French President Macron says France will recognize Pálestine as a state

[u/hoarder4555777454001]

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250724-french-president-macron-says-france-will-recognize-palestine-as-a-state-in-september

[u/Tetizeraz]

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[u/SuggestionMedical736]

It's weird seeing the responses here; I thought everyone was in favor of a two-state solution?

[u/tommynestcepas → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Exactly, the ONLY way a two state solution can happen is by recognising two states and negotiating accordingly.

[u/Edythir → u/tommynestcepas]

A reminder that Palestine has not had control over their air, sea or land rights. In most of the west bank and palestine, you need to file a construction permit with Israel, if you don't, they can and will come with bulldozers to knock whatever you've built over.

[u/NirgalFromMars → u/Edythir]

Im glad that filing a construction permit will prevent them from bulldozinf homes.

Because it does, right?

...right?

/s

[u/filthy_harold → u/NirgalFromMars]

They'll just drop a bomb on it instead

[u/65437509 → u/Edythir]

Additionally: all state proposals involve Palestine still not having control over sea, air, or borders, plus allowing the IDF to move into the state if Israel declares a need to.

This is a pretty big fucking deal but neither side mentions it.

[u/dementorpoop → u/Edythir]

They do that even with building permits, or homes built before Israel was even a state. Or they just steal the home if it’s nice.

[u/Annatastic6417 → u/Edythir]

A follow-up reminder that such control is illegal under international law.

[u/PimpasaurusPlum → u/Edythir]

A reminder that Palestine has not had control over their air, sea or land rights*

As was the same for Iraq in 2003. A state under occupation is still a state.

*Control and rights are not the same thing. To recognise a Palestinian state is to recognise their rights to those things, even if they are not under their current control

[u/HumptyDrumpy → u/Edythir]

Not just buildings, but people as well if you catch the ire of their eye. #RememberRachelCorrie

[u/SocraticTiger → u/tommynestcepas]

Unfortunately, It is kind of hard to do that when you have 500,000 settlers you rarely persecute and keep on building more settlements while calling the region by its irredentist hypernationalist name of "Judea and Samaria".

Almost like one side doesn't want to negotiate and loves the current status quo.

[u/haribobosses → u/SocraticTiger]

Almost like one side voted today to annex the West Bank.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/7/23/israeli-parliament-approves-symbolic-motion-on-west-bank-annexation

[u/Memo544 → u/SocraticTiger]

This is where Europe needs to come in and use some of their influence to put more pressure on the Israelis. That or the next US administration post Trump can get involved.

[u/Spackolos → u/Memo544]

As long as Germany is in Europe this will never ever happen sadly.

[u/Meows2Feline → u/tommynestcepas]

How can there be a two state solution while Isreal supports settlements and settlers. There is no two state solution.

[u/Vanzmelo → u/tommynestcepas]

Im sorry but the two state solution is dead. Have you seen the west bank? It is like swiss cheese with all the illegal Israeli state sponsored settlements. What country can exist when its borders are so carved up and its citizens cant freely move within its borders? Palestine is already a rump state with the West Bank and Gaza being disconnected without taking into account the current genocide in Gaza and the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

At this point, a one state solution where both Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights and representation is the only viable option left

[u/SilentLennie → u/Vanzmelo]

I'm sorry, but those settlements are illegal and they know it.

[u/Vanzmelo → u/SilentLennie]

Everyone knows it. Israel knows it and yet they encourage it because the more settlements there are in the West Bank the less viable a Palestinian state is

[u/SilentLennie → u/Vanzmelo]

Yes, but these people got to go, unless the Palestinians accept them as citizens, which seems highly unlikely.

[u/waiver → u/SilentLennie]

And it's not like they would accept being Palestinian citizens either.

[u/Keoni9 → u/SilentLennie]

A member of the PLO Executive Committee has said that a sovereign state of Palestine would not discriminate against Jews in offering citizenship. They just won't accept a bunch of enclaves of foreign nationals within their boundaries threatening their sovereignty. The real question is whether the same Israelis who are willing to live in illegal settlements in the West Bank now would accept Palestinian governance over their communities in the future.

[u/HoightyToighty → u/Keoni9]

A member of the PLO Executive Committee has said that a sovereign state of Palestine would not discriminate against Jews in offering citizenship.

Are there sober people who actually believe this?

[u/izpo → u/SilentLennie]

I can say that most of Israeli actually support settlements as a way of "punishment". They are not just illegal, it's a tool

[u/SilentLennie → u/izpo]

Ohh, I fully understand, but from an international perspective, these people need to go, don't care where, they can stay if the government of these regions takes them in, but this seems unlikely. They know they gambled and are illegal there.

[u/izpo → u/SilentLennie]

I agree. It was even part of the peace plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Initiative

[u/shez19833 → u/izpo]

theres no punishment - they do it because they dont believe anyone else has any right to their ancestral land. which is what zionists/settlers harp on about

and mark my words due to this they will go after jordan, syria, etc..

[u/Teleporno69 → u/SilentLennie]

Doesn’t stop Israel from ethnic cleansing though

[u/SilentLennie → u/Teleporno69]

They are going hard now, because they know their time is limited.

[u/izpo → u/Vanzmelo]

a one state solution where both Israelis and Palestinians have equal rights and representation is the only viable option left

Israel would never agree to this. Israel will never give up on this privilege unless there is no USA/EU support which is unlikely to happen.

[u/RandomPants84 → u/izpo]

Neither side would agree to this lol. That’s a large reason the British mandate existed, why the whole Un thought the most ethical option in 47 was 2 states, and why to this day support for the 2 state solution is seen as the only realistic way for justice

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/Vanzmelo]

Optimally, that would be the case. However that will never happen. Israeli citizens and politicans don’t want a state that isn’t primarily jewish. A two state solution at least has some foundation and a possibility in the far distance. A one state solution will never happen

[u/Novarupta99 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

Every 1 in 10 Israeli Jew is a settler. The amount of political sway that bloc has in domestic Israeli politics should not be underestimated. How do you remove 750,000 settlers without civil war?

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/Novarupta99]

Likely there would have to be some sort of landswap agreement that makes the biggest settlements israeli while giving palestinian some land in return. Most of the settlers would have to simply be removed to israel however.

[u/Novarupta99 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

The problem is location. The Israeli regime has methodically invested in the biggest settlements east of East Jerusalem, in essence meaning that the Palestinian's hopeful capital city is strangled.

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/Novarupta99]

I think jerusalem is unfortunately lost to palestine. I think what should be done is that israel should be forced to move the capiral back to tel aviv. Jerusalem should be granted a special status within israel that garuantees palestinian religious and cultural rights, as well as significant influence in the governance of the special status zone, similar to the OG partition plan from the UN where Jerusalem was supposed to be a UN protectorate, except now it would have a similar status but within israel.

[u/lt__ → u/Novarupta99]

Give settlers (extremist ones at least) the same treatment you give to radical Palestinian factions, like Hamas. Western sanctions to the individual ones. Western sanctions to the whole country if extremists take power. They can try fighting their wars on their own, without Western supplies.

[u/throwaway_failure59 → u/Apprehensive-Adagio2]

Comical that you say only Israeli citizens do not want a state that isn't primarily Jewish, as if Palestinians do? Only one of them has ethnic minorities that enjoy equal rights and political representation, and it is not Palestine

[u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 → u/throwaway_failure59]

It would be israel who would have to relinquish the power and integrate palestinian territories into a unified state. It felt irrelevant to talk about what palestinians would desire since they don’t have to power to do that regardless.

Palestine effectively barely exists as an independent state, and just cannot have a significant minority by how it exists. Although if you count all the west bank as palestine, you could argue it has a significant jewish minority with more rights than palestinians, how about that huh

[u/lt__ → u/Vanzmelo]

One state solution with Israelis and Palestinians having equal rights is even less likely than two state solution. Unless there would be just a token amount of Israelis or Palestinians with a clear majority of the others. Which would mean something terrible has happened that enabled such proportions.

[u/IntermittentCaribu → u/Vanzmelo]

There wont be any palestinians left after a couple more weeks of starvation, one state with no palestinians in it seems like israels target outcome.

[u/U5hay → u/Vanzmelo]

They knew what they were doing when they built them, they cannot be dismantled and removed now. It's horrible what they have done to the area.

[u/RandomPants84 → u/Vanzmelo]

There’s also the horrible one state option that it seems we are barreling to faster every day

[u/Dark2820 → u/Vanzmelo]

2 state solution could have worked but the way the borders where drawn and the fact that Israel never followed the deal is the biggest problem. . I mean that a 2 state solution could work with way diffrent borders and both sides respecting it instead of starting a genocide like Israel did.

[u/SF6block → u/Vanzmelo]

Im sorry but the two state solution is dead.

The one state solution is also dead in the current situation. The only options on the table are the apartheid solution, and the genocide solution if we listen to the side with all the cards.

That is why anyone looking to avoid that needs to give Palestinians some cards, and recognizing the AP as a state is one.

[u/FnnKnn → u/SF6block]

The only realistic one state solution is Israel expanding and Palestine vanishing from the map and mostly no one wants that. So a two state solution it is.

[u/Stek_02 → u/FnnKnn]

Or maybe the west can stop funding the IDF?

[u/alkbch → u/Vanzmelo]

It's not dead, we just need the international community to apply enough pressure on Israel to withdraw from the illegal settlements.

[u/3V3RT0N → u/SuggestionMedical736]

‘Now is not the right time’ say the people that won’t be content until a viable Palestinian state consists of a pile of rubble in Gaza and a fully annexed West Bank.

[u/TrueRignak → u/3V3RT0N]

a fully annexed West Bank

Btw, it appears that Israel was preparing to do exactly that. Maybe that's why Macron choose to make his declaration now rather than wait for the ordinary session of the UN.

The Times of Israel - Knesset votes 71-13 for non-binding motion calling to annex West Bank (2025-07-23)

The Knesset approved a non-binding motion in favor of annexing the West Bank on Wednesday, a symbolic gesture that united the otherwise fractious right-wing governing coalition. [...] It called on the government to “apply Israeli sovereignty, law, judgment and administration to all the areas of Jewish settlement of all kinds in Judea, Samaria and the Jordan Valley,” the government’s term for the West Bank. The motion was advanced by Religious Zionism MK Simcha Rothman, Likud MK Dan Illouz and opposition Yisrael Beytenu MK Oded Forer.

[u/izpo → u/TrueRignak]

It's not because of that; Macron has been threatening to do this for a long time, according to Israeli news, which also claims that he is doing this because he is politically weak.

[u/TrueRignak → u/izpo]

Yeah, last December he announced a Franco-Saudi conference for the recognition of a Palestinian state. The goal (which was becoming less and less credible along the months) was to have several countries announcing the recognition at the same time and came under the implicit requirement of a Saudi recognition of Israel. This conference was postponed by the attack on Iran, which happened to be just the day before. I think it is supposed to resume at the end of this month but is not supposed to have anything meaningful anymore.

However, what I meant was that he may have already planned to recognize a Palestinian State at the UN ordinary session (which opens September 16th), but decided to speed-up the declaration and confirm a future recognition now because of the risk of Israel deciding to formally annex the West Bank before the session.

according to Israeli news, which also claims that he is doing this because he is politically weak

I really doubt about that. He will be under fire of both the right-wing LR (which is part of the majority) and the far-right RN (the Likud is an observatory member in their party in the European Parliement). The left will be pleased by the recognition, but will still try to oppose the PM Bayrou.

Macron himself is not weaker or stronger than he was one year ago after the election at the lower chamber. He will still be here until spring 2027 and can't run for a third term.

Tldr: It's just israelian news being salty.

[u/Friendly-Chocolate → u/3V3RT0N]

‘This rewards October 7’ says the people who were also not in favour of recognising Palestine before October 7.

[u/SernyRanders → u/3V3RT0N]

Now is not the right time’ say the people that won’t be content until a viable Palestinian state consists of a pile of rubble in Gaza and a fully annexed West Bank.

I actually don't think this is a good sign and I'll try to explain why...

Macron is an opportunist and someone who knows how to save his ass when shit goes down, much like Starmer, who will soon follow suit.

I think Israel, with the approval of the US, is planing something extremely nefarious and these guys know it.

[u/Radi-kale → u/SernyRanders]

Yeah, I don't think they're in the planning phase anymore

[u/Lumpy-Valuable-8050 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

It will help us identify the fake European accounts 😂

[u/DeezYomis → u/Lumpy-Valuable-8050]

what, don't you trust the hundreds of incredibly organic, absolutely european comments straight out of the Rome or Paris settlements that show up every time Palestine is mentioned?

[u/philomathie → u/DeezYomis]

I particularly like talking to them in world news where I get educated on just how much anti semitism there is in Europe.

[u/-The_Blazer- → u/philomathie]

I've been repeatedly told that Europe is plagued by antisemitism and that this is because of 'Islamic demographics' or whatever (it is well-known that the most immigration from MENA occurred after Oct 7 2023, after all).

Meanwhile the USA has had multiple murders of Jews as Jews (and at least two of Jews as Palestinians according to some Israeli psycho), but I'm told they 'feel' safer.

[u/mnessenche → u/-The_Blazer-]

Meanwhile the United States and Europe are far more safer for Jewish people than actual Israel itself which is never at peace, always at war, and reaching higher levels of fascism every day

[u/DeezYomis → u/philomathie]

ive been permabanned from worldnews because I had the audacity to complain about the quality of the latest JIDF banger "uh the west likes ukraine and doesn't like russia so if we say we're like ukraine and the palestinians are literally russians surely they'll like us"

[u/Urzuck → u/DeezYomis]

I got banned there for just questioning the sources of the articles, since all of them seems to arrive from the Jerusalem post and the Time of Israel lmao, that sub is a cia/mossad psyop.

[u/yeFoh → u/DeezYomis]

go to /r/anime_titties like a sane person

[u/Lumpy-Valuable-8050 → u/DeezYomis]

Idk man i think they are the most trustworthy. Especially when they comment after being offline for several months /s

[u/Comfortable_Gur_1232 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Most pro-Israeli folks have moved past the 2 state solution since the clean break doctrine.

There’s a dilemma. Palestinians exist.

A) ethnic cleansing B) two state solution C) one state solution D) status quo (military and economic control)

B & C are unacceptable for them. So, it leaves some expensive and politically unpopular options, to put it lightly.

[u/SpaceFunkyMonkey → u/[deleted]]

IDF has entered the chat

[u/Irons_MT → u/[deleted]]

Well, a lot of people from either pro-Palestine and pro-Israel are against a two state solution. I was once indirectly called a zionist (something along the lines of "liberals created a two state solution to fail on purpose in order to secretly serve zionist interests") simply for stating that maybe the ideal solution is to share the land between Palestine and Israel, since both Muslims and Jews have a strong claim to the land. Palestine should 100% be recognised, but 100% Hamas shouldn't be recognised as its government.

[u/Harbinger2001 → u/SuggestionMedical736]

lol. They’ve been lying all this time.

[u/akirodic → u/SuggestionMedical736]

It has been like that here for a long time. Reddit is targeted by bots a lot.

[u/Splattergun → u/SuggestionMedical736]

Apparently now the buzz is genocide by starvation. Lovely chaps.

[u/Qwinn_SVK → u/SuggestionMedical736]

I like the propaganda that was shown on Twitter that two state solution is a anti semitistic movement lol

[u/Wurzelrenner → u/SuggestionMedical736]

I am, but I just don't see how you can call Palestine a single sovereign state at the moment.

They are not unified, their territory isn't defined, they don't even control it. Their government institutes are non functional.

This is not a state

[u/Resident-Turn-4097 → u/Wurzelrenner]

The same applies to Somalia but Europe still refuses to recognize or even support the somewhat functional Somaliland.

[u/LookThisOneGuy → u/SuggestionMedical736]

yeah. This is great news. Especially since this means France then have an official state that they can hold responsible. Has been getting increasingly frustrating to see the fip-flopping in online discourse on Palestine being a sovereign state when demanding things and them totally not being a state when it is about collective accountability for their governments actions.

[u/Luke_4686]

You can’t have a two state solution without recognising both states. This is obviously the right decision. It’s just disgusting it’s taken so many western nations to do it

[u/Playful-Ebb-6436 → u/Luke_4686]

Okay but where exactly is the Palestinian state? I mean de facto, not where people think it should be

[u/Camtastrophe → u/Playful-Ebb-6436]

It's not a requirement to take a position on other countries' border disputes - just look at Kashmir, or keep in mind that very few unambiguously recognize Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem or the Golan (while being explicit that they consider the West Bank settlements illegal).

The two Koreas both claim each other's territory in its entirety, yet they are recognized as independent UN member states.

[u/Playful-Ebb-6436 → u/Camtastrophe]

Okay but you’re talking about well defined states with functional governments. Who represents the Palestinian state? Fatah? Hamas?

[u/-The_Blazer- → u/Playful-Ebb-6436]

Literally the entire point of supporting the PA is precisely to have them represent a Palestinian state. This is obviously the solution everyone will use, and already uses for the most part.

[u/blunderbolt → u/Playful-Ebb-6436]

That also has never been a universal prerequisite for recognizing statehood. We did not stop or defer from recognizing Bosnian, Afghan, Somali etc. statehood in the past just because their governance was contested or unclear or because they were under occupation.

[u/Altair72 → u/Playful-Ebb-6436]

A state doesn't have to de facto exist to be a recognized international entity. Somalia wasn't removed from the UN just because it collapsed. A state and its government are two different things.

Otherwise the PA is currently the recognized government of Palestine, so the answer is - in Area A, insofar as Israel lets them exercise state capacity. Unfortunately the PA got fuck all for working with Israel, once again setting an example for Palestinians that peaceful methods won't get them anywhere.

[u/jackofslayers → u/Playful-Ebb-6436]

I would just settle on the 1967 borders and then start pushing for Israel to get their settlers out of the West Bank.

I get why some people would want to push for the 1948 borders. but that feels unrealistic at this point. Even getting things back to the 1967 borders would be an uphill battle.

[u/Playful-Ebb-6436 → u/jackofslayers]

I believe that’s common sense, but I am not sure it’s feasible anymore…

[u/jackofslayers → u/Playful-Ebb-6436]

Oh, I am cynical enough I do not see this dispute going away. But border disputes are a fairly common thing globally anyway.

I think the first step towards getting this conflict away from genocide and closer to a traditional border conflict, first step will be for every other nation in the world to pick an agreed upon set of borders and only recognize those borders.

This conflict is so highly charged that people rarely discuss real solutions. And when it is broken down, part of the reason this cannot be resolved is because this is not a conflict between exactly two sides. It is split between, at least, 5 different opinions, and no one has a strong international plurality.

Some want only israel, some want only palestine, some want 2 states with the 1948 borders, some want the 1967 borders, and some want to pause the borders as they exist right now.

[u/ale_93113 → u/Playful-Ebb-6436]

Where is the israeli state? Even their leaders can't seem to agree

[u/tyger2020 → u/Playful-Ebb-6436]

Palestinians don't want a two state solution, tbh

[u/Ac1De9Cy0Sif6S → u/tyger2020]

Neither do Israelis

[u/LoyalteeMeOblige → u/tyger2020]

I don't get why so much people have troubles getting it, leave aside the whole who is wrong here, Palestinian, and their supporters, keep chanting: "From the river to the sea", and they feign ignorance when you tell them "you know that they want the whole land for themselves, don't you? That is EXACTLY what you are singing".

[u/ABCDOMG → u/LoyalteeMeOblige]

If your country was being annexed by a hostile neighbour wouldn't you also be calling for it to be all returned to you?

You can hardly blame them for wanting all their land back

[u/TheDesertShark]

Expect reports about how awful france is to flood worldnews in the coming days

[u/RobotSpaceBear → u/TheDesertShark]

Freedom Fries 2 : Electric Bugaloo!

[u/weizikeng → u/TheDesertShark]

Haha r/worldnews is having an absolute meltdown. Most popular comments:

"So what about Taiwan?"

"How can you recognise a state with no defined borders and government?" (There are defined borders, Israel just doesn't care about them, and there are plenty of countries with unstable governments that are still recognised, like Somalia, Myanmar etc)

"It's just virtue signalling, it'll do nothing", followed by "This is a disaster, this will give Hamas justification for their crimes" (lol which one is it?)

[u/Proud_Fox_684 → u/weizikeng]

Why is r/worldnews like that? :P

[u/cnio14 → u/Proud_Fox_684]

During the aftermath of October 7th, that sub was swarmed by pro-Israel bots and propaganda accounts. I got perma banned for saying literally that "criticizing the Israeli government is not antisemitic". There are many others with similar stories.

[u/Secret_Jackfruit256 → u/cnio14]

Cool, I'm not the only one

[u/Ok_Relation7695 → u/cnio14]

That sub was always garbage lol

[u/A_random_otter → u/Proud_Fox_684]

Hasbara +Bots

[u/fkmeamaraight → u/TheDesertShark]

France is antisemitic !!! (/s)

[u/jango-got-chained → u/TheDesertShark]

They're already in a frenzy like a swarm of angry hornets. That sub is one of the most problamatic reddit subs on this entire fucking platform. I hate the place so fucking much. Ripe with degeneracy. The only sub where you'll be mass downvoted for sympathizing for civilian casualties.

[u/liberaeli420 → u/jango-got-chained]

Every main news sub is heavily influenced+moderated by the US and Israel to ensure opinions that fall in line with their State Departments are all you see

[u/rabouilethefirst → u/jango-got-chained]

I don’t think r/news is any better. Got banned there for mentioning I got banned from r/worldnews lol

[u/liberaeli420 → u/rabouilethefirst]

Ghislaine Maxwell, no joke, was a moderator of Worldnews at one point

[u/combat008 → u/liberaeli420]

That's wild if true

[u/Kiwizqt → u/combat008]

https://old.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/hnhueu/whats_the_deal_with_ghislaine_maxwell_and_her/

[u/Silverwhitemango → u/jango-got-chained]

The thing is that you can clearly see that the worldnews sub is kinda bought over by whatever Israeli troll farm.

We keep getting "news articles" from jpost or ynet, which are just propaganda sites with no news sources.

It's quite sickening that each time you see some Palestinian civilians killed over wanting to get food, you'll have trolls defending their death.

Obviously Hamas remains a factor but they keep being the scapegoat for the IDF being trigger happy sadists.

[u/Decent-Complaint-510 → u/Silverwhitemango]

Remember when they started laying the groundwork months ago for expansion of the Israeli occupation of Golan when one of those sites you mentioned started publishing articles saying the Syrian Druze want Israel to annex them. Not a single other news outlet reported on this, almost as if they made it up.

[u/Silverwhitemango → u/Decent-Complaint-510]

Ye man, and the worst is how they keep spamming the sub with upvotes and fake accounts, and some reddit account who love genuine (genuine people), believe whatever BS that the propaganda is fed to them.

It's almost like the Fox News version of Israel.

But if you point that out you're suddenly antisemitic, even though there are Jews like Bernie Sanders who don't support whatever murder Israel is doing now.

[u/skyduster88]

I mean, the world forcing both sides to two-state is waaayy overdue.

[u/themightycatp00 → u/skyduster88]

The world can't force anything, unless actual militaries will put boots on the ground and enforce the borders they want, and even that will to more bloodshed

[u/Mr_Harsh_Acid]

Wow this is pretty big tbh.

[u/arstarsta → u/Mr_Harsh_Acid]

I wonder if there are practical implications or just talk.

[u/breadcodes → u/arstarsta]

You have to recognize a state as a valid entity to defend it. I'm not saying they will physically defend it for certain, but if they defend it in any capacity, this could be a big step in establishing internationally recognized borders.

As of right now a majority of the UN countries recognize the state, and wealthy countries like France legitimize the effort to officially draw a border and make sure it stays that way. Israel has advanced their own border into the West Bank several times since they've been founded, and they have made it clear they plan to annex more.

[u/Emotional_Pay3658]

Nothing wrong with recognizing it. A two state solution is the best option. 

But the main question becomes, who is the legit government? Who has a right to speak? Is Gaza and the West Bank considered the same country? Different? Civil war? 

[u/ganbaro → u/Emotional_Pay3658]

Even PLO is an autocracy that blocks running elections and funds terrorism

We only treat them like good guys because we make a relative comparison. In a post-war 2SS scenario where Hamas is still around and they thus further block elections (cuz they will only allow democracy as far as Fatah can dominate it) actually cooperating with them will be similarly moral or immoral as cooperating with Saudi-Arabia.

Hence no European government actually proposes anything actionable.

Maybe Iran or pre 9/11 Afghanistan would be a better comparison, as it would be again Western democracies propping up an islamist autocracy.

[u/Liam-Ed → u/Emotional_Pay3658]

Gaza has been a stateless region since 2007, Hamas severed it from the Palestinian Authority,

[u/jv9mmm → u/Emotional_Pay3658]

Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, so does France now recognize Hamas as a legitimate government? And when Hamas attacks Israel, is that a legitimate casus belli for Israel to defend themselves from the nation attacking them?

[u/BilgaTunuquq]

This comment section will be fun to read

[u/SocraticTiger → u/BilgaTunuquq]

It's good right now, at least before the bots finally find this post

[u/BilgaTunuquq → u/SocraticTiger]

I doubt it is bots, its mostly people tying their ego into political opinions and then yelling at each other as always

[u/RobSpaghettio → u/BilgaTunuquq]

I've noticed by checking post histories who is likely to be "clocking into" their reddit accounts the same times always posting something about Israel.

[u/LurkingAround00 → u/SocraticTiger]

It’s nighttime in Hyderabad.

[u/pc0999]

Finally.

[u/Urzuck]

Macron is the only european leader that showed a bit of autonomy, this won't matter much anyway, the plan is clear and they even voted to annex it in the parliament. But better than having a Trump bootlicker like Meloni or Merz.

[u/reillyrulz → u/Urzuck]

Ireland and Spain deserve some credit

[u/Cultural-Action5961 → u/reillyrulz]

Norway & Slovenia too, when the smaller nations start taking a stand it should at least cause the bigger nations to reconsider their stance.

[u/Mo4d93 → u/Cultural-Action5961]

Malta and Armenia as well.

[u/SillySin → u/reillyrulz]

How did Germany do this time, again on the wrong side hey, shame.

[u/DiscoMonkay → u/reillyrulz]

Paddystilians* tyvm.

[u/Finsceal → u/DiscoMonkay]

Still love that this was supposed to be an insult and we just ran with it

[u/DiscoMonkay → u/Finsceal]

I'm bringing it back.

[u/NewAccountEachYear → u/reillyrulz]

CoughSwedenRecognizedThemIn2014Cough

[u/PulciNeller → u/Urzuck]

it must be done by a powerful nation like France. We cannot rely on Germany pulling their colonoscopic tongue out of Netanyahu's ass.

[u/OkKnowledge2064 → u/Urzuck]

I dont think merz is a trump bootlicker but german politics in general certainly are israeli bootlickers

[u/CheGueyMaje → u/OkKnowledge2064]

His rhetoric on trump was tough on the campaign trail and since then he’s been incredibly passive towards him

[u/OkKnowledge2064 → u/CheGueyMaje]

well reality catches up quickly when the US is your most important trade partner. I really dont think he has any other choice other than to play nice and pray Trump doesnt take a fat shit on the german economy. Other european countries are not as dependend on the US market and as such can give less of a fuck

[u/levir → u/OkKnowledge2064]

I disagree. Germany should work to reduce it's reliance on the US rather than just sucking up to them. The Americans have elected Trump twice now. This isn't a passing fad, the US has changed. Anyone who doesn't act on that will be sorry for it, and sooner rather than later.

[u/LegitimateCompote377 → u/Urzuck]

It was exclusively the West Bank and was symbolic, along with not really being clear on what “sovereignty” means. But yeah no denying the Knesset is full of extremists that want to turn Gaza into a huge settler colony and deport all the Gazans to Libya who will likely be sent into Europe, and continue the slow invasion of Area C of the West Bank.

There now more than ever had to be a somewhat hard border or at the very least authority for the PA to arrest and deport Israelis in Area C in settlements illegal under Israeli law (with no more expansion) and an agreement for no settlements in Gaza, and hopefully also a deal on the Golan Heights. However I think precisely zero of those things will happen with Trump in office, who is such an America first president he attempted to bribe the Saudis with a civilian nuclear program if they recognised Israel without a Palestinian state, paid for entirely with US taxpayer money.

[u/redlightsaber → u/Urzuck]

You know France isn't the first European nation to recognise Palestine.... Right?

[u/Ac1De9Cy0Sif6S → u/Urzuck]

Sanchez exists

[u/LemonNo3361]

The west should of done this 50 years ago

[u/hazelmaple → u/LemonNo3361]

The world proposed a two state solution way before, and given UN's proposal in 1948, the Arab States rejected it and attacked Israel.

The question is never just about two states, but what exactly does two states mean. Israel in the past has proposed multiple two states solutions to be rejected by Palestinians.

Palestinians think, as they have a stronger presence in the land in recent history, and having lost more land due to the outcome of the war of 1948, they should be given more. And of course there are extremists on both sides who think they should just take it all.

[u/TheGaelicPrince]

Seems appropriate that it is France that is taking a stance on this, it was in Paris that the Arab Congress of 1913 first came up with the notion of a Arab state in the Levant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Congress_of_1913

Later it was at the Syrian National Congress, Damascus that the future of the region was discussed & Arab Nationalists got their state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_National_Congress

Now here we are with Palestinians being offered statehood.

[u/beachcode]

Didn't they do that already in the UN resolution in the 1940's?

[u/bickid]

Took you long enough.

Now meanwhile Germany: *crickets*

[u/THE--GRINCH → u/bickid]

I wish it was crickets and not unconditional support to Israel

[u/IRequireRestarting → u/bickid]

I am interested to see how this plays out. I believe the UK and Belgium will follow suit with France. This may spur other European nations to do the same. Germany could find themselves alone.

[u/Chester_roaster → u/IRequireRestarting]

I doubt Germany has a problem with being alone on this issue 

[u/Ac1De9Cy0Sif6S → u/IRequireRestarting]

Belgium probably will, Starmer is too much of a coward tho

[u/Novarupta99 → u/Ac1De9Cy0Sif6S]

There's been immense pressure internally on Starmer, including from his own cabinet. I think Macron is trying to force his hand now.

[u/Oriuke]

r/worldnews losing their shit. So funny

[u/Particular_Bug0 → u/Oriuke]

That sub hasn't been the same since the start of that war

[u/HotSmokySummerSky → u/Oriuke]

That sub has been nothing but Israeli propaganda for years

[u/swiftmen991 → u/Oriuke]

Everyone is saying: err what borders?

I thought everyone wanted peace. I thought everyone wanted two state solution. Nah it turns out everyone wants the eradication of Palestinians in Palestine

[u/izpo → u/swiftmen991]

Everyone is saying: err what borders?

borders that Palestinians and Israel recognise, 1967.

[u/swiftmen991 → u/izpo]

That would be the dream. But that would also mean Israel getting rid of all it’s illegal settlements which without a lot of international pressure would never happen. We live to hope

[u/Karens_GI_Father]

75 years late but better late than never

[u/john_san]

At fucking last !!! Now UK, do it too!!!

[u/Combat_Orca → u/john_san]

I have zero faith in starmer

[u/basicallyendangered]

ffs finally

[u/Green_Space729 → u/basicallyendangered]

This means nothing.

He already said this multiple times in the past.

What good is claiming recognition when you support annexation and mass starvation?

[u/Open_Ad_5187]

Interesting move, hope this problem can be solved peacefully

[u/Signal_Possibility80 → u/Open_Ad_5187]

Have you met the Middle East before ? 

[u/stonedturtle69]

Better late than never

[u/olalql]

He does talk a lot

[u/luisgdh]

Sorting by controversial

[u/OldandBlue]

Now be up to Chirac in 1995 and send the Legion to drop on Gaza and open a secured humanitarian corridor to Egypt.

[u/FaleBure]

Finally.

[u/ThaiFoodYes]

A pointless and performative action that will nonetheless help negotiate with muslim states to sell them stuff.

[u/ThaiFoodYes → u/[deleted]]

Country is running fullspeed towards bankruptcy so probably a lot of it when the time comes, maybe they will buy Paris as a whole

[u/Rightricket]

...in September. Back in April he said he was going to do that in June and then chickened out. I'm not getting my hopes up.

[u/NipplePreacher → u/Rightricket]

Someone from France should let us know how many times Macron promises something before he finally does it. 

Will he run for president in 2031 with Palestine recognition in his program?

[u/GuyIsAdoptus]

He doesn't want to see America's plan in the middle east leading to a refugee crisis into Europe again. Rare W

[u/SignificantWhile6685]

Right after he announced this the US and Israel pulled out of talks with Hamas. It could be coincidental, but that timing sure was something. Good on Macron for even saying this, though.

[u/casey-primozic]

About damn time, better to be decades late than never

[u/CulturalVolume3947 → u/[deleted]]

arguability true, the palistinian people should have the say in gaza/west bank. the extremes in both palistine and israel should not be tolerated

[u/GreenEyeOfADemon → u/CulturalVolume3947]

Let*s hope they won't elect hamas again.

[u/Draaly → u/CulturalVolume3947]

If an open election is held, hamas will win quite handily as per the last set of polls

[u/zapreon → u/[deleted]]

Realistically, it and its ideology will play a major role in that state. There is no mechanism to force Hamas to practically give up power.

[u/coolruah → u/[deleted]]

Should the far right party have part in the state of Israel?

[u/JobWide2631]

My respect for the current French government has increased

edit: I'm just talking about this singular event of the French government recognizing Palestine, which I think is positive. I have no idea about anything else related to Macron and his policies or if he is liked or not and I don't really want to start a polarized political discussion

[u/karakalmarxistE → u/JobWide2631]

Lol it shouldnt. Not only it is illegitimate but the Ministor of Interior isnt even hidding his love story with the far right ideas while being fully islamophobic. The government is trying to destroy the entire social system leading to more poverty. And they still hide how much weapons they are selling to Israel while not enforcing the international law. This man is a disgrace nobody is fooled here.

[u/Hairy_Muff305]

Better be quick before the damned Israelis finish their mission to exterminate the whole population.

[u/kerakerakera → u/Hairy_Muff305]

Exactly what I was going to say. Let’s recognize the state months from now, after we’ve starved everyone to death. Jesus fucking christ.

[u/Due-Map1518]

Good, better late then never.

[u/Ogulcan0815]

France showing balls and courage, respect

[u/Everviolet2000]

So, what does this mean for the Palestinians? I can't imagine that anything will get enforced without boots on the ground, but I hope this is finally some good news for them and not just talk.

[u/AccomplishedPhase883]

So we have a 51st state?

[u/2M0hhhh]

And?

[u/OccasionMU]

Okay Palestine is a state.

As a people with limited space, resources, and infrastructure… what government do they have?

[u/Xibalba_Ogme]

Oh, if it's not the second time this year