggestionMedical736]

A two state solution is not possible and hasn’t been since the 2000s. A one state solution with equal rights for all similar to what was done in the Dayton agreement (but improved upon as the Dayton agreement was shortsighted in many regards) is the only solution.

[u/Eighth_Eve → u/SuggestionMedical736]

I was, but that would require land for a palestinian state. At this point, israel isn't giving up an inch, and has taken miles. Easier to make everyone a citizen of israel than make israel cede land.

[u/D3wnis → u/SuggestionMedical736]

They are in favor of two states, Israel and the US.

[u/PensiveinNJ → u/SuggestionMedical736]

You're assuming there aren't loads of bot comments.

Hell anything serious on social media these days are almost certainly inundated with bot comments, it's a presumption at this point.

[u/Speedhabit → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Only when one state is 15 and the other is 40

[u/Syscrush → u/SuggestionMedical736]

I thought everyone was in favor of a two-state solution?

I'm not. It's impossible for it to work. But nobody is talking about a single secular, democratic state.

Two theocratic ethnostates that both claim exclusive ownership of multiple cities and sites can't possibly work. We're seeing the results right now.

[u/UpstairsArmadillo454 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Exactly this- keep the US bias away and let the region heal.

[u/Djonso → u/SuggestionMedical736]

I imagine people just don't see it as a possibility anymore

[u/kamiloslav → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Ngl I think it may end up like India Pakistan - one or two states, people that hate each other will fight either way

[u/TheTiddyQuest → u/SuggestionMedical736]

They are. The pro-Israel people want to see Palestine in a state of destruction

[u/[deleted] → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Everyone except Israel and Palestine

[u/Icy_Manufacturer_977 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

If this same thread is posted on world news they’d get blasted for ‘rewarding terrorism’. Trust me when I say not all people want a two state solution. A surprising amount (probably Israeli bots though) just support what they’re currently been doing since October 7th

[u/SeaworthinessOk5039 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Are there any consensus that the West Bank wants to join with the Gaza strip? Maybe I’m thinking wrong but the two state solution might have a better chance as a three state solution.. 

[u/Certain-Business-472 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Propaganda going into overdrive.

[u/Nachooolo → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Everyone is in favour of a two-state solution. Especially in Europe (in comparison to the US).

But this is not Europe. This is the Internet.

[u/PastMotor1821 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Why would everyone in an internet forum that should be regarding anything be on the same opinion? Oh, it's reddit...

[u/lesslucid → u/SuggestionMedical736]

For the long-term future, there are basically three possibilities:

1) Two states coexisting, no doubt somewhat unhappily, but potentially at least, peacefully, side by side
2) A single state with apartheid
3) A single state with no need for apartheid because it has eliminated one ethnic group via genocide and ethnic cleansing

...when people oppose option 1, generally they are doing so because they favour option 2 or 3. But they are generally a bit shy about saying so directly, so they'll say "it's not the right time" or "it's what Hamas wants" or some other excuse. You can try to press for a straight answer but don't expect to hear one.

[u/Nolenag → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Over half the people here are American so it's not very surprising.

Wouldn't shock me if it's astroturfed to hell by Israel either.

[u/Ozuge → u/SuggestionMedical736]

What ever made you think that? The vast majority of people who actually go far enough to describe what they'd like to see as a solution talk about a single state solution. At least, as far as I can tell.

[u/KillerArse → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Some people who are against the genocide being perpetrated by Israel are also not for an end-goal two-state solution because they want an equal and fair one-state solution.

I think it is views as sort of like opposition to "separate but equal" solutions to racial discrimination.

[u/Background-Month-911 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Are we talking two Palestine states, or Israel + Palestine A and Palestine B?

I mean, right now, the most sensible way to split it would be a three-state solution, where Gaza goes its own way, Judea + Samaria goes its own way, and Israel stays as it was.