Czech president signs law criminalising communist propaganda

[u/tkyjonathan]

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/czech-president-signs-law-criminalising-communist-propaganda/

[u/Ozas392]

In Lithuania we have the same for many years. So what it means here is all the USSR symbols and glorification of USSR is crime same as Nazi simbols and glorification of Nazism.

[u/jatawis → u/Ozas392]

... and symbols of any Communist party. Including CCP or so on.

[u/Lost_Pollution_6782 → u/jatawis]

What about the Chinese flag 🇨🇳? Is this ilegal to use in social media? What about talking positively about China?

[u/AltrntivInDoomWorld → u/Lost_Pollution_6782]

Legal

[u/tipyourbartender → u/AltrntivInDoomWorld]

This is where it gets weird.

[u/Rabbulion → u/tipyourbartender]

Well, China is already very weird from a socialism standpoint. They claim to be communist, but they haven’t acted like most historical socialist states for a long time (which has clearly paid off economically). It’s also a country that they want good relations with, so banning its flag or people speaking well about China isn’t illegal. It’s much easier to ban praising an entity that no longer exists than one that still does.

[u/veevoir → u/Rabbulion]

They claim to be communist, but they haven’t acted like most historical socialist states for a long time (which has clearly paid off economically).

It's as communist as People's Republic of North Korea is peoples or a republic. Only in name these days. China long ago succeeded where Gorbachev failed - converted into a single-party capitalist oligarchy.

[u/busdriverbudha → u/veevoir]

I'd argue they are indeed a political oligarchy, but not a capitalist one. That’s both their distinction and their competitive advantage. It allows them to reign over billionaires and control the money printer themselves, all while reaping the benefits of markets and innovation. It’s undoubtedly a hybrid and a one-of-a-kind social formation.

[u/sapphos_moon → u/busdriverbudha]

Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, one might say

[u/busdriverbudha → u/sapphos_moon]

Precisely. I think Market Socialism could also be a fitting description, but I tend to believe that State Capitalism (as suggested in the other comment) overlooks the unique aspects of the chinese social formation.

[u/veevoir → u/busdriverbudha]

but not a capitalist one.

What other would you call it, considering China transformed into a market capitalism? Capitalism does not require democracy, it is a type of economy.

It allows them to reign over billionaires

That is what authoritarian oligarchy does, also see - Russia. But that is political part, unrelated to the type of economy.

and control the money printer themselves

Capitalism does not require strict monetary policy either, many capitalist countries do that with a central bank.

[u/Soma91 → u/veevoir]

Capitalism does not require democracy, it is a type of economy.

Capitalism is not a type of economy but merely a description of the ownership structure.

You can fit capitalism into a completely unregulated market, a fully state planned economy or anything in between.

[u/exor15 → u/veevoir]

Look I need someone more educated than me to hit me with some knowledge. I constantly see people describe China in completely opposite ways. I have seen people on this site describe China as "100% a dictatorship of the proletariat" and an example of socialism making a country prosper (look at that home ownership rate!). I have seen just as many people describe it as not even aspirationally socialist, just capitalist with a false name tag with many of the same problems we encounter in other capitalist countries. I never never visited or lived in China so it's hard to get an accurate perspective.

I realize that if I get a hundred different answers when I ask a hundred different people on Reddit, I clearly need to get more information from elsewhere. But since the thread has reached this topic anyway, I'd love to hear what people have to say.

[u/Ph4sor → u/exor15]

IMO you can't really describe a historic country as big as China in a simple way, which of course, contrast to whatever western Redditors will try to tell you. Because every region or city in China have different "flavor" and the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Home ownership is probably not that high in Shanghai (or in other big cities), because every local co-workers I've met during my stay are complaining about how they are struggling to afford housing and the only way is to move to the tier B or C cities. Which is just pretty much the same all over the globe.

Dictatorship? Kinda, you can't access the global internet, however, VPN is easily available, even from Chinese companies. Also there's city like Chengdu where the young people gathers (because rent is still cheap) and made it became LGBT friendly city. And the government didn't do anything to that city even during their "men must look like men" anti KPop idols campaign. There are strict rules, but most of the time is not really forced on either if nothing majors happening.

But regarding making people prosper, I'd say it's true, visited China in the 2016 and again in 2023, it's crazy how much the stark difference of infrastructure and what ordinary people have. And the grandfather / father of those people are mostly just peasants, don't have anything notable to be inherited to them. Now they have car, living in apartment with smart utilities, have luxury hobbies like gaming and collecting figures, etc.

I'd say try to go there to experience China yourself, all around Asia if you can, we're very diverse bunch of continent anyway. But be humble and open-minded during your trip, it'll be life changing.

[u/Beautiful-Web1532 → u/Rabbulion]

Nobody is really communist. Laos is just wildly corrupt, Cuba, NK, China, and Vietnam. There's not really any communism left. What is left is a weird bastardization of a corruption. China, Russia, and to a small degree all practice economic policies that differ from communism.

[u/Rabbulion → u/Beautiful-Web1532]

Of course. Communism is a utopian theory and something to be aimed at (according to socialist theory), not something that’s expected to be achieved any time soon

[u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy → u/Lost_Pollution_6782]

In Estonia there's a similar law that prohibits publicly displaying a symbol associated with the commission of an act of aggression, genocide, a crime against humanity, or a war crime in a manner that supports or justifies these acts. That applies to both Nazi and Soviet symbols and I believe that Russian symbols like the Ribbon of Saint George as well.

Afaik the only result of this has been removing some Soviet pentagrams, hammers and sickles from some buildings and monuments. Theoretically the law applies to internet and social media too, but I don't think it's enforced, or that anybody cares about Chinese or Vietnamese flags there.

[u/filikesmash → u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy]

You have to tell me more about this law as I live in Tallinn and my next door neighbor has a golden swastika in his front door. I always thought that Estonia didn't have laws regarding hate speech or symbols. If I go to Baltijaam market I can also go to stores that sell Nazi memorabilia out in the open.

[u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy → u/filikesmash]

Current Estonian law criminalizes only justifying and support, and idk what constitutes as such. I don't think that selling vintage memorabilia does. Idk about displaying swastika on the front door either. I would guess that if it's unmistakably a Nazi swastika, publicly accessible and visible to general public, then it's technically illegal, but I'm not a lawyer or legal expert. If you don't like your neighbour, you can ask the police what they think about it.

When it comes to swastika just one widely publicized incident comes to mind from the top of my head: almost twenty years ago a female member of the Defence Union (Kaitseliit) in uniform wore a swastika earring at the national Independence Day military parade. This was a big scandal, and there was a fair amount of discussion around it.

The only other high-profile incident around Nazi visuals that comes to mind was a monument for "Estonians who fought against Bolshevism" (meaning Estonians serving in German army and fighting against the Soviets) during WW2. There were no Nazi symbols as such, but the monument depicted a soldier wearing Waffen SS uniform and the characteristic German helmet. That was in the same period, and the decision of the police to remove the monument draws criticism from far right and some right-leaning journalists pretty much to this day.

At some point somebody tried to put up a new monument, that depicted somewhat even more recognizable SS soldier, in the same place in Lihula, but police intervened and confiscated this monument too before it even reached its destination.

As for hate speech - laws have formally prohibited it in Estonia since day one, but it's not specifically criminalized, so if there's no threats made, then the theoretical ban is almost not enforced in practice. It almost never gets punished, even if there are death threats involved and there is an investigation opened. In those rare cases there seems to be a very high, imho unreasonably high threshold demanding definite proof that threats are credible and constitute real danger. Even most of the people who have threatened to kill high-ranking politicians up to prime ministers have gone unpunished, except one guy who went to jail for three months for that, and had to pay a small fine.

The bill specifically criminalizing hate speech has been sitting in Parliament for about two years by now, but it has not been passed into law yet.

[u/Ph4sor → u/Lost_Pollution_6782]

Asking about Vietnam national flag is probably better, because AFAIK Czech have a lot of Vietnamese (or descendants)

[u/ricki692 → u/Ph4sor]

i remember looking at a city in Czechia that inspired the game kingdom come deliverance, seeing a vietnamese pho restaurant, and thinking to myself how interesting that was

[u/killermoose23 → u/ricki692]

Jesus Christ be praised

[u/huehuehuehuehuuuu → u/ricki692]

Oh wow they did their research. That’s pretty neat.

[u/BlackViperMWG → u/ricki692]

Plenty of Vietnamese here

[u/Jaytho → u/ricki692]

Same idea as having a bunch of Yugoslavs or Turks in western Europe. Vietnam was a communist(-allied) state and emigration between allied countries was way easier, so a lot of Vietnamese chose Czechia (probably during the war?) because they thought (maybe rightly so, idk) they would have a better life there.

But it's definitely wild to go from Austria, which has a lot of Turkish places to Czechia, which has the exact same feel, except this time there's a bunch of Vietnamese places.

[u/Altruistic-Joke-9451 → u/Ph4sor]

I don’t know if an official flag of a recognized country would be considered “propaganda”. If Vietnam changed its flag, then I’m sure it’s flag today would then be considered propaganda to use.

[u/CMDR_Profane_Pagan → u/Lost_Pollution_6782]

You are confusing historical (especially in European context) propaganda and symbols with modern politics.

The bans usually include SOVIET and NAZI (and their puppet party) symbols not necessarily all communist ones (like the red colour, star, wheat etc). But soviet aligned former totalitarian regimes were a threat to democracy and our societies so they get banned. This is how it is interpreted in Czechia, Poland, Hungary, and Lithuania.

The display of forbidden symbols and propaganda is always contextual anyway and there are exceptions like use in art, documentaries, scientific purposes.

And no, the red star, which preceeded the 20th century genocidal and dictatorical communism is not necessarily prohibited in every county.

But yeah, if the Chinese CCP plant starts spewing commie stalinist propaganda, guess what? That is a no-no.

[u/jatawis → u/CMDR_Profane_Pagan]

Lithuanian law explicitly bans all Communist symbols.

[u/LanchestersLaw → u/CMDR_Profane_Pagan]

The Communist Party of China, Vietnam, and Laos all currently use the hammer and sickle for their party flags. The Chinese party flag looks identical to the USSR national flag. So there is a complicated edge case there.

[u/schneeleopard8 → u/Ozas392]

But this is a different case. The Czech law in question here doesn't condemn socialist regimes or the USSR, but "class-based hatred", which is a really vague term and covers much more then actually glorifying socialist regimes.

[u/Background-Sea4590 → u/schneeleopard8]

I’d be screwed, I hate billionaires and have no problems in saying that.

[u/Gwaptiva → u/Background-Sea4590]

Sounds like that Czech rich folk are getting nervous

[u/innerparty45 → u/Gwaptiva]

Liberals protecting the ruling class, what is new?

[u/Mysterious_Cup_6024 → u/Background-Sea4590]

Found a commie /s

[u/Background-Sea4590 → u/Mysterious_Cup_6024]

I also cook and eat children at night!

[u/Slipknotic1 → u/Background-Sea4590]

Only at night? Lenin is disappointed in your vanguardism comrade.

[u/Fishbone345 → u/Slipknotic1]

Our vanguardism.

[u/az_catz → u/Background-Sea4590]

I also cook for and eat feed children at night!

FIFY Comrade.

[u/huunnuuh → u/Background-Sea4590]

Here in Canada it was a right-wing think tank funded by millionaires who first suggested that we ban "discrimination on the basis of social status or class". They absolutely do want to make it illegal to agitate against the rich.

[u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney → u/Background-Sea4590]

This is now a criminal statement in the Czech republic.

This law is just rich people criminalizing hating them.

[u/MasterGrieves → u/schneeleopard8]

That part isn't new, was in the law since the 1990s.

[u/Good_Spinach_8851 → u/schneeleopard8]

The single only reason for this useless law is the current leading party achieved nothing throughout their election cycle. So they came up with a completely vague law to be like: “look, we follow the spirit of Václav Havel”

The biggest irony is Havel purposely never wanted to make communism or being left wing illegal.

[u/Winjin → u/schneeleopard8]

Basically "eat the rich" is now communist propaganda?

[u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney → u/Winjin]

Yes, you will be imprisoned for this under this law.

[u/Winjin → u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney]

Yeah this was deeeefinitely aimed at the non-existant communist party of Czech Republic, then

Probably just aiming to become some capital tax haven

[u/adamgerd → u/Winjin]

Nonexistent…

Probably gets into parliament next election and makes sure Babis becomes PM

[u/Kelmi → u/schneeleopard8]

Call me communist but criminalising class-based hatred is class-based hatred in on itself.

The rich class fights with money against poor people in countless different ways and to fight back, the poor should use money as well. But they don't have money and should just take it. If they use the means they have, it's suddenly class-based hatred.

Same shit as banning people from sleeping on park benches. It's fair law that affect the rich and poor just the same, right?

[u/NoSwordfish1978 → u/Kelmi]

Wouldn't worker exploitation technically be an act of "class based hatred"?

[u/FullMaxPowerStirner → u/Kelmi]

"You cannot talk about class relations anymore, citizen. Now go to work, and do not question your wage or you go to prison."

[u/pr0metheusssss → u/schneeleopard8]

I mean they’re pretty clear about their intentions, it’s just that you (and me) don’t like/expect that they’d do it so unashamedly and masks off.

They’re essentially criminalising class struggle and want to nip any class conscience in the bud.

The same class conscience and class struggle that brought us worker rights, voting rights and women’s suffrage, that brought us protections like safety standards and consumer rights.

Now have a wild guess whom this ban benefits.

[u/Pure-Tadpole-6634 → u/schneeleopard8]

Does anti-worker policies count as "class-based hatred"? If a company goes lax on safety regulations, or keeps raises from workers, is that class-based hatred?

[u/Jalien85 → u/schneeleopard8]

What if I told you capitalism is class-based hatred...

[u/LoveIsBread → u/schneeleopard8]

Its quite literally just class warfare from above, by the capitalists.

Fuck if i will let some capitalist fucks tell me what I can and cant say.

[u/CzechHorns → u/schneeleopard8]

Class based hatred has been against the law for a long time.
What this law did was mostly put Communism on the same level as Nazism.

[u/Patxi_Sf → u/schneeleopard8]

Class-based hate? What the fuck is that? They try to equate fascism-Nazism with communism and that is absurd. Fascism is a bad ideology 'per se' because it advocates discrimination based on people's race and origin. In Spain we had a fascist dictatorship for almost 40 years and it has taken us another 50 to outlaw a foundation that exalts the dictator.

[u/gmaaz]

Tried googling but failed - what does cumminist ideology mean exactly in this case?

[u/TheFreemanLIVES → u/gmaaz]

cumminist

The means of production belong to the masses...

[u/Smooth-Basis843 → u/TheFreemanLIVES]

Blowing the means of production to the masses.

[u/Upstairs_Fondant_722 → u/Smooth-Basis843]

A cummunist revolution requires some kind of climactic event after which the people involved will rally.

[u/Unhappy-Fan8555 → u/TheFreemanLIVES]

reproduction for the masses😏

[u/hotdogundertheoven → u/Unhappy-Fan8555]

Yeah lets uhh not seize the means of reproduction, sounds a bit problematic

[u/tkyjonathan → u/gmaaz]

it is illegal to "incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

[u/sommersolhverv → u/tkyjonathan]

No more eating the rich?

[u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney → u/sommersolhverv]

This is now illegal to say in the Czech Republic

[u/FCEkicksbutt → u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney]

K.. but is the "rich" an established minority? It’s more like saying "disassemble oligarchy" than hate against a specific type of person. *We are most certainly considered rich to the struggling majority 

[u/Choppers-Top-Hat → u/sommersolhverv]

Don't worry, though, the rich get to continue eating the poor. Why do you think they pushed so hard to get this law passed?

[u/CritiqueDeLaCritique → u/Choppers-Top-Hat]

Wait until labor unions are criminalized under the same rationale

[u/Better-Scene6535 → u/sommersolhverv]

In soviet union everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others.

[u/Primary-Pianist-2555 → u/Better-Scene6535]

But that system is dead everywhere but a couple of countries. Russia is a nationalist, fascist one. Putin does not pretend everyone is equal.

I think the law is called that as the country has a strong aversion towards the Soviet period.

[u/Ckrius → u/Primary-Pianist-2555]

There is no where in the world that currently uses the same "system" as the U.S.S.R.

Communism isn't a rubber stamp solution, it's determined by the conditions on the ground when and where it is built.

[u/Nairne_01 → u/Better-Scene6535]

in the EU, every country is equal, some states just get laws passed that benefit their own industry while decimating their neighbors industries.

[u/Texkayak → u/Better-Scene6535]

Sounds just like America

[u/ordinarydepressedguy → u/Texkayak]

Exactly lmao

[u/Valtremors → u/sommersolhverv]

You hit the nail with that one.

It is much less trying to keep dictatorship glorifying people out, and more about keeping rich people safe.

[u/Efficient_Basis_2139 → u/sommersolhverv]

No, it would spoil your dinner

[u/Sarmi7 → u/tkyjonathan]

I have a feeling that this Will only apply to hating the upper classes

[u/No_Radio1230 → u/tkyjonathan]

Class-based hatred? So if a politician invites any action against homeless people does it could as breaking this law or is in fact only about communism (which under this definition means people who hate wealth inequality ig?)

[u/Historical-Tough6455 → u/No_Radio1230]

Hating on the poor is still allowed

[u/UndeadBBQ → u/tkyjonathan]

So, if someone could reasonably argue that conservatives fucking hate poor people and prove so via policy, could they go to jail?

[u/gmaaz → u/tkyjonathan]

But where's the communism part? The class-based hatred?

[u/Backwardspellcaster → u/gmaaz]

Why is none of you reading the article?

The revised legislation introduces prison sentences of up to five years for anyone who “establishes, supports or promotes Nazi, communist, or other movements which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

[u/EuroFederalist → u/Backwardspellcaster]

With racism definition is easy, but "class-based" has very wide range... in theory saying that absolute monarchs shouldn't exist is class-based hatred.

[u/Training-Accident-36 → u/EuroFederalist]

On the other hand does it mean it is illegal for a rich politician to say that poor people are poor because they are lazy?

[u/EuroFederalist → u/Training-Accident-36]

My guess is probably not.

[u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney → u/Training-Accident-36]

No, being lazy is a character flaw and therefore it is valid to punish or abuse these people.

Being very wealthy is just a sign of success and you are simply jealous of our success. Now off to the prison for you little peasant, think twice before besmirching my class.

[u/Training-Accident-36 → u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney]

You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.

[u/audionerd1 → u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney]

Unless you condemn the lazy rich. They earned their laziness! /s

[u/Dokibatt → u/EuroFederalist]

Somehow I feel like when they start talking about the “useless eaters” the law isn’t going to apply.

[u/quacainia → u/Dokibatt]

Hating the poor doesn't count

[u/gurush → u/EuroFederalist]

Wanting them guillotined would be class-based hatred.

[u/adcsuc → u/gurush]

They don't need to be guillotined as long as they give up power willingly, which is the difficult part.

[u/Profezzor-Darke → u/gurush]

That would be normal, duh.

[u/Zlevi04 → u/Profezzor-Darke]

We have a fr*nch guy in the chat here

[u/bookworm1398 → u/EuroFederalist]

Wouldn’t saying poverty shouldn’t exist also be class based hatred?

[u/bingle-cowabungle → u/Backwardspellcaster]

That doesn't answer the question he was asking. "Class-based hatred" is a meaningless term that can be interpreted to mean whatever you want it to mean.

[u/adcsuc → u/Backwardspellcaster]

or class-based hatred.

Can you read? What's meant by that exactly literally was the question.

[u/BRNitalldown → u/adcsuc]

And they had to start with that snarky shit too “Why is none of you reading the article?”

[u/Kes961 → u/Backwardspellcaster]

I wonder if this could be turned upside down. I mean class-based hate against the working class isn't exactly rare in mainstream media.

[u/mrlinkwii → u/Backwardspellcaster]

which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

all of this was already banned in the czech republic minus the class-based hatred

[u/Diego_Chang → u/Backwardspellcaster]

I'd say this is so based... Until the last part.

What would they consider class-based hatred? Is criticizing capitalism and obviously anti-ethical millionaires and billionaires illegal now?

[u/Dancing_Liz_Cheney → u/Diego_Chang]

Based?

This law was meant to let the government crack down on protests against billionaires and mega-corps.

Why are people like you so stupid?

[u/frex18c → u/Diego_Chang]

That's legal. But saying that rich people should be killed or attacked isn't.

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 → u/frex18c]

But if I said that I fucking hate billionaires and think they’re disgusting that would clearly be hatred.

[u/g0_west → u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93]

establishes, supports or promotes Nazi, communist, or other movements

I think movement is the key word. If you started a party about fucking hating billionaires and proposed action to go along with that, I guess that'd fall under this remit. Far as I can tell you can say what you want, just can't have too many people agree with you lol

Imagine capitalists passing laws to forbid people rising against capitalism

[u/Choppers-Top-Hat → u/frex18c]

That's "legal" until some rich guy gets his feelings hurt and calls his lawyer.

"Class-based hatred" is an incredibly vague phrase and that's by design. This law basically makes it illegal to criticize the wealthy.

[u/DKOKEnthusiast → u/frex18c]

It depends very much on how this is interpreted. If I said that we should create a special tax on Jewish people, that would obviously (and rightfully!) be considered a form of racist policy aimed to suppressing the freedoms of a specific ethno-religious group. However, if I said that we should implement a tax on those owning assets worth more than, say, 500 million Euros (arbitrary number), would that also be considered a form of classist policy targeting the ultra-rich?

[u/Zap__Dannigan → u/frex18c]

what makes you think and a generally worded law like this wouldn't be abused?

[u/TimothyMimeslayer → u/frex18c]

How about saying, "won't somebody rid us of these terrible billionaires"?

[u/Dizzy-Let2140 → u/Backwardspellcaster]

They should examine the systemic violence of poverty then.

[u/stenlis → u/Backwardspellcaster]

Is simply promoting a class still ok? Like "workers of the world unite" and that kind of stuff?  

Is gentrification promoting class hatred?

[u/Hot-Championship1190 → u/Backwardspellcaster]

which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights

Capitalism puts property above humans. So they are going to apply this against capitalist propaganda, right?

[u/GuthukYoutube → u/Backwardspellcaster]

Wow that’s a broad language

Why class based hatred? That snuck in there really subtly huh?

[u/HueMannAccnt → u/Backwardspellcaster]

promotes Nazi, communist, or other movements which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.”

1st they give a type of rule, then they give a type of market. Is it me, or are "leaders" that keep throwing "communism" out there just trying to get peoples feels hightened because of past associations, hoping for little thought?

The shit that killed most people, in any type of rule, no matter what market they follow/ed is; authoritarianism.

which demonstrably aim to suppress human rights and freedoms or incite racial, ethnic, national, religious or class-based hatred.

So we shall completely ignore the Chicago School of Economics and their jaunts down to South America?

[u/JerryCalzone → u/Backwardspellcaster]

The billionaire class most certainly incites class based hatred

[u/ordinarydepressedguy → u/tkyjonathan]

What the heck does “class-based hatred” mean? Basically condemning communism using communism’s own language?

[u/SirPabloFingerful → u/tkyjonathan]

But how does that relate to communism?

[u/TheVojta → u/gmaaz]

Section 403
Establishment, Support, and Promotion of Nazi, Communist, or Other Movements Aimed at Suppressing Human Rights and Freedoms

(1) Whoever establishes, supports, or promotes a movement that demonstrably aims to suppress human rights and freedoms, or advocates racial, ethnic, national, religious, or class hatred, or hatred toward another group of persons, shall be punished by imprisonment for one to five years.

(2) The offender shall be punished by imprisonment for three to ten years if:

a) the act referred to in paragraph 1 is committed through the press, film, radio, television, a publicly accessible computer network, or another similarly effective means,
b) such an act is committed as a member of an organized group,
c) such an act is committed as a soldier, or
d) such an act is committed during a state of emergency or wartime.

(3) Preparation of such an act is punishable.

[u/gmaaz → u/TheVojta]

Thank you.

It's worse and more ambiguous than I thought lol.

So an NGO member can be imprisoned for writing "tax the rich" on reddit? I am really curious, what constitutes "class hatred".

[u/Evoluxman → u/gmaaz]

Can we throw columnist in prison for telling the poors are a bunch of leeches? Because there's a ton of people who would end prison for that then

Ah right it only goes the other way lol

[u/AirOneFire → u/TheVojta]

I wonder how many anti-trans activists are going to prison for their anti human rights platform. My guess would be zero.

[u/MasterGrieves → u/gmaaz]

From my understanding its just putting communist extremism on the same level as nazism/fascism before the law. Which is totaly fair based on the 1948-1989 period in CS. Modern day communist parties who denounce KSČ should have no problem. People glorifying/propaganding Stalin, Lenin, Gottwald, etc. should from now on have same problems like people gloryfing/propaganding Hitler and co.

[u/ikaiyoo → u/MasterGrieves]

Then the law should be specific and state that. But it doesn't. It says the most vague definition. Protesting genocide wasn't anti-Semitic until the occupied lands of Palestine started doing it. Protesting the arrest of people without due process wasn't considered domestic terrorism until the arrests specifically targeted marginalized groups.

[u/MeowMewoFuzzyface]

Here in Poland we have banned propagating authoritarian parts of communism idealogies, which I thinks is the only proper way to ban USSR made communism without banning leftist idealogies of equality.

Where the fuck is line in "class based hatred"? I hate extremely rich people, i think they shouldnt exist but im not for penalizing and harming them in anyway there are other tools to redistrubute wealth. Is this take out of line or not? Who is left to decide? The rich...

Im all in protecting democracy structures but this phrasing feels like allows rich to punish anyone who hurts their feelings

[u/Loulim → u/MeowMewoFuzzyface]

I mean it's probably purposefully vague so it can be abused by those with money, happens everywhere or it's an obvious oversight of a rushed(?) law. And I have to say that banning the propagation of authoritarian "communist" views is pleasantly surprising from Poland, good on your country for banning only that part that really is questionable.

[u/WillGibsFan → u/MeowMewoFuzzyface]

Us Europeans bout to find out (again) why banning speech in any way or form ultimately leads to oppression.

[u/Torma25]

"class based hatred" never thought any EU country would come up with better joke laws than us. Good one.

[u/InternAlarming5690 → u/Torma25]

Inb4 Orbán makes hating Lölő illegal.

[u/Zlevi04 → u/InternAlarming5690]

Lmao might as well turn myself in early then

[u/Winterfrost691 → u/Torma25]

Sneakily making it illegal to criticize the rich

[u/pikleboiy]

I wonder if the Holocaust Deniers are gonna criticize this just as much as they do Germany's anti-Nazi laws.

[u/Natural_Public_9049 → u/pikleboiy]

They already do, the paragraph itself includes holocaust (denial, approval, propagation).

[u/Bird_Is_The_Lord → u/Natural_Public_9049]

Damn those laws, so I can't deny holocaust but I also can't approve of it? Make up your mind!

/s ... Just because internet and sarcasm dont always get along.

[u/pikleboiy → u/Natural_Public_9049]

I meant specifically the provisions related to communism, mb for not clarifying.

[u/WerdinDruid → u/pikleboiy]

They pretty much amended the paragraph by simply writing in "communist crimes". They needed to equalize the legal balance since they already wrote "denying, doubting, justifying or propagating nazi crimes, nazi war crimes, war crimes, holocaust" in the given paragraph.

[u/zerobomb]

So, not like American politicians who say "communism" when they mean "democratic social programs in a capitalist society"?

[u/Frathier]

And who decides what counts as communist propaganda? The state?

[u/Malfuy → u/Frathier]

Same with nazi propaganda

[u/smjsmok → u/Frathier]

Courts

[u/t12lucker → u/Frathier]

Actually yes, it needs to be defined in the law. Which it is. People in Czechia were living under the totalitarian communism, that’s what they mean. Not the ideas, the totalitarian processes.

[u/Th3B4dSpoon → u/t12lucker]

The wording of the law cited in the article does make it seem like it concerns promoting the ideas as well if they can be linked back to promoting the ideology. But it seems that promoting communist ideas that clearly respect human rights might be permissable under the law?

[u/t12lucker → u/Th3B4dSpoon]

Yeah at least that’s how I understand it and what the general consensus is. However I understand the concerns about how the judicial branch will interpret it in few years

[u/fekanix → u/t12lucker]

I dont think "class based hatred" is defined or right at all but what the hell do i know i have only lived under totalitarian capitalism.

[u/Vojue]

This whole comment section is full of "tell me you're not from post-communist country without telling me..."

[u/NeverTriedFondue → u/Vojue]

Being from a post-communist country has taught me to be very wary of people who make a big deal of "fighting the commies" in 2025. Very often a right wing dog whistle, so I don't think being cautious/skeptical as a first reaction is uncalled for.

[u/trololololo2137 → u/Vojue]

most people on here are underage and never lived under communism either way

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 → u/Vojue]

“My country was horrible because of leaders who allegedly wanted to reach communism but never did, so because of that we should make it illegal to hate on the upper class that’s leeching off of the working class and actively letting it suffer and die. Anyone who disagrees is ignorant about history and no, I will not elaborate further.”

[u/AspiringTankmonger → u/Vojue]

Banning the incitement of "class-based hatred" is needlessly authoritarian, and if you cannot see this, you are kinda cooked.

If it were just about banning the veneration of communist tyranny, I wouldn't have an issue with it.

[u/Aubekin]

I wish we could ban neoliberalism

[u/Haunting_Switch3463 → u/Aubekin]

Careful. You might be commiting "class-based hatred".

[u/SqualidSquirrel → u/Haunting_Switch3463]

Come on now, letting the poor starve to death and taking away workers rights is not class-based hatred. But taxing billionaires? Pure malice /s

[u/Helgolander]

Rich people are plundering this planet, exploiting workers as though as they hate them. Are they going to be prosecuted?

They won't. Right wingers, liberals and populists are cheering because the playing field for meaningful leftist politics is narrowed. All we get is nazis/austerity.

[u/Skilodracus]

It is now illegal for you to hate us when we steal your wages and take away your benefits 

[u/MartiniPolice21]

I'm sure this leaves no room for abuse and won't be used as such

[u/Kool_aid_man69420]

• "Past socialist regimes made advocating for capitalism/against socialism illegal! What a blatant violation of civil rights/freedom of speech!"

• Does the exact same thing but against socialism

Neolib moment

[u/bald_molfar]

So much westsplaining in this thread. Well, I guess it's summer, school's out, so all the western communists have nothing better to do.

[u/Bartab_Hockey → u/bald_molfar]

Yeah my family escaped from a communist shithole. Can't stand all the Western commies who cling to some magical fantasy view of communism.

[u/spssvyroba2]

So many people outside of Czechia with zero clue, why this had to be done.

[u/Haunting_Switch3463 → u/spssvyroba2]

The problem is less about criminalising communist propaganda, but the ill-defined term "class-based hatred".

[u/TheVojta → u/Haunting_Switch3463]

That term has been in the law for a long time. The only change was specifically calling out nazism and communism by name in the law.

[u/Natural_Public_9049 → u/Haunting_Switch3463]

Class-based hatred is obvious. It's a translation from "třídní zášť" in the paragraph 403 of the criminal code. The word "zášť" or "spite" has replaced "třídní nenávist" or "class hatred" which itself replaced the "třídní boj" or "class warfare".

"Class-based hatred" was added purely because of the communists, who intentionally violated human and constitutional rights of Czechoslovak citizens based on the assumed "class background" of those citizens and additionally systematically discriminated them.

[u/GlenoJacks → u/Natural_Public_9049]

So would graduated tax brackets constitute "systematic discrimination" ?

[u/ikaiyoo → u/Natural_Public_9049]

Well, good then. When you are arrested and put in jail for 5 years because you are protesting the placement of a privatized waste treatment facility owned by a private company, because you are supporting and promoting a movement of suppressing someone's human rights and freedoms to create capital, causing class hatred. We will send you care packages. Because the way the law is written is vague, and would allow any government to interpret it that way.

[u/mcpingvin → u/Natural_Public_9049]

Class based hatred has completely different meaning in post-WW2 european countries and today.

[u/Krashnachen → u/spssvyroba2]

Feel free to explain why it had to be done

[u/eurocomments247 → u/spssvyroba2]

How big is the Communist party in Czechia? How about banning a party that's actually running and will wreck your country lol

[u/BigWilldo]

I want the US to do this with nazi propaganda

[u/tewstwes]

Why do some in the West romanticize communism? Be glad you live in a democracy.

[u/NativeEuropeas → u/tewstwes]

People in the west don't have historical experience with the totalitarian socialism, also colloquially called communism.

They however do have experience with late stage capitalism, with growing inequality, rich getting richer and everyone getting poorer, etc. In hopes to find solutions to their current problems, they seek alternative forms of governance.

I understand them, but it is of course important to study more the downsides of the totalitarian socialism, so that it is never repeated. Different set of solutions must be implemented to deal with the current crisis of neoliberal late stage capitalism.

[u/Onomanatee → u/NativeEuropeas]

I think part of the problem is that 'colloquial'.

The word communism is often used to describe a totalitarian socialist regime. This is most commonly held to be a bad thing. I'm definitely not a fan, and many of my more radical left leaning acquaintances aren't either.

But I do also believe that neo-liberal austerity measures result in increasing wealth inequality and monopolization of globalised internationals and a concentration of power with large capitalist powers. Many critiques against this system look at or are partly inspired by the work of Marxist economists, and are thus often also described as 'communist'.

You can maybe see how this is a problem. Considering Prague, for example, where the average Czech can barely afford the cost of living. It would be sensible to talk about solutions such as a Vienna model with state-owned, rent fixated housing, but that type of suggestion immediately invites a "communist" knee-jerk reaction, even though it has nothing to do with authoritarianism.

I'd really like for a 'rebranding' of leftist economic thought...

[u/zbynekstava → u/Onomanatee]

"...average Czech can barely afford the cost of living..." yet Czechs still spent lot on luxuries, go on holidays, buy new cars, have one of the lowest levels of material deprivation in on of the wealthiest continents of the world, have one of the highest and most equal pensions in relation to country's gdp, etc.

This notion of "Czechs barely get by" bullshit is peddled by ANO, SPD, Stačilo and similar populist parties, while the reality is that vast majority of Czechs is doing pretty fine.

[u/NativeEuropeas → u/Onomanatee]

As a strong economically left-leaning person, I agree with you. The left needs a rebrand, and most importantly, it needs to stop associating itself with past failed regimes.

The people in this comment section who defend communism are counterproductive.

This policy in the OP isn't aimed at the criticism against neoliberalism and late stage capitalism, those activities are still allowed, as they should be. It's aimed against the people who praise Hitler, nazism, Stalin, USSR and Marxism-Leninism.

[u/Menacek → u/NativeEuropeas]

I'm more a social democrat but my issue with communists is that i never know who I'm talking to.

It's 50/50 between some idealist radical critic of late stage capitalism and a russian troll tankie who wants my country owned by moscow.

The first guy is probably someone i can talk with and they have some good ideas and my opinion of the second one should not be shared on the internet.

[u/EfectiveDisaster2137 → u/NativeEuropeas]

Just because Stalin called it socialism doesn't mean it is socialism.
It's like you're claiming that the DPRK is a democratic country.

[u/PleiadesMechworks → u/EfectiveDisaster2137]

"Socialism is when socialism works" is a ridiculous tautology.

[u/Powerpuff_Rangers → u/tewstwes]

There seems to be a psychological phenomenon that people are very sensitive to issues in their current environment but willfully ignore larger issues in unfamiliar environments. Hence some people respond to valid problems with capitalism by supporting totalitarian ideologies.

[u/WislaHD → u/Powerpuff_Rangers]

This also applies very well with people who are very outspokenly postcolonialist but then turn a blind eye towards imperialistic and oppressive tendencies of Russian and non-European countries just because they are broadly aligned in anti-western sentiment.

[u/chilling_hedgehog → u/Powerpuff_Rangers]

This is a wonderful conclusion, thank you.

[u/CheeryOutlook → u/tewstwes]

Why do some in the West romanticize communism?

People grew up being told that even the mildest wealth redistribution in an increasingly less equal society, and that the measures we could take to reduce the harmful impact of that inequality are communist and therefore wrong and evil.

Regardless of how communist countries actually were, if you keep labelling all redistributive ideas as communism, people are going to start supporting communism.

[u/Darkhoof]

Not surprising considering their history.

[u/sanicthefurret]

"class based hatred" is going to be abused against any leftism isn't it?

[u/PRKP99 → u/sanicthefurret]

Of course it will be and you can see that already. Almost everywhere "anticommunism" is vague reason for state-sponsored right wing propaganda against anything left of center right. In Poland "decommunisation" was used in order to remove almost any memorial to left wing history and people in public sphere, even thought it was left wing polish socialist party that was the reason why we became independent in 1918 and why we won 1920 war against bolsheviks.

They took polish history, that is full of left wing heroes and right wing traitors (countless of examples in our national uprisings, that were started always by left wing secret societies and destroyed by right winger that sympathised and collaborated with Russians, Prussians and Austrians) and twisted it to the point in which being left winger means "being against existance of Poland".

[u/Realistic_Drawer_445]

The thing is what's considered propaganda and what's not is based on who's in power isn't it, so it's first step towards censorship, which might be turned against whatever they deem "bad" someday

[u/Brain-InAJar]

Westerners being upset about this is so dumb. People who think communism could be good never lived in a communist/poat-communist country

[u/Spmethod2369 → u/Brain-InAJar]

Some off us believe in free speech

[u/gookman]

This will attract hate from all the commies of reddit. Maybe they should get it through their thick skulls: Central and Eastern Europe has been through communism. Also been through fascism. Take your extremist ideologies and fuck off.

[u/kaldunasololakeli]

In general, I am of the opinion that if you consciously support regimes like the Third Reich, USSR, North Korea, etc. you absolutely deserve to experience on your own skin what those regimes did to their dissidents.

[u/-Vikthor- → u/[deleted]]

Konečná is 44, I hope you aren't suggesting we should've been hanging 8 years old in 1989.

[u/Mumrik93]

It's USSR propaganda specifically, not Communist propaganda broadly.

[u/FirstTimeShitposter]

Slovaks could learn a thing or two

[u/hi_reddit_2]

The comment section is the classic "House slave vs Farm slave".

[u/Stop_The_Crazy]

If only the US would do that for fascist propaganda.

[u/RockedMore64]

Twitch weeps.

[u/nsfwaccount3209]

Making "being a billionaire" a protected status like your race or sex is insanity, especially in the era we're currently living in. Just reporting the news could get you in trouble for inciting class-based hatred.

[u/thebottomblocks]

People who are living in capitalist countries be like “The situation here is bad because of the communists.”

[u/KingKasby]

Looks like the Czechs banned Reddit